757 Plane Did Not Hit Pentagon - Hard Visible Proof!

Originally posted by Stateofgrace
Flight 77 data recorder explained here.

You have failed yet again to answer my question, you are simply skirting around in an attempt to make me do the work for you. You offer unsubstantiated claim upon claim and expect me to debunk it.[edit on 1-4-2007 by Stateofgrace]

Do you have any evidence from a technical site that debates the NTSBs reports on the flight data recorder.

I have not failed to answer your questions you have not heard what i have stated. No matter who was in the building or who whitnessed anything since we do not have any video, photo, or reports on what hit the Pentagon you do not know it was flight 77 that hit the Pentagon you only have a theory.

You are missing my point, completely. I don't whether you are doing this deliberately or whether you simply refuse to see the mountain of evidence that supports the theory that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

You know, and I know I could right now offer up no end of debunking sites, no end of critical analyse of this evidence. I can offer up witness statements, I can offer up photographic evidence, but what is the point?

You will simply dismiss it, you will come back and ask me to explain what you believe are small anomalies.

Within anything there are always going to be small anomalies, there are always going to be things that seems strange and does not quite fit, but that does not mean it was done by design or that there is some malicious intent behind it.

These facts your cannot get away from.

Flight 77 has disappeared.
There was massive explosion at the Pentagon when this plane disappeared.
Passengers from this flight were identified by forensic DNA.
Black boxes from this flight were found at the Pentagon.
The data on these boxes show that a plane hit the Pentagon.
Damage to lamp posts has been photographed and witnesses saw the plane hit them.

As I have already said the witnesses that pilots use say that the plane hit the Pentagon. Their explanation is it was a sleight of hand, are you being serious, a sleight of hand and the plane simply flys over the Pentagon and disappears some where. It was not seen on the other side of the Pentagon, there is not a single person who has said they saw the plane fly away from the Pentagon.

Even the guys at LC don't believe the pilots, they call them disinfo agents.

Anyway , seriously , I am not running away, I simply have stated my case, I see no point it simply copying and paste tactics but I really have better things to do that argue whether Flight 77 flew over the Pentagon or not. There is zero physical evidence to support this theory and there is zero eye witnesses who saw this.

The day I see the pilots theories taken seriously by any main stream media or scientific journal I will maybe pay more attention to but as it stands the only alternative their they have is one of almost impossible complexity , which simply would not get off the ground, let alone work.


[edit on 1-4-2007 by Stateofgrace]

Originally posted by Stateofgrace
You are missing my point, completely. I don't whether you are doing this deliberately or whether you simply refuse to see the mountain of evidence that supports the theory that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.


[edit on 1-4-2007 by Stateofgrace]

At least you admit that Flt. 77 hitting the Pentagon is just a theory. Solid nonrefutable evidence should blowup the CTers, where is it?

Originally posted by infinityoreilly

Originally posted by Stateofgrace
You are missing my point, completely. I don't whether you are doing this deliberately or whether you simply refuse to see the mountain of evidence that supports the theory that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.


[edit on 1-4-2007 by Stateofgrace]

At least you admit that Flt. 77 hitting the Pentagon is just a theory. Solid nonrefutable evidence should blowup the CTers, where is it?

Indeed, the theoretical temperature of the middle of the sun is 15, 000, 000 degrees C. The theoretical pressure is 340 billion times that of earth’s atmospheric pressure.

It is just a theory and nobody has been there to prove it, so why should I believe it?

Because there is evidence and scientific fact to back it.

Figure it out for yourself.

Originally posted by Stateofgrace


Indeed, the theoretical temperature of the middle of the sun is 15, 000, 000 degrees C. The theoretical pressure is 340 billion times that of earth’s atmospheric pressure.

It is just a theory and nobody has been there to prove it, so why should I believe it?

Because there is evidence and scientific fact to back it.

Figure it out for yourself.

Going to the sun to prove something maybe a little more tricky than getting some info from the official investigation of the crash at the Pentagon on 911, but you maybe right it could be just as hard! So might as well just accept it, right?

Originally posted by Stateofgrace

These facts your cannot get away from.

Flight 77 has disappeared.

true.

There was massive explosion at the Pentagon when this plane disappeared.

