I’m coming clean on Extraterrestrials

I think people are sick of this alien hide and seek game that's been played for hundreds of years. If sleepers aliens are real they better show up or shut up.

This isn't debatable.

Originally posted by Navieko
I still don't see the logic in this. If anything is possible, it could be just as possible that many of OUR thoughts are constructed through alien implants.
It's like me asking you if your willingness to debunk Sleeper is created through extreterrestrial manipulation.

WELL IS IT?!

Just because something is possible, it doesn't mean it is at all likely.

Seeing as the rest of the points I make STILL come back to this one, Let's focus here for a bit, if you will.

You said a lot here, and I agree with everything you posted, except for the claim that you don't understand the logic. You nailed it pretty well. Can I claim with 100% assurance that my reality isn't a construct of an alien memory implant?

No, I can't.

But who won't make that claim? Who is so closed minded to the possibility that his experiences (experiences lacking any type of evidence) could be nothing more than pathelogical delusion or some type of memory implant?

Just because something is possible, it doesn't mean it is at all likely.

Right?

24"Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"
29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

This is what Jesus says about husbands and wives in Heaven, found in Matthew 22

www.biblegateway.com...

It is fair to say, wether Sleeper is Demon posessed or if Milton is some type of Angel (for lack of a better word). There seems to be some information regarding this issue, that has been left out of the Bible, for one reason or another. It just doesn't seem as important in the spiritual realm.

In other texts we also read that Marriage to one wife was instituted because we are such a stiff necked bunch regarding this. Is that where some of you fit in, with regards to Sleeper donating sperm?

If you are using Biblical authority for this stance on reproduction (which is a human thing), the Bible does not confirm it. The actual Commandment was "You shall not covet your neighbours ox", not "wife" which is what we are told by the Bible translators.

That was brought up in another thread about a 2000 year old stone in New Mexico, here in ATS if you want to see what other members say about that Commandment..

Originally posted by HankMcCoy
2. If these aliens have the power to manipulate memories, is it possible that everything he is experiencing is nothing more than false memories?

Originally posted by Navieko
Just because something is possible, it doesn't mean it is at all likely.

If you read some more alien reports you will see that this scenario is not unlikely. It very much looks like that alot of the stranger stories comes from manipulated memories in some cases confirmed through 'recirculation' session. And because there is almost everytime manipulation in play in connection with aliens (the simpelst: lost of memory for that periode) the stories are also more than often not fault free. I bet sleepers story would very fast brake apart if he came out with more checkable things. Reading his blog Milton appears as a very manipulative figure to me and one that does not hold back with it's skills.

So even if (big if) sleepers story is true in the meaning that he experienced what he tells I would be very very carefully with takeing the told things as real without questioning their reality.

It is my understanding that sleeper is withholding a lot of information. The "true" version would end up in a locked thread within 2 pages because it would be too challenging for most to accept. Our reality and global perception would not allow the story to be told, only the watered down version, because our only frames of reference would lead us to a conclusion of fear, control, manipulation, slavery et al. Who would accept that this is by design? Who would accept that this is also a good thing? Out of 6.5 billion, I would say about 100,000 perhaps much less. The truth is sort of paradoxical to our existence.. or at least... our perception of our existence.

Disclosure? Forget it. If the truth is what I think it is, I wouldn't share it and there are countless people reading these boards who also wouldn't... and don't. When (if) I get more confirmation of what it's all about, I'm keeping my mouth shut.. period.

We live on a low level planet and think the only thing above us is God. It's a joke, a complete and utter joke some of the things we accept as real or fact. 99.9% of people will get the answers when they die, it's lucky the ego isn't the same in that reality or we'd all feel such idiots but it's all good.

Of course, this is my opinion... I don't know anything. Not a sausage. In fact, the only thing I know is how much I don't know.

