Real Talk about White Privilege

quote: I know some of my closest black friends mom ... tells/TOLD him on a daily occasion when he was growing up that he would never be as good as the white people at his school ... If anything helped OPRESS HIM it was his own MOMMA

More obfuscation, that's fine though. WHy don't you ever wonder where his Moma got that notion from?

Because I know where his mother got this NOTION from .. it's more than a NOTION ... It happend years of slavery ... happend in this country .... If you cannot accept change and realize that people have made mistakes even as far as Christians, JEWS, Budhist, ATHLETES or any other person you can LIST .... Everyone has made and MAKES mistakes ... But it is those who can correct those errors and move ON .... KEY POINT HERE ... WE NEED TO MOVE ON !!! I was raised very very poor ... I had reduced lunch for all my life whenever I was in high school ...(SO EMBARASSING) ... But you know I took that as I am going to have to work twice as hard to make what I want to make outta my life ... But I will not let the fact that I was born into POORNESS (I AM SURE THERE IS ANOTHER WORD) let me be poor all my life ... Even if you were BORN into slavery I would not let this make me a slave all my life ... IF YOU WANT TO BE A SLAVE and want to have room for saying something ... BY ALL MEANS ... Come to texas and be my slave .... I think we may could get away with it .. I could get some fields for you to start plowing for a bowl of rice and a shed out back .. BRING ALL YOUR FRIENDS ... I need mexicans cause they are the hardest workers so by all means bring them if you want too ... Get more work done that way =-) .... Maybe we can all revert and I can be alittle racist and you can have your means of saying all this BS ... that you seem to be having in your head is still taking place.


[edit on 2-3-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
"What's the difference between feeling hatred when you see a cop uniform and feeling hatred when you see a dark-skinned person"? What's the REAL difference?

Let's see...clothing vs a human being. Tough to see a difference there.

Cops have only been around for about a hundred years or so. Racism only became a big issue about 500 years ago. The Europeans made racism a big deal during their colonial days, and I'll be damned if I'm scared to point that out to you. You WILL face it.

Did you think, truthseeka, that no one would call you on your own hatred and "black privilege"? Because that's what I'm doing. You have a privilege to hate a group of people (cops, whites, whatever) and spew resentment and loathing and NOT be called a name for it. Supposedly, because your hatred is justified. But if I hate a group, I'm a racist or a bigot.

Damn, you're desperate.

Besides insinuating I hate white people (REALLY shows you're desperate, for shame :shk: ), you keep equating me using the term pig as me using some phony "black privilege." You have NO idea how much I laugh when I see some white posters use this term.

You say there's only white privilege and I'm calling you out on it. And your response is to make (stupid) jokes, try your hand at sarcasm, laugh at and deride me the best you can, send me a nasty U2U and then run. WTF?

Stop LYING!! Damn. You are a LIAR! When I commented on McIntosh's article, I specifically talked about her use of male privilege to attempt to unravel white privilege. STOP LYING!

"You" started this thread about white privilege, I guess not expecting anyone to counter. Because when someone does, instead of having an intelligent discussion (of which I firmly believe you are capable) you find some silly reason to "refuse to answer".

Again with the false allegations. After reading the articles, I knew FULL WELL what the responses would be.

"There's no such thing as white privilege."

"Blacks/other minorities are the ones who have privilege."

"I've never benefitted from white privilege."

And, of course, those nuggets of wisdom from Deus and Dock6. Notice I had PLENTY of opportunities to call them names for their comments, yet I refrained from doing so.

With this thread, "you" seem to want to teach everyone about something that we already have opinions on. We are intelligent people. Many of us have been around a lot longer than you have and we've had lots and lots of life experience that you have no clue about yet, and we have formed opinions. (Ok, I'm ready for another age dig - those always help the discussion). I'm not saying we're right, I'm saying we have opinions. It's going to take more than

and a bunch of juvenile remarks to convince us otherwise!

