757 Plane Did Not Hit Pentagon - Hard Visible Proof!

Originally posted by Realtruth
Zaphod58,

Since you are trying to establish credibility here, why not post exactly how you know about planes. Like your training, certs, schooling, work relations to planes. In my years of working construction I know every term, slang and jargon in the field of my expertise, so people can't BS.

RealTruth - We get it.....You're in construction. We got it the 1st, 2nd and 3rd times you told us.

It doesn't matter what background anyone comes from in these forums. These forums are intended as places where anyone can ask questions, propose theories, or state opinions.

People can decide for themeslves how much creedence to lend to the statements or opinions of others based on their level of expertise or intelligence as evidenced by the quality of their questions, the accuracy or their facts, or their correct use of approriate terminology.

If you think we should dismiss credibility of those who ask seemingly silly questions, or propose ridiculous theories lets start with this....

The Tomahawk cruise missle, which you have suggested may be the source of the engine components found at the Pentagon is 18" in diameter. Its engine (Williams International F-107) is 12" in diameter (including the fan blades). The compressor disk which I and other have posted pictures of is approximately 26" in diameter (add the blades that are missing and it would be somewhere in the range of 38" - 42" in diameter). You don't even need any aviation industry experience to realize what you were suggesting was ridiculous, all that was needed was 5 minutes of simple research on the internet.

Also posting a picture of a 777 and saying it's a 757 shows a significant lack of basic aviation familiarity and simple fact checking skills.

No one is suggesting that you should stop posting questions, theories or opinions, however if you want your theories and opinions to be taken seriously try subscribing to the advice you are giving others, or check with Mr. Lear before you post.

Thanks for your post.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
No, I wasn't in the military, but yes I was a ramp rat. I did various jobs to help out crew chiefs or specialists, or whatever. Sometimes I helped pump fuel, other times I was in there turning wrenches with the maintenance guys, other times I was just watching in case they needed an extra set of hands or eyes, or someone to read the T.O. books to them while they worked.

Well i was in the military and we always kept fuel tanks filled for 2 reasons.

1. To keep out condensation in the tanks.
2. In case of emergency.

The last thing we always did when the planes were done flying was to top off the tanks.

[edit on 11-4-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by FredT
One tidbit in regards to colors on aircraft. There has been mention of Green colors etc.

An aircraft is often delivered "green" This is in reference to a coating applied at the assembly point to protect the aluminum skin untill the paint is applied.

A lot of cruise missiles are green too and most military ordinance anywhere in the world is most likely green. I am not saying the US attacked itself, but I am saying there is a possibility that it was an outside cruise missile.

www.usswisconsin.org...

[edit on 18-3-2007 by Realtruth]

He just gave you the answer, then you dismiss it completely and use it for what you want to hear.

All airplanes will have green when you open them up. It is Zinc Chromate, to keep corrosion from happening.

Unless you think every plane out there made is actually a secret military aircraft and Cessna 172s are actually covert military fighters.

*cough*globalhawk*cough*

Ok, point taken, I'll ease off here, and I apologize if I have step on to many toes, sometimes we have to be reminded that everyone is just trying to contribute, but like I said if someone has spent their entire life in a particular field we should at least respect their knowledge.

I am also glad that people still challenge the experts, but would you agree that if you challenge an expert, in their field, you should have solid facts, links and information to back your claims up?

And remember sometimes experts forget who they are talking to and assume that people understand their jargon, so it may sometimes be miscommunication coupled with frustration on both sides.

P.S. Again I am thankful for all of you posting in this thread, even though we go head to head and things get heated sometimes I love, and appreciate every single post here, from every single member.

Originally posted by darkbluesky

It doesn't matter what background anyone comes from in these forums. These forums are intended as places where anyone can ask questions, propose theories, or state opinions.

[edit on 11-4-2007 by Realtruth]

Originally posted by Watchful1
*cough*globalhawk*cough*

Global Hawk: Powered by a Rolls Royce AE 3007: Total diameter = 38.5" (Fan). Estimated fan disk diameter = 12", compressor disk = 14", turbine disk= 15"........Compressor disk recovered at Pentagon = 26".....RR RB-211 compressor disk = 26".

Rolls Royce Cut Sheet for AE 3007:

www.rolls-royce.com...

Cut away of AE 3007 and compressor disk and turbine disk dimensions:

Originally posted by darkbluesky

Global Hawk: Powered by a Rolls Royce AE 3007: Total diameter = 38.5" (Fan). Estimated fan disk diameter = 12", compressor disk = 14", turbine disk= 15"........Compressor disk recovered at Pentagon = 26".....RR RB-211 compressor disk = 26".

I can think of plenty of crashed airplanes with RB-211's that the perps could have gotten their hands on and carted into the Pentagon the day before 911.

