How can people be so brainwashed

Originally posted by GwionX

Originally posted by LightWorker13
I challenge anyone to prove the official story of 911. We have done our job bringing you the proof to support our side

Say What? Done your job to bring proof to support your side? What Proof? A YouTube Video? YGBSM!

How about a true peer-reviewed study on ANY of the main points of this conspiracy theory.

The 9/11 conspiracy theories have NO proof to back them up. Only conjecture, hunches, and wishfull thinking--Buying into this smokescreen of cherry-picked half-truths is being veiled, and yet simutaneously emboldened by the truth leaders as traits of an open-mind, an amazing power of observation that is possessed by only a few of the sharpest minds ( the true believers).. when in actuality a closed mind is being produced.... The victim is so busy feeling special, rarely do they realize they have been duped.

Unfortunately this describes the mindset of most of my "colleagues" pretty damn well. I can't disagree with a word of that. Sorry guys, its true. Stop and check.
And a note: some of the poeple here aren't real. They're bots or agents. I don't know or care exactly who, but there are not this many idiots and dupes in the real world. Real people are smarter than that, which is why its funny people think the Web is where to wage the "truth" campaign. It is, if by "truth" you mean the tripe we've been getting.

And so I dug your other post too, but must note: I don't blindly believe any of those dorks. I don't need any of it, I knew - strongly suspeted - from minute one it was allowed or even orchestrated, somehow. I've considered the official story, it makes some sense, And yet most people are unable to seriously consider any seriously different or unseettling interpretation that what the 9/11 Comm or media gatekeepers allow. Quite a few buy Hufschmid or Loose Change I feel because they know it's ultimately wrong, and thus in a way safe. They can act like truthers, vent, be proven wrong, grow up and move on. Just a feeling I get.

"Brainwashing" is a strong term, but that's what this thread is about, and indeed there is a sort of block involved with the general public - many different ways of avoiding the truth. and then to top it off a parade of disinfo artists tainting the well the alternates draw from ... it's an ugly scene for one who really wants the truth - but knowing I can't have it anyway helps.


[edit on 14-4-2007 by Caustic Logic]

[edit on 14-4-2007 by Caustic Logic]

Originally posted by SpeakerYou are missing the point. The issue is not how well the multitude of different conspiracy theories hold up under scrutiny, but how well the official story holds up. It doesn't, yet the title of this thread asks why so many people are unable to realise this.

But, that's what these people do. You ask them, "show a global collapse in history from fire on a steel highrise" and they come back with "Judy Woods is a pot head", "So-and-so is a neo-nazi, jew hater". Or they come back saying something about hollograms and pods to distract from the fact that they have squat to back up the official theory.

A question to the official theory believers. How can you blindly follow the NIST report when they don't show how they came to their conclusions? Meaning, no drawings or specs to back up anything they say. No reporting of the parameters of their computer models etc. The CTers might not have all their ducks in a row, but neither does the official story and you peoploe need to step back and take a look at the governments story with as a sceptical eye as you do with other CTs.

[edit on 4/14/2007 by Griff]

Originally posted by Griff
But, that's what these people do. You ask them, "show a global collapse in history from fire on a steel highrise" and they come back with "Judy Woods is a pot head", "So-and-so is a neo-nazi, jew hater". Or they come back saying something about hollograms and pods to distract from the fact that they have squat to back up the official theory.

A question to the official theory believers. How can you blindly follow the NIST report when they don't show how they came to their conclusions? Meaning, no drawings or specs to back up anything they say. No reporting of the parameters of their computer models etc. The CTers might not have all their ducks in a row, but neither does the official story and you people need to step back and take a look at the governments story with as a sceptical eye as you do with other CTs.

Griff, I give you respect due to your posts on the subject of 9/11 and the research you put into your responses. You and a handful of others out here at ATS seemed to have done much in the way of personal research and calculations. For that I applaud you.

Don't you find it disturbing that many of the CT's seem to have other agendas (anti-Semitism and NWO for example) prior to and in addition to the 9/11 stuff? There would not be debunkers bringing up holograms, pods and nuclear weapons if they were not brought up by some of the CT's themselves. Call your fellow CT's out for such out there statements first ok, before you go after debunkers for mentioning them.