This is not true. Yes, there was an explosion but it was not massive. The only reason that it continued so long was that the fire department was ordered to fight the fire with water, not foam as they wanted.

Passengers from this flight were identified by forensic DNA.

This is heresay. There has been no independent forensic tests of any DNA of any passenger in any alleged 911 crash.

Black boxes from this flight were found at the Pentagon.

This is heresay. No flight recorder or any single piece of any aircraft involved in 911 crashes has ever been indentified according to matching serial numbers with maintenance records. And this includes any part of any plane involved in 911.

The data on these boxes show that a plane hit the Pentagon.

This statement is incorrect. Neither the foil from the recorder or its tabulated data show any indication of any crash. The tabulated data show that the aircraft flew over the Pentagon by at least 300 feet. The reason this is so is that the FDR records altitude at standard barometric pressure 29.92. The barometric pressure at the Pentagon was 30.24. Whoever interpreted the tabulated data forgot that important point. They forgot (or didn't know) that FDR recorded altitude must be corrected for local barometric pressure and the reason for that is that there is no way to accurately record altitude compensating for every single change in barometric pressure that the pilot and copilot set on their altimeters. So the FDR records an arbitrary altitude (Standard 29.92) and then after any accident, is corrected for local lpressure set on both the Captains and the First Officers Altimeters (which is recorded on the FDR).

Damage to lamp posts has been photographed and witnesses saw the plane hit them.

Damage to the lamp posts has not been traced to any part of any airplane at this time. I believe there are 2 witnesses that say an airplane hit the lamp posts. If any wing of any airplane hit the lamp posts there would be instant fire trailing from that wing because the wings are actually fuel containers.

The day I see the pilots theories taken seriously by any main stream media or scientific journal I will maybe pay more attention to but as it stands the only alternative their they have is one of almost impossible complexity , which simply would not get off the ground, let alone work.

It doesn't make the slightest difference to me whether or not these facts are taken into consideration by the media or a scientific journal. If you want to wait for the mainstream media to take these facts seriously, help yourself!

As far as an impossible complexity I have no doubt I could explain it to a fifth grader in 5 minutes. Want to take a chance?

John you have raised some interesting points.

But rather than addressing each one I would like to discuss what you claim about the DNA.

Now I see this.

“Every tissue sample used for DNA analysis received a chain-of custody number,” Ross said, “and this number remained intact during the entire identification process. It allowed us to track evidence taken from victims throughout the operation, and saved AFDIL staff hundreds of man-hours by eliminating the need for hand-labeling materials.” Two-member teams from AFDIL rotated from Rockville to Dover every 72 hours to work alongside the forensic pathologists, odontologists, and anthropologists in coordinating the appropriate sampling of bone, teeth, and tissue. This arrangement insured the establishment of a proper chain of custody and expedited the overall identification process. Since many of the Pentagon victims were active-duty or reserve personnel, most had DNA reference cards already on file in AFRSSIR. “We had a total of 50 reference specimens on file for military service members who died in the Pentagon crash,” said David Boyer, the director of Operations at AFRSSIR. “That expedites the DNA identification process, because immediately we have a known reference from which we can reliably generate a DNA profile. And because many bloodstain cards also have the individual’s fingerprints, we were able to provide FBI experts with another tool for obtaining a positive identification.” As specimens arrived from the Dover Mortuary back to AFDIL in Rockville, Md, teams of forensic scientists, under the direction of Demris Lee, technical leader of the Nuclear DNA Section, took over the
difficult chore of generating a DNA profile of the victims. Their work included not only the Pentagon crash victims, but the victims of the Somerset County, Pennsylvania crash as well. Every one of the
organization’s 102 DNA analysts, sample processors, logistics staff, and administrative personnel were involved—from collecting, tracking, analyzing DNA samples, and gathering and logging DNA reference

material to preparing DNA reports. For 18 days following the terrorist attacks, AFDIL employees worked on 12-hour shifts, 7 days a week to meet the mission requirements.

www.afip.org...

It seems to me, pretty conclusive, maybe you could address this and we will move onto your other points.

By the way john , what do you reckon to Hals statement ?