They may have been stupid, but not stupid enough to take pictures of the turbine engine of the Globalhawk or whatever missile they used to bomb the Pentagon. They would have taken carefully staged pictures of a compressor disc off of an RB-211 so that darkbluesky could gleefully post as proof his croc that a Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon.

Sorry darkblue. A Boeing 757 did not crash into the Pentagon. And all your huffing and puffing will not make it so. You waste incredible amounts of space here showing your same tired old pictures of bits of confetti and pieces of scrap aluminum painted up all red, white and blue to look like Americans' colors. But not one, single, solid piece of real airplane parts, traceable parts with ID numbers that can be traced back to the original maintenance logs.

Wait a minute! Where are the original maintenance logs? You know, come to think of it, all airplane manufacturers put a small piece of steel on the aft cockpit bulkhead of airplane they build. On this piece of steel is stamped the Model of airplane, the serial number and the manufacturer. I have never known of an aircraft accident where this little piece of metal wasn't found. I have never heard of an airlane accident where at least pieces of the aft cockpit bulkhead wasn't found. Or the wing main spar!

Or the fuselage keel!

Or the aft pressure bulkhead! Wait a minute!

Nope. No Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon. But thanks for your input.

OK! It looks like by this article they said the disc is not from a cruse missile, but but wait till you read what someone from Rolls Royce claimed.

American Free Press

“If the aircraft that struck the Pentagon was a Boeing 757-200 owned by American Airlines, then it would have to be a Rolls Royce engine,” Mark Sullivan, spokesman for Pratt & Whitney, told AFP.

John W. Brown, spokesman for Rolls Royce (Indianapolis), had previously told AFP: “It is not a part from any Rolls Royce engine that I’m familiar with, and certainly not the AE 3007H made here in Indy.”

The AE 3007 engines are used in small commuter jets such as the Cessna Citation; the AE 3007H is also used in the military’s unmanned aircraft, the Global Hawk. The Global Hawk is manufactured by Northrop Grumman’s subsidiary Ryan Aeronautical, which it acquired from Teledyne, Inc. in July 1999.

If the government version that an American Airlines 757-200 hit the Pentagon is accurate, then the object in the photo would have to be from a Rolls Royce RB211-535 turbofan engine.

Yeah, but the guy from Rolls Royce was a spokesperson who later admitted he knew nothing about engines. Not even the ones that they make. He'd never worked on them, and didn't know anything about them.

Sorry, I'd find the relevant quotes, but dinner is calling. I'll find and post that bit later on tonight.

Originally posted by johnlear

I can think of plenty of crashed airplanes with RB-211's that the perps could have gotten their hands on and carted into the Pentagon the day before 911.

They may have been stupid, but not stupid enough to take pictures of the turbine engine of the Globalhawk or whatever missile they used to bomb the Pentagon. They would have taken carefully staged pictures of a compressor disc off of an RB-211 so that darkbluesky could gleefully post as proof his croc that a Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon.

John, I was thinking along the same lines the military has endless graveyards of decommissioned aircrafts, it sure wouldn't be to hard to come up with some spare parts.

Can anyone comment on this? Two exit holes or entry holes in this picture.

Originally posted by johnlear

I can think of plenty of crashed airplanes with RB-211's that the perps could have gotten their hands on and carted into the Pentagon the day before 911.

They may have been stupid, but not stupid enough to take pictures of the turbine engine of the Globalhawk or whatever missile they used to bomb the Pentagon. They would have taken carefully staged pictures of a compressor disc off of an RB-211 so that darkbluesky could gleefully post as proof his croc that a Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon.

Now see here John. This is the kind of cock and bull that makes you look foolish. Post after post you claimed my pictures didn't look like anything from an airplane, then when you had to admit they were airplane parts, you fall back to a new position...they could not be from a 757 because the rivet patterns don't match, or the colors are wrong, or you cant differentiate between a wheel and a combustion chamber housng. And then when its shown beyond any reasonable doubt that they are parts from a 757, you change your defense to a weak claim that they are scavanged parts that have apparently been secreted into the crime scene. This is all really very tresome.

Sorry darkblue. A Boeing 757 did not crash into the Pentagon. And all your huffing and puffing will not make it so. You waste incredible amounts of space here showing your same tired old pictures of bits of confetti and pieces of scrap aluminum painted up all red, white and blue to look like Americans' colors. But not one, single, solid piece of real airplane parts, traceable parts with ID numbers that can be traced back to the original maintenance logs.

Wait a minute! Where are the original maintenance logs? You know, come to think of it, all airplane manufacturers put a small piece of steel on the aft cockpit bulkhead of airplane they build. On this piece of steel is stamped the Model of airplane, the serial number and the manufacturer. I have never known of an aircraft accident where this little piece of metal wasn't found. I have never heard of an airlane accident where at least pieces of the aft cockpit bulkhead wasn't found. Or the wing main spar!

