Federal Officials: At Least 32 Dead After Virginia Tech University Shooting

Originally posted by infinite
I would be HIGHLY surprised if America now doesn't adopt tougher gun laws.

In the United Kingdom, in 2005/2006 50 people were killed by gun violence. It fell from a third, 78 to 50.

This doesn't have as much to do with gun control as it does with violence in general. The best I could tell there were 765 murders total in UK in 2005/2006 ... in the US that figure was 16,000+ murders in 2004, around 10,500 were firearms related.

Even countering for the 60mil UK populations vs 300mil US population there's a higher level of violence in play here.

If we take away the 10,500 firearm related murders that still leaves approx 6,000 murders ... at the UK rate it should be 3,825 ... we are way above in the # of murders.

The point is that it's not the guns where the blame lays. They are the method used and not the underlying cause.

Man this is a long and quick thread. I too am baffled at the accuracy of the shooter today. I am an alumnus of soon to be 10 years. ABCnews.com has a breaking news headline that police believe there was a second shooter. I don't trust all of the reports just yet until I see a press conference. I remember Cooper Anderson reporting they got all of the trapped miners, per local source, only to find out later only one was rescued.

I can see where one could escape out of WAJ (dormitory) as it is next to a road and there and many stairwells. Usually there are 2 people to a room in the dorms and at 7:15AM, I hate to say, but not many people are up so potentially less people to target.

Possibly the two hours would explain getting chains and more ammo? The classrooms would make easy shots, but as stated before just too accurate and to reload or even combat reload someone might have had a chance at the shooter.

As for military training there is a Corp of Cadets at the school, only other one besides Texas A&M and the various service academies and private military colleges.

Norris hall is an interesting choice unless there was an intended target. Unfortunately I have not been in that particular hall, I had classes all around it with plenty of large class rooms. There is a big steep auditorium in there as well based on a fellow alums' recollection. Except for the road behind it, not much access. Also the bomb scares seem to be lining up response times in my opinion.

Mainly just numb from all of this. I am fortunate those I know there that are undergrads from my fraternity are all safe. I am still up hoping some new news will fill in the gaps: 2 shooters, shooters id, or background, etc.

On a positive note it is great to see the state and other students across the commonwealth sending their condolences and such. One example is the following cartoon:

According to the students themselves he did not just line them up. Im one romm he went to he just walked up to everyone and shot them. They were prob so stunned/scarrred that they didnt react, but some did jump out of windows and played dead

Originally posted by Shar
Blitz,

I read that. However, what is a drudgereport? Is it gossip? A newsarticle? A blog? What is it, can you tell me?

I guess its bits and pieces of information that has been drudged up, to make some plausible explination. No matter if its true or not it is information, and its something the media has not said.

[edit on 16-4-2007 by Blitz]

There are so many different reports on this story i dont know what to think. This all sounds very "fishy".........

Shooter may have been from china and was wearing a bulletproof vest. Also weapons recovered from both scenes had serial numbers filed off indicating they were obtained illegally. If thats true maybe people will stop talking about gun control and start asking more serious questions like why incidents like these didnt happen 100 yrs ago......

Our country is falling apart and it is our governments doing

[edit on 4/16/2007 by Frank Black]

Originally posted by Street Scholar
As for the Alex Jones article, i have read his articles and only take them with a grain of salt, this just proves to me again how much fiction is thrown into his work. There are no loudspeakers installed around campus as he claims. In fact, the only way students and faculty WERE warned was by e-mail and phone lines. I truly doubt the whole character "Matt Kazee."

I have no problem questioning the official story as I don't think things quite add up either, but adding bits of fiction to adhere to his ideas discredits anything he says to people like me.

I can attest to this point. There are no loud speakers. An auto-call and mass e-mail (to the vt.edu boxes only) system sent out a benign message saying that there was a shooting at A-J earlier and that an investigation was underway. I do not think there is a massive plot going on here, just a idiot VT admin trying to CYA. Many might not know this but the next two weeks are the "decision weeks" for high school grads. Wanna guess what next years enrollment numbers are going to be like for VT. This whole thing is a shame....Roanoke/Christiansburg/Blacksburg are really pretty pieces of God's country. Except that POS VA traffic control section of I-81...that’s a freaking racket if I ever saw one. Just happenstance that the VA highway patrol has their HQ right by there???

