I thought the US was the land of the free.

Originally posted by Iblis
Your 'sheeple' comments, and that quip about 'some jew' point out the quality of your own arguments, Selfless. I'm not debating you -- This isn't personal

Well that proved to me that it is indeed personal for you because you see, i never once even said the word jew in any of my posts....

That really shows me what your intentions are towards me.

And by the way you just continue to not show any logic towards the situation, you asked me to show you why i said what i said about you and i did but yet you have nothing to defend it which means it's true and you know it.

Originally posted by Iblis
I'm simply hear, telling the readers your stance is wrong, and explaining why. Personal attacks are entirely rude and without merit in this discussion.

Further, your personal feeling about Iraq does not affect its status, certainly not the entire status associated with it. Your 'political views' do not define a war.
In the end, I won't be able to dissuade you. You're as much a 'sheeple' as your claimed 'victims'. You're simply unable to believe anything but extra-ordinary fact. I simply hope those that read your views, and -opinions-, and the entirety of this argument think otherwise.

You did no such thing, you were unable to prove that i was wrong with what i said, you simply say over and over again that i am wrong with out even discussing the subject...


My personal feelings about Iraq are the truth, don't you know what is going on in Iraq????? It's not exactly for the good of the Iraqi people now is it? and the result is much, much worst then the 911 incident..

You say: ''My political views do not define a war'' Are you blind? I am not a political person but i am not blind and i can see when a WAR is going on.... Do you need the government to tell you it's not a war for you to think it's not???? what if they nuked Iran and they told you it's not a war, you would believe that????? Learn to think for your self man or you are really a sheeple like they say.

You are right, you are not going to be able to dissuade me because i know that I'm right and you are just blinded by a americanized biased comfy couch perception, there is no waking you up.

You say: ''You're simply unable to believe anything but extra-ordinary fact.''

Are you kidding me????? it's not exactly a secret what is going on in Iraq right now, the whole world knows, it's not extra ordinary fact it's extra murderous and corporate domination fact.

You say: ''I simply hope those that read your views, and -opinions-, and the entirety of this argument think otherwise.''

I sure hope not, for the sake of this world and if there is any chance for it to become peaceful......



[edit on 16-4-2007 by selfless]

I have the INALIENABLE RIGHT to PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE!!! I don't need a FREAKING permit to be on PUBLIC PROPERTY exercising my 1ST AMMENDMENT RIGHTS of free speech!? Those puppets on here that have taken the bait - hook, line and sinker - need to reevaluate what FREEDOM means.

Now, if you are organizing a rally with hundreds or thousands of people where law enforcement or safety services may need to be present, then a permit is a reasonable request. However, when the need for a"Permit" is used to stifle an individual's right to peaceably assemble and exercise their first ammendment rights, I have a HUGE freaking problem with that! Without fail the jack botted brown-shirts come rushing in to trample on that individual's rights. And sadly - the Police contributed!

Get ready people, this is a vision of your future. No rights, no freedoms, no Habeas Corpus. The jackboots will be the police, the judge, the jury and executioner. You will be told what to think, how to act and what to do and if you dare defy - you will be "Disappeared" or suffer some inexplicable "Accident." The sheeple have asked for it; the sheeple will get it.

My mistake -- The first half of my post was directed towards 'In Nothing We Trust', and I failed to edit that out. --You're correct, my apologies for the 'Jew' bit.

And, actually, I still made those several points awhile back. Sans permit, etc. Etc.
So, no.
It is not true.
And I know nothing but my own logic.
Who else do you have hear supporting you?
People with their personal feelings, and those with no concept of the law.
That speaks volumes.

I never said you were 'wrong', totally. Your arguments were never true arguments to begin with. I worked to debate your erroneous views, though to little affect seeing as you'll still support them to your dying breath. Pity.

"don't you know what is going on" is not an argument. And no, it was never intended to be for the betterment of the Iraqi's, that was simply a tag-line. Like a movie. 'In doing all of this, we also make the Iraqi's better off!' Which would be, nearly inarguably, true, had the Iranian-fed insurgency not cropped up. It's hard to give people back water, electricity, shelter, when it's being sabotaged all day.

...I never argued there wasn't a war going on. The government has, for a long while now, declared we are in a 'War on Terror'; encompassing the Iraqi conflict. Are you aware what you're saying? Not only does that argument not apply to our discussion, but it doesn't work anyway.

"blinded by a americanized biased comfy couch perception"
Wonderful argument there.
I see there's no immature bias in you at all.

