Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

while my comment was removed, the line wasn't an attack on anyone, rather I was making a comparison that Mr. Lear was not happy with. He said so and within seconds I removed the offending line.

the whole post wasn't even directed at Lear.

Er, does anyone really think it's necessary to respond to someone who actually throws the "you're paid to" line up when I clearly wrote the following:

"And since the 'you make money from this' thing comes up sooner or later, first, I do all my work, writing, radio shows, correpsondence, travel, research, representing the case, producing the DVDs, film, at my own expense voluntarily...as in FREE, gratis, etc. If people buy the products, or hire me to lectuer, I make money, Certainly no one here has a problem with that."

This is why there's no point in arguing, especially with people who have fewer skills in research and investigation than they do in being provocative.

If I had used such a heavy-handed, accusatory tone in researching the Meier case I would have learned what a number of these critics have...nothing.

Moving on, for the more scholarly among you, here's a small sample of the info contained in the Contact Notes and corroborated AFTER Meier had published:

Contact 115 - October 19, 1978 A Space Voyage To Jupiter

Meier: Io most volcanically active body in solar system

Corroborated: March 12, 1979, JPL announces most important discovery of Voyager mission…Io most volcanically active body in solar system

Meier to Semjase: “…The rest, you explained, would be pushed out into space, while a part of it is drawn by Jupiter and very slowly densifies in its ring to a heavy sulfur-ion-combination. Is that correct?"

Corroborated: Science, Vol. 207, Jan. 11, 1980, p. 181-183

Images of the ring of singly ionized sulfur encircling Jupiter, obtained
on two successive nights in April 1979, show that the ring characteristics may change dramatically in about 24 hr. On the first night the ring was narrow and confined to the magnetic equator inside Io's orbit. On the second night it was confined symmetrically about the centrifugal symmetry surface and showed considerable radial structure, including a 'fan' extending to Io's orbit. Many of the differences in the ring on the two nights can be explained in terms of differences in sulfur plasma temperature.

The Contact Notes contain an abundance of specific, prophetically accurate information on a wide variety of topics - all far beyond Meier's educational level (as well as probably most of us).

It is in the Contact Notes that the greatest amount of information, and the purpose for the contacts, can be discovered.

Think about it. More later.

MH
www.theyfly.com

Ray gun pictures... what a (...) joke.

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Mod edit - vulgar language
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[edit on 19/4/07 by masqua]

I'm surprised nobody has asked the question....where in the h*ll can you buy the gold tin foil body suites at?

Any fabric store...and a jumpsuit can be stitched together by an amateur seamstress/tailor. As I've been involved in numerous plays, etc., looks like a gold lamee' fabric, and is fairly common (usually for dresses) at places like Joanne's fabrics, etc. (at least here in the south), or even larger Walmarts that have a fabric department. We've used a similar fabric for the "Transylvanians" takeover scene for a Rocky Horror production, and for "Rocky's" signature gold briefs.

I may have missed it, but I don't recall seeing an explanation for the 5-fingered aliens in the photos, vs. the 6-fingered handprint on the car that was so lauded....

Also, there's the Asket and Nera hoax. Are we still sticking by the Swiss MIB photo switch story?

Then, there's the time-travel "photos", which have been shown pretty conclusively (even on this thread) to have come from published artwork.

It's simply too many strikes for one to even think of taking seriously...and we haven't even gotten to some of the ridiculous "missing ball bearing" wedding cake UFO photos....which even the most ardent defenders have trouble swallowing....

As for Mr. Lear's comments that some of the detractors may not have done their research, perhaps that's true, but a search here of my posts on the Meier case surely reflect the research. And why not? If true, it's a completely amazing case...but there is simply WAY too much evidence of deliberate trickery to even begin to take this case seriously....(in my own opinion of course).

Unlike Mr. Horn (who has been as eloquent and gracious as always), I do not have an agenda nor a cash cow to protect. I'm a "skeptical believer", and I've seen enough evidence to decide for myself that we're being visited. I absolutely hate seeing a UFO case debunked, but I'm also a logical thinker and educated man, and if the evidence points towards something else, so be it. In the Meier case, there's simply too much evidence of trickery, and that's that.....


