Dulce Underground Base Alien War Question

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by yfxxx
And by the way, your Schopenhauer quote and your earlier reference to Giordano Bruno appear to imply that you see yourself as an unrecognized genius equal to great scientists like, say, Copernicus or Galileo. Am I the only one, who thinks this is a bit presumptuous?

There has always been a very fine line between genius and madness. On which side do you suspect I presume myself to be?

I suspect you would be wrong.

Thank you very much for making my point, Mr. Lear.

Regards
yf

Originally posted by TheStev
How does simply mentioning 2 renowned figures in world history equate to a belief that one is on par with them?

In light of Mr. Lear's latest posting, where he says ...

Originally posted by johnlear
There has always been a very fine line between genius and madness. On which side do you suspect I presume myself to be?

I suspect you would be wrong.

... , I think that he actually does believe he is a genius. He doesn't say so directly, but the combination of the rhetorical question (the answer of which he knows perfectly well) and the subsequent statement doesn't leave much room for interpretation.

Regards
yf


[edit on 27.3.2007 by yfxxx]

Originally posted by amfirst
I got the whole story on the Dulce War. Check it out, very amazing. I don't know what to believe. Pretty creative if it's fake.

I always found the COSCON (Branton papers) a wealth of very interesting information. I talked to Dave several times. I have a hard copy printout of the COSCON files and it takes up most of a 3 inch binder.

Branton is a tireless and relentless researcher of strange phenomena, probably comparable to Charles Fort.

Originally posted by yfxxx

... , I think that he actually does believe he is a genius. He doesn't say so directly, but the combination of the rhetorical question (the answer of which he knows perfectly well) and the subsequent statement doesn't leave much room for interpretation.

My suspicions are confirmed.

Originally posted by Ghost01
I have only one real question about Mr. Lear's Dulce Story- Why?

Why did you push Dulce as fact and spend so much time trying to fool people into thinking they were real.

....you decided to lie to the world and try to scam researchers into thinking this was real! Now, instead of being rich and famous as a literary genious, you're loosing people's respect because you lied.

Why John, why?

Tim

This post isn't intended to be an insault to Mr. Lear, but I sincerely hope it gives you a few minutes of reflection!

Your posts are always welcome Tim, they add an extra dimension to the thread and probably reflect the opinions of many others.

But Tim, with all due respect, please listen to me: You are 25 years old. You have got to learn how to spell..

So no actual evidence then?

Edited to make it longer than one line.

[edit on 27-3-2007 by Mike_A]

we're better off if the dulce story isnt real.... if its real, then we're in big trouble.

Originally posted by Mike_A
So no actual evidence then?

Edited to make it longer than one line.

Mike_A, what would you accept as 'actual evidence'? Please be specific. I will see what I can do.

What would I consider evidence? Anything that fits the dictionary definition of evidence.

For the purposes of this thread I would consider “actual evidence” to be something that is verifiable, from an unbiased, first hand source that suggests the existence of an underground base at Dulce.

Though the real question is what do you consider evidence, provide that and let other make informed decisions.

Originally posted by Ghost01
I really believe you could have made a fortune from it. However, instead of cashing in on your creative talent and adding Famous Novelist to your resume', you decided to lie to the world and try to scam researchers into thinking this was real! Now, instead of being rich and famous as a literary genious, you're loosing people's respect because you lied.

Why John, why?

Tim


[edit on 3/27/2007 by Ghost01]

Sometimes people have trouble accepting and understanding that other people may behave differently in a situation of control and personal gain, than they themselves would?

It seems to really bother you that he has chosen the non profitable pathway.

So far i've seen not one hint of John wishing to profit from anything here, nor does he seem to enjoy his position of authority. I just see a man wanting to tell his stories.

When a person has given out as much info here as John has, their agendas eventually become self evident.

It seems quite evident to most here, that what i stated about John above is true.

Most people who have a problem with him here are either
a) New.
b) Way too skeptical. Relax a little.
c) Jealous.

Originally posted by Mike_A
What would I consider evidence? Anything that fits the dictionary definition of evidence.

For the purposes of this thread I would consider “actual evidence” to be something that is verifiable, from an unbiased, first hand source that suggests the existence of an underground base at Dulce.

Webster's 21st Century dictionary:

ev'i-dence 1. matter supporting an argument. 2. make evident

Sorry Mike_A, let me respectfully suggest that you will have to do way, way, way better than that. What specifically do you consider evidence of the existence of a Joint US/Alien underground base near the town of Dulce?

Though the real question is what do you consider evidence, provide that and let other make informed decisions.

We have already been through this Mike_A. I am totally convinced that Dulce exists. I am not trying to sell anybody that Dulce exists. It doesn't matter to me what they believe or why. If others want to make informed decisions then they should gather that evidence themselves because nothing I could or would provide would be enough.

As I have mentioned before nobody is going to get evidence of Dulce existence sitting on a chair in front of a screen. I would suggest a back back of a sleeping bag, a camera, a few days of provisions then hike up on the top of the Archuletta Mesa and spend a few days and nights hiking around. If you are not willing to do that then you are probably not all that interested in finding out about whether or not the Joint US/Alien base of Dulce really exists.

So you won’t or can’t provide any evidence then? Is that correct?


Out of interest what makes your truth different to the “propaganda” that “they” produce? Without reasoned evidence isn’t what you say just propaganda?

Dude..

JL clearly wrote:

What specifically do you consider evidence of the existence of a Joint US/Alien underground base near the town of Dulce?

its kinda like McDonalds: "which hamburger would you like sir, we have various kinds to choose from".

specify your request and the answer might come!

[edit on 27-3-2007 by shadow fax]

Originally posted by Mike_A
So you won’t or can’t provide any evidence then? Is that correct?

