Wal-Mart and Target Spy on Their Employees

Wal-Mart and Target Spy on Their Employees

www.alternet.org

It reads like a cold war thriller: The spy follows the suspects through several countries, ending up in Guatemala City, where he takes a room across the hall from his quarry. Finally, after four days of surveillance, including some patient ear-to-the-keyhole work, he is able to report back to headquarters that he has the goods on them. They're guilty!

We've always known that Wal-Mart is as big, in financial terms, as many sizable nations. It may even have begun to believe that is one, complete with its own laws, security agency, and espionage system.

(visit the link for the full news article)

What an interesting article.

Anybody who works or worked for Target or Wal-Mart have a story to share?

www.alternet.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

I read the article and nothing sounds out of the ordinary.

I have a VERY extensive security resume, to include loss prevention for some nationwide retail chains NOT listed in the article, and we always followed the same procedure about using the restroom.

Bottom line for most private security is if you think you can prove they stole, put them in handcuffs so they can’t hurt you or themselves. Once they are in handcuffs, no one but the police or EMS removes the cuffs. If they have to use the restroom, to bad. They should have relieved themselves before stealing. After all, are you (the security guard) going to risk a sexual harassment (or worse) charge for “fondling” them? If not security, who else is going to hold it for them? I have personally witnessed several detainees piss themselves, and there is just nothing you can do without risking liability in some form.

Originally posted by scooler1


What an interesting article.

Anybody who works or worked for Target or Wal-Mart have a story to share?

I worked at a Target in IL. during my college days years ago. It was a good place to work when i started but things went downhill after i was there about a year.

To make a long story short, i was basically moved from doing one job/area of the store to another without my consent. I was moved from doing a job i enjoyed to one i disliked. When asked why this happened i was not given a straight answer.

One day I rang up a transaction at the register and gave my girlfriend-at-the-time's little brother a store discount on some baseball cards -- apparently someone "saw" me do this and i got in trouble for it. I was surprised anyone paid that much attention - you had 1 supervisor overseeing about 15 lanes.... come on, now. I saved the kid maybe 80 cents, total. Shortly thereafter I learned from a coworker, who was a supervisor and a good friend, that i was being "watched" because management had reason to believe i was stealing. Now, I might've been a slacker sometimes, but i was definitely not a thief.

I also learned that my unwilling transfer to a different position was done so by upper store mangement to put me in a position they could "observe" me better. I asked questions - many questions to many mangers - to explain to me why I was moved and not doing the job i was hired for. But I never got straight answers aside from my supervisor-friend. My time there was made difficult. I was singled out, I was hassled if i had simple requests/questions, and my job was made unnecessarily stressful.

I had injured my knee pretty badly on one of my days off. I missed work for a couple months and had doctors orders to stay off my feet. I provided the company with a doctor's note. It was during this time I was terminated and was never told. I figured this out when i received a paycheck in the mail in the sum of all my unused vacation time.

Awesome, eh?

I understand that a certain amount of politics and favoritism come into play in the workplace. (unfortunately) Especially so in a retail environment. But my situation was just ridiculous.

Glad I'm not working in retail-land anymore...

Originally posted by horrorbiz
One day I rang up a transaction at the register and gave my girlfriend-at-the-time's little brother a store discount on some baseball cards -- apparently someone "saw" me do this and i got in trouble for it.

So you did steal, or rather, embezzle. Sounds like they had good reason to be watching you.

You are lucky they didn’t prosecute you. Even though it is such a small amount it is still a misdemeanor (in my state, anyway) and if had caught you, I would have prosecuted you as an example. I definitely would have fired you immediately.

Small amount or not, stealing is stealing.

Bottom line, corporations DO NOT have the right to interrogate. They have the right to hire and fire, period. There are paid professionals who are schooled in interogation and they are titled POLICE, FBI and so fourth. They are not titled SECURITY.

If these stories are true, then the security personal employed by these companies have a serious problem. If your employee says they did not steal, then you show them the video, or tell them that they were observed and fire them on the spot. 15 minutes tops!! You are security, nothing more, nothing less.

Handcuffs? For your safety and theirs? Please... call the cops you wannabe authorities.

Corporations and their security have NO RIGHT to detain anyone any longer than it takes the REAL police to arrive.

What a joke.

Detain my child for any period of time that exceeds the time to fire him/her and you and your company will have something to worry about.

Originally posted by nextguyinline
Bottom line, corporations DO NOT have the right to interrogate. They have the right to hire and fire, period.

Really? You have anything legal to back that up? Didn’t think so.

u are security, nothing more, nothing less.

Right. And in the state of Nevada, where I am from, you have to have a private patrolman license (VERY difficult to obtain) in order to work as security officer for hire. Among the powers delegated to a private patrolman is the power to not only detain a person for theft, but actually write them a summons in lieu of arrest. What that means is you don’t even have to call the police in order to send someone to court for shoplifting, trespassing, disturbing the peace or defrauding an innkeeper.

