Real Talk about White Privilege

Personally, I find the fact that this topic is even around sickening and disheartening and I barely made it through the first page. Not once in my life have I ever been given anything for the color of my skin. I've been followed through stores simply because I was there walking around for too long. I've never been given a job because I am a reflection of the interviewer, I've been turned down for plenty of jobs that I was qualified for. I'm working full-time while trying to earn my degree and have student loans out the wazoo trying to keep my family above water so we don't go bankrupt and my son doesn't starve.

I hear so much about white privilege and yet I don't get any of the perks. Where is my free ride through school so I don't have to pay for it? Where is my six figure income to provide for my family? Why do I get followed through the store if all I'm doing is looking at stuff with my hands in my pockets? I've worked my butt off for everything I have, and will continue to work my butt off for the rest of my life to pay for it all.

There are plenty of non-famous dark skinned people who are much better off than me and mine. Just as there are plenty of light skinned people who are on the streets eating out of dumpsters. I don't care if you're black, white, blue, or purple, if all you do is sit on your rear end all day you aren't going to have anything or be anything that the government doesn't give you.

I firmly believe that everyone is equal mentally (with the exception of those with actual disabilities, and being dark skinned doesn't qualify as a disability. Sorry.) and there is absolutely no excuse for sitting around letting the government take care of you while you do nothing to help yourself. And no, I'm not pulling the "denial card" as the OP likes to call it. It's just the plain truth. Dark skinned people are no less capable than I am of graduating high school. They are no less capable of earning a college degree. They are no less capable of taking care of their families without relying on government assistance.

The problem here is that people in general, both black and white, are so busy pointing fingers at each other accusing each other of being racist to do anything else. Everyone wants to blame someone else for the problems in their lives, whether it's money, education, or that they didn't get that new job.


If you don't work for what you get it isn't worth anything. Having a diploma on your wall doesn't mean you know anything. Having money in the bank doesn't make you rich. And getting a job doesn't mean you're qualified for it. If you don't have the right skills for a certain job, you shouldn't get it. If someone else is more qualified than you, they should get the job over you. If you don't study in school (high school or college) you shouldn't graduate. If you don't go to work, you shouldn't have a paycheck coming. Doesn't matter what your skin color is, if you want something work for it. Don't just sit back and blame all your problems on someone else when you can fix it by getting up and doing something for yourself.

You all can say what you want about me, I don't care. This stuff is ridiculous and I refuse to be blamed for someone else's problems just because I'm white. Now if I rob you or fire you, then by all means blame me for that. But the chances of my robbing or firing anyone on this site are non-existent seeing as how I'm not a robber nor am I in a position of authority. Once the government starts paying for my house, food, and clothing, and gives me, my husband, and our son a free ride through college then we can talk about the privileges of being white.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Well, then...

All those forms that ask you for your race must be abolished, as they are racist. You see, these forms have a bubble called "White." This is clearly racist, according to you.

We better notify the Federal Census Bureau...

I actually am startled by those bubbles. I can get pretty tan, and sometimes I look cuban. But I'm a mix of European and Mid-East countries. Though, I'm sure if you go back 200,000 years or so, I'm also part African

So, when I fill them out: is it what I look like mostly? Or which ethnicity is the most recent?

The forms seem stupid to me. Sometimes I have the urge to pick OTHER, and write in about 15 different countries names, haha. It would be true, no?

Originally posted by semperfortis
It is perfectly acceptable for you to call me a "Pig" because of my profession..

It seems the OP has forgotten what it's like to be judged because of one aspect of himself. Is this yet another double standard I'm observing? Yes.

If I call a group of people a derogatory name (like tar babies, for example) which I never would, isn't that exactly the same thing as calling a group of people "pigs"? And what would I add to "tar babies" to equate it to "slop-eating pigs"? If I wrote it here it would no-doubt be edited... I would be called a confirmed bigot and rightly so.

