Why wouldnt aliens be like us? VIOLENT

I read alot of posts here, and one thing that seems to be a prevalant theory is that aliens are benevolent biengs. That some how intelligence = peace and love towards each other.

Saing things like they are so advanced that they are past warfare and the like seems kinda silly to me.

How does a culture become smart enough to end warfare? I dont think Hitler was a low inteligence individual, just had really sick ideas! How else do you get so many followers if your stupid?

And organized crime too, Granted not all of us are evil war mogering devils, but their are always the few, that seem to get a vast amount to follow.

I dont think we will ever eliminate war, crime, hatred no matter how advanced we get. And neither has ET.

Logically speaking its just not possible, Theirs always a few bad apples on the tree, Its natures way. So ya if you show me 10 different alien species their will be a few bad apples in each.

Perhaps it is because of mutually assured destruction.

If there are a variety of alien races, it would stand to reason that one or more of those races is much more advanced than your race.

If you blunder about the galaxy and try to blast anything that you don't agree with, you'd need to worry about one of the more advanced races viewing you as a threat to the universe and somehow decideing to limit your access to the stars. I'm thinking that when they chose to limit your access to the stars it could get really ugly for your homeworld.

Given the time it would take to develop interstellar space travel, probably 10,000 + years of civilization.It almost would be a certainty that they would have peace with one another otherwise they would have destroyed their world. Look what we have gotten ourselves into in 2- 4000 years.

But this is my whole point, how do you get rid of the few (or thosands) of bad apples? It just doesnt seem feasable to me. Just adding time to the evolutionary clock seems a bit doubtfull. Our world ethics arent getting better their getting worse! And if you figure that all civilizations grow in numbers, this exponentioally adds to the problem! just like here on earth!

The more people/biengs you have the more opinionated the world/civilization becomes. Unless they have found a way to zombify their race into one minded thinking, I dont see th8is as a reality!

And the above statement, Isnt that a little NWO sounding to you all? Wich is better I ask you?

Ive never bought into the whole aliens are benevolent enlightened beings coming to spread fluffy bunnies and rainbows crap. Thats just new Age babble.

The truth is, no one really knows what motivates the aliens, what they are really like at home, and why they are here. The actual compelling evidence in UFO history tends to suggest a more neutral to slightly not-so-nice agenda for being here. After all, taking people from their environment against their will, subjecting them to unpleasant, painful and psychologically devestating experiments and tests, denying them the memory, and showing no real concern for the welfare of their captives is remeniscnet of the cold, detatched mindset of scientists experimenting on lab rats.

This is of course in reference to alien abductions. In general, UFOs that don't involve any sort of contact with the occupants, the UFO's tend to display more neutral behavior, though there are incidents rather disturbing that suggest otherwise, like the Kinross case or valentich disappearance.

I also do not buy the reasoning that if a race is so advanced technologically, they must be peaceful and spiritually evolved. Not necessarily true. They could have achieved technological supremecy by wiping out competition or enslaving it, or developed the tech first in a sort of arms race, and then used it to dominate their enemies. Also, if humanity is anything to go by, technological advancement heralds spiritual belief and decline.

Of course, I'm not claiming to know the E.T. motives or personality. Im simply stating what seems likely given the harder UFO evidence. I disregard "evidence" that people claim was channeled or brought to them Adamski style by jet setting aliens from venus.

right this whole "peace comes with knoledge" is a load of crap!

Their have been so many evil genuses in our history, that it just isnt a valid point.

To state that enlightenment is a form of evolution is just ridiculus. All the facts seem to point to evolution leads to more evil and more self centerment, not the opposite. So I see theories such as "independance day" the movie more viable, than not.

Why havent they wiped us uot yet?? Maybe their world isnt out of oil yet!

If we had interstellar means of travell, and our world was on the brink of extinction, would we not take over a less evolved race's planet for survival??

That is the very basis of our instincts, Survival! Or would we as a collective group just sit back and die? I doubt it, we all have to eat right, how many of you are vegetarians? IM not, its all relative!

How does a culture become smart enough to end warfare? I dont think Hitler was a low inteligence individual, just had really sick ideas! How else do you get so many followers if your stupid?

The level of intelligence has nothing to do with it. It is rather how society developed and how it is today. Hitler, for example, used the social instabillity of Germany to further his goal, and a good example of this is the first failed attempt to gain control of the country.

As for his "followers", well, every American doesn't follow Bush, do they? When Germany fell into Nazi hands, it wasn't very much the people could do - they had been given a "new idea" of a great, new perfect Germany that would become the new superpower, just like Soviet Union's idea of a future utopia, and just like the US government used 9/11.

And organized crime too, Granted not all of us are evil war mogering devils, but their are always the few, that seem to get a vast amount to follow.

Again, organized crime depends on how society is built. If you are born to a poor family, you won't go to the best school, thus not get good grades and end up on the street. What you might be is a good businessman, a natural, and because you can't work in a publicly known corporation, you start to work for a gang or underground organization.

