Bob Lazar and Element 115

Originally posted by sonicology
Here's something that occured to me - we supposedly don't have 115 in our solar system because our part of the galaxy lacks the massive supernovas (hypernovas?) required to fuse this superheavy element right? However Zeta Reticuli (assuming that is where the Greys come from) is right in our cosmic backyard - a mere 39 light years from Earth...

Basically what I'm saying is that if the conditions for 115 aren't right here, why should they be right in a solar system that in relative terms is very, very close to us?

Well first of all I don't agree with you that Zeta Reticuli is "close to us," even when you bring the size of the universe into perspective. We don't know much about other solar systems at all, so it is hard to determine how different each solar system is from the next one. Maybe the closest neighboring solar system to ours has all kinds of different elements and things of that sort. It's totally wide open for speculation basically...

We probably have certain things in our solar system that are not found at all in the Zeta Reticuli 2 solar system... Who really knows for sure right now?

Originally posted by Diplomat

Well first of all I don't agree with you that Zeta Reticuli is "close to us," even when you bring the size of the universe into perspective.

I said it was close in relative terms - given that the Milky Way is between 80,000 to 100,000 light years in diameter and Zeta Reticuli is only 39 light years away this hardly seems like an unreasonable assertation.

Originally posted by sonicology

I said it was close in relative terms - given that the Milky Way is between 80,000 to 100,000 light years in diameter and Zeta Reticuli is only 39 light years away this hardly seems like an unreasonable assertation.

I see what you are saying. It is a pretty short distance when you compare it to the big picture. However, one light year is roughly 6 trillion miles if I am correct... So regardless of how large the rest of the galaxy is, 234 trillion miles is plenty far for there to be all kinds of different elements and who knows what else...

Originally posted by Diplomat

I see what you are saying. It is a pretty short distance when you compare it to the big picture. However, one light year is roughly 6 trillion miles if I am correct... So regardless of how large the rest of the galaxy is, 234 trillion miles is plenty far for there to be all kinds of different elements and who knows what else...

Oh yeah, that's definitely true. However a hypernova is an exceptionally rare event (estimated to occur in our galaxy once every 200 million years) and should affect stars within hundreds of light years of the epicentre so if 115 does require a hypernova rich area of space to exist it might seem strange that those conditions exist within Zeta Reticuli and not here.

Of course this is by no means to say that its not possible, I just thought it was something interesting to keep in mind.

Originally posted by sonicology

Oh yeah, that's definitely true. However a hypernova is an exceptionally rare event (estimated to occur in our galaxy once every 200 million years) and should affect stars within hundreds of light years of the epicentre so if 115 does require a hypernova rich area of space to exist it might seem strange that those conditions exist within Zeta Reticuli and not here.

Of course this is by no means to say that its not possible, I just thought it was something interesting to keep in mind.

I don't remember reading anywhere that Element 115 needed a hypernova rich area of space to exist. Could you point me in the right direction for this info?

Originally posted by Diplomat

I don't remember reading anywhere that Element 115 needed a hypernova rich area of space to exist. Could you point me in the right direction for this info?

I thought I read it in this thread, but after skimming thru it I came up empty. Then I followed a link to Lazars wiki page and realised that was where I saw it;

"Lazar ascribed that element 115's probable absence on Earth was due to the fact that the supernovae in Earth's region of the galaxy were insufficiently massive to produce nuclei of this density. He postulates that other parts of the universe could be richer in this element."

Another thought I've had is that even "stable" isotopes of 115 are almost certain to undergo radioactive decay, its just that their half-lives will be very long (millions or even billions of years). Since the Zeta Reticuli system is billions of years older than our own solar system, perhaps it formed at a time when our region of space was rich in 115 but when our solar system formed billions of years later all the 115 had decayed?

There's an assumption here that "Zeta Reticuli" or wherever ETs supposedly live is also where they mine the E115.

That needn't be the case. Japan has no petroleum. They buy it from Saudi Arabia.

Once ETs get some they can migrate and go live somehwere else, as long as they maintain some control over the E115 source.

E115 is like 'spice'.

A very interesting thread.

I have given little thought to really heavy elements that are theoretically possible up to atomic number 137. Indeed, an area of space which had denser starting materials should very well form heavier elements than we see in nature. Our naturally occurring elements on Earth stop at uranium, element 92, I believe. I see no reason why the periodic relationship of the elements would not continue higher than we have here. I understand what John Lear is telling us about element 115 and it is very logical. As a scientist, but not a physicist, I only have a basic understanding of quantum theory, so the physicists here please forgive my bad science and correct me as required. I believe there are 5 possible isotopes of element 115, and the one with 184 neutrons would be the stable one.