I'm beginning to see more and more indications of "black privilege" here. (jsobecky mentions this on the previous page) While today's society calls for whites to be respectful to blacks and demands they be treated equally (which I agree that they should be) a black man can be as disrespectful and insolent to others as he wishes, using the excuse the he doesn't have "white privilege". That, in itself, is "black privilege". No wonder it's imperitive for the idea of "white privilege" be accepted and acknowledged by all whites. Because that gives non-whites license to hate and spew.

[edit on 28-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If I call a group of people a derogatory name (like tar babies, for example) which I never would, isn't that exactly the same thing as calling a group of people "pigs"?

I don't see how it is the same thing.

One term is motivated by racial hate, and the other isn't.

Originally posted by wagnerian21
Don`t ever let anyone shut down your thought process or your ability to ask questions by laughing at you.

That was such an excellent post. So true. I feel sad, actually, because I have a feeling I know what's behind the laughing...

Originally posted by wagnerian21
But one of the questions I`m asking is why it is that, when those other factors get brought up, invariably the person who mentions them gets shouted down by people who don`t want to hear about sexism, homophobia, or religious bigotry. Is one form of bigotry 'worse' than another form?

Certainly not. But IMO, there's an agenda being pushed here.

Hypothetically - If I'm very focused on the fact that most men don't treat me with the respect I deserve, and I think I should be compensated for that and someone brings up the fact that I'm white, wealthy, healthy and straight, and actually have it quite good in my life, that takes away from my argument that I'm being treated badly by men and deserve some recompense. Calling attention to other aspects of my life (that I should be grateful for) takes the wind out of my sails, as far as being a victim of mean men.

Originally posted by wagnerian21
Oh, and to Benevolent Heretic- my apologies for not quoting your post in full;

Actually, we're supposed to keep quotes to a minimun, editing out most of what we're responding to. If you just pick a sentence and respond to the whole post, that's fine. Big old honkin' quotes are frowned upon.

Jenna What an excellent post. Although I think this topic is important to discuss, I understand your revulsion and I'm so happy you responded.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
I don't see how it is the same thing.

One term is motivated by racial hate, and the other isn't.

Does it matter what kind of hatred it is?

My point is that using a vile, hateful name for a group of people is a choice, certainly. But let's call it what it is. It's bigotry fueled by hate. Why is "racial hate" special? It's not. If I hate you BECAUSE you're black or white or a cop or a woman or a Muslim and call you a vile, hateful name, I am a bigot. The flavor of my hatred matters not.



[edit on 28-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Benevolent Heretic, I agree it needs to be discussed as long as it is in a respectful insightful manner. But the attitudes of some of our fellow ATSers are absolutely horrendous when it comes to topics like this. If society continues as it is and our children are taught to blame everyone else for their problems instead of looking at themselves and what they could be doing to help themselves, I'm afraid of the world my son is going to grow up in. Personally, I don't see people as being different just because of their skin color and I fully intend for my son to be the same way. But how am I to explain to him when he grows up that those who are darker skinned blame him for their problems because at one point in history we may or may not have had ancestors who owned slaves? I have not personally done anything wrong to anyone because of the color of their skin and I refuse to feel bad for them and apologize for things I didn't do.

The fact is slavery is over, segregation is over, I wasn't even a twinkle in my daddy's eye when segregation was going on. In today's world no one can blame anyone for their situation in life except themselves and I'm tired of people trying to make me feel ashamed of being born white because of things I had no control over. I don't owe anyone anything (except my creditors but that's a different story ) and I'm sick of dark skinned people treating me and others who are lighter than them like we owe them the moon.

My family is Irish, my ancestors were turned away when they applied for jobs because they were Irish. Do I deserve reparations from those of English decent for how my ancestors were treated? I don't think I do. It didn't happen to me, therefore I deserve no special treatment. Same goes for dark skinned people today. It didn't happen to you, so you don't deserve special treatment for it.

I'm not denying that racism still exists. I know it does. I go to college in a primarily black neighborhood and every time I stop at the gas station on my way home I'm watched like a hawk like they think I'm going to steal something. Reverse racism at it's best. I'm a different color than they're used to so I must be up to something. However, racism isn't entirely to blame. If you live in a town where 90% of the population is black, 90% of your prison population will be black. I live in a town that is 90% white, guess what 90% of our prison population is. That's right, white. That's just statistics, not racism.