No.

I want to put white privilege out there for all who open this thread to see. I've seen enough of it in real life and on the books; now others will see. Were someone to actually discuss the issue instead of deflecting to whatever they can, you wouldn't see "a bunch of juvenile remarks." Which is another lie; pigs was the only thing I mentioned that might be considered as such. Why don't you take a look at some of the posts from those who share your opinions...

If, on the other hand, you're in it to better race relations, then you have to answer the questions put forth. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of catfights. Then again, maybe that's what you really wanted in the first place... And if that's the case, you lose.

I'm not here to better race relations. I'm here to make people face white privilege. To expose this taurus feces that still goes on in America, where "all men are created equal." In case you didn't know, it's pretty much only invisible to whites; most minorities already know it's real.

It's not at all about theories. It is about straight up FACTS ... There is no slavery in the United States. You can sit here all day and tell me what has happend or try and use the Jasper killings that happend only a few years back here in Texas to say that there are still racial hatred. And you are right there is and always will be Racial Hatred and/or TENSION but that is going to be both ways ... Whether it is whites hating blacks or verse visa ... But the fact of the MATTER is ... is that if you want to let it have CONTROL over your life by all means let it control you. If you don't want it to .. you can stand with the rest of us PEOPLE'S and take a STAND we would love to have you but you are either on one side of the fence or the other and if you are saying that it is still here and you are allowing it ... Then it will always be there ... NO THANKS TO YOU ... OR .... You can believe in your fellow brother and realize that we are all here together and there are much greater things that we need to work on TOGETHER if we are planning for this planet to last another 5 generations.

Deus,

Maybe you should make your posts more readable. Without the big, blocky paragraphs in bold. I'm not going to try to piece together your thoughts if you don't organize them better.

Thank you for responding, phoenix.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
You Don't Even Know What White privelege Is

Why in the world would you say that? I do know. I know and I have acknowledged it. I have read much about it. Just because I don't agree with every single offer put forth, doesn't mean I'm ignorant.

Like I have tried explaining to you, the term based on the pigs is not based on hatred.

That depends on the intention of the user. I could say the same thing about "jungle bunny". My brother-in-law used to use that term (among others). He was trying to be funny. He didn't hate anyone. He would never say it to a black person's face, but I heard it many times.

And how you can say that the term "pig" (as TS uses it) isn't based hate is beyond me. How many people who use the term know where it came from? The feeling TS has is pretty clearly hatred.

Either of these terms can come out of hatred or not. That's up to the people using them, isn't it? Can't the N-word be used in hatred and in brotherhood? It's the same word.

Tell me something then, according to all of your logic of course--If I call someone a fat-ass, does that mean that I have hate for all fat people?

Only you know how you feel about fat people and why you would use such a term. If we were talking about fat people, though, and you used that term, I would *think* that you had some real issues with fat people. And I would think you had no respect for them and possibly hated them. Yeah.

TS was talking about cops. He used the term slop-eating swine. So I *think* he has some real issues with cops. And I think he has no respect for them and possibly hates them.

I guess the real difference to you guys, though is the history. Is that right? Not hatred, but history.

Does that represent centuries of systemic "genocide" against fat people?

No. But I was simply talking about hatred. If what you're saying is the difference to you is about the history, then I can at least understand what you see as the difference.

There is a difference between terms that are meant to degrade, and terms that are meant to represent entire lines of thought. You know this, and so do I.

I never thought about it like that! You can put me down all you want for not automatically knowing what you mean (or "playing dumb" as you and Ceci like to say), but that's not what I'm doing! I'm asking because I don't know and I really resent you making it so hard to ask a question and get an answer. It's like you think I'm playing some game. I'm not!

Why should I stay in this? It's like pulling freaking teeth to get an answer to my questions! Like I told HH, I don't need to stay in here and be abused. I have nothing to lose! You want to get your points across to white people, then do it! I'm here. I'm asking! But you guys treat me like I'm some kind of enemy! And I'm sick of it! Why should I stay?