[edit on 3/16/2007 by TheAvenger]

Originally posted by TheAvenger
A very interesting thread.

I have given little thought to really heavy elements that are theoretically possible up to atomic number 137. Indeed, an area of space which had denser starting materials should very well form heavier elements than we see in nature. Our naturally occurring elements on Earth stop at uranium, element 92, I believe. I see no reason why the periodic relationship of the elements would not continue higher than we have here. I understand what John Lear is telling us about element 115 and it is very logical. As a scientist, but not a physicist, I only have a basic understanding of quantum theory, so the physicists here please forgive my bad science and correct me as required. I believe there are 5 possible isotopes of element 115, and the one with 184 neutrons would be the stable one.

I don't believe we know enough to say how many stable isotopes, if any, there are in E115. The nuclear physics of superheavy atoms gets very complex and such questions as those are generally answered experimentally, not theoretically.

All elements heavier than hydrogen that we observe in the Universe are presumed to have been formed by stars, and those heavier than iron, only by supernovae (see 'nucleosynthesis'). For element 115 to be formed, the supernova must have been an extremely large and rare one. Given that we observe no E 115 whatsoever here on Earth, the possibilities are that

1) most supernovae don't form E115
2) E115 is not completely stable but has a long, but not infinite half life. E.g. a few million, but not billion years.

Either circumstance would mean that E115 would be a very rare resource in the galaxy, and if it were crucial to antigravity, ETs would fight over it fiercely. It would be worse than oil---because there are substitutes for oil. If E115 modulates an effect in physics which is unobservable otherwise, then like the mythical spice in Dune, it is irreplacable.

As an example, suppose nucleosynthesis for the materials which formed our solar system had stopped before thorium. Would we ever develop nuclear fission reactors? No, never. Probably even nuclear fission itself wouldn't have been discovered for a while---probably spontaneous fission of accelerator synthesized elements, far earlier than chain reaction fission.

Originally posted by mbkennel


As an example, suppose nucleosynthesis for the materials which formed our solar system had stopped before thorium. Would we ever develop nuclear fission reactors? No, never. Probably even nuclear fission itself wouldn't have been discovered for a while---probably spontaneous fission of accelerator synthesized elements, far earlier than chain reaction fission.

What a splendid analogy! A planet without the Actinoid elements would be different, but still life could exist without nuclear bombs, nuclear power and the products derived therefrom. We exist without element 115 and it's properties and are limited to whatever technology is possible with naturally occurring Uranium or whatever elements that can be practically synthesized from it., such as plutonium. Great answer.

Originally posted by mbkennel

There's an assumption here that "Zeta Reticuli" or wherever ETs supposedly live is also where they mine the E115.

That needn't be the case. Japan has no petroleum. They buy it from Saudi Arabia.

Once ETs get some they can migrate and go live somehwere else, as long as they maintain some control over the E115 source.

E115 is like 'spice'.

Let's not forget our own scientists have synthesized element 115 several years ago. It's just a matter of getting it stable now.

The 115 isotopes that were synthesized here on Earth lasted for only a few thousandths of a second. It may just not be possible to make a stable form of it here. I think even the elements lower than 115 like 111,112, 113, and 114 are also unstable. John Lear seems to have some very good information that the stable isotope of 115 cannot be made here. I have no reason to doubt what he has said.



[edit on 3/17/2007 by TheAvenger]

From memory: (its been a while) didnt bob even go into some detail explaining (for example) that element 115 was an orange colour?

if this is the case how credibile is it that someone could guess such a detail?
The the actual element the colour that he predicted?
And is it easy for a scientist to determine this from theoretical calculations?

Excellent thread.

Just to add a query: have any records of Lazar's educational background been unearthed? A lot of people seem to be asking 'well why doesn't anybody remember him?' with regards to the places he purportedly attended. Maybe the question should be, 'does anybody remember him?' Has anybody ever come forth with tangible evidence of Lazar attending any school/college/etc?

Originally posted by morphonius821
From memory: (its been a while) didnt bob even go into some detail explaining (for example) that element 115 was an orange colour?

if this is the case how credibile is it that someone could guess such a detail?
The the actual element the colour that he predicted?
And is it easy for a scientist to determine this from theoretical calculations?

Again, an actual stable isotope of 115 has not been made. The two isotopes of 115 that were made lasted for just milliseconds, so I doubt any physical color could have been determined, even with a great camera.
All that we have been able to do so far is make a SWAG, a scientific wild- assed guess about it's color. This is done by looking at the element directly above it in the periodic table, which is bismuth. Assuming it should have similar properties to bismuth, we would guess silver-white or white. Inpurities also affect color. Of course, the real color cannot be 100% established until stable 115 is found/synthesized/stolen, but the process above has been a fairly reliable indicator for other newly discovered elements.





