Est. 300,000+ Innocent Iraqi's Killed

Originally posted by Connected

THAT IS WERE YOU ARE CONFUSED! There are MANY that want us there. MANY!!! More so than not.

PLEASE post a link to suppor this claim, PLEASE!! If you can...

Originally posted by LogansRun
Whos law are we referring to? We are an invading force in another persons country.

Originally posted by Connected
"Another persons country". Who's? Who owns Iraq? Please tell me. Nobody. They live there, but this is Earth, EVERYONES EARTH. Americans just want peace. Thats all. "Peace in the middle east" that is the oldest saying in the world, and it may soon happen.

Um, the Iraqis I would guess own Iraq. It is their country and all. You would just let another country come in here and take over because it is "everyones earth"? That is even stupider than your last post. Maybe I should put YOU on ignore then I wouldn't have to read such garbage! But you know, I wont. I still think it is possible to spread some common sense to others - even you.

Dont spout "peace in the middle east" you dont support this in the least. Americans just want peace? Yes, the average one does, for the most part. Do you support this war against Iraq? How does that promote peace? Hypocrite.

Originally posted by conspiracy_101
How dare some of you sit there and say these people did this to themselves. I've read your postings of soldiers passing out toys/candy to these kids (of course this is American media saying this). I saw one poster say

The GIANT irrational illogical leap that many make is that those deaths were at the hands of United States soldiers....Now, this simply IS NOT TRUE.

Apparently you must not have heard about the Haditha Killings, or how about the Iraqi kidnapping, or the Iraqi gang rape incident, or the Hamdaniya Killing, or the 3 soldiers with premeditated murder, or this frightening article. Maybe you chose not to see this. Let me hand out these quotes from the last article for those of you that chose to remain blind.

"The first time I shot someone, it was the most exhilarating thing I'd ever felt."

"We talk about killing all the time," he says. "I never used to talk this way. I'm not proud of it, but it's like I can't stop. I'm worried what I will be like when I get home."

"Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill," Hall says. "It's like it pounds at my brain. I'll figure out how to deal with it when I get home."

"I enjoy killing Iraqis," says Staff Sgt. William Deaton, 30.

American Soldiers Torturing Iraqi's to Death?

"Throw some candy in the schoolyard, watch the children gather round, lock a belt in your M-16, mow them little bastards down." Marine Training Chant as told by Chris White

We are monsters in this foreign land to those of you can't see this. We are every bit as responsible for these deaths as the suicide bombers there. OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE. You are thinking just the way they want you to, being that nothing is wrong, America is right.

That's a very small percentage of US servicemen doing those sorts of things. I assume you've never hung out with doctors, paramedics, firemen, police, etc.... if you think that only soldiers have morbid senses of humor. When one is around a lot of death, this sort of humor is a way of coping at times with the feelings. It doesn't mean that they actually condone the behaviors joked about.

Its like the orwellian double speak. War is Peace. They have created the terror, the wars, famines, fear, there were a myriad of ways they used to break you down and corrupt your reason, and in your fear, you turned to your government who offered you order, protection, security, and all they asked in return was for your silent obediant consent.

The result, a orwellian world where everything is monitored and controlled by the State, and where people who dont go along with the Agenda are labeled as terrorists. With the proper legislation, they can then legally take out these "terrorists". Its not only meant to happen in Iraq. The government wants to incarcerate any American opposed to the war.

Here is a quote from a major Nazi.

"Why of course the common people dont want war. Why would some slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war, when the best he could get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people dont want war, neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship. Voice or nor voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for their lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Herman Goering, second in command to Hitler.

I think another quote is appropriate.

"The Lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic, and or military consequences of the Lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the Truth is the mortal enemy of the Lie, and thus by extention, the Truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State." - Nazi Propaganda Minister, Joseph Goebbels.

Thats all you need to know to figure out whats going on.

[edit on 23-2-2007 by LightWorker13]

A small percentage sure, only a small percentage that is reported and somehow got leaked out. The Marine chant may be fun and games, but the other quotes were not. Those were real soldiers saying how they felt. It was psychologists wondering how these men would cope when brought back to the states. Read the article.

Originally posted by conspiracy_101
A small percentage sure, only a small percentage that is reported and somehow got leaked out. The Marine chant may be fun and games, but the other quotes were not. Those were real soldiers saying how they felt. It was psychologists wondering how these men would cope when brought back to the states. Read the article.

I'm not doubting that war changes people, resulting in them speaking about it like that. It's an unnatural environment to find one's self I can assure you. What are you basing your belief that US servicemen are committing great numbers of attrocities on? The men and women I've served with are some of the finest folks I've met, and in almost all cases show great professionalism. We take great umbrage at those that give us bad names, but also at those that accuse us of BS.

