The Hermetic Order of The Golden Dawn

Originally posted by theron dunn


Actually, Aleister Crowley was NOT a regular mason:

It's true that Crowley was never a regular Mason during his lifetime, but it could be argued that he became one posthumously....the situation is sort of ambiguous.

Crowley was initiated, passed, and raised in 1904 in Anglo-Saxon Lodge, which was an English speaking Lodge under the jurisdiction of the Grande Loge de France, just outside of Paris. Shortly after Crowley's death, the Lodge surrendered its GLF Charter, and received a new one from the National Grand Lodge of France, which is the regular body. Upon its receiving its new Charter, the members of Anglo-Saxon Lodge were "healed", i.e., made regular.

Recognition in France is a sticky topic, and is often difficult to follow. The largest French body, the Grand Orient of France, is not recognized by any US Grand Lodge, nor by the United Grand Lodge of England. The Grand Lodge of France (which Crowley was a member of) is not recognized by the UGLE, nor most US Grand Lodges...however, it was briefly granted recognition early last year by the Grand Lodge of Minnesota, who turned right around and retracted it a few months later because the Grand Lodge of Michigan withdrew their recognition of Minnesota over it, which led to the lamentable situation of one US Grand Lodge refusing to recognize another US Grand Lodge. All Us Grand Lodges and the UGLE recognize the National Grand Lodge of France.

But the French are much more lax concerning recognition, and at different times, all 3 of the large Grand Lodges have recognized each other, and have allowed intervisitation, even quite recently, and even considering the fact that, at least theoretically, the Grand Orient admits atheists.

Fiat Lvx.

[edit on 19-9-2004 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by soothsayer
It wasn't until Crowley entered the picture did things turn around. Much as Hitler gained control of (the name eludes me).....

The name you want is the Thule Occult Society.
They were supposedly behind the Nazi's rise to power.
Someone else provided a link a few posts back.


Does no one watch Hellboy?

I forget where...but, I know u can find alot about Aleister Crowley on wikipedia...Ozzy wrote a song about him..the book of thelema....craziness. Crowley Claimed to Conjur all sorts of demons and such...one such would be on called "lam" www.simoniff.com...

grey before grey? there was no roswell of anything when crowley was in his prime. so this thing is quite out of place for the time it was made. quite peculiar.

It's a shame, that even in THIS day and age, there's still so much IGNORANCE and negative preconceptions about the guy....

He truly was a pioneer - not the "ego-based, sexual deviant" the press of the time made him out to be.

People still take his texts "literally" instead of understanding the concepts that are symbolised and coded in them.

The Golden Dawn is definately a great resource for anyone interested in brain change...




.

If being labelled a sexual deviant child sacrificer and all those other delicious labels Crwly has adornd his blazers with, has kept idiots away from studying his work then so be it. its not the pathway for everyone. While Regardie may be easier to understand Crowley always leaves you thinking. Each line can be read a thousand times over a lifetime and bring new thought and meaning each and every time.

Crowley made his students think for themselves in his obtuse way of saying things. He made the student learn and come to the conclusions needed for themselves by themselves, instead of learning by rote which many of the other masters including Regardie left their work.

Crwoely never told you this is the way it is. Instead he left clues and hints and kept you guessing and searching the meanings for yourself. For that Crowley is truly a master.

enough of Crowley, does the Golden Dawn still practice sex magic?

What kind of magic do they actually practice?

Are they considered REAL rosicruicians?



I've recently been givin an invitation from the Golden Dawn, but i cant really find out much on the internet, everything i find is a websight that is run by one of the golden dawn chapters really. and they talk alot about angel type magic....if i'm making any sense to anyone at all please explain alittle of this to me. send me a U2U if you have to.

thanks

Originally posted by umwolves123
enough of Crowley, does the Golden Dawn still practice sex magic?

No, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn did not practice sex magic. They used highly elaborate ceremonies of theurgy based on Masonic procedures, Kabalah, and Enochiana.

What kind of magic do they actually practice?

Practical ceremonial magic was taught to initiates of the Grade of 5°=6°, called Adeptus Minor. The curriculum included such things as charging talismans, consecrating the magical weapons, invocation, evocation, and skrying via the Enochian Keys.

