why cant christians accept the origins of christianity

Originally posted by Glooper23
Sun Matrix...

I can't remember the name of the fallacy, but you're misleading people and yourself. You listed quite a few prophecies that came true, but you never listed the ones that didn't.

Please feel free to bring one of these prophesies forward, and we will see who is misleading who.

Originally posted by Diseria

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well,even today some Jews consider Christ a messiah,but they are few and far in between. The religion itself certainly does not declare any messiah.

Today, sure. Today the two religions are two completely different branches.

But, what about in the beginning? Am I understanding that *no* Jews *ever* thought him the messiah? (okay, that sounds sarcastic, but I'm seriously inquiring. I do not know, but it seems kinda ludicrous to say that the Jews have *always* denied the messiah since it is a well known fact that he *was* a Jew...)

Diseria, I am not arguing with your principle of religions being interconnected.They certainly are. Also, regardless of what anyone may say, Christianity and Islam both are outgrowths of Judaic tradition,albeit somewhat distorted.

However,I am sure there were some Jews who accepted Christ as the messiah;however, there wasn't a large percentage of them during Christ's time. I even think that Pontius Pilate had some inclination that Jesus was who he claimed;however, it is one thing to believe but have your actions indicate something entirely different.

I wonder, is there a way to work past the desire for control? To get back to the roots? ...maybe the roots need to be re-grown, perhaps?

Diseria, there is an effort to rebirth the Church of olden times,but I don't think that it will happen. There have been too many schisms within the church and too much anonymity about what the original church believed. There is even debate as to who the real Christians were.

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
Sun Matrix,

Very well said my friend, I will look forward to seeing whatever else this person can try to conjure up to debunk the truth, only to see it fall far short to what is written about and prophesized in the Bible!

Only a fantasist can see any of this relating to the european union...

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand afull of abominations and bfilthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, aMYSTERY, bBABYLON THE GREAT, THE cMOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the ablood of the saints, and with the blood of the bmartyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great cadmiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into aperdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the bbook of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the amind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven akings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten ahorns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make awar with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is bLord of lords, and cKing of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the awhore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and bburn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and agive their kingdom unto the beast, until the bwords of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great acity, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

This whore of babylon has been suggested to many various institutions, interpreted as being relevant to the current climate. Once you start with a conclusion, you will search for whatever you believe confirms this, ignore the conflicting information. When wrong beyond doubt, you move on to another interpretation.

The first thing I would do is use the right scripture that I said was the revived Roman empire.

The European union is the revived Roman Empire..............as prophesied. Revelation 17:7-8

PLEASE, use the proper scripture and get back to me. THANKS

I see we've been moved down below...

1 aThe bburden of cBabylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2 Lift ye up a abanner upon the high bmountain, cexalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my asanctified ones, I have also called my bmighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the akingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the bbattle.
5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to adestroy the whole land.
6 ¶ aHowl ye; for the bday of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man’s heart shall amelt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in apain as a woman that btravaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall adestroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be adarkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will apunish the bworld for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the chaughtiness of the dterrible.
12 I will make a man more aprecious than fine gold; even a man than the bgolden wedge of Ophir.

So when did the stars stop shining, was it a cloudy night or something? I think there are still a lot of sinners in Iraq and the land is not desolate and they didn't destroy the whole land. In fact, this great army is looking for the quickest way out as those with fainted hands and melted hearts seem to be causing a bit of trouble.

But, of course, this all needs the interpretation of Babylon as being modern day Iraq. Others believe Babylon to be something different, just your interpretation.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

PLEASE, use the proper scripture and get back to me. THANKS

Yeah, so many to choose from hard to be able to read minds.

Why don't you present your preferred scripture. You made the claim that the european union is the revived roman empire and is prophesised, so show it to be so, I presented one source for evidence accepted by some christians, you will present another accepted by others.

I see Babylon in this context means something different than the Babylon elsewhere...