Wow, I'm surprised to see so much wild speculation, false accusations, uninformed comments, and hijacking (well maybe not hijacking), all in one thread.

Jeeze, I say show a little respect, ponder the innocents and their families, be thankful you're a detached viewer,

and most of all -
Give some time for at least, some, of the facts to roll in before, sentencing some poor shlub to a Blog full of death threats.

My .02

For those of you who think it would be impossible for this guy as a normal man to shoot and kill all these people. Fact most 9 mm have a 15 round capacity. Fact a semi auto .22 could easily have the same. That make a minimum of 30 rounds before he even has to reload the first time. If both were semi-automatic weapons that means he could shot both as quick as he could pull the trigger. It does not take very long to drop a clip out of a gun and slap another one in it. He could easily go through 6 clips in 2-3 minutes which would be about 90 rounds.
As for accuracy, I personally used to shoot sticks out of the air while my friend would throw them over my shoulder from behind me. It was a safe way to hone our hand eye coordination skills with the pistol. I could even quick draw and still hit them.
That coupled with the fact that they probably didn't have much cover in this class room and it probably was quite confined; these poor people did not stand a chance.
So it does not take a trained professional to do what was done there. Anyone that has spent time with guns even as a hobby could probably do the same. Some of you think that this could have only been doen by some trained military assassin or even a team of people. I know lots of poeple who theoretically "could" probably do it, I just don't know anyone that "would".

The shooter was Chinese and did not attend the school. sorry if you guys already know this! but thats the info i got from everybody at Tech, i was down there from friday till Monday morning at 4 a.m, actually barely missing the whole situation. Was relieved to find that the people i knew were unharmed and most of them still in bed . In my idea, thats a pretty high death tole for one person to rack up, i got too many questions about this case. this is a sad day in Earth's history ...

My condolences to the victim's families, I know they're also looking for answers.

Originally posted by Frank Black
There are so many different reports on this story i dont know what to think. This all sounds very "fishy".........

There is no story yet. So how can it be fishy? What's fishy??
The next fews days will be a period of weeding out the rumors and false reports. It may be a day or two before we really get a good understanding of all that's happened.

If thats true maybe people will stop talking about gun control and start asking more serious questions like why incidents like these didnt happen 100 yrs ago......

Our country is falling apart and it is our governments doing

Unfortunately stuff like this did happen in the past.
Remember the Bath School disaster?
en.wikipedia.org...
The government is not God. It cannot control everyone's actions.
Or maybe I read it wrong. What exactly are you saying? Are you saying it's the government's doing, in that they're not doing enough? Well if they do more, then people will (rightfully so) start protesting the government's infringements on our freedoms.

I know some people don't want to believe this but, people can and do kill other people without the government's help.....

Another report about the shooter. For what its worth.

According to mostly but not entirely confirmed rumors available to The Reference Frame, the killer was a 6-foot tall male East Asian student from Radford University (where they just canceled a celebration), who was 24 years old. Let me call him Mr. Cho (a fake name because it is a Korean, not Chinese name). He has received his visa in Shanghai before he arrived on August 7th and his girlfriend from Virginia Tech dumped him two weeks ago.

Thirty-five days ago, he purchased two guns - one 9 mm caliber handgun (probably Glock 19) and one .22 caliber pistol (probably Walther P-22) - and he wore a vest or a black leather jacket - probably a bulletproof vest - with too much ammunition in it as well as a maroon cap. Tape showing how he is buying the guns exists: if you believe my newest sources, these tapes are stored exactly for thirty-five days

A better question would seem to be; if two people had been murdered at 7 am why were the police not conducting a massive man hunt in the area as they normally would. And why did they not tell everyone to stay in and keep their doors locked when there was a armed murderer on the loose. Many times these situations end with the suspect taking hostages and trhe police know this. Not long ago, in NC, a high school and several elementatry schools were locked down by police merely because of an escaped convict, and that ended up being a false alarm. The point is, the authorities typically don't just ignor sitautions like these just for this very reason.

There are going to be lots of law suits.

Mod Edit: Quoting Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by sanctum]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Frank Black
There are so many different reports on this story i dont know what to think. This all sounds very "fishy".........