You think I'm here for the drama? Because I secretly hate blacks and have a point to prove? To "win"?

but I do feel like Tom Cruise whilst talking to Matt.

Fine. Tom Cruise is an ass hat with no ability to entertain an opinion outside his own. He thinks he knows everything. Matt was simply asking questions. Good questions. Challenging questions. Probing, exploring, as I have done. If that's "glib" then I'm it, baby.

See, I don't think I know it all. I do have questions. I want to explore the minds of the black people here to learn where you're coming from. I don't want to see a bunch of Internet Scholars' opinions. I can look that up if I want. But I can't ask them questions when I don't 'get' something. And when I ask questions here, I get called names, I get put down, I get laughed at.

I wouldn't put up with all this crap if I didn't care. And then, when I'm ready to say # it and walk out, I get told that I never really cared in the first place. That my friendship is not worth keeping.

I wonder just who's playing a game here because sometimes I feel like a pawn.

Edited to add a missing word.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

It's not at all about theories. It is about straight up FACTS !!! And the fact is that there is no slavery in the United States. You can sit here all day and tell me what has happend in the past or try and use the Jasper killings that happend only a few years back here in Texas to say that there are still racial hatred. And you are right there is and always will be Racial Hatred and/or TENSION but that is going to be both ways. Whether it is whites hating blacks or verse visa!

But the fact of the MATTER is , is that if you want to let it have CONTROL over your life, by all means let it control you!!! If you don't want it to; you can stand with the rest of us PEOPLE'S. But you are either on one side of the fence or the other and if you are saying that RACISM is still here and you are allowing it and just saying it is here because of things that has happend in the past, I cannot help you(AS NOONE CAN). Then it will always be there in your mind and it will not matter what happens here in the REAL WORLD ... NO THANKS TO YOU ... OR .... You can believe in your fellow brother and realize that we are all here together and there are much greater things that we need to work on TOGETHER if we are planning for this planet to last another 5 generations. MARTIN LUTHER HAD A DREAM ... *CLAP *CLAP *CLAP ... NO damnit I have a dream ... and it is to ALLOW all the black people that have had racial Segregation to let it the hell GO ... Everything happens for a reason and you would not even be an American today if your Four-Fathers wouldn't have ventured out and took those steps because they knew the life that they were getting over on NORTH AMERICA was 100 times better than the life that they were leaving behind. Now you have this chance to live your life better than they ever DREAMED possible. yet, you don't uphold thier wishes to make a better life for thier kids to come. If your grandfather was here today !! THE THINGS HE WOULD SAY !!!

Originally posted by truthseeka
Deus,

Maybe you should make your posts more readable. Without the big, blocky paragraphs in bold. I'm not going to try to piece together your thoughts if you don't organize them better.

Originally posted by truthseeka
After reading the articles, I knew FULL WELL what the responses would be.

"There's no such thing as white privilege."

"Blacks/other minorities are the ones who have privilege."

"I've never benefitted from white privilege."

I didn't say ANY of these things. Why do you credit others' answers to me?

Why don't you take a look at some of the posts from those who share your opinions...

And there's the crux of the problem. Because I share SOME opinions with the other people here does not mean I'm in 100% agreement with them, yet you group me in with them. Why?

I'm here to make people face white privilege. ... In case you didn't know, it's pretty much only invisible to whites;

I have already acknowledged that iti's real. It's NOT invisible to me. Yet, (is it because I'm white?) you keep attributing these opinions to me.

Racist post removed.





[edit on 2-3-2007 by TheBandit795]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I didn't say ANY of these things. Why do you credit others' answers to me?

Hey, it was YOU who said I didn't know what I was getting myself into when I started this thread. I was just pointing out that I did.