Handcuffs? For your safety and theirs? Please... call the cops you wannabe authorities.

wow, well that wasn’t necessary now was it? Don’t like being handcuffed by a rentacop then don’t commit a crime on PRIVATE PROPERTY. Simple as that.

Corporations and their security have NO RIGHT to detain anyone any longer than it takes the REAL police to arrive.

Again, you are simply wrong and you cannot prove otherwise. Someone better go tell all those bounty hunters out there that they are breaking the law. Give me a break. You should educate yourself before you speak to things you obviously know nothing of.

Detain my child for any period of time that exceeds the time to fire him/her and you and your company will have something to worry about.

What, you gonna go shoot them over it? Play fistycups? I encourage you to pick up a law book before you go off half cocked. Like I said, you are wrong. A citizen in the employ of a private corporation my detain a person (even if that means handcuffs) they have reasonable cause to believe has committed an illegal act. In most states it is referred to as a citizen's arrest or as an arrest by a private citizen.

Educate yourself.


Oh, and just in case you are wondering if I know what I am talking about I posses a degree in Criminal Justice with an emphasis on private security. I have worked as loss prevention for 3 companies, 2 of them nation wide retailers. I have also worked as the Director of Operations for a large private security firm, as a instructor and tactical advisor to a large police department, as the LT of Housing Authority for a major city and have served on the personal executive protection team of one of Forbes 10 richest people in the world. I can arrest you, charge you with a crime and send you to court for minor infractions without even calling the police, other than obtaining from them an event number for the report, all under the LVMPD SILA program. I can also run your ID and get all the information a police officer can, to include home address, SSN, DOB, licenses held, and wanted information. You would be surprised just how much a private citizen can do through the proper channels if you would just educate your self about the subject.

That life, however, is behind me.

I sell pools now. More money and just cant stand to be around pigs.





[edit on 7-4-2007 by cavscout]

That's my feeling too, nextguyinline. I found the part of the article where they detained the guy excessive.

Cavscout, it sounds like you are a real corporate lackey. Either you take your job too seriously or you are some wannabe cop or spy.

I agree with nextguy, if you have proof of wrong-doing then present it to the person and then fire them. Don't "interrogate" them for hours them make them write some bogus apology for what ever it is they allegedly did. To me, that sounds like they had no evidence but they singled out someone to take the fall. The "apology letter" was used as proof of wrong-doing only after it was coercied. It's too bad more young adults don't know their rights.

Originally posted by scooler1
Cavscout, it sounds like you are a real corporate lackey. Either you take your job too seriously or you are some wannabe cop or spy.

Actually, I am neither. I no longer work in security because I have a severe problem with authority and hate to be around cops because each and every one of them is an enemy to the constitution. I enlisted in the Army, went to Iraq, and took a bullet and a bomb (now 50% disabled) because I thought I was fighting for the constitution. The same constitution that every police officer in this nation wipes their backside (figuratively) with every day. I don’t want anything to do with pigs, thank you very much.

All that aside, the law is law and ignorance is ignorance, and you are both ignorant of the law no matter how wrong the law may be.

You assume much about me. Remember, there is a difference between knowing the law and supporting it. I just choose not to be a crap-house lawyer is all.

[edit on 7-4-2007 by cavscout]

Cavscout, our posts must have crossed because I missed your rebuttal to nextguy. Sorry for the disrespect. Either way, I do feel that some of the things that private security personnel do is misguided and a little over-the-top. I will definitely try do educate myself regarding this before my kids reach employment age.

And, I agree with you about cops. I recently had the chance to hang out with quite a few cops from my city's department in a social environment and it made me quite uneasy about those that are sworn to protect me.

Let's Please Try Not To Make This About Ourselves Or Each Other

After all, Wal-Mart and Target might be watching.

Unfortunately, many large corporations have taken it upon themselves to enforce the law.

Now, I've read all of these posts and can totally understand both sides of the argument.
I, at one point, was an undercover security for a major chain retailer and, where as we had the explicit power to detain and search a customer, it was very clear that we are not law enforcement, and once a suspect walks out of the doors, they were, for all intents and purposes, off limits to us.
Yes, we were encouraged to call the police, but it was seen as a judgment call on our part, especially because of the area we worked in (the police had way more important things to do than to constantly take statements from us about people that we'll never see again.)

Originally posted by cavscout
All that aside, the law is law and ignorance is ignorance, and you are both ignorant of the law no matter how wrong the law may be.

I do understand what you are saying. However, as citizens, ultimately, it is up to us (as voting members of a republic) to determine which laws are in need of servicing or being stricken all together. Many laws are dated and do not reflect the current state of society.

Yes, law is law, but as long as laws are considered absolute, then justice is just a fanciful fantasy.