$0.01
*returns to lurk mode*

Original Ancient texts and teachings which the bible is compiled from - - may have come from early advanced beings - and/or those of true spiritual inspiration:

But IMO - Today's bible is a work of Man - translated and manipulated to fit Man's human frailties/vulnerabilites - fear - jealously - anger - control - power - etc.

IMO the bible is like the comic book - - of what the "Chirist" consciousness really is. I believe it to be a consciousness that has taken many forms to pass on englightenment and spiritual wisdom.

I personally have a problem when someone tries to use the bible as a reference.

As this is not the Bible thread - - moving on:

Chief Seattle: "This we know: the Earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the Earth. This we know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. All things are connected. Whatever befalls the Earth, befalls the sons of the Earth. Man did not weave the thread of life; he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself."


QUESTION: Normally - to evolve - be promoted - advance - - one must take action to be deemed worthy of a higher position. I see this as a higher understanding - - rather then a physical act.

Originally posted by win 52
If you are using Biblical authority for this stance on reproduction (which is a human thing), the Bible does not confirm it. The actual Commandment was "You shall not covet your neighbours ox", not "wife" which is what we are told by the Bible translators.

Not that it matters to me, but in the spirit of factual accuracy..

You are misquoting the 10th Commandment (If you are sourcing Exodus)when the 7th is VERY cut and dry, according to KJV it simply states 'Thou shalt not commit adultery'.

Don't have sex with one that isn't your wife.

As for the 10th.. It is not as limiting as you are claiming here. Moses makes it clear what the intent of 10 is and not much is lost in the translation. 10 deals more with plotting to obtain that which God has given to another, hence the emphasis on COVETING.

Again, not that it matters to me, I just wanted to get it down in the record of the thread.

The idea that 'Mike' cheated on his wife is something HE brought up independantly of any spiritual docterine, or at least that is how I see it.

Originally posted by Annee
QUESTION: Normally - to evolve - be promoted - advance - - one must take action to be deemed worthy of a higher position. I see this as a higher understanding - - rather then a physical act.

A higher understanding can facilitate a physical act, and give it real meaning---sure sounds like a fortune cookie answer---

A high school student can’t get into college without grasping concepts of advanced study; ok they can but should they?

We can skate through this life without learning anything or much of anything, but that ends at the exit door. On the other side, off planet earth, they expect and demand results. Higher understanding is not an easy gig, but it’s more fun.

No one can cheat or nap their way up the ladder of illumination. Nevertheless, many will not know or understand their level of enlightened while under the cloak of illusion here on earth---why we do the things we do determines our level of understanding---and that can only be done in a blind test ---

LOL - - well I do understand - us being physical beings - it is kind of hard to get away without doing physical stuff.

My "guys" keep telling me - "Let go of physical - let go of physical" - maybe they're trying to starve me LOL

This is good - - they - the "guys" - tell me to reach up to the top of my head and pull down a big imaginary zipper to my toes. Then they say - imagine you are like the light beings from the movie Cocoon - - after your human suit is unzipped - - float up - out - and away from it.

I'm not suppose to struggle - - just release and float

I wonder who wrote that script - - whoever did - - I'd say they are ET "connected"

You believe that they are pretend demons. How come its so hard to have god and aliens? I believe in god and I believe that there is life out there.

It is hard for everyone to pin down a concise and unanimous answer to all of this. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Like, one person's savior is another person's slaver. Angels, demons, aliens, these are all personal opinions/reactions to what is going on. I think there is a general acknowledgement that something is going on, but are we arguing over semantics? It is all about perception, the whole enchilada. Some believe in aliens, and those that do are split between good and bad intentions. It is the same with God, some see it as merciful, some see it as wrath. To me, I think it is more important to SEE. We get so caught up in our opinions, just like I am spouting right now. My opinion is that we are all too opinionated to see it exactly as the next person. That is why this topic, like so many topics in our brains, are enigmatic. We are just too damn smart to make things black and white. Is that what people want? An answer, yes or no, is Sleeper telling the truth? Yes or no- are we being visited? But will we really be satisfied with the answer? Logically, the very next question is why? THe why is slippery, and that is the reason this thread has gone on for so long. Should we be skeptical-yes. Why? Because perception is questionable. No two points of view are going to coincide, so the debate is exhausting. Sleeper is telling a story that is real in his perception, and may mirror the experience of other people on this board, or others that have shied (shyed?) away from this topic altogether. Perhaps the real point is finding common ground and sharing it, which is what community is supposed to be about. Sitting around and judging Mike for "screwing around" is missing the point. Do you believe it is wrong to cheat on your spouse? Good for you, don't do it. But there is a much bigger issue than Earthly mores and Biblical no-nos. THat is my two cents, suspect at best, bulls--- at worst.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by TheMayor]