And there's the crux of the problem. Because I share SOME opinions with the other people here does not mean I'm in 100% agreement with them, yet you group me in with them. Why?

Missing the point again.

First, you say that I'm only arguing like a 12 year old; in other words, my points don't make sense. You also said all I did was insult other posters, which I did NOT, IMO.

Now, you missed the point about my asking you to reference other's posts. It was NOT because I was grouping you with them; it WAS because I was showing who REALLY is making juvenile, even racist, statements. Case in point...

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
Deus_Brandon's ignorant, blatant racist post removed by mod

See what I mean? I edited one word so you could see what he really said. Btw, HE has grouped y'all together here, saying "y'all" won't miss us.

I have already acknowledged that iti's real. It's NOT invisible to me. Yet, (is it because I'm white?) you keep attributing these opinions to me.

I hate to break it to you, but you're not that important to where I'm out to get you. Hell, you only started responding when this thread was in full swing for a few pages. This is not about YOU, YOU, YOU, BH.


[edit on 2-3-2007 by TheBandit795]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Why should I stay in this? It's like pulling freaking teeth to get an answer to my questions! Like I told HH, I don't need to stay in here and be abused. I have nothing to lose! You want to get your points across to white people, then do it! I'm here. I'm asking! But you guys treat me like I'm some kind of enemy! And I'm sick of it! Why should I stay?

You think I'm here for the drama? Because I secretly hate blacks and have a point to prove? To "win"?

--

See, I don't think I know it all. I do have questions. I want to explore the minds of the black people here to learn where you're coming from. I don't want to see a bunch of Internet Scholars' opinions. I can look that up if I want. But I can't ask them questions when I don't 'get' something. And when I ask questions here, I get called names, I get put down, I get laughed at.

I wouldn't put up with all this crap if I didn't care. And then, when I'm ready to say # it and walk out, I get told that I never really cared in the first place. That my friendship is not worth keeping.

I wonder just who's playing a game here because sometimes I feel like a pawn.

This is the long, and the short, of it for me. Whether the member is white, black, purple, green, or yellow, if they disagree, they are overtly slandered. It is not so much as disagreement, it is the attempt to 'question' what the 'status quo' is. In the last few weeks we have seen thread, after thread, after thread, that are basically talking about the same issues. It is the same members going from thread to thread discussing the same issues, and bickering back and forth. Speaking on behalf of myself, I did openly disagree, but I was honestly trying to understand the 'mindset' of another race's perspective. This disagreement and process of questioning had me berated and ridiculed. Since, I exited the threads and could not be bothered reading the drivel that was consuming the threads. Now I finally return after a few weeks, and I notice that BH is being dealt the same hand.

From what I have seen, this member has asked, repeatedly, honest questions that are from a neutral perspective. Granted 'we' may have a position, but I know I reserve the right to change my mind at any damn time. If 'your' agenda here is to get the message across, then why not take advantage of those members who are genuinely asking questions? Why? Why do you berate these members and then 'discuss' with other members who are more inclined to fire back in the same inappropriate manner?

Why?

Because with this issue, it is easier to approach it with fighting, bickering, ridiculing, etc., than with an open-mind and with respect, empathy, and an ability to agree to disagree. When a member approaches the subject with an ability to respect another's stance, and genuinely asks some questions of the individual's stance, this overt attempt at trolling is called out quickly. Members like BH are not here to discuss the issue, right? Right? She is here to troll with her repeated empathetic approaches, with her repeated efforts to understand the 'mindset' of the OP and others who have agreed with his message?

Time and time again we see these members ridiculing anyone who uses derogatory terms towards their 'groups'. Yet we see "fat-ass", "pig", etc., in their vocabulary repeatedly. semper is a blatant 'pig' because of his profession. There is no hatred in this, I am just stating a fact. Right? Right? But a "camel-jockey" or a "gang-banger" or the "n" word is hatred in it's purest form. We read that these are 'apples' and 'oranges'. How? We are taking a detail of this individual, and pre-judging them.

