Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Just read Micheal’s last post.

Question withdrawns.

But I did find pics of the garbage lids. (from the weddingcake UFO)







nail in the coffin...?



From this site. (good article, probably an ATSer)

Originally posted by Gazrok
I may have missed it, but I don't recall seeing an explanation for the 5-fingered aliens in the photos, vs. the 6-fingered handprint on the car that was so lauded....

You did miss it. MH addressed it directly. The prints on the car were a different kind of alien, which had 6 fingers. (and flew on trash bin covers. )


[edit on 21/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Off--topic, Relax WhiteWash, your post lasted awhile and I read it -- in amazement. Should Above Top Secret decide to make a contest re the best Member avatar -- up and including now, yours has my vote.

Dallas

Originally posted by SuicideVirus

or accused the questioners of being ignorant and not having enough faith.

Hello SuicideVirus and thank you for your thoughtful post.

I saw where one of the Billy Meiers defenders accused the questioners about being ignorant and addressed that.

But I missed where the Billy Meiers defenders accused the questioners of not having 'enough faith' would you be so kind as to post that exact quote? Thanks.

Thanks Dallas
I just want to make it clear however(if you didn't know) that I edited the post myself, not staff. The reason I edited it is, I came to the realization that it would be pointless. It will never change. On both fronts. We can all argue in here until the ends of eternity, and there will always be those who believe some/all/part of this story to be fake, and there will always be those who believe. So this entire thing is irrelevant and useless to me at any rate. As far as how certain people act around here, I doubt that will ever change either.
Peace

Originally posted by WhiteWash
Thanks Dallas

I just want to make it clear however(if you didn't know) that I edited the post myself, not staff. The reason I edited it is, I came to the realization that it would be pointless. It will never change. On both fronts. We can all argue in here until the ends of eternity, and there will always be those who believe some/all/part of this story to be fake, and there will always be those who believe. So this entire thing is irrelevant and useless to me at any rate. As far as how certain people act around here, I doubt that will ever change either.
Peace

WhiteWash, you display pretty much a defeatist attitude i.e. 'pointless', 'never change' 'irrelevent', 'ever change' etc. It seems as if you are discouraged.

Well CHEER UP!

I always say, "Its not whether or win or lose its how much you stir the pot that counts!"

What you need to understand here is that there are many people that truly want to believe that the Billy Meiers story is a hoax. The story threatens their sense of well-being, their sense of order and possibly their religion. So its important for you to keep pointing out the shortcomings in the Billy Meiers story because many people are depending on you. And they ae probably not impressed with the defeatist attitude you displayed in the above post.

Try to come out every day with your sword swinging ready to slay those Bill Meiers stories.

On the other hand there are those who would like to believe the Billy Meiers story. So as a defender of the Bill Meiers story my task is a little bit easier than yours because I have the truth on my side. And the truth is that Billy Meiers was visited by extraterrestrials who let him take some pictures of their craft, took him for a flight, showed him a ray gun and a few other things. Unfortunately for Billy they did this so they could stimulate human consciousness, not prove their existence. So as a result every little piece of tantilizing evidence can usually be refuted.

In this way it gives the disbelievers hope that the story is not true. And it stimulates the consciouness of those who suspect that we are not the only ones in the universe.

Sharpen that sword, gird yourself for battle and come out swingin'!!!!!

www.emediawire.com...

www.theyfly.com...

www.tjresearch.info...

www.gaiaguys.net...&460,1.htm



Think.

Originally posted by Michael12
www.tjresearch.info...

Thanks for the link MH. I will definitely check out the Contact Notes. I’m, especially intrigued by #115 which seems very interesting.