What kind of evidence would you prefer? A notarized statement by a current security guard at Dulce? Maybe a picture of the inside of the Dulce labs, showing human body parts floating in a large vat? Maybe a video tape of a hallway where little grey aliens pass back and forth?

Or maybe the cafeteria with all kinds of weird aliens having human scientists and security guards for lunch? How about a hand drawn diagram of all 7 levels with notations of which level is which with a notation by VP Cheney that this is the real thing? Perhaps a 30 second cassette tape of the screams of agony and despair from "nightmare hall". (If nothing else you can take it and get an evening with Art Bell and we won't have to listen to Mel's Hole anymore.)

Don't be bashful Mike_A, SPEAK UP! What evidence would you accept that you would post on this thread, "By Gosh! I now totally believe John Lear that a Joint US/Alien 'Underground base exists near Dulce, New Mexico!"

Out of interest what makes your truth different to the “propaganda” that “they” produce?

Please refresh my memory Mike_A..what is my 'truth' and what is 'their propanganda'? Thanks.

Without reasoned evidence isn’t what you say just propaganda?

Ahh! "Reasoned evidence". Perhaps you could be just a teeny tiny bit more explicit. If you would like me talk in a "logical way' you are going to have to let me know exactly what it is you want me to talk about. (Please see above.) Thanks for your post Mike_A, most enjoyable.

Originally posted by T0by
It seems to really bother you that he has chosen the non profitable pathway.

Not at All! What is bugging me is that John continues to try to pass this Story off as truth, when it has Clearly is NOT TRUE! My point with the novels wasn't the money, it's the fact that when you publish a work of fiction, Everyone knows it's NOT real.

If John Lear would have published the Dulce Papers as a work of Fiction, simular to the works I mentioned, he would still have gotten the credit he wanted, without having to LIE!

Why? Why did John Publish the Dulce Papers as Real documents when he has always known they were Fakes? Why did John Lear have to LIE?

Tim

Originally posted by Ghost01
Why? Why did John Publish the Dulce Papers as Real documents when he has always known they were Fakes? Why did John Lear have to LIE?

Cool it, Tim . Mr. Lear didn't (and doesn't) conciously lie, because he believes what he says. It's utterly pointless to ask why he didn't publish the "Dulce Papers" as fiction - nobody will publish something as fiction when they are convinced that it's the actual reality. As for why he believes all this (and other, sometimes even more ridiculous conspiracy theories) ... I think that's not anyone's business to discuss in public.

Regards
yf

I would like to see whatever evidence you can provide; if you consider it good reason to believe that there is a secret underground base at Dulce then I don’t see the problem in providing it.

It is not for me or anyone else to say what evidence we want, when Darwin proposed the theory of evolution he didn’t say “hey, we’re all monkey! Don’t believe me go figure it out for yourself!” Right now it seems like you’re just trying to distract from the lack of any evidence whatsoever.


I’ll be honest with you, right now I don’t believe you and it is doubtful that you can post anything that will make me say “wow I’m a believer”. However you could provide enough evidence to make me think there could be something in this; I don’t believe aliens are visiting the Earth but some cases with testimonials from reputable people and whatnot do keep my mind open to the possibility.

Originally posted by Ghost01
Why did John Lear have to LIE?

Tim

Tim, this is the 5th time in 3 days that you have called me a liar. If you are going to keep that up you need to post proof exactly what I lied about.

As of now, your personal conduct is a violation of the T&C of Above Top Secret. Either you post proof that I lied or post an apology. If all you have is an opinion that I lied then you need to make that clear. Thank you in advance for your gentlemanly retraction and future conduct.

the cafeteria with all kinds of weird aliens having human scientists and security guards for lunch

i would like to see this, pretty please.

just dropped in....

Originally posted by johnlear
What kind of evidence would you prefer?

Ok, let's go ...

Most importantly, no testimonials (by no-one, not even the POTUS ), only physical evidence! We've had enough stories by now.

For starters, the evidence could be:
- Photographs of artifacts on the surface of the alleged facility, like e.g. vents, access doors, surveillance equipment, intrusion sensors, whatever. Photos must include a readable display of a hand-held GPS receiver, so that others can independently verify the location of said artifacts. There must be some access to the facility, and because the surface is allegedly no restricted area, one should be able to obtain such photographic evidence.
- Videos of operations near the alleged base, in a quality which makes it possible to actually discern something. Nighttime video which shows only blobs of light won't do. Again, a GPS display must be in frame at least once.

(As for the GPS data requirement, it's simply necessary because otherwise you could photograph/film just about anything anywhere.)

More advanced evidence would involve smuggling of material by base personnel. So, photographs and videos from inside the base would be appreciated, together with GPS receiver data.

So far, all this evidence could also be faked. Therefore the more complex (and therefore difficult to fake for amateurs) a video is, the more compelling it is as evidence. Therefore I exclude printed documents, because these are just too easy to fake.. Sorry, but extraordinary claims require more than "vanilla" evidence.

Finally, the best evidence would of course be physical artifacts, like, say, an alien tool. I think we can assume that the aliens brought some of their hardware themselves. A metallurgic lab can quickly prove, if some artifact is of terrestrial origin or not. At least, a piece of metal which could be extraterrestrial takes more means to fake than are available to the general public. I agree that such an alien artifact would only be very strong evidence of the presence of extraterrestrials on this planet, but not necessarily at Dulce. However, if someone proves that the ETs are here, I'll grant you the existence of Dulce for free .

So, that's it. Now, Mr. Lear, please show us any evidence as defined above. But I won't hold my breath ...

Regards
yf

P.S.: @Mike_A: Do you want to add anything, which could count as evidence, too?