[edit on 14-11-2006 by melatonin]

Its blatantly obvious that nearly all modern day creation based religions have strikingly similar (almost to the point of names being the only real difference) stories regarding creation, adam and eve, a flood, a "noah" character, a "jesus" character etc.... many of which pre-date christianity and even those stories can be traced even further back to egyptian, assyrian, babylonian etc "mythologies".

but then Satan has always been good at making things that are close enough to the truth to seem correct,

I thought everyone knew that "Satan " had a time machine and could go backward and forward in time , even to before the advent of Judism, Islam, and Paulianity where
the concept of Satan began. Thats right he can(and obviously to some did) use this
machine to get back to a time before even he existed. Once there he planted future
corruptions to beliefs that did not even exist , Amazing.

Please stop.............Islam has nothing to do with Judaism or Christianity.

Islam comes from Babylon and is the worship of the Moon god. Check your facts.

Persia maybe the city of Babylon i doubt.

And You might want to check YOUR facts. The Followers ofIslam ,Paulianity, and Judism are all refered to ( even in the Q'uran) as Children of Abram and Children of the Book. A furthur checking of facts would reveal that the 2 sons of Abram , Isaac
and Ishmael are the individuals credited with being the founders if Islam and Judism.

There were not Christians until after Jesus rose from the dead

In this you are correct. As I recall the term was not used until much later and there
is no conclusive evidence that it in fact refered to either followers of R. Jeshua or the
followers of Pauls church. There were as I recall at least 2 other groups it could
have referenced, one led by a roman that was never in Palistine.

Check your facts.........Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James and Peter

That each of them wrote a Gospel? That is a fact, yes.

Actually there is no evidence that any of these were written by those who's name they bare. It is indeed unlikely that Simeon called Peter/Cephas ( which could also
be read as simeon the thick or thickheaded) could even write. The Disciples
Matthew, and Mark if the bio of them given is accurate would probably have been educated and able to converse and maybe write(although writing was a profession unto itself) in more than one language. James and Thomas ( the brothers of Jeshua)
as well as Jeshua himself being of al least the Nobility if not the Royalty would in all likelyhood been able to converse and write in more than one language.

It was common practice at the time and long after for the scribe who actually did the
writing to append the name of a person he favored or a person whom he thought
might have written the words to a scroll. In addition to this the gospels attributed to
Matt., Mark, and Luke, show a definate pauline leaning. The John text has a decidedly different leaning. IMO it is more Ebionite/Johannite/Gnostic but that is again IMO.

The Acts of the Apostles

are of definate pauline origins and seem to be the earliest of the " Gospel Writings"

We have gone over this before, but the Council of Nicaea had nothing to do with choosing what books became part of the bible.

You are right. as far as you go. What this council did do was to accept the list that was assembled by Ireaneus (as I recall) some years earlier. It was this list
that Constantine commisioned 50 copies to be printed which became the basis for all
modern bibles ( with a few more edits and changes later).

Am I understanding that *no* Jews *ever* thought him the messiah?

Difficult if not impossible to answer. During the time period in question and to some degree still today Jew was an umbrella term.

To be cont.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I am a believer because I have examined the FACTS. I let the facts speak, I don't need any blind faith. I leave the blindness to those who can't see the truth.


I am wondering how it is possible for anyone that has examined the facts to reject the prophesied Messiah. Have you read the Bible.............do you understand it?

Israel is restored as a nation after 2000 years....as prophesied How come after 2000 years the Jews didn't just blend into other cultures and completely disappear?

Iran seeks to wipe Isreal from the face of the earth..........as prophesied.

Iraq is receiving the second phase of its three phase judgement......as prophesied

Russia is the ally of Iran..............as prophesied.

China and the kings of the east have a 200,000,000 man army.........as prophesied.

The European union is the revived Roman Empire..............as prophesied.

A One World Government is forming..........as prophesied.

Religion from Babylon has spread all over the earth and blinds the world...........as prophesied.

The kindoms that would rule the earth (in order) have come to pass.........as prophesied.

The Jews who wrote the Old Testament, rejected the Messiah........as prophesied.

The gentiles became believers in the Messiah.........as prophesied.

All the people on earth can simotaniously see an event that occurs in the earth......as prophesied.

