How can people be so brainwashed

You didn't have time to fully research my post...you responded within minutes.

Originally posted by LightWorker13
Well my research and your research seem to conflict, but what conflicts even more is the government account and hard facts.

So typical, you claim something to be true, 7 hijackers still being alive in this case and provide no evidence. When someone else provides evidence to dispute your claim you brush it off and try some other attack claiming "hard facts" and present none. See why it is so hard to debate somone like that.

And yes, even though the planes crashed into buildings on 9/11, luggage, personal belongings, seat cushions and ect DID survive the impact and were strewn around the crash sites. They did not vaporize into nothing, parts survived. Do you deny that pieces of the wreckage of the planes including suitcases and other personal belongings survived the planes crashing into the buildings?

Originally posted by pavil
Sorry for the long quotes, there was a major case of someone claiming something that needed to be disproven.

You may be right. I'm not sure because I'm not as educated in Nazi Germany, as you pointed out. But, in your quotes, I didn't see anything about the hinderance of German citizens buying nor traveling. And the reason I said German citizens was because I knew someone would start talking about Jews. As you pointed out, Jews were not considered German citizens, so pointing out things about Jews has nothing to do with what I was pointing out.

Originally posted by GwionX

Originally posted by LightWorker13
I challenge anyone to prove the official story of 911. We have done our job bringing you the proof to support our side

Say What? Done your job to bring proof to support your side? What Proof? A YouTube Video? YGBSM!

One thing I agree on. But, it is practically impossible for us to pring proof to the table when the government has all the evidence.

How about a true peer-reviewed study on ANY of the main points of this conspiracy theory.

How much of the official story has been truely peer reviewed? How can an independant peer review something when they don't have access to the same evidence as the writter of the report?

The 9/11 conspiracy theories have NO proof to back them up.

Nor does the official version. or at least proof that is publicly available.

Have you guys read anything Ive written? Thats why I dont use things like videos, because ppl will go oh you found that on the internet, its worthless. Thats why I bring you only facts.

Why must you be shown everything like a child, a quick google search will tell you 7 hijackers are still live, theres no excuse for mental sloth...

I have given you proof, its your job to at least check it out. Nobody ever gives me any kind of info to prove their case, none, I have to go find out myself and I do.

But so you can be lazy here...

news.bbc.co.uk...

www.welfarestate.com...

No excuse for mental sloth, dont know what sloth means, go look it up.



[edit on 13-4-2007 by LightWorker13]

Originally posted by Griff
But, it is practically impossible for us to pring proof to the table when the government has all the evidence.

In terms of formulating a complete theory of the 9/11 events, I think this is a very fair assessment of the TRUE plight of the truth movement.

Unfortunately, here is the attitude of the most vocal population of the truth movement...

Originally posted by LightWorker13
...a quick google search will tell you 7 hijackers are still live...

Personally, I do not believe that the most perfectly executed conspiracy in the history of secrets could be unravelled with a "quick google search."

You should follow Griff's lead and persue more legitimate sources.

And, for the record, I do know what sloth means...it means you think you can take the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to court using THE INTERNET as your star witness.

Originally posted by Griff
You may be right. I'm not sure because I'm not as educated in Nazi Germany, as you pointed out. But, in your quotes, I didn't see anything about the hindrance of German citizens buying nor traveling. And the reason I said German citizens was because I knew someone would start talking about Jews. As you pointed out, Jews were not considered German citizens, so pointing out things about Jews has nothing to do with what I was pointing out.

Cmon now, do you really consider Germans Jews as not being German citizens in the broad sense. Did they just become citizens of no nation? Restrictions were put on them in buying and traveling prior to them being denied German citizenship. Germans citizens in general were discouraged by the "brown shirts" from shopping and buying from Jews as well. Jews and others were banned from and fired from civil service jobs and they were still German citizens at the time. I understand that you sought to specify "citizens" but even then you are incorrect.

en.wikipedia.org... e_Professional_Civil_Service

Nuremberg Laws

Originally posted by LightWorker13
Have you guys read anything Ive written? Thats why I dont use things like videos, because ppl will go oh you found that on the internet, its worthless. Thats why I bring you only facts.

Again, almost of your sources are from late 2001- early 2002. If contend that some of the 19 highjackers are still alive where are the interviews with them now in 2007? Why the lack of reporting? Please tell me why this story died? What did the 9/11 commission have to say.

www.9-11commission.gov...

