finally real pics of NAZI UFOs!

ah yes I saw that Nazi UFO secrets of WWII youtube vid I thought it was very informative and you gotta love the cheesy production values

Hmm, I was reading the last couple of posts....
Its easy to understand that if the Germans had all this technology, we would have lost the war....though some things have to be taken into consideration.
-If most of this was perfected towards the end of the war(and maybe not quite ready either in design or number), they DID NOT want this stuff getting into allied hands(ultimately it did).
-Even though the Nazi's may have been brilliant scientists and organize very well, they made some stupid mistakes as far as battle plans(to quote Eddie Izzard, "...Hitler never played Risk as a kid..."), Sometimes they would rely too heavily on occult practices-things like swinging a pendulin on a map, and attacking/moving ships into areas of defense/offense that were pointless and/or fatal. Even without the "alien-like" Nazi superweapons, The Axis could have won the war-they just became too delusional.
-Maybe the Germans just went into hiding with the technology they had, hoping to build more war machines.
-They first went to the arctic in the early to late 1930's, who knows if the "master race" was primarily based in the Arctic, "closed off" from the "old world".
-its farfetched, but what if the Nazi's had developed space travel? Makes you a little sick that our Earth emessary was something spawned from Adolf Hitler(Keep in mind the first TV broadcast to reach Alpha Centauri was Adolf Hitler during the Olympics).

Supression of German technology could be some sort of phychological thing- to learn that the racists Nazi's had achieved so much could sway moral conscience.
Couple this with the fact that this technology in part is supposedly derived from ANCIENT races/texts/religions-this could have shattered the already battered faith of the allied countries after the war.(Or could have even gave more gas to the threatening New Age movements)

Or maybe we just looted everything, America that is, and all this is suppressed, and even hidden deeper by putting little green aliens in front of it. I mean, this stuff would destroy the oil industry.
(Personally I do believe in extradimensional/ extraterrestrial beings, though its more believable to me that the Nazi's/humans are causing many UFO sightings-regardless, I love this stuff! )







[edit on 21-3-2007 by jetflock]

[edit on 21-3-2007 by jetflock]

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by bothered
I'm just curious now, for the sake of curiosity. Does anyone have an opinion to offer why the Reich did NOT succeed for the predicted 1000 yrs.?

1000 Years is a aweful long time but i can tell you why Germany did not defeat Britain and the USSR by the end of 1941 and why the cold war was then with the USSR and not Germany...

I mean seriously, all this well-advanced equipment, and they fell, estimated to be within 2 years of the onset of the war.

I don't think anyone here i suggesting that Germany had the means to win the war by UFO in 1943 or 1944... As is evident by Hitlers antics he would probably have found a way to waste the advantage anyways which might be the case if anyone can prove these anti grav ( or whatever) platforms were in fact factual and deployable in any significant sense ( having five with 1 .50 cal machine gun each does not win wars) by say mid late 1943 when i believe Germany still had a marginal change to effect the strategic balance so as to draw out the whole thing for many more years.

From a very brief article on wikipedia.com:

...

Adolf Hitler then turned on the Soviet Union, launching a surprise attack (codenamed Operation Barbarossa) on June 22, 1941. Despite enormous gains, the invasion stalled on the outskirts of Moscow in late 1941, as the winter weather made further advances difficult. The Germans initiated another major offensive the following summer, but the attack bogged down in vicious urban fighting in Stalingrad. The Soviets later launched a massive encircling counterattack to force the surrender of the German Sixth Army at the Battle of Stalingrad (1942–43), decisively defeated the Axis at the Battle of Kursk, and broke the Siege of Leningrad. The Red Army then pursued the retreating Wehrmacht to Berlin, and won the street-by-street Battle of Berlin, as Hitler committed suicide in his underground bunker on April 30, 1945.

...

in which it states, as I recalled, the Axis stalled on the Western front. Rather than pull troops, they saved face and fought to the last man. Of the couple or so hundred that survived, were not enough to recover strength.

The might have hit too rapid of an expansion, I don't know. All I do know is, they lost.

They lost but only because Hitler were apparently ( my opinion as of around the mid 2006) trying so very hard.