On the other hand, if society is built similarly to an utopia, there is no need for money, thus no need for crime (since there are nothing of value).

This all depends on their politics. Maybe they have evolved like us? Maybe big business is their politics, maybe they follow some kind of religion?

I dont think we will ever eliminate war, crime, hatred no matter how advanced we get. And neither has ET.

This is a common misconception. "Evil" isn't coded into our genes. What we need to change is society. Maybe hate won't be eliminated, but war certainly can.

Logically speaking its just not possible, Theirs always a few bad apples on the tree, Its natures way.

Have you ever seen nature waging wars for years? Or building countries, developing an economy and property? Nature's big fights are about territory and mainly about reproduction. We humans have developed intelligence that controls this behaviour. The big crimes going on in society today are fights over who owns what, and the person with most money very often wins such battles.

You ask questions like "Why haven't they wiped us out yet?" How would you even know how "they" operate in the first place? Maybe every race that travels through space is governed by someone or something. The same reason that most countries on Earth are scared of nuking another country because a lot of the other countries will most likely blow their ass up for their actions. It's possible that there are laws or something and you can't just go around space killing off whole civilizations.

There's lots of possible reasons why they haven't wiped us out yet.

Also we don't know much about other civilizations in space if they really are there. For all we know there could be a whole network of millions of civilizations on planets that have existed for a billion years. Who knows. We can't even really comprehend how beings would be that have been around for that long. I'm kinda on the fence, but more on the side that advanced races are more benevolent...

You ask questions like "Why haven't they wiped us out yet?" How would you even know how "they" operate in the first place?

I dont pretend too, its a hypothetical statement

Maybe every race that travels through space is governed by someone or something.

As are we, whats your point here?

I'm kinda on the fence, but more on the side that advanced races are more benevolent...

WHY? This is the whole point!

As for his "followers", well, every American doesn't follow Bush, do they? When Germany fell into Nazi hands, it wasn't very much the people could do - they had been given a "new idea" of a great, new perfect Germany that would become the new superpower, just like Soviet Union's idea of a future utopia, and just like the US government used 9/11.

I somehow felt that this would get linked to 9/11, Bush may have flown the planes him self!! oh well different board for this.

Again, organized crime depends on how society is built. If you are born to a poor family, you won't go to the best school, thus not get good grades and end up on the street. What you might be is a good businessman, a natural, and because you can't work in a publicly known corporation, you start to work for a gang or underground organization.

So their are only rich aliens?? that doesnt work on a socialist or capitalist scale!!??

Have you ever seen nature waging wars for years?

Yes I have, Its called the food chain!! Have you ever seen a goldfish eat a shark??

Originally posted by redseal
I read alot of posts here, and one thing that seems to be a prevalant theory is that aliens are benevolent biengs. That some how intelligence = peace and love towards each other.

Saing things like they are so advanced that they are past warfare and the like seems kinda silly to me.

How does a culture become smart enough to end warfare? I dont think Hitler was a low inteligence individual, just had really sick ideas! How else do you get so many followers if your stupid?

And organized crime too, Granted not all of us are evil war mogering devils, but their are always the few, that seem to get a vast amount to follow.

I dont think we will ever eliminate war, crime, hatred no matter how advanced we get. And neither has ET.

Logically speaking its just not possible, Theirs always a few bad apples on the tree, Its natures way. So ya if you show me 10 different alien species their will be a few bad apples in each.

Aliens aren't human so why would they be violent?

[edit on 6-4-2007 by Zhayne]

My thought on this is ther are good and bad aliens.I can't see good and evil just being on earth.I just hope I never see any evil ones

Originally posted by redseal
Logically speaking its just not possible, Theirs always a few bad apples on the tree, Its natures way. So ya if you show me 10 different alien species their will be a few bad apples in each.

bad apples don't evolve... this is a strict principle of the law of karma. to cross the bounds of quantum space and/or time (refuting the laws of physical space) a species must cross a threshold of evolution that an evil race would never be allowed to reach. the perennial fate of all evil civilizations is an inevitable self destruction leading to either complete annihilation or crippled evolution in biodomes or underground(what happened to the Grays). you can continue to live in hollywood and believe that aliens are hostile but think about it, wouldn't they have already acted out violently? especially if they were after natural resources, colonization or enslavement wouldn't they have acted back in the 50's when we were just getting our chops wet with Nuclear weapons and hi-tech artillery? just my two penniez


[edit on 7-4-2007 by kronos11]

you have a good point. But you can also think like this, they do have knowledge that we cant imagene. Or you can always get rid of bad apples. You know what I mean. BUt what you said is a good point 2. We just cant know for sure. Until we meet them.

