UK captives tell of ill treatment

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

But it is much easier for you to sit on your ass and spout BS online.

Hear Hear, truer words were never said.

Even more disgraceful than the Iranians treatment of the British marines is the comments coming from the "arm chair heroes" who would have done so much better in the same situation.

Pokey Oats

I must admit. Not all of them gave into Irans order. I didn't see all of the capture sailors admit they were in Iranian waters.

from Wikipedia:

On October 26, 1967, McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by an anti-aircraft missile, landing in Truc Bach Lake. He broke both arms and a leg after ejecting from his plane. After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around him, spat on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was then tortured by Vietnamese soldiers, who bayonetted him in his left foot and groin. His shoulder was crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.[10]

Once McCain arrived at the Hanoi Hilton, he was placed in a cell and interrogated daily. When McCain refused to provide any information to his captors, he was beaten until he lost consciousness.[11]

When the North Vietnamese discovered his father was the Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command, (CINCPAC), commander of all U.S. forces in Vietnam, he was offered a chance to return home. McCain turned down the offer of repatriation
McCain signed an anti-American propaganda message which was written in Vietnamese, but only as a result of rigorous and brutal torture methods, which to this day have left him incapable of raising his arms above his head. According to McCain, signing the propaganda message is something he most regrets during his time as a POW. After McCain signed the statement, the Vietnamese decided they could not use it. They tried to force him to sign a second statement, and this time he refused. He received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal.[13]

McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five-and-a-half years, mostly in the infamous Hanoi Hilton, and was finally released from captivity in 1973, having been a POW for almost an extra five years due to his earlier refusal to accept an out of turn repatriation offer


Not everyone is a hero...
Don't you think that at least one shoold have been...?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
What a misleading title shots.

Illtreatment?

Sorry old chap if you would check the link you would find the headline used is that of the BBC so if you have a problem with it as I suspected someone would, kindly take it up with them. You see I orignaly submitted the thread with my own title but changed it back to what the BBC used just to avoid accusations like yours which I expected.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Oh...you should forgive them for wanting to go home and see their family and children and not be stuck in Iran for 7 years or worse.

I'd like to see what you would do.

But it is much easier for you to sit on your ass and spout BS online.

Of course we can all be empathitic to their circumstances. Whats your point? That doesn't mean it's OK to demean their country and countrymen or glorify their treatment at the hands of these fundamentalists.

Have you ever heard of a place known as, "Hanoi Hilton?" In your opinion, I presume, American POWs should have Jame Fonda'ed it? They didnt, in the face of real torture, and that's why they're called "heroes."

Im certain the Brittish have better examples of how to act as a prisoner in their recent history as well. Do Not call these Royal Marines and sailors heroes because they do Not qualify.

Since it's so easy for you to sit on your your ass and spout, it might interest you to know I am an Army Vet. Trained as a Cav Scout in 3ACR at Ft Bliss during GW1. Training for desert warfare 256 days (and nights) per year shows a little more comittment to my country then my keyboard.


And yes, apparently you need to see an example of heroism to see the differance.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
[The British sailors are much different than the prisoners held at Gitmo and the other areas (most of them). Most people who are held are fighting against the US or are terrorists. These British soldiers weren't fighting against Iran nor endorsed the killing of Iranian citizens. So any mistreatment is purely unarguable mistreatment.

[edit on 6-4-2007 by RetinoidReceptor]

Half of the freakin people at Gitmo and Abu Gharib weren't fighting against us either!!!! They were picked up on a tip or at the wrong place at the wrong time - kind of like the UK prisoners.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Originally posted by Gatordone
The female in particular is a disgrace and IMO an example of why women shouldnt be allowed in combat roles. The men acted as cowards. Poor Admiral Nelson is spinning in his grave.

Oh...you should forgive them for wanting to go home and see their family and children and not be stuck in Iran for 7 years or worse.

I'd like to see what you would do.

But it is much easier for you to sit on your ass and spout BS online.

Could'nt have agreed more!

Gatordone, instead of slagging off these 15 Brits for thier actions, please feel free to inject some intelligent contribution to the matter, and let everyone here know how bravely you coped last time you were captured and interrorgated by foriegn forces? Go watch the full video of the sailors explaining thier actions under such circumstances, tell us all what you would do?

I for one would be exstatic to here such stories of bravery.

Did these sailors put thier country or colleauges at risk by revealing the very mimimal information that they gave? No.

When will some people here get it into thier gung-ho thick skulls that these sailors probably saved many lives by not reacting in an idiotic and reckless manner?

As the marines captain explained, they made thier weapons ready when they were approached by the Iranians, you don't make your weapons ready uless you at least preparing for action.....something a coward does'nt do.........however once it was realised within a few seconds that they were greatly outgunned, they used thier heads instead of thier weapons. Is that cowardly or sensible?

We really should hand all the military issues in our world to the armchair generals online, would all be sorted then in one hail of nukes, medals and cowboy hats! eh?

CX.

Let's hear from all the people who were comparing the way our sailors were treated in comparison to Guantanamo.

Blindfolded. Guns cocked in their presence. Kept apart. Paraded on national TV. People being sick, and the others thinking the guys throat was being cut.

Iran has treated the will of the United Nations with contempt. Russia, China, UK, USA... all of them.

Originally posted by CX
We really should hand all the military issues in our world to the armchair generals online, would all be sorted then in one hail of nukes, medals and cowboy hats! eh?

CX.

Or we could leave it in your hands. Of course they wouldn't be your hands for long, would they? You and yours would just give it all away in a hopeless attempt to appease our enemies. Proven again and again throughout history to completely bad policy.