Are they considered REAL rosicruicians?

They were supposedly authorized to work by a Rosicrucian Adept in Germany, known as Soror Sprengel. The grade system of the Golden Dawn is identical to that of the Masonic Rosicrucian Society, with the exception that the Golden Dawn has a tenth grade, Ipsisimus.

I've recently been givin an invitation from the Golden Dawn, but i cant really find out much on the internet, everything i find is a websight that is run by one of the golden dawn chapters really.

There are many different groups today claiming to be the Golden Dawn, but none has been able to demonstrate that they have any direct lineage to the original. The secret rituals and teachings of the Golden Dawn were first published by Crowley in the Equinox, but were later arranged in a more studious manner by Dr. Israel Regardie in his masterpiece The Golden Dawn.

Regardie's book contains all of the initiation ceremonies of the Order up to the Grade of Adeptus Minor, as well as all of the magical instruction. Most of the moderns "Golden Dawns" simply work out of Regardie's book.

"The Golden Dawn" by Dr. Israel Regardie

Originally posted by umwolves123
I've recently been givin an invitation from the Golden Dawn, but i cant really find out much on the internet, everything i find is a websight that is run by one of the golden dawn chapters really. and they talk alot about angel type magic.

Right now there are currently 4 main versions of the Golden Dawn out there.

The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn - www.hermeticgoldendawn.org... run by Chic and Tabatha Cicero. They trademarked the term "Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn" and run it pretty much by the book. (The Golden Dawn" by Dr. Israel Regardie)

The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (Rosicrucian Order of A+O) - www.golden-dawn.com... run by David Griffin. They put the whole of Regardie material into the outer order and claim to have new Rosicrucian secrets in the inner order.

The Esoteric order of the Golden Dawn - www.esotericgoldendawn.com... and golden-dawn.org... run by Robert Zink. Formerly called The Hermetic Order of the Morning Star International. (HOMSI) offers "astral initiation" that many frown on. They may also be more Christian orientated in the inner order (Rumor).

The Open Source Order of the Golden Dawn - osogd.org... run by Sam Webster. They are unique in many ways, all rituals/documents they use are published on their site. the leadership is elected and serves a fixed term, The have many Thelemic, and pagan influences so most/all of the Judao/Christian influences have been removed.

If your researching the various groups right now, be aware there is a court battle over trademarks going on right now so there are many many many flame wars with some goofy accusations out there right now.

For the record I'm a former member a Golden Dawn Order... but not one of the main ones.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Regardie's book contains all of the initiation ceremonies of the Order up to the Grade of Adeptus Minor, as well as all of the magical instruction. Most of the moderns "Golden Dawns" simply work out of Regardie's book.

"The Golden Dawn" by Dr. Israel Regardie

If you can find it (It's not in print right now) I highly recommend "The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic" by Dr. Israel Regardie. The book Masonic Light posted contains the rituals of the Stella Matutina < sp? > one of the offshoot orders that came about after the original Golden Dawn split. The Complete Golden Dawn contains the original G.D. rituals, along with more info in general.

But be warned it's was almost $100 when new (not counting the Limited edition leather bound copies) and can go for twice that now.

are their any members of the golden dawn on ATS at all?

and Cug, why arnt you a member anymore?

Originally posted by umwolves123
and Cug, why arnt you a member anymore?

Assorted reasons. For the most part is was because I moved, and the only form of communications I really had was the mail. (pre-internet days). And I was really leaning towards Thelema, and for various reasons they don't mesh very well.

This perked up my interests, as I recently came across some information about Set and Horus. Found out Set holds the Ankh, or what I think, is Sirius in origin.

Where would I go next with Rosicrucian/Masonry information - real information rather than websites that could have disinformation?

Love and Light
Rodrigo

Mr Crowley and myself are on the same path. He discovered the original religion. The first stories of the Snake and the Eagle fighting over their fathers land, the Golden calf. Naga, Annunaki, Quetzacotyl, Hopi two hearts and Lucifer. Thousands of miles and years seperating them and yet all still so similiar. And today China the Dragon and America the Eagle, still fighting...