I suppose their findings are irrelavent to you.

Originally posted by GwionX
All in all, life is too short to obsess over fantasy. If the events of 9/11 were indeed a government conspiracy, believe me, massive amounts of people would know it by now.

Thousands of poeple were involved in the Manhatten Project and it was kept secret for years.

Hundreds of people worked on the SR-71 spy plane, dozens of companies made parts for it but it was kept secret for 10 years.



[edit on 13-4-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by pavil
I understand that you sought to specify "citizens" but even then you are incorrect.

Ok. Can I be more specific then? Would Arean (sp?) German Citizens be more specific?

Originally posted by Griff

Ok. Can I be more specific then? Would Arean (sp?) German Citizens be more specific?

Sure that would be accurate, not trying to nitpick.

Nazi Germany was not a fun place to live according to the Germans I have met and talked to even if you were 100% German. Even then they had a heck of a time leaving Germany for good and they were German Aryan Citizens. No sorces for that other than my talking with people alive during the 1930's in Germany. This will be my last post on this aspect of the discussion.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Thousands of poeple were involved in the Manhatten Project and it was kept secret for years.

For this to be an accurate comparison you would have to show me how the project was kept secret AFTER Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Hundreds of people worked on the SR-71 spy plane, dozens of companies made parts for it but it was kept secret for 10 years.

Again, this would only be a decent comparison if the SR-71 was used to bomb New York, claimed to be a product of a foreign Air Force...and afterward, everyone involved in the project REMAINED completely classified.

Originally posted by pavil
This will be my last post on this aspect of the discussion.

Thanks for the history lesson. My last post also about this. Sorry to go off topic OP.

hah!...everyone for the 911 conspiracy are truthseekers and everyone against it is an agent from the goverment...typical bannanas...

The reason why people seem to be so brainwashed is because the majority of them don't hang around ATS, therefore are not exposed to all the inconsistencies with the offical story. As a result the mere idea that the government could perpetrate such evil attack is unthinkable to them. You need to try and remember what your initial reaction was when this idea was first brought up. This is how everyone outside of ATS still thinks.

[edit on 13-4-2007 by speaker]

Originally posted by speaker
The reason why people seem to be so brainwashed is because the majority of them don't hang around ATS, therefore are not exposed to all the inconsistencies with the offical story.

As opposed to the inconsistencies of most CT's about 9/11? There was thermite or controlled demo even though there is not one piece of physical evidence to support it. Or that there was a missile not a plane striking the Pentagon, even though there was remains of plane parts yet no remains of a missile? Just minor details eh?

Originally posted by pavil
As opposed to the inconsistencies of most CT's about 9/11? There was thermite or controlled demo even though there is not one piece of physical evidence to support it. Or that there was a missile not a plane striking the Pentagon, even though there was remains of plane parts yet no remains of a missile? Just minor details eh?

The difference is that the CTers aren't privy to the evidence. The CTers aren't the ones who spent millions of tax payer dollars to still have gaping holes in their conclusions. And most important of all, the CTers aren't the ones hiding.

I spent about an hour doing a comparison of steel beams loosing strength due to temperature. Something that I would have expected to see in the NIST report. But, alas, there are no structural calculations to be seen or peer reviewed in the whole thing.

You might want to start looking at the official conspiracy theory with as much criticism as the other conspiracy theories.

Originally posted by pavilAs opposed to the inconsistencies of most CT's about 9/11? There was thermite or controlled demo even though there is not one piece of physical evidence to support it. Or that there was a missile not a plane striking the Pentagon, even though there was remains of plane parts yet no remains of a missile? Just minor details eh?

So what's your point? Are you trying to say there is a conspiracy behind the conspiracy theories? If so, which one? This is a ridiculous argument you make.

Originally posted by speaker
So what's your point? Are you trying to say there is a conspiracy behind the conspiracy theories? If so, which one? This is a ridiculous argument you make.

Personally, I think there is a conspiracy behind the conspiracy theories.

I don't think that everyone who believes in the CT's necessarily agrees with the "original theory conspirators."

You have to ask yourself: "Who originally constructed these theories"

Let's start with This guy: Thierry Meyssan



A Freakin' French dude, that is considered a militant libertarian.. He is credited with most of the Pentagon Theories from his bestselling French book in 2002...The No plane at the pentagon theory, the Cruise Missle at the pentagon theory, He also came up with that gem that the Planes that hit WTC 1&2 were guided by remote control....ahem, theory.