Originally posted by Jimmy1880
Please stop attacking this thread, if you want to spew pro-war propaganda do it on another threead there are plenty on this forum but please let the thread do its intended thing!

And what thing is that? To spread pro islam BS? This is a forum and by its very definition we debate. I think your numbers are full of crap. Leaving that aside I do think that we should be killing the people that would spread their way of life and try to destroy our nation. If you feel so bad and think their way of life is so nice move there.

I suspect you are one of them. You would love to do to our nation what they have done to all Muslim nations wouldn't you? In fact you are starting it right here by trying to force a one sided debate of the issue.

It won't work here pal. But if you feel you must spew your self rightious indignation go right ahead. Just remember we will be here to call a liar a liar. Have a nice day Osama...

Mod Note: PLEASE get with the program and STOP the petty name calling "personality focus" instead of issue focus.

[edit on 25-2-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by Perplexed

Originally posted by Jimmy1880
Please stop attacking this thread, if you want to spew pro-war propaganda do it on another threead there are plenty on this forum but please let the thread do its intended thing!

And what thing is that?

If you read the opening post it states;

"I wanted to make this thread as a tribute to those innocent civilians who have suffered and lost their lives due to this senseless war"

Originally posted by Perplexed
And what thing is that? To spread pro islam BS? This is a forum and by its very definition we debate. I think your numbers are full of crap. Leaving that aside I do think that we should be killing the people that would spread their way of life and try to destroy our nation. If you feel so bad and think their way of life is so nice move there.

I suspect you are one of them. You would love to do to our nation what they have done to all Muslim nations wouldn't you? In fact you are starting it right here by trying to force a one sided debate of the issue.

It won't work here pal. But if you feel you must spew your self rightious indignation go right ahead. Just remember we will be here to call a liar a liar. Have a nice day Osama...

Take a pill.

War supporters are making a last ditch effort to defend this failed excuse for a war. They are clawing at anything to try and avoid the truth. They will eventually realize it, if not already...

This thread isn't really up for debate. The fact is that people are dead, a LOT of people, whether its 100 thousand, 300 thousand or 600 thousand. Does it matter how many? It is still just as wrong as the day we attacked. American soldiers, pawns, have been sacrificed. Innocent Iraqi''s, far to many, have been slaughtered for nothing.

The administrations propaganda machine is starting to break down as more and more lies are exposed. So keep spewing your hate and your lies, and we will keep spreading the truth.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
... and people still post this as if it were fact, when in truth it has been DEBUNKED numerous times.

...numerous times? you say. OK, then it shouldn't be hard to show us just one of those times. LINK, please.

.. the number of children who died during the years after Gulf War I can not be determined due to SADDAM inflating the numbers. But the fact remains that any children who died due to not getting medical care or proper food falls on SADDAM. HE is the one that stole the billions in the Oil for Food program. Those billions were to go to get food and medicine for the people of Iraq and SADDAM is the one to blame for when people died during that time. NOT America.

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

60 Minutes (5/12/96)

From the same link.

It's worth noting that on 60 Minutes, Albright made no attempt to deny the figure given by Stahl--a rough rendering of the preliminary estimate in a 1995 U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) report that 567,000 Iraqi children under the age of five had died as a result of the sanctions.
....

In fact, oil-for-food money is administered by the U.N., and disbursed directly from a U.S. bank account to foreign suppliers, so direct misappropriation of funds is impossible. Allegations about misappropriation of goods on the other end have repeatedly been denied by U.N. officials administering the program in Iraq (e.g. Denis Halliday, press release, 9/20/99), a fact that has garnered virtually no media coverage (Extra!, 3-4/00).

Please, go read the whole story.

Not sure you will, so I'll give you this one to contemplate on.

Even before the September 11 attacks, bombing of Iraq had dramatically increased. In February 2001, two dozen U.S. and British planes attacked Iraqi radar installations, some of them out of the "no-fly" zones. In August and early September, there were at least six more pre-planned attacks to degrade Iraqi air defense. This was part of a comprehensive plan for multiple strikes, with a U.S. government official quoted (on MSNBC, 9/14/01) as saying "Hitting targets one by one doesn't draw the same kind of attention or reaction. It takes longer, but it should eventually get the job done." It's certainly true that the bombing campaign didn't receive much notice from a Gary Condit-fixated media.

Please note the sources before you say,

Anti-American propaganda. And this propaganda isn't even new. It's old debunked crap that has been dug up and that some folks are trying to make stick again.

...old debunked crap. OK, once more, let's have just one of those debunking sources. Links, links pleeease!!

Here's an article from The Gaurdian, March 4, 2000. And yes it is biased, as are the snippets I here bring forth, but at least they are founded by quotes and reffferences, and not merely just lies like some here want to press as facts. These are true, you can check yourself.