Oh I missed this.
[edit on 1-4-2007 by Stateofgrace]

It doesn't make the slightest difference to me whether or not these facts are taken into consideration by the media or a scientific journal. If you want to wait for the mainstream media to take these facts seriously, help yourself!
As far as an impossible complexity I have no doubt I could explain it to a fifth grader in 5 minutes. Want to take a chance?

A thesis John ? proceed.

[edit on 1-4-2007 by Stateofgrace]

[edit on 1-4-2007 by Stateofgrace]

It looks like Johns talking about DNA of Flt.77 and Stateofgraces showing Pentagon personel DNA evidence, thats 2 different things in my book!

[edit on 1-4-2007 by infinityoreilly]

If you are right realthruth, then why would the USA kill all those innocent people who dies in the twin towers? Does the administration not have a heart for all the lives lost?

Originally posted by infinityoreilly
It looks like Johns talking about DNA of Flt.77 and Stateofgraces showing Pentagon personel DNA evidence, thats 2 different things in my book!

[edit on 1-4-2007 by infinityoreilly]

Now, now you are not reading the link I provided are you?

It is impossible to manufacture DNA to match a controlled sample. It is impossible to contaminate DNA to match a sample.

The DNA could not have been replicated, it could not have been pre planted, it had to come from the passengers.

Your court case as now fallen apart.



[edit on 1-4-2007 by Stateofgrace]

I stand corrected Stateofgrace, however the investigaters were stationed in Dover MD so DNA evidence was povided to them. Also where is the list of identified victums?. Does it include the 6(or was it 5) terrorists?

Originally posted by Stateofgrace

It seems to me, pretty conclusive, maybe you could address this and we will move onto your other points.

Sure. No Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon. So if the above is true where did they get the DNA? You should also know that a person doesn't have to be dead to provide DNA. So if the DNA was provided from dead bodies, how and where did they die? If they are from live bodies, where are the people from whom the DNA was supposedly sampled?

Originally posted by truthseeker1011
If you are right realthruth, then why would the USA kill all those innocent people who dies in the twin towers?

I would appreciate if you could change "USA" to "perpetrators". As to why:

(1) Polarize American sentiment against Muslims/Arabs.
(2) Provide an excuse to invade Afghanistan and stop OBL and the Taliban from destroying the poppy fields. (Drug flow from Afghanistan after our 'invasion' has increased exponentially).
(3) Provide the excuse to limit our liberties through the establishment of the so called "Patriot Act".
(4) Provide an excuse in invade Iraq. (Excuse proved faulty and changed to 'helping the Iraqis establish a "Democracy".

Does the administration not have a heart for all the lives lost?

Apparently no more than they had a heart for the 12,000 U.S. serviceman and 650,000 Iraqii men, women and chidren that have died there since our invasion to help them "establish a Democracy". (Not that a "Democracy has done us any good here in the good 'ole U.S.A.)

The fire on the twin tower heated the metal and weakened it, not melted it even though there are pictures on melted metal. Have you ever try to twist a paper clip, after a while it heats up and break. And from that once the floor callaspe, the structure from up top slammed into the floor and pretty much took out the building. Pysics can explain this...ever heard of F=MA Force = mass x acceleration. The mass from the upper floors fell down and slammed into the impacted floor, causing a lot more force than the floor was made to hold. And for those people who said there is no way the plane can take out some of those steal columns, try looking at the video again and you can see that when the plane hit the building, parts of it went though to the other side of the building.

There are pleanty of pictures of parts of the plane on the pentagon lawn and inside the hole on the wall that was puncture not to mention a hole is about the same width of the plane. The plane also did not do a precise impact on the pentagon, it hit the lawn, skipped, and drag a truck in front of the pentagon then hit the pentagon. It can't be a cover up. There were too many firemen and police there to cover it up. Don't you think there would be whitleblowers in the higher ranks? Like the one from the Kennedy assasination. The fact that there was no credible whistleblower in the gov. shows that there was little on no evidence to support the conspiracy. No offense but the conspiracy is really weak compare to UFO and etc.

Originally posted by amfirst
The plane also did not do a precise impact on the pentagon, it hit the lawn, skipped, and drag a truck in front of the pentagon then hit the pentagon.

Skip? No lawn damage. No engines ripped from wing. Sorry, no skip.