I think that we will never have a complete picture of the collapse of the WTC's on 9/11, mainly due to the fact that we don't know the full extent of the damage done by the initial impact and explosion and the damage and weakening done by the subsequent fires. We have estimates and educated guesses but no hard data. And we probably never will. Does not the NIST report show what they believe to be the damage done to the Support structures of the WTC by the airplanes impact? Do you agree or disagree with that estimate? If the NIST had all the proper parameters and drawings and specs to paint the complete picture of the collapse, would you consider them valid?

The problem with CT's is that their theories have none of the same things you bash the NIST and "official story" for. There are no facts to support even the most bland of the CT's out there.


You asked "show a global collapse in history from fire on a steel highrise"
I quite respectfully say, show me a building of the WTC's size which took such a massive blow as they did, with fully fueled planes smacking into them at very near top speed. I don't think you can, they are unique in that respect in the size and construction of the building and the size of the impact and the amount of floors damaged. If you can show me another please do, don't use the Empire State building as an example please, it is not nearly the same situation.

At the very least Griff will you admit that the Planes did strike the WTC's, causing damage over multiple floors and significant fires over multiple floors? That is most of the "official" story basis of the collapse, is it not? That part did happen, did it not?

Also Griff, just for the sake of argument, if 3-7 floors of the WTC, the majority (50% of the weight) of which fall to the intact floors below them, what would happen to the floor struck by that amount of weight? Would it support or would it collapse? What happens to the next intact floor below that one? I am not asking for the mechanism that starts the collapse, just assume for the sake of this one conversation that the collapse starts, what happens after that?

Originally posted by pavil
Griff, I give you respect

As I do you and many others on here. Especially the ones I argue with.

Don't you find it disturbing that many of the CT's seem to have other agendas (anti-Semitism and NWO for example) prior to and in addition to the 9/11 stuff?

Yes, I do.

Does not the NIST report show what they believe to be the damage done to the Support structures of the WTC by the airplanes impact? Do you agree or disagree with that estimate?

I agree with NIST when it comes to their evidence. It's their conclusions that are questionable IMO.

If the NIST had all the proper parameters and drawings and specs to paint the complete picture of the collapse, would you consider them valid?

Yes. Why weren't they included in the first place?

The problem with CT's is that their theories have none of the same things you bash the NIST and "official story" for. There are no facts to support even the most bland of the CT's out there.

This, I will concede to you because it is mostly true. But, let us have access (I mean a real independant research team...not just any joe shmoe) to the evidence and maybe we could do a little better.

At the very least Griff will you admit that the Planes did strike the WTC's, causing damage over multiple floors and significant fires over multiple floors?

Yes, I'll admit that. I'm not a hologram guy.

That is most of the "official" story basis of the collapse, is it not? That part did happen, did it not?

Yes it did happen. What I refute is the loss of enough strength of the steel to facilitate collapse.

Also Griff, just for the sake of argument, if 3-7 floors of the WTC, the majority (50% of the weight) of which fall to the intact floors below them, what would happen to the floor struck by that amount of weight?

Well, let's think about this. When the planes hit, wouldn't about 50% of the floors come crashing down in the area of the plane damage? Why didn't that cause failure then? Also, how does fire weaken all the bolts around the perimeter of the building and in the center of 50% of the building at the exact same time? They wouldn't. It would be a progressive collape of the floors at first. Meaning it wasn't just the weight of the floor crashing all at once. It would have been more gradual than that.

Would it support or would it collapse?

See above. It depends on how much weight is added.

What happens to the next intact floor below that one? I am not asking for the mechanism that starts the collapse, just assume for the sake of this one conversation that the collapse starts, what happens after that?

I am not a structural dynamasisct, so I really have no answers to these questions. There are computer programs out there that could tell us. NIST's own computer models wouldn't fail until they "kicked it up a knotch". Then, they don't even release what parameters they used to get their conclusions? Fishy if you ask me.

Like I've said before, if anyone can prove me wrong, please feel free to. My only stipulation is you have to use known engineering techniques and calculations.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by pavil
Griff, I give you respect

As I do you and many others on here. Especially the ones I argue with.

Thank you. I meant it and others here should try to do likewise. Otherwise it just becomes a namecalling screechfest.

This, I will concede to you because it is mostly true. But, let us have access (I mean a real independant research team...not just any joe shmoe) to the evidence and maybe we could do a little better.