Kozmo, this is true. However, your rights are given to you, and protected by the government. However, abuse of those rights, such as infringing on the emotional nerve-center of a nation for some 'conspiracy theory' calls for consequences. This is much the same as freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want here. But you'll have to deal with what happens.
After all, am I allowed to go up to an African American and yell racial epitaphs all day simply because it's my freedom? No. There are limits. Sane, reasonable, legal limits.

Just because you think an argument works, doesn't mean it does, and doesn't mean it should be allowed to circumvent the law.

Citizens have been arguing 'big brother' theories since the birth of modern Europe. And yet, after all these years of nothing happening, it still continues..

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Last I saw on the matter some jew was handing out money to the survivors.

Why does it have to be some Jew? Maybe I should start referring to all the Christians who irritate me as some Christian, like that Christian Barak Obama. Or even some Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Buddhist, Scientologist etc. What relevance does it have?

Originally posted by Iblis
Your 'sheeple' comments, and that quip about 'some jew' point out the quality of your own arguments

Just stating the facts.

Kenneth R. Feinberg was in charge of dispursing the 9/11 survivors fund of 2001.

Some jews are christian, maybe Mr Feinberg is?

"What Is Life Worth?: The Unprecedented Effort to Compensate the Victims of 9/11"

www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-9542622-2067856?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176790549&sr=8-1

So they've opened pandoras box.

Let's see them pay the survivors of the 9/11 cleanup crews next.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Iblis,

Maybe some day you will realize what is going on...

But for now stay in bliss i guess.

Peace and love to you.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

WTF?

You think you gotta get a permit to make your voice heard?

You're fuc*in nuts.

Do you think were playing around here?

This isn't a damn game. Our survival is at stake.

You can shove your permit up your as*

[edit on 14-4-2007 by In nothing we trust]

This was totally out of line.
We can disagree without resorting to name calling and personal attacks. I'm not the enemy.

I'm not "nuts". I'm careful. Big difference. As I said earlier my mind is not closed to the 9/11 conspiracy. In fact I'm convinced some elements of it are most likely true. I do believe that WTC7 was brought down by planted explosive charges. I think they were installed in the building to protect sensitive files belonging to the CIA and the Justice Department. I think they told the Fire Fighters to evacuate four hours prior to make sure nobody was inside when they pushed the button. I think the reason for this was to keep those documents from being looted and falling into the wrong hands. As far as the Towers go I think we were told the truth. I'm still open to new information on that one though.

Regarding the real topic of this thread I think well organized and thought out protest is much more effective than mindless confrontational protest. You can't force people to come over to your side and sidestepping the law is wrong minded and will drive away the people you are trying to attract. I understand the emotion that leads to that though. People are scared when they find out that most of what the government does is out of our control. That type of protest attracts an undesirable element that takes away credibility and leads to anarchy and lawlessness.

The real way to exact change is to get good people into positions of power. The problem is the process corrupts them. Power is an addictive, destructive drug that destroys most who wield it. Freedom is a delicate balancing act. If any one mindset gets to much control for too long it self destructs. Everybody, including me, thinks they have the right answer and what we truly want is for everyone else to agree with us. That is why decisions are made by a consensus rather than dictated by an individual.

Wisdom comes with realizing that you can not "beat the system". You can however learn to use the system to your advantage. Those who learn to use it succeed. Those who keep trying to beat it fail. Occasionally someone like Hitler or Stalin succeeds for a short period of time but we all know where that leads.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

WTF?

You think you gotta get a permit to make your voice heard?

You're fuc*in nuts.

Do you think were playing around here?

This isn't a damn game. Our survival is at stake.

You can shove your permit up your as*

[edit on 14-4-2007 by In nothing we trust]

This was totally out of line.

We can disagree without resorting to name calling and personal attacks. I'm not the enemy.

I'm not "nuts". I'm careful. Big difference. As I said earlier my mind is not closed to the 9/11 conspiracy. In fact I'm convinced some elements of it are most likely true. I do believe that WTC7 was brought down by planted explosive charges. I think they were installed in the building to protect sensitive files belonging to the CIA and the Justice Department. I think they told the Fire Fighters to evacuate four hours prior to make sure nobody was inside when they pushed the button. I think the reason for this was to keep those documents from being looted and falling into the wrong hands. As far as the Towers go I think we were told the truth. I'm still open to new information on that one though.