[edit on 19-4-2007 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Michael12
This is why there's no point in arguing, especially with people who have fewer skills in research and investigation than they do in being provocative.

So to sum up, anyone who views the evidence from both sides and sees trickery is unskilled at research and anyone who was a vested interest in the trickery should be believed at face value because, well, all those strange coincidences of women in Meier's photos and the tv and catalogue images is nothing more than that, coincidence.

yeah, that's the ticket.

Originally posted by MichaelMyers
Ray gun pictures... what a #ing joke.

Thanks for the post MichaelMyers.

I think ATS discourages one line posts but I'm pretty sure that with the vocabulary you used you must have put a great deal of thought into it. I think they will make an exception. Thanks again!

Mr Lear my respect for you grows at quite an amazing rate every time i read one of your posts. I can not say i beleive everything you say as maybe i dont have the information you are perhaps able to access. However just know this you are indeed a verbal gentelman.

The Meier case is a weird one that I don't really know what to make of.
I really don't know what there is to be so upset about (there are some ferocious attacks on the man), in general I don't buy into much of the "disinfo" talk, I have a mind of my own and I'll draw my own conclusions.

Can anyone, without the shadow of a doubt say that ain't a ray-gun? No. Does it seem likely to me? No. Same goes for the dino. Are there other pictures and items of info interesting that are harder to dismiss? Yes.

Could some items stem from "UFO sickness" (the need to make you believe so some items are falsified)? Possibly. Could it have been "placed" or could it be real? Possibly.

Can I therefore completely throw the whole case aside? No. Can you? Sure, that's up to you.

Meier doesn't seem like a money hungry false prophet in the few interviews I've seen him in. He seems like an old man with one arm patiently telling his story and answering questions. That goes for some other individuals claiming to have been "selected" as well (minus old, one armed). To me it's just interesting tidbits that tickle my mind, eventually with enough information provided I'll draw conclusions.. haven't come to one about this and other similar cases.

I like to keep an open mind, after all I just crawled out of the caves (along with the rest of you).



[edit on 19-4-2007 by lasse]

To all those out there who believe everything and anything that a source may says, does, or produces, I have this to say to you.

An expert/source can be wrong, they can get some parts right and other parts wrong. To believe everything that someone produces as the truth without consideration that it cannot be anything but the truth, is more about faith then reasoning.

If you worship and have total faith in something or someone, there is no reason to suspect that anything maybe wrong from that source.

Can Billy Meier, George Bush, The bible, Albert Einstein, etc. etc. be wrong in some way? Yes.

Do not blindly follow anything or anyone without questioning or reasoning.

Just a little of what has been given:

www.theyfly.com...

“But just as intriguing was our search for a gold Mylar jacket that might look like the one Alena is wearing in the picture with her arm holding the gun. We looked in all the clothing stores, all the sporting good stores, and even checked the uniform supply stores for such a jacket, or even such gold material as might be necessary to make such a jacket, like the arm of the one worn by Alena as she holds the pistol for Meier’s photographs. We never found anything like it.

“Then there is the problem of the hole in the tree. The tree was a good 10” to 12” in diameter, and the tree was green and full of sap. How would a man with one arm bore such a hole? An auger bit would have been impossible because it would surely bind in a hole that long in a living tree. How would Meier hold it? How would he turn it? Where would he get an auger bit 12” long by 1” in diameter, a non-standard size that would have to be special ordered and made up by a tool maker? This would leave tracks that could be later traced. And the hole in the tree had to be made in 20 minutes or less and all equipment removed and hidden, never to be discovered again in that short time available.

“Jacobus came on the scene with Meier crouched at the tree examining the still smoking hole that had been burned cleanly through the center of the big tree trunk. The charring was superficial but clear through the tree and out the other side. Then the hole in the tree, which a man could insert his thumb into, was not completely round inside, but somewhat oval in some places, like the hole made by pouring hot water into a snow bank. And the charring through light and penetrating into the wood no more than 1/4” or less, was uniform throughout, including the front entrance and the rear exit from the trunk. And the dark soil behind the tree, in line-of-sight through the hole, was still smoking and fused. I am not taking anybody else’s word for this because I was there a short time later and personally examined all for myself."


www.theyfly.com...

www.theyfly.com...

www.theyfly.com...

www.figu.org...

www.theyfly.com...

www.gaiaguys.net...