Technology has made it possible to control all buying and selling via chip implants.......as prophesied.

The character of people in the last the last days is just...............as prophesied.



We could keep going, and going and going, but let's keep it simple ..................Produce one incorrect prophecy..................IF YOU CAN.

i think if you take the time to read BEYOND the bible you will see that even if some of the prophecies (which are subjective) have come to pass, it is still based on earlier texts....its not original except for its own spin as every "new" religion tends to do.

Am I understanding that *no* Jews *ever* thought him the messiah?

There were several sects of Jews, Sadducees,Pharisees,Essenes. Nazorites/Nazoreens,
and Zelotes to name a few. While all shared some beliefs thay also differed on others,
much like modern christianity.

Please keep in mind that your opinions are only opinions

the same can be said for your beliefs and opinions. that others may share some of them does not make them truths, nor does it mean they arrived by fax from the other side.

Can a regular guy calm the oceans and winds, feed 5000 with a few fish etc.

Depends on several things, one of them being the elapsed time between the origin of the story, how many times it was passed on verbally before being committed to paper, and the time it took to change from allegory or to "accepted fact".

Originally posted by melatonin

So when did the stars stop shining, was it a cloudy night or something? I think there are still a lot of sinners in Iraq and the land is not desolate and they didn't destroy the whole land. In fact, this great army is looking for the quickest way out as those with fainted hands and melted hearts seem to be causing a bit of trouble.

But, of course, this all needs the interpretation of Babylon as being modern day Iraq. Others believe Babylon to be something different, just your interpretation.

Sorry, you need to do a little studying. It says the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand. The Day of the LORD occurs at the time of wrath. The Kurds who are the ancient Medes will execute the final judgement against Iraq( Babylon). The U.S. will attempt to heal Iraq and fail as I have shown earlier. What are we doing now. ATTEMTING TO HEAL IRAQ. We will fail and return home.

17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.

I don't really need to interpret anything..............just read it.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Sorry, you need to do a little studying. It says the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand. The Day of the LORD occurs at the time of wrath. The Kurds who are the ancient Medes will execute the final judgement against Iraq( Babylon). The U.S. will attempt to heal Iraq and fail as I have shown earlier. What are we doing now. ATTEMTING TO HEAL IRAQ. We will fail and return home.

17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.

I don't really need to interpret anything..............just read it.

You do, you have interpreted Babylon to be modern Iraq, you have interpreted the army to be those of the US and UK, you have interpreted the kurds to be medes - which covers quite a lot of possibilities, so like you suggest magog/gog scythians to be the whole of russia, medes could be Iranians, the Turkish kurds etc. The kurds are also part of Iraq, so you're suggest that they will attack themselves. Babylon in this instance is also interpreted something different. It's really just making it up as you go along and highlight the problem with using such writings as prophecy, it is so vague and ambiguous to be essentially incomprehensible when attempting to use these words in a modern context.

I do enough studying thank you very much. I have a pile of 20 research articles to read, although some of those will be as incomprehensible as the scripture you hold in such high esteem.

[edit on 14-11-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin

You do, you have interpreted Babylon to be modern Iraq, you have interpreted the army to be those of the US and UK, you have interpreted the kurds to be medes - which covers quite a lot of possibilities, so like you suggest magog/gog scythians to be the whole of russia, medes could be Iranians, the Turkish kurds etc. The kurds are also part of Iraq, so you're suggest that they will attack themselves. Babylon in this instance is also interpreted something different. It's really just making it up as you go along and highlight the problem with using such writings as prophecy, it is so vague and ambiguous to be essentially incomprehensible when attempting to use these words in a modern context.

I have only read the facts. Can you name another great nation that rejoices in the highness of God besides the United States. Please don't forget about Gulf War 1 that had nations from all over the earth in a coalition. We are not merely talking about the US and UK.

And no I did not interpret that the Kurds are the ancient Medes. Those are facts that you can prove.

The facts speak for themselves as does the scripture. If you refuse to admit the facts and walk in blindness.........it is your choice.

I am still waiting for someone to bring out an incorrect prophecy.