Crowley was a very intelligent, knowledgeable man, no doubt.

But he lived a life of lies. Enjoying the hellenistic ideal of truth breaking and fantasy making. Imagination, drugs, etc...

None of that being whats truly real.

Its funny that in analyzing his massive corruption of kabbalah, what became Qaballah (hermetic hybrid) he ignores the kabbalistic signficance of Isaac. He does this because Isaac represents an attribute that gnostics refuse to acknowledge. FEAR and AWE of the creator.

Real orthodox kabbalah that wasnt perverted by gnostic christians is what people should be exposing themseves to.

Not this soul crushing "esoteric" ego inflating nonsense.

Originally posted by dontreally


Real orthodox kabbalah that wasnt perverted by gnostic christians is what people should be exposing themseves to.

"Real orthodox kabbalah", in my opinion, is no different than Gnosticism. That is, a bunch of nonsense and esoteric-sounding gibberish. At least in that sense, the Gospel of Thomas has little difference to the Zohar or Sefer Yetzirah. It's all a waste of time.

Originally posted by Aladdin Sane

Originally posted by dontreally


Real orthodox kabbalah that wasnt perverted by gnostic christians is what people should be exposing themseves to.

"Real orthodox kabbalah", in my opinion, is no different than Gnosticism. That is, a bunch of nonsense and esoteric-sounding gibberish. At least in that sense, the Gospel of Thomas has little difference to the Zohar or Sefer Yetzirah. It's all a waste of time.

Perhaps if you study these research articles (and the website in general) for the next six months, you will change your view about Kabbalah sounding gibberish:
smphillips.8m.com...

So do research journals in theoretical physics to high school students.....

Consider the GD to be a powerful programme with a massive bug in it. The entire ritual system was built from the cipher manuscripts. The Cipher manuscripts belonged to a German adept call fraulein Sprengler (sp). THe problem was that she never existed and the entire thing was invented by Mathers et al.

As to the secret chiefs... Did they ever exist?

Originally posted by micpsi


So do research journals in theoretical physics to high school students.....

Are you sure you want to compare the Zohar and Sefer Yetzirah to "research journals in theoretical physics"?

reply to post by Aladdin Sane


That was complete nonsense.

Thats like saying chocolate is no different than vanilla.

Have you even studied Orthodox Kabbalah? For one, its not antinomian. Which puts it at the opposite side of the spectrum to Gnosticism. Lurianic Kabbalah, as created by the ARI, was meant as a science to refine the attributes of the soul.

And how can anyone in their right mind criticize a book as esoteric and meaningful as the Sefer Yetzriah? You must know diddily squat about Hebrew or languages in General.

Buddhism can real destroy ones inellectual abilities.

Originally posted by dontreally


Have you even studied Orthodox Kabbalah?

yes.

Buddhism can real destroy ones inellectual abilities.

yes, like all other religions, including judaism.

reply to post by Aladdin Sane


Are you sure you want to continue pretending you know what youre talking about?

Go to Chabad.org and go to the TV section. Theres a new video series called kabbalah and science. This should change your views about kabbalah.

Also, G-ds essential name, YHVH = 26. This name sustains all reality. Likewise, modern physics has established 26 fundamental constants. See the parallel?

Also, there are 86 naturally occurring metals. The name elohim, signifies divine contraction, and so its funny that the lowest form of matter which demonstrates growth - metals, come in 86 varieties. Again, this must be coincidence.

Or how bout how the DNA of an atom, the fine structure constant, appears as two sepctral lines one opposite the other. The number which mathematicians/physcists learned separates the two is 137, the gematria of Kabbalah. Just as kabbalah expresses how the spiritual is reflected in the physical, so to the DNA of an atom contains symbolically this concept (as the two mirroring spectral lines differentiated by the # 137)

Hebrew is the language of creation. As string theory is showing, creation is much like sound, which in itself is expressed through the Hebrew tongue. Hence why occultists have always stuck by Hebrew and its intrinsic significance.

Of course you can morph languages and 'create' worlds. But the language of the archangels is Hebrew.