"The first question is always this, is the Meier case authentic or is it a hoax?"

"The second question, for me, is, if the case is indeed authentic...what does it mean to us?"

"One of the things that they told me is that the heaviest surveillance began after Marcel Vogel revealed that he found rare earth elements, like Thulium, in the metal samples. Since this was/is an expensive, and at the time even more rare, element with various properties and applications of interest militarily, Meier was taken far more seriously, since the idea that UFO could be faked was also held by the intelligence people (probably until the CIA took their own photo of one of the craft above Meier's place!).

"Anyway, with Vogel's honest assessment that HE couldn't put the alloy sample together himself, due also to the micro-machining and the probable manufacture through cold fusion, various parties suddenly took the case quite seriously. It is also said that certain superconductors came out of IBM about a year after Vogel's analysis."

"I personally showed the photos and films to the special effects company that won the Academy Award for Independence Day. I showed them one film segment and told them that the skeptics (at CFI-West/IIG) had said that it was a model with pin scratching to produce the TWO lights that alternately flash in broad daylight from the ship.

They literally laughed out loud and said that they, "...know models and that's not a model!" When I asked them if they could duplicate the films they said, "If we could duplicate them, we'd have to go to CGI to do it."

Originally posted by lasse
Can anyone, without the shadow of a doubt say that ain't a ray-gun? No.

Yes, without a shadow of a doubt, that ain't a ray-gun.

Now....prove its a ray-gun. Anybody?

I can be that sure because the Billy Meier case has enough ridiculous, stupid stuff that everything else is immediately tainted with the stink.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by MrPenny]

For those who are interested, you can pick up the rest of the info I posted here - to which virtually no one has actually made any in depth, relevant responses - continuing on page 4.

It would bear no fruit for me to continue to post here, as even simple requests for a critic to duplicate the photographic evidence, heck, even the gold foil suit, are not only ignored but the same silly attacks are made again and again!

While I thank you all for the opportunity, I must in all honesty say, as I have before, that I find more heat than light on most "UFO forums", this one being no exception.

So, being a proponent of the popular adage, "Doing the same thing over and over only guarantees getting the same results", I will leave the debate, having provided more than enough clues as to how and where to discover if the case is indeed true and, if so, what it means to each of us.

Should anyone want to et to the core of the case, then I suggest a careful reading of:

www.gaiaguys.net...

www.theyfly.com...

www.theyfly.com...

This will help you to understand not only why my personal goal is trying to prevent the fulfillment of certain prophecies but also why - in light of the characteristic know-it-all belligerence of many Americans (and others) - it simply may be too late.

Of course, you could continue to argue about the dinosaur photos...

MH
www.theyfly.com

Originally posted by Michael12
“Then there is the problem of the hole in the tree. The tree was a good 10” to 12” in diameter, and the tree was green and full of sap. How would a man with one arm bore such a hole?

There's a technical term for why these kind of arguments are bogus. The last sentence I quoted is a perfect example. Well, he would bore it like a one-armed man, that's how. You are aware, aren't you, that people with NO arms can, and have been, driving vehicles? How many people you suppose have one arm, through accident or genetic mistake? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? I think you insult every one of them when you throw that ridiculous argument out.

If you've spent any time in industry, the idea of an auger bit long enough to pierce a 12" tree isn't particularly odd. I have some time, a little cash, a video camera, and a boatload of trees. I think I may just bore a hole in a living oak tree just to see how difficult it may be.

Very well, I'll bite.
Going back to the topic of the OP, about the ray gun. I'll try to keep an open mind and let us suppose for a second that it is not a toy/mockup and that it might be a "raygun" of some type. Can anyone with some expertise in electronics and science tell me the way in which this Specific gun operates? From the pictures I see what appears to be some sort of roundish cannister upon the top of the gun and also what is either a "hose" coming out of it or is that a brace of some type? What is it's power source? Please explain to us the details in as much technical terminology as possible. I know that such devices are possible, the debate is whether or not This one in particular is in fact fake or an actual weapon of some sort. Since we do not have access to the weapon itself, nor any data other than the photographs let us examine what we DO have. The pictures. Anyone? Mr. Horn? Mr. Lear? I hate to "assume" anything, we all know that makes an ass|u|me as my English professor would say, but I will assume (for fun) Mr. Lear or perhaps Mr. Horn could enlighten us?
John have you in your experiences with the CIA or other adventures had any chance to see a beam or particle weapon operate insofar as this supposed gun would operate? I am truly curious. I love strange science and would love an explanation on this device in question.
Thanks in advance.