The only thing I can't explain is the callaspe of tower 7. But then again why would the gov. bomb the building when they planned to have only 2 planes crash into the towers. Why not 3 planes? Doesn't make any sense. Also, how would you know the gov. bomb the building when there is absolutly no evidence, only speculation. I mean the evidence to prove that the gov did it is just as good as claiming the Chinese did it, or terrorist did it. I believe the goverment saw a oppurtunity to profit from it with the war in Iraq, but that is as far as it goes.

Here is the link to the debris and engine, John. debris.0catch.com...
I'm big fan of your work, but no matter how much I want to believe in the 911 conspiracy. I just don't see any proof. The conspiracy is unreliable, they tend leave out a lot of evidence of what really happened.

"http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3853/aedrive66pc.jpg"height="460px" width="400px" alt="Click Here">

Originally posted by amfirst
The only thing I can't explain is the callaspe of tower 7.

It was the command center for the whole operation. It had to be completely destroyed. Thats why it was rigged with explosives just as the twin towers were.

I mean the evidence to prove that the gov did it is just as good as claiming the Chinese did it

No, the Chinese had nothing to gain.

, or terrorist did it.

From a cave in Afghanistan? No, unless OBL got VP Cheney to say "The orders still stand." Thereby allowing the supposed AA #11 to continue.

I believe the goverment saw a oppurtunity to profit from it with the war in Iraq, but that is as far as it goes.

Yes, thats as far as it goes until the perps start getting dragged into a court of law.

Originally posted by Stateofgrace
Now, now you are not reading the link I provided are you?

It is impossible to manufacture DNA to match a controlled sample. It is impossible to contaminate DNA to match a sample.

The DNA could not have been replicated, it could not have been pre planted, it had to come from the passengers.

Your court case as now fallen apart.



[edit on 1-4-2007 by Stateofgrace]

Only problem with your theory is that back then we did not have DNA testing for bodies that were severly burned or crushed. NIST DNA experts had to come up with new testing procedures just for 911. These test were not ready untill 2002 after they had already listed Pentagon DNA IDs.

www.nist.gov...

Due to the nature of the World Trade Center disaster, it quickly became evident that traditional methods for performing DNA typing were not likely to be fully successful in identifying all of the recovered remains. Traditional DNA ID methods depend on the presence of long, intact segments of DNA in order to accurately type the sample. The DNA in many of the samples recovered in this situation were so fragmented that these standard methods were ineffective.

In early November 2001, Dr. Robert Shaler, the director of the WTC DNA identification effort, contacted me and asked if I would be willing to develop some new DNA tests to help in the identification effort. I agreed to fast track our research efforts over the next several months and produce some test materials for his laboratory to try by January 2002.

Now i think its your court case that is falling apart.

Originally posted by amfirst
The fire on the twin tower heated the metal and weakened it, not melted it even though there are pictures on melted metal. Have you ever try to twist a paper clip, after a while it heats up and break. And from that once the floor callaspe, the structure from up top slammed into the floor and pretty much took out the building. Pysics can explain this...ever heard of F=MA Force = mass x acceleration. The mass from the upper floors fell down and slammed into the impacted floor, causing a lot more force than the floor was made to hold. And for those people who said there is no way the plane can take out some of those steal columns, try looking at the video again and you can see that when the plane hit the building, parts of it went though to the other side of the building.

There are pleanty of pictures of parts of the plane on the pentagon lawn and inside the hole on the wall that was puncture not to mention a hole is about the same width of the plane. The plane also did not do a precise impact on the pentagon, it hit the lawn, skipped, and drag a truck in front of the pentagon then hit the pentagon. It can't be a cover up. There were too many firemen and police there to cover it up. Don't you think there would be whitleblowers in the higher ranks? Like the one from the Kennedy assasination. The fact that there was no credible whistleblower in the gov. shows that there was little on no evidence to support the conspiracy. No offense but the conspiracy is really weak compare to UFO and etc.

1. Correct the fires in the towers did not melt the steel so where did all the molten steel come from in the basementrs of all the WTC buildings ?

Also the videos, photos, and firemen reports show that the fires did not burn long enough or get hot enough to weaken the steel.

2. Thier are no reports matching those parts found at the Pentagon to flight 77.