What the hell is the difference?

Maybe these open-minded, empathetic, respectful members that are actually trying to discuss the god damn issue should take a few pages from the other team's playbook. Then a thing or two might actually get discussed. It's easier to point fingers and undermine those who actually have a point, rather than try to refute what they have to say.

I've come to see that the overt dodging of our points is reinforcing the validity of what "we" have to say.

I SAY WE DON'T NEED YOU HERE ... I THINK YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT ... WE are all over here trying to live life un segregated ... and here you come telling us that we are still RACIST ..... When I have never been a racist in any form or fashion of the word. Although right now ... You are missing the point of this THREAD .. Was started to say White people have privledges ... Privledges over what /.?? You are getting all the money from the government .. and all the Deductions on everything from Food to Housing .... I would be in alot better shape if I got half of these Grants Help from the government .... BUT I don't so I liuve in an Effeiciency ... and I will make something outta my life .. and hopefully do something with my life .. if you wanna say white people are in power and take control that is because I have taken the initiative to do so ... Just as well as you could do if you wanted .. But HEy ... why do that when all you have to do is sit there and be in POVERTY and let AMERICA take care of you ... Just like you were when you were first brought over here .... It is you who is enslaving your self BROTHER ....


quote]Originally posted by truthseeka

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I didn't say ANY of these things. Why do you credit others' answers to me?

Hey, it was YOU who said I didn't know what I was getting myself into when I started this thread. I was just pointing out that I did.

And there's the crux of the problem. Because I share SOME opinions with the other people here does not mean I'm in 100% agreement with them, yet you group me in with them. Why?

Missing the point again.

First, you say that I'm only arguing like a 12 year old; in other words, my points don't make sense. You also said all I did was insult other posters, which I did NOT, IMO.

Now, you missed the point about my asking you to reference other's posts. It was NOT because I was grouping you with them; it WAS because I was showing who REALLY is making juvenile, even racist, statements. Case in point...

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
THIS IS ALMOST LIKE A DIVORCE ... YOU WANT A DIVORCE FROM YOUR PAST MOVE THE F.UCK BACK TO AFRICA ... BY ALL MEANS ADIOS , GOODBYE ... GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE .... WE WILL NOT MISS YOU !!!! and yes I know that is all in caps !!!

See what I mean? I edited one word so you could see what he really said. Btw, HE has grouped y'all together here, saying "y'all" won't miss us.

I have already acknowledged that iti's real. It's NOT invisible to me. Yet, (is it because I'm white?) you keep attributing these opinions to me.

I hate to break it to you, but you're not that important to where I'm out to get you. Hell, you only started responding when this thread was in full swing for a few pages. This is not about YOU, YOU, YOU, BH.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

MY personal favorite is everytime that you make a good point. The alledged says ... You are missing the point ... LOL ... THE POINT IS THAT THERE IS NO SLAVERY ... And the slavery that was here you heard about ... and you want something free .. Which you are getting .. and if you are not ... that is not my fault go register for HUD .. if you are AFrican AMerican .. or Indian or ... any other race besides Caucasion you are goign to get this grant ... You can be a drug dealer and still get this grant ... You can have a 25,000 car and still get this grant ... I drive a 83 Plymoth Diplomat ... NOt the most stylish of cars ... But mostly because I cannot get any help from anyone ... besides my mother and father of which had started thier own business and just declared Bankruptcy ... and now my mom works 3 different jobs and my dad just turned 50 and he is having to go out at 5:30 in the morning and not get home untill 8 or later sometimes ... Just to make it ...