I would agree that others who dispute the "official story" should have access to evidence as long as they are "qualified" and it is kept free from tampering. As long as the integity of the evidence is maintained, I would have no issue. I assume we are mainly refering to the Pentagon "other" videotapes and samples of WTC steel are we not? What other evidence would they have to physically "get their hands on" ? Were any "qualified" CT'ers out there denied entry or a seat on the 9/11 commission or the NIST body? It does seem like many of the CT'ers out there are not even close to being experts in the fields they are entering. Not all but most. Also how was the NIST team flawed in respect to being an independent research team. Is it just because they are a government agency or is there more? They don't seem to be a polictally appointed group from what I know.

Yes it did happen. What I refute is the loss of enough strength of the steel to facilitate collapse.

Fair enough, there will probably never be definitive answers to that as we don't have enough of the actual mechanics and damage done that day to the upper floors of the WTC's. That is the million dollar question though. I think that between intial damage and the following weakening, yes. I can see your point if you think otherwise then. But then you must come up with the reason they still collapse and that is where I run into issues with CT's as the explanation of the collapse mechanism becomes overly complex. I have yet to hear a even ballpark figure from a CTer as to how many charges would need to be placed in each of the WTC towers. I would assume a real demolition company could give an estimate, has anyone heard one giving such an estimate?

Well, let's think about this. When the planes hit, wouldn't about 50% of the floors come crashing down in the area of the plane damage? Why didn't that cause failure then? Also, how does fire weaken all the bolts around the perimeter of the building and in the center of 50% of the building at the exact same time? They wouldn't. It would be a progressive collape of the floors at first. Meaning it wasn't just the weight of the floor crashing all at once. It would have been more gradual than that.

The one thing I disagree with you in the above statement is I don't think 50% of the floors in the damaged area immediately came crashing down and that intially the infrastructure was "solid" enough to withstand it till compromised by more weight and weaking of the infrastructure by the ensuing fires.

I agree that there was probably a gradual build up of weight on the floors damaged in the intial impact as the fires did more damage. I don't claim it was a sudden fall of floors that did the WTC's in, rather a build up of mass on the damaged floors till it lead to a tipping point that led to the catostrophic failure we witness in the video. The time frame once the initial build up happens is still rather quick I think even if it is a incremental, gradual increase.

Like I've said before, if anyone can prove me wrong, please feel free to. My only stipulation is you have to use known engineering techniques and calculations.

I agree that those would be extremely important. I however lack the necessary knowledge to make exact claims, hence my generalizations here. I did calculate the mass of one floor of the WTC in one thread and was pretty astonished at the amount if my calculation was even close to being right.



[edit on 14-4-2007 by pavil]

I think what will garner the support of the "sheeple" would be the realization that the value of the money in their pockets is decided by a very few people, and that that value is fluctuated intentionally to suit the needs of those very elite few. THEN, and only then, will the people wake up to what's really going on.

TheBorg

Edited to add following:

I find it odd that no one cares to mention why it is that the Air Traffic Controllers mentioned that the flight numbers were mixed up on the radar screen. This, to me anyway, is just one more way to slow down response time, as the people would be too busy trying to figure out why these planes are being mislabeled.

Something to consider in the studies.

[edit on 14-4-2007 by TheBorg]

Pavil,

I respect your views and the way you present them.

Originally posted by pavil
I agree that those would be extremely important. I however lack the necessary knowledge to make exact claims, hence my generalizations here.

I didn't specifically mean you. But, anyone who opposses my view is welcome (expert or not) because it makes me look at my own thoughts. I just mean anyone in general. I would like someone to prove the official story. Because, so far, NIST really hasn't in my opinion. One thing, they claim that their theory is that the sagging trusses caused the inward bowing of the perimeter columns. Two things here. One, their theory only holds if the trusses hold (no failing floors). Two, when the planes sliced through the columns, we can pretty much assume that they sliced through the composite floor slabs also. So, how were the trusses intact to pull the exterior columns in the impact floors?

I did calculate the mass of one floor of the WTC in one thread and was pretty astonished at the amount if my calculation was even close to being right.

You got my respect because you have done some calculations yourself and don't rely on other people to tell you.

My stance on the whole situation is that if someone can prove the official story, I'll admit my logical fallacies. Until then, I go on what I was taught in my structural classes.

Originally posted by GwionX
Personally, I think there is a conspiracy behind the conspiracy theories.

I don't think that everyone who believes in the CT's necessarily agrees with the "original theory conspirators."