Originally posted by Jenna
But how am I to explain to him when he grows up that those who are darker skinned blame him for their problems

Well, first, be aware yourself that only some do. I've known plenty of black people who don't feel the same as has been expressed here. It's not a "black thing" in my experience. Some white people blame others for their problems. It's just that some people do. So, you don't have to bring race (or skin tone) into it at all. I know plenty of people who blame others for their problems. So, explain the victim mindset to your son and teach him how to be responsible and accountable. Leave race out of it.

That's my advice as a non-parent!

I'm tired of people trying to make me feel ashamed of being born white because of things I had no control over.

I hear you. And I think a lot of people also share that feeling. But as you know, you don't have to accept the guilt or shame. It's being offered, but you don't have to take it. I don't. And I get a lot of flack for it (if you've read over the race threads, you know that). But I can't control what others do. It's as simple as that. I can't control whether or not people offer me that guilt or shame, but I sure as hell can control whether or not I reach out and accept it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
My point is that using a vile, hateful name for a group of people is a choice, certainly. But let's call it what it is. It's bigotry fueled by hate. Why is "racial hate" special? It's not. If I hate you BECAUSE you're black or white or a cop or a woman or a Muslim and call you a vile, hateful name, I am a bigot. The flavor of my hatred matters not.
[edit on 28-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Hmm, I always differentiated between derogatory and hateful. The term pig is derogatory yes, not quite hateful though.

Apples and oranges, but there seems to be alot of that around here lately. I sure do hope all this nonsense clears up after today.

[edit on 28-2-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

You know I like you, phoenix. So, this isn't personal. But it seems a pretty convenient differentiation to make. I mean, how "hateful" is "tar-baby", really? Can you be sure that if I use that term, I'm feeling hatred? And "slop-eating pig" is just derogatory? Seems to be a handy delineation.

I'm just saying... you're certainly free to draw the line in there anywhere you wish, but it might be something to think about.

My point, though, has to do with calling a group of people a name. More specifically, if black people don't want to be grouped together with all black people and called something 'derogatory' like "Crack-heads" or "criminals", I do believe it's a bit hypocritical for TS to call another group of people (cops) "slop-eating pigs".

That's all.

HAHAHA ... I would have to vote this above top ... But ... You went to Electronics .... and As we all know ... Who runs Nasa for us ... If not go to Clear Lake in Houston ... and Notice hardly no WHITE'S ... LOL ..

Originally posted by etotheitheta
White privelege is what happens when whites beat everyone at discovering: America, calculus, thermodynamic laws, diesel/gas engines, contact process, wet process, coal technology, oil, oil refining, plastics, foams, rubbers, fibers, dyes, pigments, medicines, electronics, geology, etc.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
You know I like you, phoenix. So, this isn't personal. But it seems a pretty convenient differentiation to make. I mean, how "hateful" is "tar-baby", really? Can you be sure that if I use that term, I'm feeling hatred? And "slop-eating pig" is just derogatory? Seems to be a handy delineation.

It's not a handy delineation, it goes back to the history behind the use of the two terms, don't play dumb. Tar baby is a racial slur, pig is not, plain and simple.

I'm just saying... you're certainly free to draw the line in there anywhere you wish, but it might be something to think about.
My point, though, has to do with calling a group of people a name.
That's all.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm just saying... you're certainly free to draw the line in there anywhere you wish, but it might be something to think about.

The only thing for me to think about is the racist nonsense coming from this board the last month, which you have been more than a part of.

Just like those who have been equating Black Slavery with Irish indentured servitude, you are obfuscating and over-simplifying, then presenting a false analogy to suit your needs. Of course, you're certainly free to draw those sketchy lines whever you wish, somehow I doubt you will think much about it though.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
don't play dumb. Tar baby is a racial slur, pig is not, plain and simple.

Do you think I'm playing dumb? I know that tar baby is a racial slur and pig is not. Pig is a slur, nonetheless. I asked what makes "racial hate" special or less acceptable than sexist hate, religious hate, etc. I don't know. If you do, please tell me.

