Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

If i may ask this Mr Lear do you class yourself as also having the same education and knowledge obtained in this century ?

If no is it possible to tell me where you obtained such an education ?
Do you maybe know something the rest of us do not about Billy's boomstick ?

Regards
Lee



[edit on 20-4-2007 by h3akalee]

Originally posted by h3akalee
If i may ask this Mr Lear do you class yourself as also having the same education and knowledge obtained in this century ?

Yes. I am just as ignorant as the rest of you.

If no is it possible to tell me where you obtained such an education ?

See above.

Do you maybe know something the rest of us do not about Billy's boomstick ?

No. I have exactly the same information as you.

Originally posted by Dr Love
Firing a gun............so easy a caveman can do it!

Ha Ha. What if I said "So easy Dr. Love could do it?"

Infact that is quite comforting to know. However if anyone did have such information im pretty shure me just asking them to be out with it would be pretty futile.

Well now that we are all in the same boat so it seems lets see how this thread roll's out.

Lets say the laser gun is real.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, it is a 600 year old antique.

Why did "they" bring a 600 year old antique weapon with them, and why did they show "us" it?

I wouldn't show "them" an early cannon from the 1400's.

So my follow up question would be, is there any documentation of what their current weapons look like?



To me, the gun looks like a hodgepodge of a couple vintage toy guns / water pistols. That is my opinion.

Anyone want to do some research?

www.toyraygun.com...

Originally posted by Dulcimer

Why did "they" bring a 600 year old antique weapon with them, and why did they show "us" it?

I don't know. Maybe the same reason we are taking the F-22 to Iraq. To impress them.

I wouldn't show "them" an early cannon from the 1400's.

I'm not sure what your point is her Dulcimer but if you are trying to be facetious...you missed. If your are not, what would be the point of showing somebody infinitely more advanced than you a weapon that predates you by 600 years?

So my follow up question would be, is there any documentation of what their current weapons look like?

Obviously. But I doubt earthlings would have access to it.

To me, the gun looks like a hodgepodge of a couple vintage toy guns / water pistols. That is my opinion.

Thats because in your life experience that is all you have to compare it to. You have never seen or operated any real ray guns from outer space so your concept is limited to what you actually have seen or held or operated.

Anyone want to do some research?

Sure. What did you have in mind?

Originally posted by johnlear
real ray guns from outer space

Just a note....ironic how the site that promotes "intelligent discussion" in its 10th anniversary press release, features the above phrase without blinking.

Next week we'll discuss Emporer Ming and his plans to thwart Buck Rogers.

How could we say "plastic" ray or laser gun as if it were definitely prescribing a fake alien weapon pic?
I mean, maybe it is plastic of some form? Light weight and more importantly could mean it may have been made from oil products here on our ball.

Dallas

For those who are interested, you can pick up the rest of the info I posted here - to which virtually no one has actually made any in depth, relevant responses - continuing on page 4.

There are many threads already existing that examine the prophecies. For starters, there are countless predictions (just as with any such "prophet") that are not only true, but obviously have a cold war slant that did not foresee the cold war ending and thus paints such predictions as absurd.

In addition, even IF every single prediction was true, they are a) of a trivial nature, hardly what one would expect from beings trying to "save" us (height of a mountain, astronomical tidbits, etc.). Also, even validification of said prophecies would NOT have any bearing on the rather amateurish earlier UFO photos, video, or Billy's statements regarding visitation.

It would bear no fruit for me to continue to post here, as even simple requests for a critic to duplicate the photographic evidence, heck, even the gold foil suit, are not only ignored but the same silly attacks are made again and again!

The photos have been duplicated. The Meier camp simply rejects it (and why wouldn't they?). In fact, one of our own members (followers of the case will know who I mean) participated in it.

In any case, NONE of this, even if it was true beyond true....negates the KNOWN and SHOWN attempts at trickery, such as Asket & Nera, and the time travel "Photos"... In a field where credibility is everything, this case simply doesn't have it.

Sure would be nice if these Plejarens/Pleidians, whichever we're using, would get off their asses and actually DO something, eh? I mean, entertaining Billy with alien trivial pursuit isn't really helping us here on Earth. It'd be nice if they'd come down and get some face time with people who really CAN effect a change. (but that isn't likely to happen, now is it?)