There is no story yet. So how can it be fishy? What's fishy??
The next fews days will be a period of weeding out the rumors and false reports. It may be a day or two before we really get a good understanding of all that's happened.

If thats true maybe people will stop talking about gun control and start asking more serious questions like why incidents like these didnt happen 100 yrs ago......

Our country is falling apart and it is our governments doing

Unfortunately stuff like this did happen in the past.
Remember the Bath School disaster?
en.wikipedia.org...
The government is not God. It cannot control everyone's actions.
Or maybe I read it wrong. What exactly are you saying? Are you saying it's the government's doing, in that they're not doing enough? Well if they do more, then people will (rightfully so) start protesting the government's infringements on our freedoms.

I know some people don't want to believe this but, people can and do kill other people without the government's help.....

First off i said 100yrs ago which would make it 1907 not 1927

Secondly what i meant by "our country is falling apart and it is our govts doing" is that whether and incident like this is a "lone shooter" or part of some conspiracy, our govts corruption has no boundaries.

Isnt it odd that this type of incident plays right into the agendas of the "NWO" and that incidents like this seem to occur more and more frequently?

Uhhh yea lets see...... give this new generation of kids riddlin or some other psychotropic drugs and make sure theyre are as many broken families as possible and then give them guns and see what happens.........get my drift?


[edit on 4/17/2007 by Frank Black]

ok im not saying anymore about this......There is so much confusion on this i think it may be a conspiracy to take away more rights. I will have a moment of silence to myself for those that died and thier families and go stock up on guns and ammo just in case i lose my right to buy weapons

"There is no story yet. So how can it be fishy? What's fishy??
The next fews days will be a period of weeding out the rumors and false reports. It may be a day or two before we really get a good understanding of all that's happened."

And allow time for false reports and yellow journalism to be inserted into the mass media..




[edit on 17-4-2007 by MystikMushroom]

Blitz,

Thanks for telling me. That clears some things up.

First and foremost: my deepest sympathies to the departed, their familes, and their friends.

Originally posted by grover
Well I am glad you are so macho to think carrying a gun makes you safe. It doesn't.

Not intending to infer that I know your life experiences, but to convey my own: actually having another human being put a gun in your face will change your perspective on not having one.

While nothing totally makes a person safe, you must admit that there are quite a few situations in which having a gun most definitely makes you safer, if nothing else. It's not about being macho, it's about keeping an even playing field.

/tn.


[edit on 17-4-2007 by teleonaut]

Why didn't they shut the damn univ down after the first incident??!!!!
All those innocent lives!!!
My thoughts go to the families of the deceased..
my god....
It brings back horrible memories of columbine!!!
How does one stop this?!!!!

Originally posted by lonewolf37
For those of you who think it would be impossible for this guy as a normal man to shoot and kill all these people. Fact most 9 mm have a 15 round capacity. Fact a semi auto .22 could easily have the same. That make a minimum of 30 rounds before he even has to reload the first time. If both were semi-automatic weapons that means he could shot both as quick as he could pull the trigger. It does not take very long to drop a clip out of a gun and slap another one in it. He could easily go through 6 clips in 2-3 minutes which would be about 90 rounds.
As for accuracy, I personally used to shoot sticks out of the air while my friend would throw them over my shoulder from behind me. It was a safe way to hone our hand eye coordination skills with the pistol. I could even quick draw and still hit them.
That coupled with the fact that they probably didn't have much cover in this class room and it probably was quite confined; these poor people did not stand a chance.
So it does not take a trained professional to do what was done there. Anyone that has spent time with guns even as a hobby could probably do the same. Some of you think that this could have only been doen by some trained military assassin or even a team of people. I know lots of poeple who theoretically "could" probably do it, I just don't know anyone that "would".

Lonewolf I understand what your saying, It does not take a trained professional to know how to shoot accurately.

No offense to you, but there is a big difference between being able to shoot at a target accurately, and being able to shoot a person, while still having the ability to physically and mentally shoot the weapon accurately.

I have been shooting pretty much my whole life, So I know where your coming from. Im sure you have been deer hunting before, Its similar to that even though you know how to shoot and hold the rifle steady. It is so much harder to hold the weapon steady when aiming at the deer.