UK captives tell of ill treatment

What Iran does and what US does and what any other countries for that matter do are not for the good of our planet i will admit that it's not just USA but USA is pretty bad.

The best side is peace, that's the wining side and that side does not materialize in a physical form so it's not a country you should root for.

Root for love for everyone and your self.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Originally posted by selfless

Wait so, are you saying no one was tortured at gitmo?

Is that what you are saying?

huh????

The good thing about messageboards is that you can reread what somebody wrote.

So reread it.

And reread what i said,

it simply meant that you basically said no one at gitmo was tortured which is faulse and your annoying little faces you use don't change that :0

[edit on 6-4-2007 by selfless]

Originally posted by Peyres
the big deal is that the detention was illegal, and the soldeirs were hostages and not POW's, so they were not allowed to be treated in that manner.

The Iranians also consistently claimed that they were treating them properly, and had the cheek to offer them gifts and suits at the end for the camera. The Iranians forced the soldiers to lie, and don't even get me started on the letters and the general treatment of Faye Turney.

Isn't it weird how the person who got the most public coverage during the whole event and was the most victimised by our media also happens to be the one who was treated the worst. Hmmmmmm i aint saying it didn't happen but it seems to be mighty fine and convenient coincodince.

Originally posted by SR
Doesn't mean it didn't happen though none of us where at the debrief's they got from the British Embassy and British Military.

Granted you are right we were not, but who would you believe someone who claims they will not enrich nuclear fuel one day and the next says we are are going too anyhow. This is an issue of creditably here and Iran has absolutely none that I can see.

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by SR
Doesn't mean it didn't happen though none of us where at the debrief's they got from the British Embassy and British Military.

Granted you are right we were not, but who would you believe someone who claims they will not enrich nuclear fuel one day and the next says we are are going too anyhow. This is an issue of creditably here and Iran has absolutely none that I can see.

I wouldn't either cause it works both ways as you've pointed out

So any chance of pictures with the UK captives in chains and with electrical charges on them?

How about naked pyramids and dogs attacking them?

Yeah, they were treated badly alright . . .

Originally posted by marg6043
So any chance of pictures with the UK captives in chains and with electrical charges on them?

How about naked pyramids and dogs attacking them?

Yeah, they were treated badly alright . . .

Why is that relevant here? No one here is defending Abu Ghirab. Don't we have an obligation to condemn these kinds of practices no matter where they happen?

I hope you're not giving Iran a pass here. No one gave the US a pass about their indiscretions, rightfully so.

Originally posted by Togetic

Why is that relevant here? No one here is defending Abu Ghirab. Don't we have an obligation to condemn these kinds of practices no matter where they happen?

I hope you're not giving Iran a pass here. No one gave the US a pass about their indiscretions, rightfully so.

BINGO! Finally, someone here has got the friggin point.

Abu Ghraib happened. It violated all sorts of laws and conventions. It was universally condemned. Even in the U.S.

The Iranians did to the UK captives what the US has constantly been condemned for doing in Gitmo. Where is the condemnation, eh?

Lets not be hypocritical here. If people are going to condemn the US for psychologically abusing and mistreating the prisoners at Gitmo, then by the same reasoning, Iran should be condemned for its behavior.

Torture and Ill-Treatment in Guantánamo Bay

* During investigations, I was threatened with rape, attacks on my family in Saudi Arabia, my daughter being kidnapped, and my murder - assassination - by their spies in the Middle East if I went back to Saudi Arabia.

* They went to a detainee and put his head in the toilet. The toilets in Camp Delta are iron, Turkish-style toilets and then they flushed his head down the toilet until he almost died. They went to a detainee and started beating his head against the toilet rim until he lost consciousness and he could not see for more than 10 hours.

* One detainee, called Abdul Aziz Al-Masri, was ill and was asleep in the hospital. These soldiers went and beat him very badly in the hospital in front of the doctors and nurses. His injuries were excessive and caused his spine to break. He is now hemiplegic. They are now trying to operate on him but he is refusing out of fear that they will play with his back and make it worse rather than make it better as their operations often do. These kinds of incidents happen often. They would make sending them to the detainees an excuse for incidents in which we would suffer extensive injuries, severe disfiguration and fractures as there was no one monitoring or following up their actions. Rather, their officers and officials gave them the orders.