After all, besides ending slavery, fascism, Nazism, and the brutal dictation of Saddam, what has war really accomplished?

Who cares about the United Nations..

Our soldiers were not ill treated, and the media hype surrounding this is just hot air. So they used a bit of mind games on them, so what? You think Iran is just going to obide by the wishes of the people who have plans to attack them?..

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

The prisoners at Gitmo are clothed, fed, and get medical care when needed (the Red Cross is even present).

Why yes, the red cross is present to make sure the prisoners who are being tortured don't die so they can torture them more afterwards.

Real compassionate.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

What about that exactly is mistreatment?
[edit on 6-4-2007 by Agit8dChop]

The prisoners at Gitmo are clothed, fed, and get medical care when needed (the Red Cross is even present).

Oh don't forget occasional denial of legal representation & tortured you know those little things that might matter. You can't really compare the two scenarios at all in fact its an insult to the innocent, a few of which we've seen (probably a lot more waiting as well). I need hip waders to get through your bs propaganda.

Instead we have 15 soldiers who at worst suffered bad food from the sound of it.

brill

Originally posted by Gatordone

Originally posted by CX
We really should hand all the military issues in our world to the armchair generals online, would all be sorted then in one hail of nukes, medals and cowboy hats! eh?

CX.

Or we could leave it in your hands. Of course they wouldn't be your hands for long, would they? You and yours would just give it all away in a hopeless attempt to appease our enemies. Proven again and again throughout history to completely bad policy.

After all, besides ending slavery, fascism, Nazism, and the brutal dictation of Saddam, what has war really accomplished?

Or you could go sign up yourself before passing judgement, that would be cool. I'm hazarding a guess that you have'nt done so as yet, as any decent soldier would'nt put these troops down like this.

CX.

Some of the accusations that these soldiers are being "soft" or "cowards" is driving me INSANE! The UK is not at war with Iran, and the sailors that were captured had no information that could comprise the security of the UK or the US.

Let's face it, Iran has a pretty screwed up government with screwed up religious and militant fundamentalists running it. If these sailors didn't cooperate with the Iranians and go on Iranian t.v. and "admit" they were in Iranian waters, they probably would have been tried in an Iranian court and sentenced to prison, or even death if tried on espionage charges. Now, what do you think would happen after that?

Probably an excuse for the US and UK declaring war on Iran.

Folks, wake up. We probably have avoided another disastrous full scale war in the middle east. For the time being at least....

To be honest, i have more respect and i think there is more honor in a person who does not slave them selves to the services of the army.

What is the army but a place where people are fighting for a cause that is not theirs in the back doors.

SLAVES.

So for everyone out there who did not enter the army for the reason that they don't want to kill for the sake of a dictatorship government.

Thank you for your contribution of REAL peace.

I see no signs of mistreatment. Scare tactics, definately. But that should be expected if you are taken as a prisoner, thought to be spies. The fact they did no physical harm to anyone to me says that they didn't go to far. They didn't do any sort of pyschological torture techniques either. They may have scared the soldiers out of their witts, but they didn't mistreat anyone.

If they caused physical harm or used some sort of torture like "simulated drowning" then that would be a different case. The worst thing I saw was blind folding them and cocking guns to scare the life out of them to confess. They didn't shoot anyone or injure anyone.

What surprises me is that anyone actually believed the crap the Iranian media was spouting in the first place, when these lads and lady were still in Iran's hands. I think Iran pulled off this whole publicity stunt not so much to influence the west (except for the extremely reality-challenged crowd, I highly doubt the West really believed the propoganda). I think they did it to score cool points and secure their standing on the Arab street, who are guillable to believe anything.

Regardless, in the end, these sailors are back home in one piece, eating steak pies and chips with family and friends. In the end, that was really the main objective.

And of course, anyone who actually believes the Iranian regime refrained from removing appendages or stoning these poor souls to death out of the kindness of their fanatic hearts is guilty of fatal stupidity. Iran did not torture or kill them because they knew should those guys be returned home in anything but one piece and good health, Tehran would have moved several steps closer to becoming a large smoking crater. In a country where adulterers are still stoned, women killed for being raped, I seriously doubt they had any moral reservations about doing horrible things to these troops. if it werent for the fact that Iran's future is dangling on a very thin line, these guys would not have been so lucky.

But Iran being Iran, now that the hostages have been released and their little three ring circus has ended, they are going back to what they normally do: sending bombs and supplies to the Iraqi terrorists so they can continue to stir up violence and blow people up to further gain control and power with the Shia there.

Since Iran couldn't torture and mutilate those British captives without a serious backlash and maybe military action, they went back to their normal way of killing British soldiers: roadside bombs planted by their stooges in Iraq.

Just Iran's way of saying Happy Easter from the Ayatollah, you fish and chips munching infidel scum!

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
Who cares about the United Nations..
Our soldiers were not ill treated, and the media hype surrounding this is just hot air.

I highly doubt the British sailors would agree with you on that statement. How would you feel if you one put a cocked gun to your head?

I just love this thread! Thank you Americans(and their supporters) for blatantly showing your double-standards when it comes to the treatment of prisoners. You Apologize for the Gitmo abuses yet Condemn these abuses. For propaganda purposes it doesn't get any better than that.

[edit on 6-4-2007 by sardion2000]

well i feel feel pretty damn good if someone who is capable of harsher treatment, and brutality were to only put a cocked gun to my head and let me play chess, and eat. Consider the alternative