In the end, it's up to the individual to either believe the Meier story, or dismiss it, based on the evidence...and no amount of debate will ever really change that.

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by johnlear
real ray guns from outer space

Just a note....ironic how the site that promotes "intelligent discussion" in its 10th anniversary press release, features the above phrase without blinking.

Next week we'll discuss Emporer Ming and his plans to thwart Buck Rogers.

Just so I am clear on this MrPenny are you saying that there are no real ray guns from outer space anywhere including outer space or just that Billy Meiers alleged ray gun cannot be proven to be from outer space or even a ray gun or that an 'intelligent discussion' should not include real ray guns from outer space? Just want to be clear on this. Thanks.

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by johnlear
real ray guns from outer space

Just a note....ironic how the site that promotes "intelligent discussion" in its 10th anniversary press release, features the above phrase without blinking.

Next week we'll discuss Emporer Ming and his plans to thwart Buck Rogers.

Fortunately we don't control the topics, or the content of posts only the tone of the discussion. If you want censored, scripted discussion there are thousands of sites that will limit posts to only those that fit their agenda.

At ATS, ALL friendly conversations are welcome within the bounds of the TAC my suggestion to you, Mr. Penny, would be to find one that has a topic that interests you.

Springer...

As I mentioned...

Gold lame' fabric at Joann's (which is a costumer's dream store, by the way)....

www.joann.com...



[edit on 20-4-2007 by Gazrok]

Yowza.....who ruined your Friday?

Its like listening to railroad engineers discuss their "choo-choos". Or a surgeon asking for the "rib spready thingy".

Sorry I peed in your soup.

Originally posted by MrPenny

Sorry I peed in your soup.

MrPenny, intelligent discussion just doesn't get any better than this. You have my vote for Way Above Top Secret!!! Cheers.

Originally posted by johnlear
are you saying that there are no real ray guns from outer space anywhere including outer space or just that Billy Meiers alleged ray gun cannot be proven to be from outer space or even a ray gun or that an 'intelligent discussion' should not include real ray guns from outer space?

Wow, that comment of mine totally missed the mark, didn'it?

If I'm willing to consider the probability of intelligent beings in other parts of the universe....I'm pretty much leaving the door open for the possibility of them toting some kind of personal weaponry.

It was about the banality of the phrase "ray gun from outer space". It struck me as funny in an ironic fashion. Hell's bells....Marvin the Martian was more specific than that with his "Uranium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator" (even just thinking it, I still slip into that odd nasally tone used in the cartoon). Here we are, bunch of supposedly bright people, and the best we can come up with is "ray gun".

Edit to add: Yeah, I worked a long time on the "soup" thing. Strunk and White wasn't much help.

[edit on 20-4-2007 by MrPenny]

Originally posted by johnlear

You have never seen or operated any real ray guns from outer space so your concept is limited to what you actually have seen or held or operated.

No, I have never operated a real "ray gun" from outer space.

I admit my knowledge is limited.

But that does not mean I cannot try to find a logical explanation for the objects origin and composition.

I will state again that the object looks like a hodgepodge of various vintage toy guns / water pistols.

The argument against this states (from theyfly.com)
www.theyfly.com...

Nor did he know that we had been to every toy supplier in Switzerland and failed to find any toy weapon anything like the laser pistol Meier photographed. A search of sporting good stores was equally fruitless. To this day we have never found a match for that laser pistol.

That does not mean it cannot be explained by these means.

It very well could be a manufactured item put together from existing objects, or made from scratch.

Just because the object has not turned up and nobody has come forward stating the object is fake doesn't mean we cannot question its authenticity.

I do not need experience with a "real ray gun" to question its authenticity.

Just like you do not need experience to question it either.

Deny ignorance.

There are tons of possibilities. Just by looking at some toy photos you can see why people question its authenticity.

www.toytent.com...
www.theweaponshop.com...
www.sinasnet.nl...

Now, I cannot say what an authentic weapon of this nature would look like, but I cannot disregard the fact that many toys look like the object in question.