Hitler was a dreamfitter's pipe, who still is instilled as a main causal. I'd dare say him more of a puppet than W.

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by bothered
I'm just curious now, for the sake of curiosity. Does anyone have an opinion to offer why the Reich did NOT succeed for the predicted 1000 yrs.?

1000 Years is a aweful long time but i can tell you why Germany did not defeat Britain and the USSR by the end of 1941 and why the cold war was then with the USSR and not Germany...

I mean seriously, all this well-advanced equipment, and they fell, estimated to be within 2 years of the onset of the war.

I don't think anyone here i suggesting that Germany had the means to win the war by UFO in 1943 or 1944... As is evident by Hitlers antics he would probably have found a way to waste the advantage anyways which might be the case if anyone can prove these anti grav ( or whatever) platforms were in fact factual and deployable in any significant sense ( having five with 1 .50 cal machine gun each does not win wars) by say mid late 1943 when i believe Germany still had a marginal change to effect the strategic balance so as to draw out the whole thing for many more years.

From a very brief article on wikipedia.com:

...

Adolf Hitler then turned on the Soviet Union, launching a surprise attack (codenamed Operation Barbarossa) on June 22, 1941. Despite enormous gains, the invasion stalled on the outskirts of Moscow in late 1941, as the winter weather made further advances difficult. The Germans initiated another major offensive the following summer, but the attack bogged down in vicious urban fighting in Stalingrad. The Soviets later launched a massive encircling counterattack to force the surrender of the German Sixth Army at the Battle of Stalingrad (1942–43), decisively defeated the Axis at the Battle of Kursk, and broke the Siege of Leningrad. The Red Army then pursued the retreating Wehrmacht to Berlin, and won the street-by-street Battle of Berlin, as Hitler committed suicide in his underground bunker on April 30, 1945.

...

in which it states, as I recalled, the Axis stalled on the Western front. Rather than pull troops, they saved face and fought to the last man. Of the couple or so hundred that survived, were not enough to recover strength.

The might have hit too rapid of an expansion, I don't know. All I do know is, they lost.

They lost but only because Hitler were apparently ( my opinion as of around the mid 2006) trying so very hard.

Hitler was a dreamfitter's pipe, who still is instilled as a main causal. I'd dare say him more of a puppet than W.

Originally posted by bothered

Adolf Hitler then turned on the Soviet Union, launching a surprise attack (codenamed Operation Barbarossa) on June 22, 1941. Despite enormous gains, the invasion stalled on the outskirts of Moscow in late 1941,

After Hitler basically halted the advance on Moscow at the end of July diverting forces away to chase down 'strategic resources' ( well basically) while the fast mass of army group center sat mostly still for the following two months. After this 2 month 'resting period' ( as some western historians have deluded themselves into believing) in which the USSR had so much time to rebuild defenses in front of Moscow ( there were nothing there two months earlier) the German army still crushed the defenses and reached the outskirts of Moscow. If Hitler had been trying to win the war in the East it would have been over for all practically purposes by the end of August or September 1941.

as the winter weather made further advances difficult. The Germans initiated another major offensive the following summer, but the attack bogged down in vicious urban fighting in Stalingrad.

Moscow could have been captured long before winter started and then there could not be a Stalingrad or really any other 'grad's.

The Soviets later launched a massive encircling counterattack to force the surrender of the German Sixth Army at the Battle of Stalingrad (1942–43),

If it's armored elements were not away fighting elsewhere i doubt the Stalingrad pocket could have been contained anyways but it's a largely pointless discussion as the war should and could have been won a year earlier.

decisively defeated the Axis at the Battle of Kursk, and broke the Siege of Leningrad.

The battle of Kursk was quite the disaster for the USSR but by that time they were used to disasters and they were attacking elsewhere which drew away the German armored forces and prevented them from breaking trough and once again creating a great pocket

The Red Army then pursued the retreating Wehrmacht to Berlin, and won the street-by-street Battle of Berlin, as Hitler committed suicide in his underground bunker on April 30, 1945.