[edit on 20-2-2007 by TheMayor]

Thank you - Mayor.

Now - can we hear more from Sleeper? That is why I am here.

Didn't Milton tell Sleeper that only one spirit 'entity' could 'fit' into a human 'container' at one time?

This sort of contradicts the Bible. I know Sleeper is a Biblical scholar, having written a book about Biblical stories, so he should probably know?

Does Milton say Jesus is a liar? Because the Bible says Jesus cast out thousands of these evil 'entities' out of one single man alone.

So how many evil 'entities' can possess a 'container'?

This quote is from Mark 5:

Then Jesus asked him, "What is your name?"

"My name is Legion," he replied, "for we are many." And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.

A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. The demons begged Jesus, "Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them." He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.

Those tending the pigs ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. Those who had seen it told the people what had happened to the demon-possessed man—and told about the pigs as well. Then the people began to plead with Jesus to leave their region.

The hostile people there probably did more than just 'plead' with him to leave? They probably would have prefered to keep the pigs, to sell them, and probably thrown in the pig-possessing 'demons' free of charge. Human nature? Well, you know the story, what Jesus got for trying to be a nice guy.

Thanks again.


[edit on 2/21/2007 by Rudolph_X]

Originally posted by Rudolph_X
Didn't Milton tell Sleeper that only one spirit 'entity' could 'fit' into a human 'container' at one time?

This sort of contradicts the Bible. I know Sleeper is a Biblical scholar, having written a book about Biblical stories, so he should probably know?

Does Milton say Jesus is a liar? Because the Bible says Jesus cast out thousands of these evil 'entities' out of one single man alone.

So how many evil 'entities' can possess a 'container'?

This quote is from Mark 5:

Then Jesus asked him, "What is your name?"

"My name is Legion," he replied, "for we are many." And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.

A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. The demons begged Jesus, "Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them." He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.

Those tending the pigs ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. Those who had seen it told the people what had happened to the demon-possessed man—and told about the pigs as well. Then the people began to plead with Jesus to leave their region.

The hostile people there probably did more than just 'plead' with him to leave? They probably would have prefered to keep the pigs, to sell them, and probably have thrown in the pig-possessing 'demons' free of charge. Human nature? Well, you know the story, what Jesus got for trying to be a nice guy.

Thanks again.

The Bible? Ha.
Don't get me started...

Are you certain you know what Sleeper's intentions were with this book? Did you read it? Don't be certain he agrees with the bible, just because his book is about "Jesus".

There are MANY books being written that reveal the lies of that book too, you know.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by Navieko]

Originally posted by Navieko

The Bible? Ha.
Don't get me started...

Are you certain you know what Sleeper's intentions were with this book? Did you read it? Don't be certain he agrees with the bible, just because his book is about "Jesus".

There are MANY books being written that reveal the lies of that book too, you know.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by Navieko]

Well, then. You seem to be familiar with Sleepers material?

No, I haven't read his books. (Are you saying his book is Anti-Christian?)

So, since you know so much, tell us...

Milton says the 'container' can only be possessed by one entity, whereas the Bible states it can contain Legions. Is Sleeper's 'Milton' calling Jesus a liar?