3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. 4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like F70 as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. 5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

By the way, Babylon is modern day Iraq. Look at I map. I didn't dream it up

[edit on 14-11-2006 by Sun Matrix]

Some of the responses in this thread are rediculous, and don't even touch on the OP. It's absolutely true that the details surrounding Christ's life are not specific to Jesus. They had been told for millenia before him about other gods, and will be remade millenia after. This means that either

A) Jesus wasn't the only miracle baby/ messiah,
or
B) It's just a fairy tale made up long ago (long before Jesus's birth) for people to follow.

There is no way around it. And I can see that no one can argue it, since it's being avoided like the plague. Hence the reason for the thread.

and to Sun Matrix:

Just because something is happening now that is similar to something written in a book doesn't man it's prophesised. For example:

Edit:

An example of what the OP was talking about.

Regarding Mithras circa 600 bce
Every year in Rome, in the middle of winter, the Son of God was born once more, putting an end to darkness. Every year at first minute of December 25th the temple of Mithras was lit with candles, priests in in white garments celebrated the birth of the Son of God and boys burned incense. Mithras was born in a cave, on December 25th, of a virgin mother. God, in the form of light, entered a virgin, Anahita.
"In Armenian tradition, Mithras was believed to shut himself up in a cave from which he emerged once a year, born anew.

Regarding Krishna circa 5771-1600 bce
His birth was heralded by a star. The cowherds adored his birth. Celestial beings sang hymns at the birth. The baby Krishna began speaking to his mother shortly after birth.
Devaki was told by an angel, "In thy delivery, O favoured among women, all nations shall have cause to rejoice".
Angels issued a warning that the local dictator, King Kansa, planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. Krishna's parents fled and stayed in Mathura. King Kansa ordered the massacre of all male children born during the same night.
Krishna's birth was attended by angels and shepherds.
The infant Krishna also was presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh by wise men.

Many more here

www.wilsonsalmanac.com...

Was 1984 written by God? Was Animal Farm? I have a friend named Ishmael who worked on a boat, does that mean Moby Dick was written by God?

You make these points like their infallable, when in fact they are pretty rediculous when you step back and look at them.

[edit on 14-11-2006 by Rasobasi420]

[edit on 14-11-2006 by Rasobasi420]

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I have only read the facts. Can you name another great nation that rejoices in the highness of God besides the United States. Please don't forget about Gulf War 1 that had nations from all over the earth in a coalition. We are not merely talking about the US and UK.

And no I did not interpret that the Kurds are the ancient Medes. Those are facts that you can prove.

The facts speak for themselves as does the scripture. If you refuse to admit the facts and walk in blindness.........it is your choice.

I am still waiting for someone to bring out an incorrect prophecy.

3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. 4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like F70 as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. 5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

By the way, Babylon is modern day Iraq. Look at I map. I didn't dream it up

yeah, it's an ancient city that was big in the day, not any more. As I mentioned, kurds are also Iranian and Turkish, by the extrapolation you do for magog/gog being scythians and therefore denoting russia, you could arrive at any of these for medes, they had a pretty big empire.

The only definite correct prophecy I see is the Israel business. All the rest are open and incomplete or just plain wrong.

So how do you get 200 million soldiers for China and 'the kings of the east' and can you outline the european union stuff? It's all a bit unclear.

Just trying to get an insight into the thought processes outlining all this stuff as I know there is little room for debate here. I know of people who suggest it's not the EU prophesised as the horny beast, but actually will be a union of 10 states surrounding the ancient region of Seleucid, others just an unknown global empire, possibly a future G8 sort of thing. It's all a bit messy and wildly open to interpretation.

but, yup, rasobasi's correct we are OT..



[edit on 14-11-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin
Just trying to get an insight into the thought processes outlining all this stuff as I know there is little room for debate here. I know of people who suggest it's not the EU prophesised as the horny beast, but actually will be a union of 10 states surrounding the ancient region of Seleucid, others just an unknown global empire, possibly a future G8 sort of thing. It's all a bit messy and wildly open to interpretation.