[edit on 3/19/2007 by TheAvenger]

Originally posted by morphonius821
From memory: (its been a while) didnt bob even go into some detail explaining (for example) that element 115 was an orange colour?

if this is the case how credibile is it that someone could guess such a detail?
The the actual element the colour that he predicted?
And is it easy for a scientist to determine this from theoretical calculations?

I wonder if the 115 Bob had (assuming that is what he had) could have "rusted" and become a 115 oxide? Plutonium for example is normally a silvery white metal, but when it undergoes oxidation it can have any of the following colours depending on the ion (source: wikipedia)

* PuIII, as Pu3+ (blue lavender)
* PuIV, as Pu4+ (yellow brown)
* PuVI, as PuO22+ (pink orange)
* PuV, as PuO2+ (thought to be pink)
* PuVII, as PuO52- (dark red)

The element 115 is labelled reddish-orange by Lazar.

See Appearance & Characteristics
users.skynet.be...

Regarding the episode where John, Bob, and company witnessed the ascension and maneuvers of a disc on the periphery of A51 in '89 and neglected to film it even though there was a videocam that was "left on the bumper of the RV", presumably within reach:

There have been many reported cases where witnesses have been so awestruck and dumbfounded by what they are seeing that they neglect to think "rationally", and "forget" to go through the comparatively boring and distracting mechanics of pointing/focusing/filming the event.

This has happened to me on 2 occasions as well. Once when I traveled thousands of miles to stand in and witness and film a total solar eclipse. It was such a magnificent sight - lasting all of 2.5 minutes, with an onrush of overwhelming black shadow racing at us from the horizon, followed by an unforgettable display of the solar corona, stars came out, and the shadow then raced away and the horizon exploded in daylight again. I barely got any shots at all - my jaw slack and my eyes wide.

the second time was camping in the forests of the San Bernardino mountains, when late one night an incredibly fast, very dark (no lights), completely silent triangle-shaped craft, surrounded by a weird distortion wave around it passed from horizon to horizon a few miles north of us. The area is near the Edwards/LMT skunk works area so was probably a black project craft, but even though a camera was sitting right by me, I was so mesmerized by what I was witnessing that it never occurred to me to pick it up (until afterwards, of course, at which point I began kicking myself for being so absentminded).

Anyway - in defense of John on this one, he (and other witnesses I've read about) can be so frozen in awe with an unusual sight that your attention is riveted and you can't bring yourself to look away even for an instant.

As for the "other" videos - I just hope we get to see a portion of them one day...

p.s. I'm "ready"...

Originally posted by sonicology

I wonder if the 115 Bob had (assuming that is what he had) could have "rusted" and become a 115 oxide? Plutonium for example is normally a silvery white metal, but when it undergoes oxidation it can have any of the following colours depending on the ion (source: wikipedia)

* PuIII, as Pu3+ (blue lavender)
* PuIV, as Pu4+ (yellow brown)
* PuVI, as PuO22+ (pink orange)
* PuV, as PuO2+ (thought to be pink)
* PuVII, as PuO52- (dark red)

Since bismuth forms oxides, I would certainly consider it very possible that 115 would also. A different color when oxidized? More than likely.







[edit on 3/19/2007 by TheAvenger]

Originally posted by Byrd
However, as I recall, Lazar said it [Element 115] had anti-gravity properties... and he certainly missed the mark on that point as well as on other points.

As with a number of other people in this thread, I agree that Bob Lazar is telling the truth.

His understanding about Element 115, antimatter reactors, and the vast difference in power between traditional nuclear weapons versus the more advanced antimatter variations (that the aliens have in their arsenal), is all explained in his DVD documentary.

Anyone who wants to know about Bob Lazar and this subject needs to view that DVD and analyze it at length.

Accordingly, the Element 115 used is somehow manufactured by aliens which stem from the Zeta 2 Reticuli System - hence the term Zetan. It does not necessarily mean that Element 115 comes from the Zeta 2 Reticuli System, only that the aliens' home base is Zeta IV in that system.

Bob Lazar does not mention that Element 115 has anti-gravity properties.

Rather, it is the key element in the antimatter reactors that power Zetan probes and spacecraft. It enables those reactors - which have been described to be the approximate size of a basketball - to be 100% efficient (with no byproduct).

That is how the aliens generate enough energy to power all facets of their ships and especially their anti-gravity wave propulsion systems. This is also addressed in his documentary.



[edit on 20-3-2007 by Paul_Richard]