It's not that i do not appreciate what is being done by the wikipedians but they do not know it all and a pursuit that takes two years costing millions of casualties is hardly to be described in this way!

in which it states, as I recalled, the Axis stalled on the Western front. Rather than pull troops, they saved face and fought to the last man. Of the couple or so hundred that survived, were not enough to recover strength.

They did not stall and simply halted due to in-fighting in the OKH and the conflicting orders they were receiving. Hitler's decision to give the stand 'wherever' order were probably the correct one in my opinion but it's hard to forgive considering the victory he threw away mere months earlier. Apparently he did not want Germany to win or lose but simply to suffer as much as he could manage for them.

Hitler was a dreamfitter's pipe, who still is instilled as a main causal. I'd dare say him more of a puppet than W.

Might be a ( gangster?) puppet but comparing him to W must be considered a insult to him by and all.

Stellar

Originally posted by jetflock
Even though the Nazi's may have been brilliant scientists and organize very well, they made some stupid mistakes as far as battle plans(to quote Eddie Izzard, "...Hitler never played Risk as a kid..."),

Stupid mistakes there might have been but they had every change to win the war by August 1941 so whatever the mistakes good rock solid planning did in fact take place.The planning was so good and well reasoned that Hitler had to Intervene to first destroy the Kriegsmarine ( Invasion of Norway) then to let the British armed forces ( how they would have fared in the ME without those trained men is any one's guess considering just how badly they did with trained men) escape largely intact at Dunkirk and then to in the end let the SU off the hook when it was down and out by mid July of 1941.

Sometimes they would rely too heavily on occult practices-things like swinging a pendulin on a map, and attacking/moving ships into areas of defense/offense that were pointless and/or fatal

As far as i know strategic decisions were not made based on such practices ( they were too well thought out and enacted for the most part) but they were heavily involved in the occult. Feel free to give us some additional reading material...

Even without the "alien-like" Nazi superweapons, The Axis could have won the war-they just became too delusional.

However delusional you might think they were they had the war won as good as won by Mid July 1941.

-Maybe the Germans just went into hiding with the technology they had, hoping to build more war machines.
-They first went to the arctic in the early to late 1930's, who knows if the "master race" was primarily based in the Arctic, "closed off" from the "old world".

I have always found that Admiral's 'suicide' to be quite interesting to say nothing of the fact that it happened by means of supposedly jumping from the third floor of a insane asylum... How many Admirals end up in such?

-its farfetched, but what if the Nazi's had developed space travel? Makes you a little sick that our Earth emessary was something spawned from Adolf Hitler(Keep in mind the first TV broadcast to reach Alpha Centauri was Adolf Hitler during the Olympics).

It's frequently joked that Von Braun was aiming for the moon but hit London , repeatedly, instead...

Supression of German technology could be some sort of phychological thing- to learn that the racists Nazi's had achieved so much could sway moral conscience.

If one is a racist pig, just waiting for additional 'proof', almost anything will do.

Couple this with the fact that this technology in part is supposedly derived from ANCIENT races/texts/religions-this could have shattered the already battered faith of the allied countries after the war.(Or could have even gave more gas to the threatening New Age movements)

Battered faith?

Or maybe we just looted everything, America that is, and all this is suppressed, and even hidden deeper by putting little green aliens in front of it. I mean, this stuff would destroy the oil industry.

The Oil industry giants ( well many of them) would have folded a couple of times already if not for massive government handouts in many countries so rather ask why our governments are choosing to prop up these industries when they know about the alternatives...

(Personally I do believe in extradimensional/ extraterrestrial beings, though its more believable to me that the Nazi's/humans are causing many UFO sightings-regardless, I love this stuff!

)

I think the massive majority of the legitimate UFO sigthings are even more mundane ( and not alien) than that but it seems easier to assume absolutely far-out things than consider the implications of such being operated by a conventional Earth bound national entity. If they were Israeli or Russian or American it could and would demand a response that could be made but if their Alien or from the secret white Russian/Nazi arctic bases ( or the guys living inside the planet) the ain't apparently much we can do. I always attempt to be careful before believing something that robs me of the ability to affect change as those are not beliefs that does nothing to empower or better understand the world.

It might be true but it wont really help you to know it.