Now, I just had to ask myself...WTF? Why in gods great creation would I blindly believe THAT guy? I was thinking he had better be some super-intelligent scholar with little or no ties to some political agenda or other clandestine thought processes. So I checked....this is what I found:

Time article from May 13, 2002, about Meyssan

Another article about Meyssan and his "research":

On the final page of his book, Meyssan expresses gratitude to a number of people who assisted him in his research. One of them was "P.-H. B." This refers to Pierre-Henri Bunel, a former French major who – in December 2001 – was found guilty of treason for tipping off the Serbs about NATO military plans before the Kosovo conflict.[20] Bunel, a French military intelligence officer, had passed classified documents that identified potential NATO bombing targets in Serbia to a Serbian agent during the Kosovo war in 1998. Moreover, Meyssan's advisor Bunel published articles in "Jeune Résistance," a review which is both anti-globalist and right extremist. Fabrice Robert, the editor of "Jeune Résistance," is a convicted Holocaust denier.[21] The review is linked to the right extremist group "Unité Radicale" (Radical Union, UR) which expressed support for Hamas and the German Neo-Nazi Horst Mahler, a former member of the Red Army Faction (RAF), an extremely violent marxist and terrorist organization.

Link

Ok enough about the Pentagon.. Lets move to Controlled Demolition theories in the New York WTC complex...Where did those theories originate?

Well, they came in large part from THIS guy: Eric Hufschmid



Eric, likes long walks on the beach, getting cozy nestled by a warm fireplace, puppies OMG! lots of puppies! LOL...oh, and hating Jews openly.

In his 2002 book Painful Questions Hufschmid brings to light his WTC Controlled Demolition Theories...

Now, I just had to ask myself...WTF? Why in gods great creation would I blindly believe THAT guy? I was thinking he had better be some super-intelligent scholar with little or no ties to some political agenda or other clandestine thought processes. So I checked....this is what I found:

How does this Eric Hufschmid think? Here is an Exerpt:

title: Who would put explosives in WTC? And why?
author: Eric Hufschmid

None of the books or movies about the Holocaust are serious; rather, they try to stimulate pity of Jews and hatred of Nazis. The Holocaust stories are attempts to manipulate, not educate.

The Jews are simply exploiting the suffering and death of their fellow Jews. The moment a Jew suffers or dies, the other Jews look for ways to exploit the situation. It reminds me of the way cockroaches immediately begin eating one another when one of them dies.

LINK

This from the originator of the WTC demolition theory? Is he a demolition expert? A structral Engineer?..Nope Eric is a computer programer.

If you check out his Website, you will find he is no comedian either
www.erichufschmid.net... In fact, he is a sick nazi mouthbreather. But I guess this guy deserves Blind faith in his Controlled Demolition Theory from all of the "truthseekers", after all his theory was only countered by a team 200 of our nations most competent researchers and engineers, NIST.

So now you might be wondering about the non-existence of the Flight 93 crash site theory, and pools of moulton "steel" at ground zero theory..Right? Where did those theories come from? Well, from the heavily quoted pubication "The American Free Press" (you might recognize that many of the quotes shown in Loose Change are from the AFP)

More specifically THIS guy: Christopher Bollyn



First a bit about the American Free Press that Bollyn formerly worked for..and his boss Willis Carto here is an excerpt:

The American Free Press was founded by Willis Carto, believed by some critics to be the leading exponent of anti-Semitism in the United States in the latter half of the 20th century. Carto, widely considered a white supremacist, was co-founder of the Institute for Historical Review, which has championed Holocaust revisionism and has been accused of being a neo-Nazi organization. Carto also founded The Barnes Review, and the Liberty Lobby, best known for publishing the now-defunct paper The Spotlight. Carto and other editors from The Spotlight went on to establish the American Free Press.

www.signs-of-the-times.org... Here is an article about Bollyn, complete with a large messageboard thread, and an audio interview with the police departments description of Chris's latest "Freak-out episode."

These guys weren't disinfo--they were the original foundation 9/11 CT.
The point of this post isn't to perform a character assination, so much as to logically ask: Why would you blindly trust and believe these people as being accurate over hundreds of more qualified experts in investigation, engineering, demolition, foriensics, et.al.?

You are missing the point. The issue is not how well the multitude of different conspiracy theories hold up under scrutiny, but how well the official story holds up. It doesn't, yet the title of this thread asks why so many people are unable to realise this.

That's the point.