MY personal favorite is everytime that you make a good point. The alledged says ... You are missing the point ... LOL ... THE POINT IS THAT THERE IS NO SLAVERY ... And the slavery that was here you heard about ... and you want something free .. Which you are getting .. and if you are not ... that is not my fault go register for HUD .. if you are AFrican AMerican .. or Indian or ... any other race besides Caucasion you are goign to get this grant ... You can be a drug dealer and still get this grant ... You can have a 25,000 car and still get this grant ... I drive a 83 Plymoth Diplomat ... NOt the most stylish of cars ... But mostly because I cannot get any help from anyone ... besides my mother and father of which had started thier own business and just declared Bankruptcy ... and now my mom works 3 different jobs and my dad just turned 50 and he is having to go out at 5:30 in the morning and not get home untill 8 or later sometimes ... Just to make it ...

WTF??

All I could read was the first sentence or two of that post.

Deus, I'll post other comments from yourself. If you don't see what's wrong with your comment I already quoted, I don't know what to say. I'm not surprised, though.

Originally posted by truthseeka
See what I mean? I edited one word so you could see what he really said. Btw, HE has grouped y'all together here, saying "y'all" won't miss us.

And I told him to go play while the adults had a discussion. I don't even read his posts. He is not me and he does not represent me! No matter what he says. Only I get to put forth my opinion. He does not. But you're so willing and eager to let his opinions stand for me. Why? So I can still be the bad guy?

Have you EVER heard me say anything so lame as "Go back to Africa"???

The VERY first time I talked to you, TS, I was SO empathetic and understanding. I called you "honey" and "sweetheart" and I really meant it, but you have pushed me away at every turn and now it's all lost. Here are some quotes from our first discussions on this topic a month ago:

Originally posted by truthseeka
OK, BH, I see what you're saying.

But, what are you supposed to do when all you have is basically NOTHING? (in the most extreme cases of poverty in the US)

But, I do agree with what you're saying about trying to make something of yourself. The problem is that you go through a lot of emotional trauma as you try to do your best, yet REPEATEDLY see institutional racism hindering your progress.

And my response:

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Honey, I can only imagine. And I'm so sorry for you if that's what you experience. Sometimes life is an uphill battle for sure.
...
This country is still in transition. I'm sorry about that but that's the reality in front of our faces NOW. It's the reality we have to deal with NOW. I'm not saying to accept it, not by any means. I don't. But there are things you (and your friend) can do. Like stay out of trouble. Finish school. Get an education so you CAN become someone. Maybe a politician or a philanthropist or a business owner so you can help out the people that YOU deem need and deserve your help.
...
I don't know a damn thing about the average kid in the hood, sweetheart. So I know I didn't say that he can just try hard and make it out. And yes, even if he does, the system is still racist and will be for quite some time. You're living in the transition and what you do, how you conduct your life, will make a contribution to determine how much the generations coming after you have to deal with.

And that's what I'm saying. You can get an education and do the right thing to promote the end of racism, or you can follow the path your friend has chosen.

Now I don't mean to imply that you and your friend are the only 2 factors. Far from it. But you do have some power there. Use it!

Use every bit you can grasp. I'll do my part, too, and I do. But I can't change the way the people in the system view the 'hood kids if they keep making choices to sell drugs.

That isn't a "white woman" fighting with a "black man". That's an older woman talking with a younger man. And now you've taken to making fun of my age, like I should be embarrassed about it or something. If I wasn't proud to be the age I am and still be as open-minded and good-looking as I am, I would never have brought it up.

Your anger toward me blinds you, I'm afraid. You attack everything I say as if you NEED to hurt me. But you can't hurt me. It must be very frustrating.

I'm just sorry. I'm sorry we can't talk.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by truthseeka
WTF??

All I could read was the first sentence or two of that post.

How about anyone who attempts a respectful approach? Someone who is not playing into your 'game'. How about a member who is attempting to understand where you are coming from, rather than overtly bashing one another.

Are your intentions to actively participate in a constructive conversation on the subject? Or bicker with members whom may, or may not, agree with you?

Members, who happen to disagree, are attempting to actively participate in a constructive conversation. Spend a moment attempting to read their posts, rather than 'summing' up "everyone else" by one member who is a little hot headed over the subject.