Stellar

Anyone able to debunk this?

www.magonia.demon.co.uk...

I mean, anyone game to debunk the debunker (and not debunker hitler was in)
Sorry, bored.

www.blackraiser.com...
just thought i would throw this into the mix.

Saddam city. Conspiracy lives on. Did you see how easily Letterman faked the saddam hanging for a gag? God I love the internet.

Yes, Stellar, I readily hand out insults to Hitler. I do not like what he represented, and what's more I don't have to.

To say the Reich was an advance War Machine is just as aptly said they were overly aggressive and their attacks were not anticipated. Although, many fault themselves for allowing them to build up in the first place.

The _ONLY_ reason the Germans expanded as rapidly as they did is because, well, they seemed to like to attack neutral states that weren't prepared to fight, and didn't want to. Bullying is not a state of war, but rather an act of domination. In the case of the Germans in WWII, it did have limited success. But, I still hold to the notion they lost.

Originally posted by bothered
Yes, Stellar, I readily hand out insults to Hitler. I do not like what he represented, and what's more I don't have to.

And i don't care other than mentioning that it's quite pathetic that you want to throw insults around without really understanding the history involved.

To say the Reich was an advance War Machine is just as aptly said they were overly aggressive and their attacks were not anticipated.

Their attacks were anticipated by most of those they attacked and especially by the major powers such as Britain and France that both bankrupted themselves in the preparation for the war they knew was coming. Stalin also knew the attack was coming but could not prepare a counter stroke fast enough and it's in the midst of preparation for that attack the the German army caught the USSR.

Although, many fault themselves for allowing them to build up in the first place.

It was no accident and that history makes quite clearly if you look just a little beyond your school text books.

The _ONLY_ reason the Germans expanded as rapidly as they did is because, well, they seemed to like to attack neutral states that weren't prepared to fight, and didn't want to.

Nonsense.

Bullying is not a state of war, but rather an act of domination.

More nonsense.

In the case of the Germans in WWII, it did have limited success.

Limited? They basically took over western Europe in less than a year and a half; if you consider that 'limited' you have no historic perspective on the scale of this achievement.

But, I still hold to the notion they lost.

They very obviously did that but i am attempting, and it's apparently going right over your head, to explain why i believe they had it won and why they then managed to lose.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by bothered
Yes, Stellar, I readily hand out insults to Hitler. I do not like what he represented, and what's more I don't have to.

And i don't care other than mentioning that it's quite pathetic that you want to throw insults around without really understanding the history involved.

To say the Reich was an advance War Machine is just as aptly said they were overly aggressive and their attacks were not anticipated.

Their attacks were anticipated by most of those they attacked and especially by the major powers such as Britain and France that both bankrupted themselves in the preparation for the war they knew was coming. Stalin also knew the attack was coming but could not prepare a counter stroke fast enough and it's in the midst of preparation for that attack the the German army caught the USSR.

[Picks up Hockey puck and looks for issuing Bull]
The Warsaw Pact where it was agreed on how to divide European territories was essentially a peace treaty signed into by Germany and Russia. Stalin never saw it coming, and was caught totally off guard. In fact, if I recall correctly, there was a Russian General that wanted to instill troops for the attack, just in case. He was promptly dispatched by Stalin, for being paranoid, and possibly inciting a war, which would have violated the pact.

Hi,

Here all of you have more information and videos about the Germans WWII saucer projects, and their connection to NASA and Canada, and a possible connection between “The Bell” and the Avro saucer projects.

Also the Germans had undertake many expeditions to remote places:

Germans Expeditions

And I am trying to find resources and information about the Germans bases in Antarctica, the British (military?) expeditions to Antarctica after WWII and the USA and USSR nuclear bombing of 1958 (his correct?) in the air space of Antarctica and below the ice.

Are they trying to destroy any post war Germans activities/bases in Antarctica?

Has someone information about these expeditions and bombings in Antarctic?

Thank you.

brotherthebig.

Just thought I'd introduce these artist drawings of nazi (why caps it?) ufo development...




Documentation at,
www.byerly.org...