Or the fuselage keel!

Or the aft pressure bulkhead! Wait a minute!

Nope. No Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon. But thanks for your input.

No matter how important you think you are John, and no matter how many secret contacts you have on the "inside"..the fact the information you demand to satisfy your personal doubts about the actual events of 9.11.01 isn't being made public, in no way proves, or even suggests that it does not exist. Anyone capable of rational thought understands this.

And your statements regarding my huffing and puffing and my space wasting pictures do not dishearten me in the least.

Thanks for your continued participation.

[edit on 4/11/2007 by darkbluesky]

[edit on 4/11/2007 by darkbluesky]

Originally posted by johnlear

They may have been stupid, but not stupid enough to take pictures of the turbine engine of the Globalhawk or whatever missile they used to bomb the Pentagon. They would have taken carefully staged pictures of a compressor disc off of an RB-211 so that darkbluesky could gleefully post as proof his croc that a Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon.

One other thing...I don't know who "they" is in your mind, but I'd like to remind you and everyone else, the pictures I've posted were personal photos taken by early responders, not official crime scene investigation photos taken, or provided by the FBI, NTSB or any other official agency.

So I dismiss the idea they were "carefully staged pictures" directed by Cheney-Rumsfeld et al.

Also if you think "they" were not stupid enough to publicize staged pictures of any non 77 parts, don't you suppose they were smart enough to:

1. knock down the correct light poles?
2. make sure thier pilot flew over the correct side of Citgo?
3. make sure there were more credible and identifiable 757 parts?
4. release some bougus DFDR infromation that made their "story' airtight?

I mean after all...isn't "they" the same folks who have holgraphic airplanes, magic mini-nukes, and mining camps on the moon?

So which is it? Are they stupid and incompetent or brilliant and all powerful?

That second video really impresses me. Its really has its facts straight, and I love how it introduces a catch 22 by saying our military is incompetent in either case. If there is no conspiracy (ie a plane did crash into the pentagon), there should be no problem in releasing the pentagon video (assuming they haven't released the video already).

[edit on 11-4-2007 by Baphomet666]

Originally posted by Realtruth
Can anyone comment on this? Two exit holes or entry holes in this picture.

I can comment on it. These appear to be exit points in the A-E drive. If a missle was the culprit I would expect to see one exit hole. If an airliner was the culprit, I would assume that as the aircraft disintegrated, separate parts with significant mass (landing gear, engine parts, pressure bulkheads - thank you Mr. Lear) would follow separate trajectories and create separate areas of impact damage. Or the hole further away in the picture might have been created by rescue personnel trying to access another area of the building.

Anyone hanging onto the missile theory need to consider this. A missile with a large warhead would have produced an obvious blast pattern with an easily identifiable locus. A missile with a small warhead would not have produced the extent of damage which has been documented.


edit to add second "i" to missile.

[edit on 4/11/2007 by darkbluesky]

Originally posted by darkbluesky
I mean after all...isn't "they" the same folks who have holgraphic airplanes, magic mini-nukes, and mining camps on the moon?

Yes.

So which is it? Are they stupid and incompetent or brilliant and all powerful?

They were stupid enough to vastly underestimate the collective intelligence of the American people.

Originally posted by johnlear

They were stupid enough to vastly underestimate the collective intelligence of the American people.

OR were they smart enough to find who's loyal and who's a threat?




John if it's not asking too much could I get your opinion on my points in this thread. If I have read correctly it ties to who/what hit the Pentagon and why.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 11-4-2007 by Watchful1]

Originally posted by Watchful1

OR were they smart enough to find who's loyal and who's a threat?

Thats very possible. Then they took everyone who was a direct threat and booked them on one of 4 flights on 911. Thats why there were so many military and government people on those flights.

Originally posted by johnlear

Thats why there were so many military and government people on those flights.

OR The loyal ones are 'dead' and the NWO keeps spinning full speed ahead.

Oh and to clarify...

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by darkbluesky
I mean after all...isn't "they" the same folks who have holgraphic airplanes, magic mini-nukes, and mining camps on the moon?

Yes.

So which is it? Are they stupid and incompetent or brilliant and all powerful?

They were stupid enough to vastly underestimate the collective intelligence of the American people.

I meant after 9/11 as to seeing who's loyal or not which conflicts with

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by Watchful1

OR were they smart enough to find who's loyal and who's a threat?

Thats very possible. Then they took everyone who was a direct threat and booked them on one of 4 flights on 911. Thats why there were so many military and government people on those flights.

Did you just do what I think?