[edit on 2/21/2007 by Rudolph_X]

Originally posted by sleeper
No one can cheat or nap their way up the ladder of illumination. Nevertheless, many will not know or understand their level of enlightened while under the cloak of illusion here on earth---why we do the things we do determines our level of understanding---and that can only be done in a blind test ---

This post right here contradicts your entire STORY so far!

Why why WHY would Milton show himself to you if this world is a proving ground for our level of enlightenment? Why then would he allow you to both keep these memories and POST THEM ON A PUBLIC FORUM?!

The idea that we know their intentions now makes our 'blind test' invalid and we will have to start over without that knowledge!

No one can cheat or nap up the ladder? What in the world do you call having Milton over your shoulder?? A tutor?

This is making even LESS sense now..

Originally posted by Rudolph_X

Well, then. You seem to be familiar with Sleepers material?

No, I haven't read his books. (Are you saying his book is Anti-Christian?)

So, since you know so much, tell us...

Milton says the 'container' can only be possessed by one entity, whereas the Bible states it can contain Legions. Is Sleeper's 'Milton' calling Jesus a liar?

No I'm not familiar with his books, never claimed to be. It was simply a question to find out if YOU were, because you seemed to make it out as if Sleeper was a christian.

I don't think it's a question if Jesus lied.... IF he indeed existed, it was inevitable that much of what he said was blown way out of proportion and taken way too literally. People back then were not as enlightened and could of easily taken a wise man's words, far too literally.

So that combined with the fact that 80% of the modern day bible has been rewritten or changed, perhaps to hide unwanted truth and make it more 'acceptable' for people.

I personally believe Jesus was just a wise man seeking enlightenment. Theres actually evidence that a man that fits VERY similar descriptions of Jesus, traveled to India and learnt the vedic culture. Much impressed with the peaceful way of life he had experienced there, he eventually went back to his home and began preaching what he had learnt to everyone there.

Just imagine how easy it would be for the people to misinterpret the stuff he was teaching... stuff they had never heard of before. It's so logical, and yet so much more probable.

That's just my oppinion, after quite a bit of research in Vedic scriptures, christian philosophy/history etc.
In anycase, if your trying to sway the "christians" from believing in Sleeper by making him look all 'anti-jesus', you won't have much luck.

I'm quite sure most people here are enlightened enough to have learnt the bible is full of lies.

Also, I would strongly disagree with Jesus if he indeed said "legion" amount of souls could enter one body. Just doesn't make sense at all.

Originally posted by HankMcCoy
This post right here contradicts your entire STORY so far!

Why why WHY would Milton show himself to you if this world is a proving ground for our level of enlightenment? Why then would he allow you to both keep these memories and POST THEM ON A PUBLIC FORUM?!

The idea that we know their intentions now makes our 'blind test' invalid and we will have to start over without that knowledge!

No one can cheat or nap up the ladder? What in the world do you call having Milton over your shoulder?? A tutor?

This is making even LESS sense now..

It's already been mentioned, there are many other individuals that get to keep their memories. Why? As we evolve as a civilization, perhaps different measures need to be taken (even if for certain people), in order to keep the whole process of our 'enlightenment journeys' in working order. Perhaps it's a neccessary event that is needed for that individual to finnish his/her assignment.

Who knows how the whole thing works, I'm sure the process is FAR too complicated to simply explain in words... so to fully understand, I guess we'll just have to wait till it's our turn...or till we're finnished our assignments.

Originally posted by Navieko

It's already been mentioned, there are many other individuals that get to keep their memories. Why? As we evolve as a civilization, perhaps different measures need to be taken (even if for certain people), in order to keep the whole process of our 'enlightenment journeys' in working order. Perhaps it's a neccessary event that is needed for that individual to finnish his/her assignment.

Who knows how the whole thing works, I'm sure the process is FAR too complicated to simply explain in words... so to fully understand, I guess we'll just have to wait till it's our turn...or till we're finnished our assignments.

Are you even reading what you are posting?

Please reread my post and understand that I am questioning the WHY of the inconsistancies.