Originally posted by bothered
[Picks up Hockey puck and looks for issuing Bull]
The Warsaw Pact where it was agreed on how to divide European territories was essentially a peace treaty signed into by Germany and Russia. Stalin never saw it coming, and was caught totally off guard.

Simply not the case but i am unsure where to start explaining it all to someone who really just believes what he was told. Do you really believe Stalin took that ten day vacation ( if it's even true ) because he was SURPRISED? Is that what you do when your ' surprised'? He took it since he KNEW he was caught right in the middle of his own preparations and at just about the worse time. It was not that he was surprised by the German attack but when , and really how quickly, it came; he expected it but only so soon in his worse nightmares.

In fact, if I recall correctly, there was a Russian General that wanted to instill troops for the attack, just in case.

There were PLENTY as it was not hard to see the German observation/spying flights criss crossing Russian skies for weeks before the start. Fact is there is no way that Stalin could not have known that a German attack of some sort were coming in the Summer of 1941. Stalin did his best not to antagonize the Germans further because he was preparing his own invasion of Western ( but probably first Eastern Europe) and needed time for his strategic deployments to be completed as his preparations were clearly going much slower than the German one's.

I find the whole idea of 'surprise' German invasion quite insane and frankly if this was not the view supported by the majority of historians it would sounds insane to most anyone who knows a damn thing about war preparations.

He was promptly dispatched by Stalin, for being paranoid, and possibly inciting a war, which would have violated the pact.

Not for being paranoid but for pointing out the obvious and bringing the message that the Germans were moving much faster than Stalin wanted to believe. The 'pact of steel' was a pact that could never last and those who signed it knew it very well.

I really have looked at these issues in some depth so if you want to discuss it in more detail do your best to show some common courtesy.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

I really have looked at these issues in some depth so if you want to discuss it in more detail do your best to show some common courtesy.

Stellar

Ok. In simmer mode.

en.wikipedia.org...

German preparations
"When Barbarossa commences, the world will hold its breath and make no comment."
Adolf Hitler [2]

In preparation for the attack, Hitler moved 3.2 million German soldiers and about 1 million Axis soldiers to the Soviet border, launched many aerial surveillance missions over Soviet territory, and stockpiled material in the East. The Soviets were still taken by surprise, mostly due to Stalin's belief that the Third Reich was unlikely to attack only two years after signing the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

The article also describes this as the downfall of the Reich according to many due to the failure of the Wermacht. Hitler's most profound troops, which due to the attrition they were to inflict essentially also cutting of their support lines.

Originally posted by Long Lance
let me introduce the KSK, because, frankly all we got is photos and the KSK is therefore just as credible as the rest:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

It's not nearly as credible as the moment they started shooting at American Bombers the odds that would become aware would increase exponentially. The fact that it does not seem the case suggest at the very least that the simply lacked the weaponry to affect the outcome of the battle at the time they were deployed. There are other reasons but i find this one to be the most logical.

formed cascade oscillators that were connected to a long barrel-shrouded transmission rod wrapped in a
precision tungsten spiral, or coil to transmit a powerful energy burst suitable to pierce up to 4 in (100 mm) of enemy armor. The heavy gun installation, however, badly destabilized the disc and in subsequent Haunebu models lighter MG and MK cannon were supposedly installed.

Frankly i don't know what to make of such speculation as i simply have not 'studied' the topic ( if reading such can be called studying) and am not aware of German research into DEW technology.

even without such a toy, the ability to land anywhere would make targetting them a bit harder than destroying jet fighters on the airfield,

But landing anywhere means nothing if you can not resupply or in fact get in the air again. There are numerous reasons why aircraft must operate from airfields and the more advanced they have become the more care they have required. To suggest that such a technological breakthrough could have so quickly broke ALL the rules ( can just fly from anywhere needing no resupplying) is in my opinion a leap of faith that makes the leap of faith to German Anti-grav technology seem quite tame in comparison.

comparable to targetting V2 vs. V1 sites, and i don't understand why you brush that off as if it was a minor difference.

