How can people be so brainwashed

Originally posted by pavil
The "I'm right and your wrong or just stupid or my favorite, "sheeple"' comments are just too immature to even want to discuss with some on the 9/11 conspiracy side. You yourselves in large measure, bring this down upon yourselves. Can't have an honest debate or dialouge without getting into petty name calling.

Stepping off my soapbox now.

Really? I haven't seen a post from you in this thread. Care to put your money were youre mouth is? Care to debate without name calling (which you pretty much did ....hmmm...kettle..black?) I'd like to see you step back on your soap box and join in on this thread and let's have a real debate.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by pavil
Most branches of government aren't nearly as responsive as say a business when it comes to accurate, up to date bookeeping.

And this is acceptable? Why? Why does the government get away with being incompetent? Because people like you think it's ok for them to be. I say, enough with the incompetence or get real jobs. Period.

Originally posted by infinityoreilly
Ahh, partisan politics rears it's ugly head!

Hey, I was not the one bringing up the 3 Trillion. They were making it sound as if it were stolen and I wanted to show it for what it was, poor, albeit on a massive scale, bookeeping on the Pentagon. The Time frame in question is 1998-2000, do you want to dispute that? Go yell at the people bringing it up in the first place and bash them for partisian politics first ok? Jeez.

The actual title of the memo briefing was "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." not "Osama determined to strike US with airplanes" as your state. Get your facts straight first. It was Aug 6th, 2001 that the briefing was given, not the months you claim. Even then the briefing provided no details as to when and where and how. In fact it never said that planes were to be used as missiles into buildings. Don't believe me, read the briefing memo yourself.

The first plane hit and 9:46 and yes it was determined that the President stay with his schedule, details were still coming in at that time. Yes the President was informed when the second plane hit and stayed for some time. Is that evidence of a conspiracy or coverup?

Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S. Aug Memo

Originally posted by pavil
As to the 3 Trillion figure you are throwing around, please provide the links.

benfrank.net...
As it turns out, I made a little mistake. It wasn't 3 trillion, it was 2.3 trillion. I was writing from memory and my memory failed me.
Never the less, just to make you understand how much 2.3 trillion is imagine this:
Imagine one briefcase with a million dollars inside.
Now imagine a van carrying a thousand briefcases all containing a million dollar each.
Now imagine 2300 vans, each one carrying a thousand brief cases each containing a million dollars and you have yourself 2.3 trillion freakin' dollars conveniently forgotten by the public because of what happened on the following day.

Now, of course, they didn't create 9/11 as a diversion for the 2.3 trillion but they knew 9/11 was coming and they timed it perfectly to be completely shadowed into the events 0f 9/11.

Originally posted by Griff

Really? I haven't seen a post from you in this thread. Care to put your money were youre mouth is? Care to debate without name calling (which you pretty much did ....hmmm...kettle..black?) I'd like to see you step back on your soap box and join in on this thread and let's have a real debate.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Never knew it existed, I will check it out. Thank you.

Yes I am quite aware of my own comments. I don't claim to be a Saint, just try to do as civil a debate as possible here. Look at the hyperbole used by some in this thread and tell me how to call them out on it without mentioning their own statements.

Originally posted by pavil
Never knew it existed, I will check it out. Thank you.

I hope you get involved. We need people on the other side to get invloved.

Originally posted by Truth4hire
PATRIOT ACT I
PATRIOT ACT II
MILITARY COMMISSIONS ACT

That sums it up right there.. They have stripped the U.S. population of their RIGHTS again and we are too blind to see it. You may or may not believe the 911 conspiracy theories, but believe this. When your government strips its population of its unalienable rights and nobody says a word, the population might as well be a bunch of zombies. Wake up people!

Originally posted by PepeLapew

Originally posted by pavil
As to the 3 Trillion figure you are throwing around, please provide the links.

benfrank.net...
As it turns out, I made a little mistake. It wasn't 3 trillion, it was 2.3 trillion. I was writing from memory and my memory failed me.

www.whereisthemoney.org...

Ok here is my statement one more time using a website you yourself provided:

The US Government cannot account for trillions of dollars. The DoD reported $1.1 trillion missing in FY 2000 alone!

Ok, when was FY 2000 budget done? Who was responsible for the FY 2000 budget? Who was actually in charge of the DOD in 2000? Just because someone points out another persons mess doesn't make them responsible for it. I am not bashing the Clinton Admin for this really, just giving credit where it is due. Does it really surprise anyone that our own government (whether Democrat or Republican) is wasteful and uses poor accounting methods. Take a look at porkbarrel projects if you want to laugh and cry at the same time. Sad and Mad yes, surprised, hardly. Exactly how did Rumsfield steal the money before he came to power, I am a little vague on that.

By Griff
And this is acceptable? Why? Why does the government get away with being incompetent? Because people like you think it's ok for them to be. I say, enough with the incompetence or get real jobs. Period.