The pics are labelled Laser Gun. Without an admission of fakery or producing the Laser Gun for scientific analysis, for me it stands with Meire UFO pics, the same as video and pics do from other reports as well as the report itself..

I think it safe to say what's being held is not a balloon. There are many reports of individuals becoming temporarily without muscle control after an encounter with a craft and being hit in the arm or hand with what is described as as Green Pencil Thin Laser, pointed from a being. Which afterward left a welt or blister.

Dallas

I have gone thorugh 3 years of college for electronics engineering and had done some in high school as well. Since I was 7, that was my hobby, now however its mechanics, lasers and high power discharges. I have made lasers that can pop holes in razor blades when focused. I even had the chance to buy a pharos III laser for $300 as well.

This laser ray gun's main body is a plastic machine gun with a yellow strobe lens on the top and some plastic tube glued to the stub of the barrel. The tube you see goes some distance beyond the handle of the gun, why would any one put a pointy bit directed back at the user? It also looks like there are zinc plated bolts in the top body of the gun in the second pic on the first page of this thread.

Why would they feel the need to make a gun with a barrel thats angled upwards? Why would any one (or alien) put red plastic around a beam so powerful that it would ionize air and casue it to turn to high temperature plasma that it would melt the plastic? That would be like making an engine out of lead.

Optical faces do not like dust and do have an optical power/energy density rating. This gun is too small for the energy density claimed unless they found new elements to make the optics out of. Is there ANY spec's on this gun other then what it did or could do?

I saw a "ray gun" used once on a short film about the abduction of the McPherson family. The ray gun that was used by one of the grays in that film looked more like a ray "wand" than anything else. It appeared to be just a long thin wand about a foot long.

When the alien used it on one of the people that were watching them, the ray "wand" let out a very bright beam that struck him on the hand and put him in alot of pain. He kept complaining about the pain afterward. Before the guy was "zapped" by the laser wand, the alien had been using it on a cow that had been immobilized somehow and was lying on the ground. I think the aliens were in the process of mutilating the cow when they were spotted by the McPherson brothers.

The point is that the ray gun or wand that the grays used was a very simple appearing device...nothing like the ray gun in the Meier photos. It may be that the different groups of aliens use different types of weapons just as they seem to use different types of ufos.

[edit on 20-4-2007 by SkyWay]

My problem with the raygun/lasergun is just how bad it looks. I mean its almost complete Gerry Anderson in apearance. This is a very lowbrow answer by myself but if it moves like a fish looks like a fish smells like a fish. Then in most cases it clearly is a fish.



[edit on 20-4-2007 by h3akalee]

Originally posted by XL5
I Optical faces do not like dust and do have an optical power/energy density rating. This gun is too small for the energy density claimed unless they found new elements to make the optics out of. Is there ANY spec's on this gun other then what it did or could do?

Your comlaints are well thought out for 2007 technology but you are limited by not having the slightest idea of what technology might consist of 1000 years from now.

For instance, if you gave a caveman a Colt .45 Mark IV Automatic and told him it was a weapon to shoot bullets these would probably be a few of his complaints:

This stick is bent
It is not heavy enough to use as a club
If bullets come out of the they certainly wouldn't cause as much damage as my club because they are only the size of a small rock
How would bullets know how and when to come out anyway?
this stick is too small to make fear in other cavemen
it doesn't weigh enough to be a club it needs to be made out of wood
I don't think I cold even throw it hard enough to cause any damage
which end is up? Ha Ha.
Attack weapon? This is joke.


While many posters here have the best of intentions in trying to evaluate whether or not the Bill Meier ray gun is real they are limited by their education and knowledge obtained in this century.

Firing a gun............so easy a caveman can do it!

Sorry, just had to.

Peace