Deus is ranting about the subject, and your approach. Rather than acknowledge other member's who have actively contributed to this discussion, you point to his post's and say, "WTF?".

If your going to discuss this issue, take a few more paint brushes to the table.

As I've said previously, this is the same topic as we have had time and time again. This whole white on black, black on white issue. Whether it is the "Me First" Mentality, or the "Victim" Mindset, Social Issues has been inundated with a lot of threads lately that are bordering the same issues. Same faces, same topics, and same approaches.

Do white privileges exist?

Yes.

Does black privileges exist?

Yes.

No matter what our role, status, race, etc., is, each comes with a degree of 'privileges'. It is inevitable. Some may come with a perceived disadvantage, but I believe that is up to the individual to interpret. Considering every role, status, race, etc., does inherit a degree of privileges, this approach here does come across as an attempt to victimize one's self.

Over this last week, I've been involved with a small committee of people whom are attempting to create a non-profit organization to help homeless individuals. Are we directing our attention towards whites? Blacks? Orientals? Natives? Elders? No. There is one detail we are looking towards, and that is homeless. If we were to read a few threads on this site as of late, we would begin to believe that this issue of race is something many of us are privy to on a daily basis. It is absolutely absurd.

As other members have said, I don't wake up in the morning and be like, "Hey, I'm White! Life is Great!" My skin color is the last thing that comes to mind in my day. I have burdens just as any other white person, or black person does. Life can be great, and life can suck, our race does nothing to alleviate this burden. In the past, yes we had this preconceived notion that our skin color was some indication of superiority. Yeah well, we've resolved that. Are there still white people that despise black people? Certainly. And there are, without a doubt, just as many black people that despise white people. Racism is a double-edged sword.

In my life, can not speak for everyone else, merits are conceived on the individual themselves. Insignificant details are moot. They do not come into play whatsoever.

I was involved in a interview process this week as we attempted to fill two positions in the organization that I've just began working for this past week. The individual is going to be working hand n hand with young offenders who are in conflict with the law. Did gender, race, religion, etc., come into play? Of course not. The one thing that came into play was experience and the individual's own merit.

Sorry to break it to you, but the victim card has been worn out.

If you didn't get a job, it was because you were not qualified. Not because you are a woman, or white, or black, or hispanic, or any other damn detail you can fathom. Today, we stand on our own two feet. You succeed, and fail, on your own merit.

Take it at face value if you wish.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by chissler]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Why in the world would you say that? I do know. I know and I have acknowledged it. I have read much about it. Just because I don't agree with every single offer put forth, doesn't mean I'm ignorant.

That was not my intent, and I am hurt that you think it was. I was only saying that in the same way because I could think of no other way to convey my frustration. Don't take everything so personally.

That depends on the intention of the user. I could say the same thing about "jungle bunny".

More simplification, obfuscation, and false analogies, please BH, I have come to expect more from you.

My brother-in-law used to use that term (among others). He was trying to be funny. He didn't hate anyone. He would never say it to a black person's face, but I heard it many times.

Perhaps that goes to the root of the difference between what black, and white people consider funny. Have you ever heard of bagging, or capping? Most black people don't mind being "funny" to your face.

How many people who use the term know where it came from? The feeling TS has is pretty clearly hatred.

We are not talking about most people, and we are not inferring at our convenience what others meant. Perhaps you should try asking him what he meant by the term, instead of automatically assuming that it is racist, despite your obvious lack of knowledge concerning the etymology behind the term.

Can't the N-word be used in hatred and in brotherhood? It's the same word.

No, and its use is born of confusion

Only you know how you feel about fat people and why you would use such a term. If we were talking about fat people, though, and you used that term, I would *think* that you had some real issues with fat people. And I would think you had no respect for them and possibly hated them. Yeah.