Regarding the real topic of this thread I think well organized and thought out protest is much more effective than mindless confrontational protest. You can't force people to come over to your side and sidestepping the law is wrong minded and will drive away the people you are trying to attract. I understand the emotion that leads to that though. People are scared when they find out that most of what the government does is out of our control. That type of protest attracts an undesirable element that takes away credibility and leads to anarchy and lawlessness.

The real way to exact change is to get good people into positions of power. The problem is the process corrupts them. Power is an addictive, destructive drug that destroys most who wield it. Freedom is a delicate balancing act. If any one mindset gets to much control for too long it self destructs. Everybody, including me, thinks they have the right answer and what we truly want is for everyone else to agree with us. That is why decisions are made by a consensus rather than dictated by an individual.

Wisdom comes with realizing that you can not "beat the system". You can however learn to use the system to your advantage. Those who learn to use it succeed. Those who keep trying to beat it fail. Occasionally someone like Hitler or Stalin succeeds for a short period of time but we all know where that leads.

A well thought out post Blaine.

Sometimes I get a little passionate about my beliefs, sorry.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

A well thought out post Blaine.

Sometimes I get a little passionate about my beliefs, sorry.

No problem here Your worried and I understand.

With all the comments here supporting the lies of 9/11 and the government tyrannical approach of the how to destroy the constitution, i'm pretty sure that considering the size of ATS, there's a bunch of people paid by the government here on this board to support those fascists ideas. Well here's my message to you traitors: You'll end up in jail like your bosses.

I thought the US was the land of the free.

Check the treatment those guys received on NYC for trying to express their opinions.
Its really getting close to real fascism.
I never thought I would watch something like this from the US.
Any other country in the world yes but not the US

This not fascism. This is a group of people deliberately going out to provoke others in a city where this an extremely emotional subject. Just as these guys have a right to their opinion, so others have a right to disagree with them.
I don't see anyone getting assaulted, shot, beaten or anything else.
And if you are going to do this KNOWING what an emotional subject it is, then you really have to expect some sort of backlash.

Fascism???
Read some history and find out what fascism really is.

Originally posted by budski
Just as these guys have a right to their opinion, so others have a right to disagree with them.

While that may be true,

they don't have the right to accuse him of having a bomb and they don't have the right to stop them from carrying a banner around.

They don't have the right to call the police on them just for being outside doing nothing wrong.

Yes, they have the right to disagree but no they don't have the right to stop them.

Originally posted by selfless
they don't have the right to accuse him of having a bomb and they don't have the right to stop them from carrying a banner around.

They don't have the right to call the police on them just for being outside doing nothing wrong.

Mafia tactics.

The 2 previous posts are quite true, but I feel they don't take into account the emotions involved, which were obviously running quite high. High enough that the original OP referred to them as fascists - a wholly unwarranted and heinous accusation.

As for mafia tactics?
They would simply have made them an offer they couldn't refuse.....

Originally posted by budski
As for mafia tactics?
They would simply have made them an offer they couldn't refuse.....

You guys keep asking questions about 9/11 and you might just be, 'sleepin with da fishes tonight'.

[edit on 20-4-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Last I saw on the matter some jew was handing out money to the survivors.

Why does it have to be some Jew? Maybe I should start referring to all the Christians who irritate me as some Christian, like that Christian Barak Obama. Or even some Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Buddhist, Scientologist etc. What relevance does it have?

Originally posted by Iblis
Your 'sheeple' comments, and that quip about 'some jew' point out the quality of your own arguments

Just stating the facts.

Kenneth R. Feinberg was in charge of dispursing the 9/11 survivors fund of 2001.

Some jews are christian, maybe Mr Feinberg is?

"What Is Life Worth?: The Unprecedented Effort to Compensate the Victims of 9/11"

www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-9542622-2067856?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176790549&sr=8-1

So they've opened pandoras box.

Let's see them pay the survivors of the 9/11 cleanup crews next.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Even if he is or isn't Jewish its not really relevant. I could state all kinds of silly things while dragging their ethnicity or religion into and it would mean nothing. If he was a Jewish fundamentalist it might have some relevance, but I honestly would be surprised if he even practiced any form of Judaism.

I would sound a bit stupid if I referred to the President as some Christian and Barak Obama as some Christian. They are fundamentally two different kinds of people. Saying some Jew boils down to irrelevance, disrespect, and assumption.

This country hasn't been free for a very long time. I know it's sad.

Originally posted by billorly
This country hasn't been free for a very long time. I know it's sad.

There is no real freedom. We are all bound by different constraints, whether they are social, religious, political or whatever.
Since societies first started to form, we have not had freedom in any real sense of the word. To think otherwise is to deny history.