* At the end of 2003, a major incident happened to me in the investigation room. The soldiers took me to the investigation room and the investigator - who I only ever saw on this one occasion - had a Koran in his hand when he entered the room. He put it on the table and started talking and raving. Then he asked some soldiers to come in so some soldiers came. This investigator had brought the American and Israeli flags in with him. He then ordered the soldiers to wrap the flags around me tightly and then he took the Koran, threw it on the floor and damaged it with his shoe. Then he exposed his penis and urinated on it. He said a lot of things to me, such as, "this is a holy war between the star of David and the cross against the crescent" and "the whole world will submit to us and if any one doesn't submit to us.

Camp 5

* This stage finished when they finished building Camp 5 which was opened on 25 May 2004. I went into this new camp to start a new stage of misery, privation, humiliation and distress. There was an order to move me to Camp 5 for me to finish off the rest of my days in solitary isolation there. All the cells in Camp 5 were isolation cells and the whole building was made entirely of pre-cast concrete.

* I return now to my story. In March 2005, I met the lawyer who had taken on my case. I was telling him about the torture, violations and assaults I had faced and I do not know if they were spying on us. When the lawyer left, a soldier came and he had put on the military [illegible] and he was angry. He said, "it's best that you forget everything that's happened to you and don't mention it again to anyone if you want to stay safe."

* My state of health has become very poor recently. I fall and faint nearly every day. On 12 June 2005, in the evening, when my evening meal was brought to me, there was a dead scorpion on the plate. When I ate a little and saw the scorpion, I gave the food back to the soldier and showed him the scorpion. On that same night, in the same meal, a Tunisian brother called Hecham was also given a plate of food with a dead scorpion on it. Since the day that they threatened until now, I have been removing insects and dung beetles from the food and showing it to the soldier who then says, do you want another plate?

* Today is the end of the second week and the strike is still continuing. We have been in Cuba for nearly four years, during which time we have not faced any trial or charges. We are also on hunger strike because of the medical abuse and neglect we face and because they prevent us from learning about our religion and about religious issues. Two days ago, while I was writing these memoirs, I became really ill; I fell and was taken to the hospital. I spent two days there and then they brought me back here. Here I am now; as I try to write the last page of my memoirs, I am in a terrible state.

* I would thus like to point out that NOT all of the soldiers in Guantánamo tortured and oppressed us. There were some soldiers who treated us humanely, some of them would cry because of what was happening to us and were embarrassed by the style of management at the camp and even by the American government, their lack of justice and oppression of us. To give an example, when I was in Camp India in Camp Delta and I was being tortured, an Afro-American came to me. He said sorry to me and gave me a cup of hot chocolate and some sweet biscuits. When I thanked him, he said, "I don't want your thanks. I want you to know that we are not all bad and we think differently". When I was talking to a soldier and I told him what happened to me, he cried and had tears in his eyes. He was clearly moved. He said sorry to me about what had happened to me and he also offered me some food. These are examples to show the reader that there are some soldiers who have humanity, irrespective of their race, gender or faith.





Source www.truthout.org...

Again, this thread is not about Guantanamo Bay or Abu Ghirab or anything else. What is the purpose of the previous post? All it does is let Iran go scot-free for no reason.

Let's figure out what happened in Guantanamo. Let's get to the bottom of Abu Ghirab.

But let's not give Iran a pass.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Originally posted by Togetic

Why is that relevant here? No one here is defending Abu Ghirab. Don't we have an obligation to condemn these kinds of practices no matter where they happen?

I hope you're not giving Iran a pass here. No one gave the US a pass about their indiscretions, rightfully so.

BINGO! Finally, someone here has got the friggin point.

No, it's you guys who didn't get the point marg was trying to make.

She or he was saying that if you think what happened to the British soldiers were mistreatment then you have no idea what mistreatment really is.

Originally posted by selfless

And reread what i said,

it simply meant that you basically said no one at gitmo was tortured which is faulse and your annoying little faces you use don't change that :0

[edit on 6-4-2007 by selfless]

Where did I basically say nobody at gitmo was tortured? I actually said I don't agree how the US treats prisoners at Gitmo/

Why are you making up things to vilify me .

OK guys, I understand that it's easy to pick at members that supported or denied what happened at Gitmo et. all. but find this to be bad, that's not the topic though. Let's keep to it please.