So, now it turns into the fact that I "obviously" have issue with them, and might "possibly" hate them? How convenient for your argument.

You know as well as I do that there is a difference, and that by me calling someone fat, it does not represent an ideology behind my slur.

TS was talking about cops. He used the term slop-eating swine. So I *think* he has some real issues with cops. And I think he has no respect for them and possibly hates them.

I do not disagree that the term pig carries with it some heavy connotations, but to equate that to hate is fallacious at best. You are grasping again, at apple and orange flavoured straws no less

I guess the real difference to you guys, though is the history. Is that right? Not hatred, but history.

No, it is the intent, and the message that is trying to be conveyed through said slur. Like I said, this isn't a simple matter of calling names, there is more at play here.

No. But I was simply talking about hatred. If what you're saying is the difference to you is about the history, then I can at least understand what you see as the difference.

You admit that you were "simply" takling about hatred, then had the audacity to ask me to explain how you were over-simplifying. Am I the only one who finds this funny?

I never thought about it like that! You can put me down all you want for not automatically knowing what you mean (or "playing dumb" as you and Ceci like say), but that's not what I'm doing!

Honetly I am happy that you are thinking about it that way now. I do however have a problem with you comparing me to Ceci, but that is neither here nor there. Besides, how exactly did I put you down? (other than asking you to not play dumb)

Why should I stay in this? It's like pulling freaking teeth to get an answer to my questions!

Now this I resent. I think that I have been more than happy to supply you with answers to your questions.

Like I told HH, I don't need to stay in here and be abused. I have nothing to lose! You want to get your points across to white people, then do it! I'm here. I'm asking! But you guys treat me like I'm some kind of enemy! And I'm sick of it! Why should I stay?

I am truly amazed that you call this abuse whilst you took me calling you a hypocrite on gender issues with way more stride. Please, how have I dished out abuse to you in these threads?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And I told him to go play while the adults had a discussion. I don't even read his posts. He is not me and he does not represent me! No matter what he says. Only I get to put forth my opinion. He does not. But you're so willing and eager to let his opinions stand for me. Why? So I can still be the bad guy?

Have you EVER heard me say anything so lame as "Go back to Africa"??

And here we go again. DIDN'T I say that I wasn't accusing you of making comments like these? I know that you have a hard time understanding me, so I even clarified what I meant. What was it I said...oh, yeah...

Originally posted by truthseeka
Missing the point again.

Now, you missed the point about my asking you to reference other's posts. It was NOT because I was grouping you with them; it WAS because I was showing who REALLY is making juvenile, even racist, statements.

I clarified that, yet you STILL want to make this all about you. Why? I TOLD you this wasn't about you later in that post. I TOLD you that this is not "BH is the most horrible person in the world" crap. Why do you insist on making it like I said this? And you made a thread about the "victim mindset.":shk:

That isn't a "white woman" fighting with a "black man". That's an older woman talking with a younger man. And now you've taken to making fun of my age, like I should be embarrassed about it or something. If I wasn't proud to be the age I am and still be as open-minded and good-looking as I am, I would never have brought it up.

Please.

I only capped on your age when YOU gave the ole "young whippersnapper" rhetoric. Remember? Of course you do.

Your anger toward me blinds you, I'm afraid. You attack everything I say as if you NEED to hurt me. But you can't hurt me. It must be very frustrating.

I'm just sorry. I'm sorry we can't talk.
[edit on 2-3-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Why is this all about BENEVOLENT
HERETIC?!?!

I ain't trying to hurt you. Wasn't my intention. HOWEVER, YOU should consider how you've hurt another member here. Unfortunately, it was QUITE deliberate on your part. You know what I'm talking about...:shk:

[edit on 2-3-2007 by truthseeka]

Originally posted by truthseeka
Why is this all about BENEVOLENT
HERETIC?!?!

It's not.

Seriously though, name one other person who has seemed anywhere near as genuinely interested in "these"topics?