Additional information from the 115th Contact was accidentally given to lead investigator Col. Wendelle Stevens, USAF (Ret.), and shown by him to Maj. Rudolph Pestalozzi, USAF (Ret.) and Mr O. Richard Norton, former director of the Flandreau Planetarium, Tucson, Arizona.
Witnessed by the three men, the information was secured until after the following specific, predicted events occurred:
• Jonestown massacre (Nov 18, 1978)
• Overthrow of the Shah of Iran (Jan 1979)
• Chinese invasion of North Vietnam (Feb–Mar 1979)
• Iran Hostage Crisis (Nov 1979–Jan 1981)
• Soviet invasion of Afghanistan (Dec 1979)
• Terrorist attack on Iranian Embassy, London (Apr–May 1980)
• Abdication of Queen Juliana of The Netherlands (Apr 1980)
• Death of Tito of Yugoslavia (May 4, 1980)
• Mount St Helens eruption (May 18, 1980)
• Assassination of Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi (Oct 31, 1984).

Source: www.theyfly.com...

I’ll also look into Vogel's patents.

Thanks.

EDIT: If the tree in this picture is indeed genuine, then the object cannot be a trash bin cover because it would be way too small.

[edit on 21/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Very Well John.
What YOU need to understand is that I used to believe in meier's story long ago until I saw such obvious fabrications as the ray gun pics, the wedding cake pics/video, the dinosaur foolishness, etc. Also understand that I, in point of fact DO believe in extraterrestrial life and Their craft/Technology. Nothing in the Meier case threatens Anything in my belief system, my sense of order, nor my sense of well being. I think that if it were true, it would be a fabulous story.
However, the obvious fabrications and trickery involved are as plain as the nose
on your face. In addition I doubt anyone needs me to champion them in debunking such obvious foolishness as the "evidence" in question. In truth, YOU and others like you, need me. YOU need people like me so that you can keep spouting your agenda. Of course you are worried. You need people like me. Without such, you would only babble incoherantly into the ears of the foolish whom you have already swayed.
Let us refresh things.
When anyone questions this material, or anything else you so strongly wish us to believe that you believe in, you immediately jump upon that person and
use sickening sarcasm to attempt to belittle them in any way possible. When you are asked to prove your points, you will not do so. You get vague, or do not answer, or you simply do the former which I have said and say some sarcastic comment without substance. You see, I know what you are doing and what you are about. If you wish to play Machiavellian head games Mr. Lear, I'm your Huckleberry. Just remember. You asked for it. I will gladly be the Omega to your Alpha or vice versa. You wish an Antagonist? The Yin to Your Yang? I will be happy to oblige you.
Let us start with your statement of earlier in the thread in which you state that ALL rayguns have red tips. that it is a heat sink. You said this with Such conviction you believe it to be true, so you must have evidence to support this. Prove this Please.
I eagerly await your response.

Originally posted by WhiteWash
In truth, YOU and others like you, need me. YOU need people like me so that you can keep spouting your agenda. Of course you are worried. You need people like me. Without such, you would only babble incoherantly into the ears of the foolish whom you have already swayed.

That's the spirit WhiteWash!!! Welcome back!!!

That's the spirit WhiteWash!!! Welcome back!!!

(Mr. Lear you are a true gentleman)

Whitewash You are Great! And I must admit I am of the very same thoughts as you on the subject of belief. I too am a believer. It is just the details which cause me restlessness on this issue. And, I haven't even seen the dinosaur stuff you mentioned yet! But I can relate. My first impression was: (no way you have to be kidding me). However as usual first impressions are never guarauntees. I find all this COULD be true.....I just need more information.

-P.S. If anyone has links to the Dinosaur stuff it would be appreciated.

Originally posted by theutahbigfoothunter
-P.S. If anyone has links to the Dinosaur stuff it would be appreciated.

It’s buried at the bottom of page 2 of this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 21/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Here is some information from the 78th Contact, July 6, 1977, when Meier was loaned a laser-type weapon for the second time. I am not going to reproduce the lengthy conversation but just give the key info that he was told about certain aspects of the weapon:

Aiming accomplished through optical enlargement system
Pinpoint accuracy up to 37.2 kilometers
Can totally dissolve an object leaving no ash
The two round boxes on top of the gun contained two separate elements
When combined generate a laser beam said to be unknown on earth at the time
Certain type of radiation would destroy film if present when laser used
More advanced, newer versions were 1/3 the size. activated mentally, tuned to the owner

Stevens has photos of the unique damage to the tree branches, etc. in Vol. 3 of MESSAGE FROM THE PLEIADES. Included is a close-up of the hole through the tree - which is slightly oval as well as smooth as glass/b] inside from the immense, instantaneous burst of heat from the laser. So the guy with the auger can show, I'm sure, how easy it is to bore an oval hole - that is also smooth as glass.