Originally posted by Togetic
Again, this thread is not about Guantanamo Bay or Abu Ghirab or anything else. What is the purpose of the previous post? All it does is let Iran go scot-free for no reason.

Let's figure out what happened in Guantanamo. Let's get to the bottom of Abu Ghirab.

But let's not give Iran a pass.

No, What Iran does is not good either but let's not be hypocrites either and think the British were not treated well under the circumstances...

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Originally posted by selfless

And reread what i said,

it simply meant that you basically said no one at gitmo was tortured which is faulse and your annoying little faces you use don't change that :0

[edit on 6-4-2007 by selfless]

Where did I basically say nobody at gitmo was tortured? I actually said I don't agree how the US treats prisoners at Gitmo/

Why are you making up things to vilify me

.

I'm sorry i misunderstood what you were saying, it really looked to me like you were saying that no one at Gitmo were being tortured.

My bad.

Originally posted by intrepid
OK guys, I understand that it's easy to pick at members that supported or denied what happened at Gitmo et. all. but find this to be bad, that's not the topic though. Let's keep to it please.

hello my friend, i have to disagree with that.

Think about it, everything is related and the subject of this thread is mistreatment of the British soldiers and well since the whole Iran and Iraq and US issue is related, it's all very much so on topic.

I think so anyways.

Just thought I would add this surprising development,

Iran says the PC was staged

Iran claims British news conference was staged
Iran is claiming this morning that a news conference by 15 freed British sailors and marines was staged, to cover up their illegal entry into its territory. ...

IF it was stagged (this is a hypothetical question so I don't want to see any replies like "brittain would never" and such) what could brittain hope to get out of this? What could they be playing on?

Regards,
Maestro

First comment - to those people saying that Iran ignores UN sanctions, that's hardly condemning, considering that the US ignores UN sanctions and policies, and regularly is the only hold out on otherwise unanimous votes.

Secondly, if you were under constant threat by say, a corrupt policeman. Every day, he came over to your house, held a gun to your head and said "One day, one day I'm going to fire"..

Would you (a) sit around meekly waiting for the day or (b) go buy your own gun?

With the constant threat of US/UK attacks on Iran, surely the only option they have is actually to continue nuclear proliferation, in the hope that by becoming a nuclear power, they have some degree of safety. This is a situation in which neither side has clean hands, so it is useless to condemn either one or the other as being "the bad guys who did this"..

Should the UK personnel have been captured? Probably not. Should they have been in Iranian waters? Probably not, if they were. Should they have been in Iraqi waters? Probably not. The situation in iraq is a massive blunder, and by now escalating conflict and tensions with Iran, the situation only gets worse, not better.


If we are to cite UN resolutions and sanctions, surely they should be applied across the board?.

The concept of a great freedom surely holds all men and women accountable and responsible for their actions, from the lowest and poorest to the richest and most powerful. Just "because we are american, and the ultimate superpower, and no-one can really oppose us" is NOT justification. Nor is "protecting our citizens from terrorism by engaging in prophylactic war".. War in Iraq makes US citizens less safe, not more so.

If you ever have questions about the morality of the US versus any other nation on earth, consider that the only nation to vote against the UN charter on the rights of a child was the US.

The US being the only nation that allows execution of children, specifically prohibited in that charter.

We will never know truly what happened in many situations, including that of these captives, but to assume that Iran is lying and the UK is telling the truth, solely because of who they are is to ignore centuries of history.

Originally posted by Xfile

Originally posted by AMANNAMEDQUEST
They are treated better than captives at Gitmo. I am sure it was scary, but they were not physically harmed.

[edit on 6-4-2007 by AMANNAMEDQUEST]

Prisoners at gitmo do not get there for no reason.if they havnt as yet supported beheadist terrorists they have assisted in blowin up innocent men/women children or proof of there of.please keep your dumb ass propaganda to your barbarian supporters here at ats,thank you

the comment which drove me from further reading this thread. 1. deserves a warn 2. It depresses me to see such a blind ignorant hate spewed on ATS.

Grouping everyone at Gitmo into one group. Calling what we believe, when it disagrees with what he believes, is "dumb ass propaganda". I can do nothing but shake my head and walk away from this thread.