You have to ask yourself: "Who originally constructed these theories"

oh. i see. you're saying the ADL constructed all the theories.

that's what i read in your post, anyway.

ooooo. "holocaust deniers"..... "anti-semites" ....."hate" ...."blah, blah, blah, blah propoganda"

i use my own ears, eyes, nose and mouth to ferret out the FACT, that 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB, regardless of politics, religion and 'theory'.

it's the (metaphorical) particles in the (metaphorical) settling dust that point fingers at the REAL perps.

"the lady doth protest too much, methinks".

The Bush administration reminded me from the beginging of the programme ' DALLAS ' except JR at least had some brain's. Work on that theory and you may find the answer your looking for.
I believe Bush had been baiting the Arab's before he had even got into power. Even then the voting was rigged!

Let's meet in the middle !.How about calling 911 a JOINT VENTURE? by the OLD AND LOYAL FAMILY FREINDS the BINLADENS AND BUSHS.

1- well after all HALBURTONS (Bush'e comoany) shares have gone from 33 to 66 after the invasion of Iraq.

2- why did the Pentagon let ONLY the relatives of the Saudi royal family and the Bin ladens use the air space to leave the US when all other INNOCENT saudis were kept and Interigated and mistreated by the US??
After all they knew it was Bin laden who did it and the financer behind it.

3- where did Bin laden get the money THEN AND NOW? he must be getting his money from some where!!. It can't be kept in a small Afgani bank ( all the Millions)

4- Where are the famileis of ALL the SO called hijackers, why no one went to interigate them? or even Punish them like the Israelis do the famileis of the suicide Bomers?( surly the jewish run ) pentagon would have thoyght of that.

5-How can any of them be SO CALLED EXTREMISTS MUSLIMS and supposidly following the Quran and the SHARIA when 1/2 of them were ALCAHOL drinkers and had GIRLFREINDS till the last days. Maybe the pentagon and the SO called hijackers struck a deal to use their Identity on return for Money and a change of ID.
What cracked me up is the UNBURNED PASSPORT of the LEADER Mohammed ??? and what a name to choose for the ring leader.

6- why has the JEWISH run media stopped running any thing about the 5 DANCING ISRAELIS? who were caught and seen by BORN AND BRED CHRISTIAN women and not Muslims to suspect of macking it up. Either they saw or were Lying for NO REASON. and also what a coincident that they were ALL EX MOUSSAD!!
whether they were innocent or not ,the question is WHY were they LAUGHING and GLOATING and jumping up and down and giving each other FIVES (A SIGHN OF MISSION ACCOMPLISHED)Ar'nt they soppossed to be AMERICA'S BEST FREIND????. Yet when some palestinians were cheering on the streets for THEIR ligitamate reason as America supplies Israel with weapons to kill them and do nothing about it, AMERICANS were quick to CONDEM them.

7- why are there no footage of the plane ACTUALLY SMASHING into the Pentagon?? only after 4 years they produce a photo of a plane befor it hit and after it hit.Even though this image is possible to creat by computers tecs.As we know a person can be placed on video fotage even if they were not their.

America has staged attacks in the past to achive whatever goals they had.

Originally posted by lisa m
Let's meet in the middle !.How about calling 911 a JOINT VENTURE? by the OLD AND LOYAL FAMILY FREINDS the BINLADENS AND BUSHS.

1- well after all HALBURTONS (Bush'e comoany) shares have gone from 33 to 66 after the invasion of Iraq.

I like this - thinking outside the either-or box. It opens a whole new range of possibilities allowing for the hijackers and denying the official story by explaining their curious level of success.

2- why did the Pentagon let ONLY the relatives of the Saudi royal family and the Bin ladens use the air space to leave the US when all other INNOCENT saudis were kept and Interigated and mistreated by the US??
After all they knew it was Bin laden who did it and the financer behind it.

Good point. Mass detentions - those spooky Arabs, never know who could be involved - even tho some family members were accused of helping finance alQaeda ops, they were all let go to illustrate no ill will to the family, along w/reminders Osama was the black sheep of the family. Spare the family, damn the race.

3- where did Bin laden get the money THEN AND NOW? he must be getting his money from some where!!. It can't be kept in a small Afgani bank ( all the Millions)

From his family, mostly, we're told... second richest in the Kingdom,

4- Where are the famileis of ALL the SO called hijackers, why no one went to interigate them? or even Punish them like the Israelis do the famileis of the suicide Bomers?( surly the jewish run ) pentagon would have thoyght of that.