The only thing for me to think about is the racist nonsense coming from this board the last month, which you have been more than a part of.

Okay. Well focus on that then. I'm sorry you feel that way. This subject interests me. It's tough to talk about. I'm figuring out my thoughts as I go along and learn stuff. If that makes me racist in your eyes, I just have to live with that.

Just like those who have been equating Black Slavery with Irish indentured servitude, you are obfuscating and over-simplifying, then presenting a false analogy to suit your needs.

Well, tell me, then.
What did I obfuscate?
What did I over-simplify?
What false analogy did I present?

I'd be glad to think about it, but I can't unless I know what you're talking about. And just FYI (I know you didn't mean me), I never equated black slavery with Irish indentured servitude. I'm not educated enough to do that.

[edit on 28-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Well, tell me, then.
What did I obfuscate?
What did I over-simplify?
What false analogy did I present?

I'd be glad to think about it, but I can't unless I know what you're talking about.

Do you think I'm playing dumb? I know that tar baby is a racial slur and pig is not. Pig is a slur, nonetheless.

Yes, we have established that pig is a slur. You are simplifying by equating the two terms and ignoring the history, and useage behind them. It's not just as simple as calling names.

I asked what makes "racial hate" special or less acceptable than sexist hate, religious hate, etc. I don't know. If you do, please tell me.

When were we talking about sexist hate or religious hate or anything else? When did I ever say that one was more or less acceptable? This is the obfuscation, the clouding of the issue with extraneous information.

Since the term pig, is not coming from any kind of sexist, racist, or any other kind of hate, nor is the history of the word rooted in any kind of hate, it is therefore a false analogy to compare it to tar baby in this argument.

Okay. Well focus on that then. I'm sorry you feel that way. This subject interests me. It's tough to talk about. I'm figuring out my thoughts as I go along and learn stuff. If that makes me racist in your eyes, I just have to live with that.

You have been better than some, but why don't you think about your last analogy.

And just FYI (I know you didn't mean me), I never equated black slavery with Irish indentured servitude. I'm not educated enough to do that.

[edit on 28-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

I know, which is why I made sure to say "Just like".



[edit on 28-2-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Just like those who have been equating Black Slavery with Irish indentured servitude, you are obfuscating and over-simplifying, then presenting a false analogy to suit your needs. Of course, you're certainly free to draw those sketchy lines whever you wish, somehow I doubt you will think much about it though.

It's not the analogy that is important, it is the point behind it. I have no more right to demand restitution for the the treatment of my ancestors than anyone else, just as I don't believe that modern day descendants of the black slaves have any right to demand restitution for something they did not experience themselves.

I am fully aware of the difference between slavery and indentured servitude, but if you really want to get technical there are a lot of striking similarities. The main difference is indentured servants worked to pay their way out of it, slaves didn't have that opportunity except in extremely rare circumstances. (Extremely rare as in almost never.) The differences in the type of servitude really have no bearing on the analogy though.

Anyway, back on topic with me.

Since the term pig, is not coming from any kind of sexist, racist, or any other kind of hate, nor is the history of the word rooted in any kind of hate, it is therefore a false analogy to compare it to tar baby in this argument.

I would say the term pig when referencing police is a kind of hate. I have yet to hear anyone call a cop a pig and not mean it in a derogatory, hateful way. Perhaps things are different where you live, but where I'm from pig is not a term of endearment. So it's really not a false analogy either.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Well, first, be aware yourself that only some do. I've known plenty of black people who don't feel the same as has been expressed here. It's not a "black thing" in my experience.

I know it's not all. I have just as many black friends as white friends, so I know it's not a "black thing". I apologize for the generalization. Got in a hurry and didn't make sure my meaning was clear.

And for what it's worth, none of your comments have seemed racist to me!

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
You are simplifying by equating the two terms and ignoring the history, and useage behind them. It's not just as simple as calling names.

It feels very much the same to me. To be called or to call someone by any slur (m/w: an insulting or disparaging remark or innuendo : ASPERSION b : a shaming or degrading effect) whether it's racial or not, is... well... not cool, in my opinion. And racial slurs are no worse to me than others.