Originally posted by Dulcimer

Now, I cannot say what an authentic weapon of this nature would look like, but I cannot disregard the fact that many toys look like the object in question.

Thanks very much for your post Dulcimer it is greatly appreciated.

In regards to your statement "many toys look like the object in question" would you be so kind as to post pictures of 5 of the toys that look closest to the object in question?

By looking at the pictures of the toys you post in comparison to Billy Meiers ray gun we can determine what you consider to be similar. That would then tell us whether or not you would be of any help in determining if a toy gun might be in fact the Bill Meier alleged ray gun.

Although I am not an expert in ray guns from outer space, as a matter of fact I have only seen one other (alleged) ray gun from outer space in addition the the (alleged) Billy Meier ray gun from outer space, I am very well acquainted with hand guns and small machine guns have bought, sold, traded and used many types throughout my career and also had a gun shop for many years here in Las Vegas called "Special Weapons, Inc." which also held a Class 3 permit from ATF.

Thanks very much for your help in sorting out the issues associated with this thread.

Mr Lear I have follwed this thread for a while without blinking and I can say you have been the most levelheaded in both theory AND discussion. It is obvious in my opinion that many items which have "alleged" extraterrestrial uses look silly to us. A saucer would not be my choice for a craft, I would want something that "looked" intimidating. However it seems saucers are among the most intimidating crafts, not for how they look, but by their actions. I believe the same may hold true here with this "alleged" ray gun.
This is an area I have no knowledge of, therefore it would be foolish for me to do anything but theorize. Making a mockery of something just because I don't understand it would be ignorant.

-Kudos
your intelligence and demeanor have not gone unrecognized

Mocking aside, let's discuss...

Let's take this pic of the "wedding cake" UFO for example.
Now, without even getting into why the base of this "craft" exactly resembles a trash can lid like others found at Billy's, let's examine the photo.



The "Tree". First off, it's obviously a branch of leaves or small plant EXTREMELY close to the camera (otherwise we'd see a "trunk").

The "Craft". Aside from the asymmetrical space between "bearings" (for lack of a better word), one has to consider just what is illuminating the car and the craft? From the rest of the photo, this is obviously an otherwise dark area. Yet the light source is coming from the direction of the photographer (and just to the left of the photographer), and intense enough to light the scene. This either suggests some serious spotlights, or one regular light on a much smaller scene scale.

The "Car". From the size of the trash can lid, this is not a matchbox car, but rather a larger model, such as about 10 inches or so...not exactly hard to find. Because the car is so lit up, as is the "craft", the craft must be fairly close to the car, and able to be illuminated with the same light source. Again, this means either a large array of spotlights (wasn't aware Billy carried these around, and is often mentioned, "how could a one-armed man do so?"), or a smaller light on a much smaller scene (which is certainly more plausable.

Size, in General. Without any other reference points, there is NO reason to believe the car is life-sized, and therefore no reason to believe the ship is any larger than the model. In fact, the amount of light on both subjects all but confirms the fact that both objects are much smaller.

No, no doubt, we'll hear about the "scientific" analysis of the photos, but we're just talking basic photography knowledge being needed to see what's all there to see...a staged scene. Scientists can be paid...your own eyes and common sense are free of charge...and far more valuable to the individual observer.

In comparison of known toy objects to the weapon in question:

The Red Tip:
Present in numerous toy guns, associated with a lighting or sparking effect.

Notice the red tip and yellow circle on top of the gun:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Red tip and red circle on top of the gun:
www.toytent.com...

Similar shape and circle present on the top of the gun yet again:
(Top Right 92058)
www.sinasnet.nl...


Objects of similar form and appearance predate any Meier contacts:

RAY GUN FROM - Circa 1936

A simple ebay search will show numerous toys that predate the alleged times the laser weapon photos were taken.

This Gun is nearly identical in some aspects

i20.ebayimg.com...

The red tip is extremely similar, down to the ribbing at one end and the raised sight

The gun itself is similar in shape, with the boxy appearance.

Even this small amount of evidence is enough to question the claim of the object.

If the object is made up of several toys we may never find the exact replica.




[edit on 20-4-2007 by Dulcimer]