OOh, now we're slipping into a bad zone. See above posts on the "ADL constructed" conspiracy theories.

5-How can any of them be SO CALLED EXTREMISTS MUSLIMS and supposidly following the Quran and the SHARIA when 1/2 of them were ALCAHOL drinkers and had GIRLFREINDS till the last days. Maybe the pentagon and the SO called hijackers struck a deal to use their Identity on return for Money and a change of ID.
What cracked me up is the UNBURNED PASSPORT of the LEADER Mohammed ??? and what a name to choose for the ring leader.

I think half the others had the same name, Atta's girlfriend Amanda Keller anyway has since recanted and said she made it all up, but otherwise good points. They acted more like patsies than real villains IMO. My fave is Atta's performance to try and finance a pre-9/11 air plot with a USDA loan.

6- why has the JEWISH run media stopped running any thing about the 5 DANCING ISRAELIS? who were caught and seen by BORN AND BRED CHRISTIAN women and not Muslims to suspect of macking it up. Either they saw or were Lying for NO REASON. and also what a coincident that they were ALL EX MOUSSAD!!
whether they were innocent or not ,the question is WHY were they LAUGHING and GLOATING and jumping up and down and giving each other FIVES (A SIGHN OF MISSION ACCOMPLISHED)Ar'nt they soppossed to be AMERICA'S BEST FREIND????. Yet when some palestinians were cheering on the streets for THEIR ligitamate reason as America supplies Israel with weapons to kill them and do nothing about it, AMERICANS were quick to CONDEM them.

Good point on the dance part asymmetry. The dudes nabbed said they were dancing because now USA would understand terrorism like the Israelis did and would surely join the fight. Curious enough I think, and indeed, likely a sign of something deeper. And then sent home like the bin Ladens...

7- why are there no footage

(we've seen)

of the plane ACTUALLY SMASHING into the Pentagon??

Doubting the strike still? Read this.

only after 4 years they produce a photo of a plane befor it hit and after it hit.Even though this image is possible to creat by computers tecs.As we know a person can be placed on video fotage even if they were not their.

The stills of the vid were released in Feb 2002, the full video in I think May 2006. The Video Record The Citgo video relesed last year shows nothing but a reflection of the passing plane, a vid from the Doubletree shows nothing. Others are hidden, and my guess is they show a 757 if they show anything.

[edit on 15-4-2007 by Caustic Logic]

Questions Questions, so many questions. Until these questions are properly addressed and explained, theres every reason for us to believe other versions of what happened on 911.

Originally posted by GwionX

Do you remember the Hare Krishnas all trying to convert people at airports back in the 70's? People hated those pushy Hare Krishnas.

Agreed. I don't want any cult thrust down my throat.

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
People who adamatly dismiss uninterested parties as "sheeple" are usually just upset that they are not the lead shepherd of the flock themselves, and it boils down to a matter of ego - one I am not willing to participate in.

Yeah ego is part of it for sure. All cult leaders are egotists!!

Whatever your opinion of WTC, the world has carried on and those not directly affected have lived on their lives pretty much as they would have.
The 911 cultists have unfortunately also become victims of WTC, I really feel for their families.

OK a few buildings fell down and the world stopped for a bit, well a fair bit of it did. But things are pretty much the same. Well except for the fact that the Bozo President has turned a chance to unite the world and the US into the exact opposite.

I object to the way that the 911 cultists assume that I am a sheeple who has not looked at the "evidence". I have looked at a lot of it and find the arguments inconclusive and conflicting. There seems to be many different interpretations as there are conspiracy authors.

911 Cultists should realise that we all look at the world with different eyes. Thats why courts have juries and sometimes they don't agree.

We are fallable, ten people could witness the same thing and report it differently.

Five years on, my life is pretty much the same as it was in the year of911.
The world did not end for the most of us. Things have and will continue on as before. In all these years you still have not convinced the majority of the world that you are right. I think you should focus on real issues, like what will happen when the USA falls, one thing history shows is that Empires Fall.

Originally posted by T Trubballshoota

OK a few buildings fell down and the world stopped for a bit, well a fair bit of it did. But things are pretty much the same.

I truly pity you if thats how you feel. Maybe your life hasn't changed in five years, then thats fine. But do you really think if 9/11 never happened our troops would still be in iraq? I don't think so.