Redseal Said:
"Why wouldnt aliens be like us? VIOLENT
I read alot of posts here, and one thing that seems to be a prevalant theory is that aliens are benevolent biengs. That some how intelligence = peace and love towards each other.
Saing things like they are so advanced that they are past warfare and the like seems kinda silly to me. "

Reply to Redseal - In all sincerity and with kindness I tell you it seems silly to you because simply because of limited experience. There realy are "separate realities" and levels of being above us. It is said that a lower level cannot apprehend or see someone at a higher spiritual level. Think of children's inability to understand the adult world. This applies on many levels.

ET's are higher beings than us. They couldn not be higer beings via violence, or they probably wouldnt exist. Anyway, that's the truth of the matter.

You're just not there yet... and you won't ever be if you don't strive for it.
But you're not uncool or 'less-than' for your level of being. Fellow travelers will not judge you for it. The experienced ones remember having been where you are.

And how exactly do you know that ETs are "higher" beings?

.It almost would be a certainty that they would have peace with one another otherwise they would have destroyed their world. Look what we have gotten ourselves into in 2- 4000 years.

Not necessarily, war hasn't stopped humans from developping technology, hell it catalysed it.

Yes I have, Its called the food chain!! Have you ever seen a goldfish eat a shark??

Since goldfish don't live in the sea

My thought on this is ther are good and bad aliens.I can't see good and evil just being on earth.I just hope I never see any evil ones

nothing is black or white!

ET's are higher beings than us. They couldn not be higer beings via violence, or they probably wouldnt exist. Anyway, that's the truth of the matter.

I'm a level 60 being what about you? come on were not in world of warcraft...

I agree with Skadi_the_evil_elf, we don't know.

[edit on 7-4-2007 by DarkSide]

I somehow felt that this would get linked to 9/11, Bush may have flown the planes him self!! oh well different board for this.

9/11 doesn't matter in this discussion. I'm saying that leaders can use situations to gain "followers". Germany didn't wake up one day in 1933 and decided to follow Hitler out of the blue.

So their are only rich aliens?? that doesnt work on a socialist or capitalist scale!!??

It is possible that the aliens still have their form of capitalism, thus they have crime and war as we have today. There can't be just "rich" aliens without there being "poor" aliens. At least with human political understanding.

Yes I have, Its called the food chain!! Have you ever seen a goldfish eat a shark??

So when we eat meat or fish, we are according to you, waging war against fish and other animals?

They couldn not be higer beings via violence, or they probably wouldnt exist.

Why not? Maybe these aliens have found a way to be evil and be "higher" at the same time?

Originally posted by redseal
seems to be a prevalant theory is that aliens are benevolent biengs.

I suggest someone take a poll.

Are aliens friendly or not?
Do aliens have some agenda or are they just passing through?
Do aliens have a friendly or non friendly agenda?

Aliens work painful experiments on humans.

Aliens work in the shadows and do not show themselves.

Aliens PROBABLY have some sort of agreement worked out with government officials that we don't know about. That is subversive.

Aliens ARE NOT friendly.

Someone make an ATS poll and run it. I doubt that the majority of people here think that aliens are friendly. If the poll comes out that way, I'd be very surprised.

Well I'm pretty confidant that the whole predator vs. prey concept is probably universal in regards to lifeforms. Prey/herd animals don't develop significant intelligence and teamworking abilities. Pack hunting animals develop these. Look at Chimpanzees with their hunting parties, not to mention they make small spears now and use rocks to smash things. The spears are used specifically to hunt a small animal that lives inside tree trunks. Then look at humans, the very concept of war evolved from hunting. Hunting parties evolved into War parties. We hunted not only animals, but each other.

In 12,000 years we perfected that ability to hunt to the point we can kill millions within minutes. I feel if another lifeform evolved sentience it would of been a predator animal. A pack hunting predator animal.

Those instincts would remain in them. The only way you could overcome them in my opinon would be the perfection of a powerful Totalitarian government that wiped out those who resisted and drugged, implanted, and engineered who was left into docile zombies. Thas not my idea of Utopia irregardless if you dress it up in New Age religious babble.

[edit on 7/4/07 by MikeboydUS]

That thought passed me to . And i look at it from a Human point ;
Imagine :

Humans reach Alpha Centuari somewhere around 2090. The Nasa/Esa anoucces to the world they have detected a intelligent technological settlement somewhere on a moon up there. I'm pretty sure that there has been an evolution proces on those beings to ! So what happens we do a flyby with a unmanned probe to analyze the moon . But suddenly a strange winged thing with 2 jetengines goes in pursuit of our probe. Thank god we where to fast for them. So what would humans do u guys think . Go back and kick their ass like never before , leave them there to develop their own Civ or (like i think it would be) Propose them a treaty and use them in any possible way we can think , claiming that they wil be far better of after we helped hem. In the same time we would strip the moon of everything we need and ever could need. After that we would move on to the next destination leaving a crippeld Civ. Maybe thats what happend here 500.000 years ago? Who knows?