When I was originally researching the info, the two-element type of laser was indeed only in the very earliest stages of development. But of course I'm sure that the skeptics at ATS knew all about such laser developments, certainly as much as our one-armed farmer friend in 1976-77.

The chemical oxygen-iodine laser was first demonstrated in 1977. ... One new cut was made through aluminum with a nitrogen gas assist, Table . ...

scitation.aip.org...

www.de.afrl.af.mil...


COntact 115 also has the info on Jupiter that Meier published [bbefore "official" discovery.

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by SuicideVirus

or accused the questioners of being ignorant and not having enough faith.

But I missed where the Billy Meiers defenders accused the questioners of not having 'enough faith' would you be so kind as to post that exact quote? Thanks.

I'm not sure if there is an exact quote anywhere. I never said there was. But there have been many clear implications that past a certain point in the investigation (the point where the testimonial evidence and the physical evidence peter out, apparently) the only correct course of action is to simply accept the stories without further questions.

In other other words, to have faith -- not necessarily religious faith, although Meier insists on blurring the line there, too, with his claim of possessing a "Q" gospel and being the reincarnation of various Biblical prophets.

I guess I'm just the kind of guy who likes people who claim to be telling truthful stories I'm interested in to back them up with some kind of verifiable evidence. It's not really a lot to ask for, is it?

Like you and your secret U.S. space force with bases on the Moon and various other planets. That's a cool story. If it was told by Ben Bova, I wouldn't ask for such things as, oh, a clear, verifiable photo of one of the ships, or even a copy of a memo or transmission from any of the people involved. Because he wouldn't be claiming it as true.

After all, it takes a lot of communication to make something as complicated as a space program work. And a lot of people and money, too. Billions of dollars and tens of thousands of people. It's difficult to imagine that there isn't at least ONE leaked communication from over the past year that I could see that would prove the whole thing as true.

Nobody's security is that good. Ask the people who already have DVD copies of "Spider-Man 3" in their computers.

So you, like the Billy Meier supporters, heard a cool story you want to believe from somebody you generally trust, so you go along with it -- on faith. Which is fine. One nice thing about our brains is that we can pretty much choose what to believe or not.

I, personally, don't have that much faith, mostly because I've seen myself and other very smart people be completely wrong about way too many things. I've seen magicians make things disappear right before my eyes. So how am I supposed to believe a guy in Switzerland about some spacemen who vanish equally (and conveniently) well?

[edit on 21-4-2007 by SuicideVirus]

Originally posted by Michael12
COntact 115 also has the info on Jupiter that Meier published [bbefore "official" discovery.

I found this, but where can I find the actual text of the 115th contact?

Originally posted by SuicideVirus

I'm not sure if there is an exact quote anywhere. I never said there was.

Suicide Virus this is your exact quote:

Then I'm afraid you haven't been reading closely. The defenders of the photos have frequently been asked to provide good, positive proof of their claims, and have consistently either refused, referred the questioners to dubious websites or prejudiced documentation of limited value, or accused the questioners of being ignorant and not having enough faith.

You say here "....or accused the questioners of of not having enough faith".

Now I respectfully request that you own up to posting something that was not true or in lieu of that stating that what you posted was not what you meant.

Trying to put words into the mouths of Billy Meiers supporters is not going to cut it.

We all make mistakes and when we do its best to cut our losses, make the apology, and get it over with. Thanks.

Originally posted by theutahbigfoothunter
I find all this COULD be true.....I just need more information.

I agree that it would be cool if it were true. But just because I want it to be true doesn't make it true. Not even one little bit. It would be cool if there were jelly bean trees and we all flew jet packs to work.