For a person who (no doubt) has been the object of racial slurs to hurl a derogatory and degrading name, knowing how much they can hurt people, strikes me as singularly hypocritical. So I said something about it.

(actually the name was "slop-eating swine", not pigs - just to be clear)

And I'm sorry. I don't see how the history of a name or a people makes a difference when one is calling a group of people a derogatory name. Can you explain that?

When were we talking about sexist hate or religious hate or anything else?

I was talking about a hate-based slur of the police. It's not based on sex or religion or race, but on profession. And I compared it to hatred of a race. Yes. I bring them all together. No one has yet explained to me what separates them. One is racial. So what? Why is it different?

When did I ever say that one was more or less acceptable?

You didn't, per se. But you made a distinction between them, saying one is derogatory and one is hateful. That is your opinion. I think they're both hateful. And I can't help but wonder how you know when truthseeka says "slop-eating swine" he's not coming from a place of hate but of derision.

And I say, "What's the difference"?

I thought you implied that a race-based slur is somehow less acceptable than any other. This is not obfuscation, I'm asking you to explain the difference you obviously see (and I do not).

Since the term pig, is not coming from any kind of sexist, racist, or any other kind of hate, nor is the history of the word rooted in any kind of hate,

What??? The history of calling cops "pigs" isn't rooted in hate??? It may not have started that way, but you cannot convince me that someone who calls cops "slop-eating swine" is coming from a place of love and respect. Or anything other than hatred!

I understand that racial hate has a "special place" in the hearts of some people. But I'm not one of them. If you could explain it to me, I might understand, but I doubt I'd agree as I've thought about this. But I'd still like you hear what you have to say. You never know. I'm not too old to learn.

And as it is, I'm thinking hatred and slurs, whether based on race, gender, nationality, religion, weight, profession or sexual preference are all pretty much the same thing. I am an equal opportunity thinker.

If you notice, I call people to the carpet when they say things based on any hatred or ignorance. I may not get them all (some aren't worth talking to), but I call them out equally.

Thanks BH, but don't waste too much time on TS slandering me..

Trust in that I have been called worse by far better.

One only need to go back over this thread and others like it to fully understand that sort of mentality... There are problems there far deeper than a simple uneducated insult.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
Thanks BH, but don't waste too much time on TS slandering me..

I know, Semper. And it's not for you that I do it. You don't need me. I do it for me. Regardless what anyone believes, I have a genuine interest and desire to understand these things. I also have the fantasy that I have something valuable to say. Not necessarily just to people posting here, but to those reading as well.

Trust in that I have been called worse by far better.

I can only imagine.

There are problems there far deeper than a simple uneducated insult.

I know. And that's what breaks my heart. That's what fuels my desire to understand. But I can only ask. If people won't answer and explain, how am I to understand? Not that anyone owes me an explanation...

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Since the term pig, is not coming from any kind of sexist, racist, or any other kind of hate, nor is the history of the word rooted in any kind of hate, it is therefore a false analogy to compare it to tar baby in this argument.

Well, if you want to split hairs, it is based upon hate - hate of authority.

There is no way you can defend the term "pig". It's meant to demean and dishonor. There is no difference, in my eyes, between calling a policeman a "pig" and calling a black man a "shine". The words are spit out of the mouth when used as such. That's hate.

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
HAHAHA ... I would have to vote this above top ... But ... You went to Electronics .... and As we all know ... Who runs Nasa for us ... If not go to Clear Lake in Houston ... and Notice hardly no WHITE'S ... LOL ..

Originally posted by etotheitheta
White privelege is what happens when whites beat everyone at discovering: America, calculus, thermodynamic laws, diesel/gas engines, contact process, wet process, coal technology, oil, oil refining, plastics, foams, rubbers, fibers, dyes, pigments, medicines, electronics, geology, etc.

I live in oak brook and went to clear lake high...most of the technicians at jsc are vietnamese/chinese/indian, but for the large part, the engineers are all white. Most of the people who live here are white but do not work for nasa, they work in the chemical industry.

BTW, to the above posters, tar baby is not a racial slur, you are thinking of turd baby.