I did not directly compare it to that and made it quite clear that technologies such as these were unlikely to just work without serious and persistent effort from dedicated ground crews.

putting bombs on target will necessarily cripple any opponent, the reson why strategic bombing generally sucked was its poor accuracy combined with concealed or sheltered high value targets (in europe at least ).

The reason strategic bombing sucked was simply due to the fact that bombers were massively expensive in terms of not only materials but also in the number of trained crew required. You could build at least four fighters for the resources a heavy bomber required and it takes quite less fighters to bring down such a heavy bomber. The fact that the bombing were largely massively inaccurate again even the most obvious of targets ( with the crews trained as well as they could be expected to ) did not help and best explains why the allies lost 22 000 four and two engined bombers.

the fact that germany did not rely much on ships did not help a lot either because chasing locomotives is much harder to boot and they normally don't *sink* (unless they fall off a river bridge), and can therefore be retrieved and restorred with comparable ease.

The Germans did rely on shipping in the North ( Swedish iron) and on it's rivers and the British hatched some interesting schemes to attempt shutting down the traffic on the major rivers... Locomotives may not 'sink' but if blown up they must be 'towed' ( when suitably repaired) to the nearest marshaling yard so that traffic may resume... Bombing trains was a very good way of interrupting the flow of goods as that was the only remotely efficient way to move goods between theaters of war.

if you honestly believe the B29 did not make much of a difference, you are missing an important detail, aside from transporting the a-bombs to target, of course: aerial mining.

I am not saying that it did not make a difference but that the Germans were dealing with the difference in a generally 'effective' way that threatened to halt the entire campaign by mid late 1943.
Had the Germans realised that the Allies really could just keep making bombers at that rate i know what they would and could have done.

on a side note: US subs sank more ships with mines than with torpedoes, at a fraction of the cost and at minimal danger to themselves...it's just not sexy and therefore seldom told.

In the Coastal waters of Japan, yes, but mostly due to the fact that the Japanese apparently lacked the temperament ( if not just plainly the equipment) and training to fight submarines even thought they have relative large numbers of destroyer class ships. Laying mines is always dangerous and doing so so far from home ( they take the space of torpedoes) is certainly so. Frankly US destroyers had little to fear from the IJN and they probably used the mines due to the fact that the torpedoes were so ineffective ( malfunctioned VERY frequently) during the first two years.

as for the 'no economy' comment, d'uh well they orderd their navy at the nearest hardware store, right,

They actually spent a few decades building it up to those levels and frankly they could not have done it any other way. The US ordered the ships that would defeat the IJN before the war even started and there wasn't much Japan could do but but win the opening battle's and then keep winning for the next two years; something they obviously failed to do.

and their notorious lack of fuel had nothing to do with sunk tankers.

They saved up fuel for a long time and frankly they had fuel stores in good numbers and certainly enough to win the war in the pacific which turned against them far faster than it really should have. The battle of Midway was a fluke and i can well imagine a war in the Pacific that includes the Japanese capture of Midway after their overwhelming victory in a less unlikely outcome to the original battle of Midway. A Pacific war that stretches out well into 1947 or 1948 is not in my opinion that hard to imagine if one assumes just a few 'should have been' Axis victories. Few people realise just how massive and effective the IJN of 1941 was and what kind of upset Midway in fact was.

i'm not debating whether they could have won the war, they had no chance

Combined with a the war in the East, that Hitler could have won, and a then fully split American effort to save Britain and the ME the IJN was more than strong enough to hold it's own given time to exploit it's massive resource gains in the East. Had Japan wanted to win badly enough suicide bombing would have started at the battle of Coral Sea and largely prevented Midway taking place robbing the USN of a early chance to stage a very unlikely upset at Midway. If you study the Pacific war in enough depth a effective fighting IJN in 1945 is not a strange idea at all.

but they could have commited more forces provided their merchant shipping had worked as advertised.