The support of unjust laws is the same as support for a corrupt politician, or a broken system.

Now, I'm not saying that this is the case universally, but, for example (and this I'm sure is the classic example used in schools all over) :
The implications of someone stealing to feed their family and someone stealing for the sake of stealing are quite different (obviously).
What I'm saying is, is that each instance should be (but not necessarily is) judged on it's own merit.

Now, of course if someone is stealing from Target or Wal-Mart, it is unlikely (although, not impossible) that it is to support their family.

But it is the case these days, that these corporations act as though they are in position to create binding legislation in regards to theft/prosecution laws (my opinion of course) and, in all seriousness, the courts have more important matters to attend to (overall, I mean.)

Again, my opinion.

The whole sending someone to do old-world spying is new on me but the concept of spying overall is not. If you work for any sizable company chances are they log all your web surfing and check your emails as well. Some people get their panties in a twist over it, but those people tend to not grasp the concepts of information security at all because the biggest threat to any company in terms of computer security comes from within on the order of like 75% of the time.

The sad thing is that the kids who give a friend a discount on something minuscule get the book thrown at them while school staff misappropriate thousands of dollars for their own personal gain and nobody ever notices.

You sound like the typical pro-American.

However, gosh....You would prosecute someone for an 80c discount to a corporation that makes billions? What a sick joke.

Edit: To cavscout.

[edit on 7-4-2007 by All Seeing Guy]

I agree......
This Big Brother Thread IS Scary!
An 80 cent indiscretion.........

I am also wondering how long are you allowed to detain
someone against their will????

Corporations are not states and have no business trying to act like one. Security is one thing but behavior of this type is all together different. One of the most frightening thing about things like corporations are their attempts to control their employees lives. And in that context people will do things in their jobs that they would never consider in their private lives. Best Buy has their employees attend a mandatory pep rally every morning and march around the store behind a best buy flag. I mean give me a break. The whole corporate world for all its obsession on the bottom line seem totally divorced for reality. That is why I always work for small employers... the pay may not be as good but I will be damned if i sell my soul for a paycheck.

I worked at target and it sucked. They accused me of doing somehing someelse did so i got fired. I never liked target, well at least not the one i worked at, because the 2 security guards we racist (but thats a story for another day) When i worked there i was a minor, and i must say they have a habit of breaking child labor laws. BUT back to the topic. I think its kind of crazy that WALMART of all places is spying on its employees like they are enron or somethinf

Originally posted by All Seeing Guy
You sound like the typical pro-American.

:shk: that just sneeeeeeeeered right out of ya', didn't it?!



WalMart and Target are large corporations and therefore they make moves in order to protect themselves, and their bottom line, from employee pilfering, employees claiming to be working but are really surfing the internet, etc etc. They have a right to do so. They also have a
responsibility to follow the laws of the land in this regard.

That being said - the site was biased. It is a left wing site, with ads to 'reclaim the real president' - GORE of course etc etc. The radical left has chosen WalMart as it's whipping boy.

I'd like to see another site, with less bias, report the facts on this.
Then I can make a comment in regards to the behavior of WalMart and Target.

Originally posted by grover
Best Buy has their employees attend a mandatory pep rally every morning and march around the store behind a best buy flag. I mean give me a break.

That's really bad. Want another example of AWFUL?

Go eat at Fridays (or some other restaurant) and let them find out it's your birthday. They MAKE the employees gather around and sing you happy birthday. How freak'n stupid. The employees don't give a hoot that it's your birthday. And basically you are paying people to sing you happy birthday.

Pathetic eh???

[edit on 4/7/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by nextguyinline
Bottom line, corporations DO NOT have the right to interrogate. They have the right to hire and fire, period. There are paid professionals who are schooled in interogation and they are titled POLICE, FBI and so fourth. They are not titled SECURITY.

Actually they have the same rights as you and me. I can detain you, but if I do it without reason I have committed the tort of false imprisonment, and maybe assault or battery.

If these stories are true, then the security personal employed by these companies have a serious problem. If your employee says they did not steal, then you show them the video, or tell them that they were observed and fire them on the spot. 15 minutes tops!! You are security, nothing more, nothing less.

Again, there is legal recourse for someone who abuses this power.

Handcuffs? For your safety and theirs? Please... call the cops you wannabe authorities.

Again, they have the right to defend their stores. Just as you have the right to defend your home. You could do the same thing to a burglar.

Corporations and their security have NO RIGHT to detain anyone any longer than it takes the REAL police to arrive.

What a joke.

Detain my child for any period of time that exceeds the time to fire him/her and you and your company will have something to worry about.

That is not a matter of legal fact. Maybe it's bad policy, I dunno. But the fact is that people and corporations have a right to defend themselves against anyone who might wish to take advantage of them. This is not about whether one likes corporations or not.