Five years on, my life is pretty much the same as it was in the year of911.
The world did not end for the most of us. Things have and will continue on as before. In all these years you still have not convinced the majority of the world that you are right. I think you should focus on real issues, like what will happen when the USA falls, one thing history shows is that Empires Fall.

You might as well accept defeat, right?
Sorry no thanks. I refuse to let my country fall. No one ever won a battle laying down.

[edit on 4/15/07 by AcesInTheHole]

Originally posted by billybob
oh. i see. you're saying the ADL constructed all the theories.

Fresh fruit for rotting vegetables.

i use my own ears, eyes, nose and mouth to ferret out the FACT, that 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB, regardless of politics, religion and 'theory'.

it's the (metaphorical) particles in the (metaphorical) settling dust that point fingers at the REAL perps.

In other words you don't have a shread of proof...just particles, Kinda like that Russel Crowe character in "A Beautiful Mind."

"the lady doth protest too much, methinks".

No Billy, I do research... research from BOTH sides of the arguement, and the scales are being tipped, the curtain drawn back.

I ask: How did WTC7 collapse completely vertically inside 7 seconds ike a perfect demolition job?

GwionX's answer is: Eric Hufschmid hates Jews.

I ask: How did pools of molten steel get below the rubble as much as 6 weeks after the collapse when fuel can not melt steel?

GwionX's answer is: Thierry Meyssan is a dumb Frenchman

I ask: How come witnesses heard explosions in the basement BEFORE the planes hit?

GwionX's answer is: Christopher Bollyn had a "Freak-out episode."

Originally posted by GwionX
Why would you blindly trust and believe these people

First and foremost, I don't follow anyone, be it Bollyn or any so called experts.

Originally posted by GwionX
as being accurate over hundreds of more qualified experts in investigation, engineering, demolition, foriensics, et.al.?

Because NONE of them wants to talk about WTC7, the molten steel, the cell phone calls being impossible from a jet and because their retarded "pancake theory" is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

Originally posted by AcesInTheHole
Ok its your right to believe the official 9/11 story, and thats fine. I personally don't. But at least research the topic for awhile before coming to that conclusion. I'm sick of how people just dont want anything to do with it no matter whats the truth. Many people i talk to just don't care, and believe the country is goin down the tubes but there is nothing they can do about it.

I get the feeling that people are turning into zombies, people only care about buying products that are fashonable and expensive and being one of the crowd. I also believe this is done by design, so that the elite can just watch the proles go into a catatonic state.

Any helpful tips on waking up the zombies that don't care about anything? Maybe I should just move on to the next person, but no matter which side of the story you believe you should research the subject extensively, so you can intelligently debate it.

Even worse...times are coming when it will be dangerous for you to say what you know...
Just think about it: billions and billions of dollars have been used to brainwash people. Now you want to turn that around with your own will?

Originally posted by swimmer
Just think about it: billions and billions of dollars have been used to brainwash people. Now you want to turn that around with your own will?

Unite the CT´s, the Truth Movement, Hollywood and the few politicians which have expressed "doubts".

This is the only way a new and independent investigation will be made. Someone who is recognised and known needs to lead the way in this unification.

The only way. If you wish to change public opinion you are probably looking at a Hollywood picture based on real facts which yet needs to be made.

To add to this:

David McGowan´s call to action
At the risk of offending anyone out there, I really need to ask a question here: what the hell is the matter with you people? And by “you people,” I don’t mean specifically the regular readers of these newsletters, but rather the American people in general. So to all you John and Jane Q. Publics out there, let me rephrase the question: what the hell does it take to get a reaction out of you?

I realize, of course, that there has been a serious dumbing-down of American society and culture over the years. And I realize that government operatives have virtually complete control over the flow of information, so that virtually every thing you read, hear or see is, at best, an approximation of reality. And I realize that you have been systematically conditioned, over the course of many decades, to revere the institutions of this society – the very same institutions whose spokesmen are routinely called upon to serve you up a nice steaming platter of lies.

Source (Fintan)

Someone like McGowan could lead, but he is not to well known I guess. Maybe Alex Jones if he cleans up his act.

Originally posted by PepeLapew
their retarded "pancake theory" is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

Exactly why is it such a ridiculous thing in your opinion? What do you base that upon? Saying statements such as that do not add much to the debate without giving your reasons for them.