Not acceptable, but the people that were incompetent were the one's around in 1998-2000 with their poor bookeeping skills. I'm sure we have just as incompetent people now when it comes to Pentagon budget issues as witnessed in Iraqi reconstruction efforts. It's not a Democratic or Republican monopoly on this issue, it's just the dang bureaucracy that is always in place regardless of who is in office. It's unfortunately the way Big Government works in this country. It's wasteful, slow and inefficient for the most part. Do you disagree with that? It's been this way for decades.

Originally posted by pavil
Also look at the budget timeframe in question they are referring to. If memory serves me correct it is from the timeframe of 1998-2000. For those with short memories, was Bush in power then?

LOL, that's funny! Do you actually think that Bush is the mastermind behind 9/11? That stoopit ass can't even find the skills to swallow a freakin' pretzel, much less mastermind 9/11. I am sure he knew about it but he's just a ridiculous puppet .....just as Clinton before him and as every other prez since JFK.

That's why they killed him too, because he wasn't a puppet.

BTW, have a listen to one of JFK's speeches here:
www.youtube.com...
Listen to him talking about exposing those acting in secret with no accountability to the American people.
Only 10 days later, he would be killed ..... an other coincidence?

Here is a few more coincidences for you:

-Marvin Bush was a board member of Securacom, a company that re-did the entire security system of the WTC and the two airports from where the airplanes took off.

-Jed Bush was a co-author of a document that called for a New Pearl Harbor in order to attack the ME and increase military budget and American Imperialism. 12 months later 9/11 would happen.

-On the night of 9/11 Dubya wrote in his journal: "Today a new Pearl Harbor happened"

-A man called John O'Neil was the head of counter-terrorism at the FBI and he was closely keeping track on the Taliban and Al Queada. He resigned from the FBI because he felt that eople from above were deliberately trying to sabotage and slow his investigations. John O'Neil found a new job as head of security at the WTC, he started working on 9/10 and died the next day ..... did he know too much?

Also, I invite you to look at an article I wrote 2 years ago. Most of the links are dead now but the info is still valuable. Here's my thread, do comment:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by pavil
The Pentagon has always had rather poor accounting practices, remember the expensive hammers and toilet seats?

Are you kidding me?
It's not mere poor accounting my friend, we are talking about $2,300,000,000,000.oo (do count the zeros) That is 2.3 x one million x one million.
Now, if you are willing to dismiss that as shear incompetence, I really would like to be your accountant.

We are not talking about a $500 hammer here, we are talking about enough money to buy 4600 millions of these $500 hammers.

If you made a clear 40$/hour at your job you would have to work for nine hundred thousand lifetimes in order to make that kind of money.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by PepeLapew]

Originally posted by pavilIt's unfortunately the way Big Government works in this country. It's wasteful, slow and inefficient for the most part. Do you disagree with that?

No I don't agree with that. It's not incompetence. It might be incompetence when you are talking about a $500 hammer but when you talk about 2300 vans filled with 1000 briefcases each filled with a million dollars, it's not incompetence, it's treason pure and simple.

Originally posted by PepeLapew
it's not incompetence, it's treason pure and simple.

I'm sick of incompetence used as an excuse. And an exceptable one at that? I say no.

Originally posted by PepeLapew
No I don't agree with that. It's not incompetence. It might be incompetence when you are talking about a $500 hammer but when you talk about 2300 vans filled with 1000 briefcases each filled with a million dollars, it's not incompetence, it's treason pure and simple.

Just so I am straight with your contention.
Yes the miss accounting (if that's a word) was done between 1998 and 2000 and that regardless of what party is in power, they are merely pawns to the bureaucracy that is the for lack of a better word "the shadow government".

Who exactly would your try for this "treason"? the people who actually did the sloppy accounting or the one's who discovered it? Do you think the money is actually missing or just poorly accounted for?

The actual auditors report could find no criminal intent, just horrendous lapses in general accounting procedures. Not that that should give anyone warm fuzzies.

If I have mistated your opinions, my apologies in advance.

Originally posted by pavil
Just so I am straight with your contention.
Yes the miss accounting (if that's a word) was done between 1998 and 2000 and that regardless of what party is in power, they are merely pawns to the bureaucracy that is the for lack of a better word "the shadow government".

You are starting to get the idea. The idea that the democrats and republicans are adversaries is just an illusion. They are both guilty of treason and once enough of us become aware of it, we will march down to DC and that day will be known as "The Day Of The Hemp Rope" and what a glorious day it will be.
I hope you'll join us.

Originally posted by pavil
The actual auditors report could find no criminal intent, just horrendous lapses in general accounting procedures.

And how many "auditors" do you think 2.3 trillion tomatoes can buy?

Originally posted by pavil
Do you think the money is actually missing or just poorly accounted for?