Half a million children have died in Iraq since UN sanctions were imposed - most enthusiastically by Britain and the US. Three UN officials have resigned in despair. Meanwhile, bombing of Iraq continues almost daily. John Pilger investigates

Dr Jawad Al-Ali, a cancer specialist and member of Britain's Royal College of Physicians. "Our own studies indicate that more than 40 per cent of the population in this area will get cancer: in five years' time to begin with, then long afterwards. Most of my own family now have cancer, and we have no history of the disease. It has spread to the medical staff of this hospital. We don't know the precise source of the contamination, because we are not allowed to get the equipment to conduct a proper scientific survey, or even to test the excess level of radiation in our bodies. We suspect depleted uranium, which was used by the Americans and British in the Gulf War right across the southern battlefields."
....
"For us doctors," said Dr Al-Ali, "it is like torture. We see children die from the kind of cancers from which, given the right treatment, there is a good recovery rate." Three children died while I was there.
....

This is a war against the children of Iraq on two fronts: bombing, which in the last year cost the British taxpayer £60 million. And the most ruthless embargo in modern history. According to Unicef, the United Nations Children's Fund, the death rate of children under five is more than 4,000 a month - that is 4,000 more than would have died before sanctions.
....

"The change in 10 years is unparalleled, in my experience," Anupama Rao Singh, Unicef's senior representative in Iraq, told me. "In 1989, the literacy rate was 95%; and 93% of the population had free access to modern health facilities. Parents were fined for failing to send their children to school. The phenomenon of street children or children begging was unheard of. Iraq had reached a stage where the basic indicators we use to measure the overall well-being of human beings, including children, were some of the best in the world. Now it is among the bottom 20%. In 10 years, child mortality has gone from one of the lowest in the world, to the highest."
....
Ten years ago, 92% of the population had safe water, according to Unicef. Today, drawn untreated from the Tigris, it is lethal. Touching two brothers on the head, the head said, "These children are recovering from dysentery, but it will attack them again, and again, until they are too weak." Chlorine, that universal guardian of safe water, has been blocked by the Sanctions Committee. In 1990, an Iraqi infant with dysentery stood a one in 600 chance of dying. This is now one in 50.

A courtly, eloquent Irishman, Denis Halliday resigned as co-ordinator of humanitarian relief to Iraq in 1998, after 34 years with the UN; he was then Assistant Secretary-General of the United Nations, one of the elite of senior officials. He had made his career in development, "attempting to help people, not harm them". His was the first public expression of an unprecedented rebellion within the UN bureaucracy. "I am resigning," he wrote, "because the policy of economic sanctions is totally bankrupt. We are in the process of destroying an entire society. It is as simple and terrifying as that . . . Five thousand children are dying every month . . . I don't want to administer a programme that results in figures like these."

When I first met Halliday, I was struck by the care with which he chose uncompromising words. "I had been instructed," he said, "to implement a policy that satisfies the definition of genocide: a deliberate policy that has effectively killed well over a million individuals, children and adults. We all know that the regime, Saddam Hussein, is not paying the price for economic sanctions; on the contrary, he has been strengthened by them.
....

Western governments have had a gift in the "butcher of Baghdad", who can be safely blamed for everything. Unlike the be-headers of Saudi Arabia, the torturers of Turkey and the prince of mass murderers, Suharto, only Saddam Hussein is so loathsome that his captive population can be punished for his crimes. British obsequiousness to Washington's designs over Iraq has a certain craven quality, as the Blair government pursues what Simon Jenkins calls a "low-cost, low-risk machismo, doing something relatively easy, but obscenely cruel".

This was in 2000, now it's not that easy ...just devilish so much more cruel.

SHAME! :fl

Originally posted by BlueRaja
www.iraqbodycount.org...

According to this database, even the 300,000 figure is 5x or 6x too high, unless all the extra bodies have been cleverly hidden by the insurgents/locals to keep the true numbers unknown.

iraq body count only tallies up the number of civilian casualities reported by news agencies

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by BlueRaja
www.iraqbodycount.org...

According to this database, even the 300,000 figure is 5x or 6x too high, unless all the extra bodies have been cleverly hidden by the insurgents/locals to keep the true numbers unknown.

iraq body count only tallies up the number of civilian casualities reported by news agencies

Can you cite the source for that? The official numbers come from Hospital reports, the Iraqi Ministry of Health, news reports, etc... When Iraqi civilians are wrongfully killed, the US pays the families that report it. If all of these additional folks had died, I guarantee you, you'd hear about Iraqis coming forward themselves, to get some sort of compensation. We saw folks trying to scam us as well, inflating numbers so they could get payments, while I was there.

Call me a bleeding heart conservative or what you wilt. I have a daughter her age and I can only imagine what the father of that child feels. They must be so thankful they are liberated.



[edit on 24-2-2007 by rich1974]