Their Merchant shipping were expanding up to about the end of 1943 or middle 1944, as i recall, and it was the IJN that lost the war and not their basic ( not including pilot training or ship construction or for that matter fuel oil supplies) logistical services in the merchant marine.

there is no way to guard targets scattered around the globe against an *aircraft*, in the widest sense, with global reach, you can't protect every ship with fighters (as if they could do anything against a UFO with the cited capabilites)

Well you can protect ships with fighters ( read about the Catupult launched fighters installed on merchant ships) and while that may not be effective against a ufo with the stated capability it can be done. Do we know if these Ufo's had to be stationary to fire their weaponry or if they had effective means to aim it or enough of whatever the weaponry required to do much damage to anything? Last i checked we simply do not have anything remotely detailed on any of these questions.

and ships are a weak link when you're fighting on one end of the world, producing tons of war material on the other and shipping just as many desperately needed resources in between.

How would they find the convoys when massive numbers of submarines had trouble doing so? How was the visibility from these Ufo's and what kind of range did they have? Were the 'fuel' easy to produce or what kind of energy requirements were there to maintain the anti-gravity 'drive' ( ugh)?

i'm just trying to make some sense of the scenario.

So am i but i don't believe as you do that the existence of a few experimental anti-gravity craft means ANYTHING in a strategic sense even if they could be made to carry crude ineffective guns that could not hit a damn thing on a good day. I don't see why the lack of operational deployment ( in the sense that they were affecting the outcome of the war) PROVES in some way that they did not exist and all i am doing is attempting to point out the, in my opinion, illogical nature of such arguments.

the bottom line is that such tech remained unused, for all we know, and if it was used sporadically, it happened on a miniscule scale only.

It apparently quite clearly did unless someone wants to attempt explaining the slow Allied advances in this manner.

the most plausible reason is that this stuff never existed, of course,

I think there is more than enough date to prove that the Germans did serious anti-gravity research and that they had at least some, if marginal, success...

if you want to speculate you'll have to come up with sound reasons and claims that VTOL capabilies are irrelevant or that they were probably useless because other systems (namely jet fighters) were vulnerable upon takeoff and landing do not hold water.

I think i have explained why a few weapons of this nature could not and would not affect the outcome of the war however effective ( within reason; no deathstars) they were.

if they existed and if the reason for their underuse wasn't technical (in which case they should have still recon'ed D-Day preparations, f-ex. and acted accordingly) in nature,

How would they have reconned D-day preparations any better than dedicated stripped high speed Fw-190's? Do you think D-day itself was a 'surprise' to the Germans? Could they really have 'moved' their defenses in the time it took the allies to sail to the beaches of their choice anywhere on the French coast? This is not a reason to dismiss the evidence any more than the others were...

then political reasons would be my next bet, read splinter fractions, vulnerabilty as you implied by your comparison to jet fighters does not square well with the claimed specs, though.
anyways:

EVERYTHING is vulnerable if you catch it at the right time. The entire US B-2 fleet operates from one base in the US that can either by targetted by ICBM's or be decommissioned within minutes of the outbreak of war by the deployment of smuggled into short range scuds. Anything and everything has it's weak points and the allies quickly learned how to exploit their air superiority towards making the life of a Jet pilot even shorter than the jet itself made it.

all of these points are irrlevant due to two factors, namely endurance and range.

And you can prove these Luftwaffe 'UFOS' had very long ranges or any type of endurance?

whatever the Luftwaffe did, they were limited by range, which means the area they covered was smaller therefore easier to control.
if you can freely choose location and time of your attack, weather is less important and any countermeasure quickly becomes ineffective.

Evidence? Why is simply being able to pick the time of your attack enough when you are up against overwhelming odds and might very well be tracked back to your landing area? What type of sighting equipment did these UFOS operate that they had no problem with weather conditions? Is there any proof that they were not harder to operate in bad weather?

you can't guard the entire world at the same time, but that's exactly what you'd face if your opponent had these 'vril' disks.

If they can go more than 50 km's at mach 5000 ( or whatever). I don't see how the proof tell's us anything either way.

regarding your statement about antigravity craft alledgedly operated by 3 countries, wouldn't they make conventional forces completely obsolete?