You sound like somebody looking for evidence to back up your feeling that it could be true. My advice is to look at the evidence without expecting it to prove anything true or false, one way or another. You will eventually get to a point (maybe after 25 years or so, like me), when you have accumulated enough evidence it HAS to go one way or another. True or false.

At that point, you can "decide." You can say it's true, and here are all the reasons why, or you can say it's false, and here are all those other reasons.

But you don't have to decide forever, then fight to the death to defend that decision. You can always leave the door open for any new evidence.

I personally think Meier is a con artist and a fraud with bad photos and a weak story recycled from old contactees like Adamski and Fry and Bethurum. That being said, if Semjaza lands a beamship in Central Park for all to see for a year or so, and personally addresses the U.N. on worldwide TV, then I'll gladly admit I was wrong. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.

So, yes, go look for more information. But be sure to look at all the skeptical stuff as well as the stuff that supports the stories. Weigh the value of the information, along with the sources.

And if you find something that is just so solid and undeniable that you MUST accept the story as true, let us know about it. But don't get all huffy if we point out something you might not have considered, or where you might be mistaken.

After all, nobody can prove a negative, because there's no way to know all of the possibilities. So we can't logically prove everything Meier claims is hogwash. It's up to the person making the claim of truth to provide evidence we can all agree on to prove it's true.

Good luck! It would be incredibly cool if you could prove me wrong!

[edit on 21-4-2007 by SuicideVirus]

Originally posted by Michael12

Certain type of radiation would destroy film if present when laser used

That sure is convenient.


Too bad the weapon isn't around anymore.

And why do these "plejarans" need weapons anyway?

During the 215th contact on February 28, 1987, Quetzal told Billy Meier what the Plejarans wanted for the Earth humans
www.theyfly.com...

The first note is:

For the earth humans, we wish that they, in all love and reason, tend toward bringing an end to all aggression, acts of violence and wars, as well as all criminality, all hate, all discord, every bondage as well as any craving for vengeance and retaliation.

So why do they need weapons? Do they need a weapon that cuts down trees over 30 km's away?

Perhaps the aliens are hypocrites...preaching love and non-aggression to humans while practicing the opposite themselves.

That barrel on the Meier ray-gun does not seem to be pointing straight ahead. It's tilted upward a bit. I am wondering that such a weapon might possess a barrel that can adjust itself into different angles depending on the position and movement of a target. In other words, it isn't necessary for the shooter to have perfect aim...it is only necessary to point the gun in the general direction of a target and the barrel zeroes in on the target automatically. An almost intelligent ray-gun.

[edit on 21-4-2007 by SkyWay]

Originally posted by Dulcimer
So why do they need weapons? Do they need a weapon that cuts down trees over 30 km's away?

Dulcimer I think it would be safe to assume that no matter how highly advanced a particular society there is always a need for offensive/defensive weapons. This is the main flaw in any supposed 'gun control' law, "the notion that if there are no guns there will be no crime." (Yeah, I know that is stupid but some people really believe that.)

As earthlings we consider threats to us that can be contained with a hand gun in terms of several feet or several yards away.

Its probable that entities from lights years away and thousands or hundreds of thousands of years advanced from us might need protection to distances of over 30 kilometers (19 miles) away because of their advancement in technology.

But I think your questions are legitimate for people that are having trouble grasping the concept of beings more advanced than us.

Why the heck do aliens need weapons?

Actually while we are at it why do we?

Now don't get me wrong I hope and Pray I never have to use a gun in a horrible situation. In fact I am an avid hunter of tranquility and serenity. However, if I did have to protect myself, those I love, and my way of life, I would want the biggest baddest tree-slicing machine I could get my hands on. One that could slice arms off. (BTW does anyone know how Mr. meier lost his arm?) Regardless the point at hand is security. What good is life without security? Security = stability = peace.

Any advanced species will have obviously found this to be the case, especially when dealing with species from other planets as is implied. If these aliens are travelers of time and space as is alleged, they would be intelligent.

Therefore, I think any peaceful entity would have interested in a guarantee of tranquility. Thus weaponry of some sort.

Arms dealers have interplanetary job security.