I'll let you answer that yourself. Do you think that an accountant forgot to carry the one and POOF 2.3 trillions are gone or do you think it was stolen from the public coffers?
Do you think that the fact that it was released on 9/10 and forgotten the next day is pure coincidence or do you think it's a little too convenient?
Don't you think it's funny that Jed Bush and buddies were saying they needed a "New Pearl Harbor" in order to make their plans possible and in the same time George Bush used the exact same "New pearl Harbor" wording to describe the events of 9/11?

And my other thread about Raytheon .... do you think those were all coincidences too?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 24-4-2007 by PepeLapew]

Originally posted by pavil
Exactly how did Rumsfield steal the money before he came to power, I am a little vague on that.

I can understand your confusion. But here's a radically new way of viewing your gubment: you think of it as Democrats and Republicans with their terms but that's just a facade, a wrestling match if you will, a fake front to keep you busy.

The real gubment is the "special interest groups", the ones that pay campaign contributions on both sides, the ones make or break a president. the ones who get tax refunds without ever paying taxes. the ones that make billions after billions every time the country goes to war. The ones who shot JFK to shut him up and got away with it. Since that time, they have gained considerably more power. I know you don't believe any of this because you don't hear about them on the 6 o'clock news but they exist. They own the banks, they own the Federal Reserves, they own the World Bank, they are the Rothschild's and the Rockerfellers of the world. The elite of the planet, those who financed both Hitler and the allies.

This conspiracy is so great that you can't pinpoint this on Rumsfeld, they were here before him, they will be here after him. They have all the power of the world, including the power to control the press since they also own that too.

The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
— J. Edgar Hoover

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today."
— US President Theodore Roosevelt, 1906

"The government, which was designed for the people, has got into the hands of the bosses and their employers, the special interests. An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy"
— Woodrow T. Wilson: 28th president of the United States 1856-1924

Now imagine, these presidents are quoted from over a 100 years ago. Think of how much power these "special interest groups" have gained since then!

[edit on 24-4-2007 by PepeLapew]

[edit on 24-4-2007 by PepeLapew]

[edit on 24-4-2007 by PepeLapew]

Originally posted by pavil

The first plane hit and 9:46 and yes it was determined that the President stay with his schedule, details were still coming in at that time. Yes the President was informed when the second plane hit and stayed for some time. Is that evidence of a conspiracy or coverup?

Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S. Aug Memo

9:46? areyou sure about that? Maybe 8:46? So to continue are you defending the respose of our "elected" officials in the years leading up to 911? Especially the day of the attacks? There's no cover up only disinformation to create division between patriotic americans of the middle class. 911 was allowed to happen wasn't it? Do you believe the terrorists were able to do this without many people in top positions at least looking the other way?

spelling

[edit on 4/24/2007 by infinityoreilly]

Originally posted by pavil
Do you think the money is actually missing or just poorly accounted for?

Again, I will answer that with a question:
Consider Enrron, do you think they had "poor accounting" or do you think they outright stole money?
The answer is obvious but somehow, because the gubment numbers are far greater and simply because it's the gubment most people simply refuse to lay blame on them.

"Oh, it's just an accounting mistake, our gubment would never willingly steal money from it's own people"

Well, maybe you buy that, I sure as hell don't.

Originally posted by pavil
I'm glad you aren't as rude like the rest of them, calling someone names and spitting in their face is so much more civil. Thanks!

Believe me, once you know what we know, you will become extremely angry, as you should be. Sometimes the frustration and anger we feel gets directed at the wrong people, it can be very frustrating to try to tell people about the truth when they just shrug their shoulders and look at us as if we were "tin foil hat conspiracy theorists"

[edit on 24-4-2007 by PepeLapew]

Originally posted by Griff
I'm sick of incompetence used as an excuse. And an exceptable one at that? I say no.

Well it is kinda hard to be incompetent and omnipotent at the same time, Griff.

That is why this whole 9/11 truth movement is a huge diservice to the American public.

For the foundation of the claims presented by the "Truth movement" rely on the U.S. Federal Government being able to secretly construct and perform a ridiculously complex plan and resulting cover-up with seemless precision.

So seemless that here, 6 years later, there is still not one shread of SOLID TANGIBLE EVIDENCE to support the CT's claims.

How about we forget about fantsy driven theories, and concern ourselves with the real problem of a bloated, complacent, incompetent, poorly communicating bureaucratic system?

To me that is the real problem..and likely a reason why Americans weren't protected as well as we could have been on 9/11. (Of course hindsight is 20/20)

Not to sound contrary, nor to derail the thread, but I hope I can get some clarification from ya on something. You say that the government couldn't pull off "a ridiculously complex plan", such as 9/11. What makes you think this, when the people truly in power have all of the resources to do such a thing without getting caught? I'm just wondering, mind you...

TheBorg

claim ignorance, first.
deny everything.
counter accuse.

right, gwionx?

too bad the levy already broke.

even last october, an angus reid poll showed only 21% of people believed the official story.

the bandwagon technique doesn't work anymore.