It would make conventional aircraft relatively worthless if they came into contact with such craft ( given direct energy weapons being deployed on the anti-grav craft) but if you can build a dozen aircraft for the price of one of those and actually openly intimidate others with it it might be better to have the conventional forces. The anti-grav craft can not be anywhere at once and it may require the same type of 'maintenance' and storage environment as a B-2 bomber .... Anti-gravity craft would not make conventional forces any more obsolete than tanks made infantry or nuclear weapons made rifles...

if yes, why would the situation in WW2 have been compeltely different? the only way to explain the situation, aside form proclaiming it a hoax is the inclusion of segregated circles using the tech against everyone else, isn't it? that said i don't see why you tried to invalidate my notion of 'splinter fractions'.

Well in my opinion it was not different even if these basic technologies existed back then. There has in fact been relatively few 'new' military technologies since ( especially the admitted types) and they have not changed the balance of power ( conventional power gives you the basis to deploy the rest on) in favour of those who did not have it before...

PS: if i came of as agressive, i apologize, but afaics,

Not any more than i have been so no apology required...

saying this kind of tech would not have made a strategic difference is akin to claiming that even a few SSNs operating for kriegsmarine would not have mad much of a difference.

The Kriegsmarine did basically deploy a few SSN's ( not nuclear but the speed and deployment increases were on that type of relative scale) right at the end of the war and it did not come in time to make a difference.

www.uboataces.com...

Read it and weep ( if you wanted to speak German anyways) as these are the type of technologies the Kriegsmarine could and almost did bring into service in numbers.

22 Type XXIs were destroyed by the Allies in the yards, 84 were scuttled by their crews following Admiral Doenitz's orders from May 4th, 1945. However, 12 vessels fell into Allied hands intact and gave valuable impulses towards post-war submarine development, both on the eastern and the western side. Major post-war submarine constructions in the Soviet Union, the UK, France and the USA were visibly influenced by the Type XXI.

ipmsstockholm.org...

Wars are strange things indeed.

Stellar

So am i but i don't believe as you do that the existence of a few experimental anti-gravity craft means ANYTHING in a strategic sense even if they could be made to carry crude ineffective guns that could not hit a damn thing on a good day.

I don't see why the lack of operational deployment ( in the sense that they were affecting the outcome of the war) PROVES in some way that they did not exist and all i am doing is attempting to point out the, in my opinion, illogical nature of such arguments.

it does not prove anything, because my available sources are **** therefore most of what they report is either totally exaggerated or downright invented or, even more likely, a combination of both.

what gives, anti grav tech exists, whether the nazis had it or not. technology is probably the most censored and disinfo-ridden field in history.

Originally posted by bothered
Ok. In simmer mode.

Good idea as this might take some time and getting excited so soon might lead to your early retirement.

en.wikipedia.org...

German preparations
"When Barbarossa commences, the world will hold its breath and make no comment."
Adolf Hitler [2]

In preparation for the attack, Hitler moved 3.2 million German soldiers and about 1 million Axis soldiers to the Soviet border, launched many aerial surveillance missions over Soviet territory, and stockpiled material in the East.

Unless these noted historians can explain HOW Germany took the SU by surprise i am not buying ( at least not at this advanced age) and wont be convinced because many of them say it's so.

The Soviets were still taken by surprise, mostly due to Stalin's belief that the Third Reich was unlikely to attack only two years after signing the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

The Field commanders all knew about it and Stalin apparently knew enough about German plans to have hurriedly been deploying his forces for his own offensive. Why prepare your own attack when you are of the belief that the enemy wont any time soon? You can start here as even the wiki types are aware of this.

The only real way to explain the SU force dispositions is for attack; no one defends with no depth or for that matter builds frontal airfields to support such.

The article also describes this as the downfall of the Reich according to many due to the failure of the Wermacht.

The Wehrmacht did not fail as it won the war and had to be halted and misdirected by Hitler to end up losing the war.

Hitler's most profound troops, which due to the attrition they were to inflict essentially also cutting of their support lines.

Profound troops? The Germans almost precisely estimated their casualties for the first three months (and even on a monthly basis) and whoever believes they 'underestimated' the SU or 'overestimated' their own capability should go back and study the relevant history.

I suggest the following as a good place to start and since the old link no longer works this is where i had to go to find it.

militera.lib.ru...

It's a long read but you will at least understand where i am coming from and what sort of data i base it on.

Stellar