I agree that the 10 Kings will be a world wide empire. But one of the beast is the revived Roman empire which is the current EU. it will run this empire under the the direction of the Antichrist.

Originally posted by greywolf1


And You might want to check YOUR facts. The Followers ofIslam ,Paulianity, and Judism are all refered to ( even in the Q'uran) as Children of Abram and Children of the Book. A furthur checking of facts would reveal that the 2 sons of Abram , Isaac
and Ishmael are the individuals credited with being the founders if Islam and Judism.

I am certainly aware of Isaac and Ishmael. Islam was formed after 360 other false gods were thrown out of Mecca and their Alilah or chief god, the moon god was made their one and only god. Mohammed merely took away all the other gods that were being worshipped there.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with Judaism or Christianity. It comes from Babylon. Check your facts.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Some of the responses in this thread are rediculous, and don't even touch on the OP. It's absolutely true that the details surrounding Christ's life are not specific to Jesus. They had been told for millenia before him about other gods, and will be remade millenia after. This means that either

A) Jesus wasn't the only miracle baby/ messiah,
or
B) It's just a fairy tale made up long ago (long before Jesus's birth) for people to follow.

There is no way around it. And I can see that no one can argue it, since it's being avoided like the plague. Hence the reason for the thread.

and to Sun Matrix:

Just because something is happening now that is similar to something written in a book doesn't man it's prophesised. For example:

Edit:

An example of what the OP was talking about.

Regarding Mithras circa 600 bce
Every year in Rome, in the middle of winter, the Son of God was born once more, putting an end to darkness. Every year at first minute of December 25th the temple of Mithras was lit with candles, priests in in white garments celebrated the birth of the Son of God and boys burned incense. Mithras was born in a cave, on December 25th, of a virgin mother. God, in the form of light, entered a virgin, Anahita.
"In Armenian tradition, Mithras was believed to shut himself up in a cave from which he emerged once a year, born anew.

Regarding Krishna circa 5771-1600 bce
His birth was heralded by a star. The cowherds adored his birth. Celestial beings sang hymns at the birth. The baby Krishna began speaking to his mother shortly after birth.
Devaki was told by an angel, "In thy delivery, O favoured among women, all nations shall have cause to rejoice".
Angels issued a warning that the local dictator, King Kansa, planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. Krishna's parents fled and stayed in Mathura. King Kansa ordered the massacre of all male children born during the same night.
Krishna's birth was attended by angels and shepherds.
The infant Krishna also was presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh by wise men.

HELLO, TELL ME SOMETHING THAT I DON'T KNOW.

Why don't you take the time to track one of these religions to their origin point. Take Hinduism for instance. It comes from Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism comes from Babylon. This comes from the deceiver and it has deceived you.

Jesus was not born on Dec. 25 the sun god Baal from Babylon was. And so the Roman empire under Constantine a worshiper of Sol Invictus or his pope set the date of Jesus birth TO fall on the date that they already worshipped Baal.

Why don't you do some real research and find out what is really going on instead of reading some blind dudes book whose purpose is to keep you in blindness?

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty

What fables do you think Peter is talking about. Krishna, Hercules, Horus, Tammuz etc, etc, etc. ALL PUT THERE TO KEEP YOU FROM SEEING THE MESSIAH. And all originating in Babylon. Why don't you do some research and find truth.
I can talk fact for fact with you on this stuff.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I am a believer because I have examined the FACTS. I let the facts speak, I don't need any blind faith. I leave the blindness to those who can't see the truth.


I am wondering how it is possible for anyone that has examined the facts to reject the prophesied Messiah. Have you read the Bible.............do you understand it?

Israel is restored as a nation after 2000 years....as prophesied How come after 2000 years the Jews didn't just blend into other cultures and completely disappear?

Iran seeks to wipe Isreal from the face of the earth..........as prophesied.

Iraq is receiving the second phase of its three phase judgement......as prophesied

Russia is the ally of Iran..............as prophesied.

China and the kings of the east have a 200,000,000 man army.........as prophesied.

The European union is the revived Roman Empire..............as prophesied.

A One World Government is forming..........as prophesied.

Religion from Babylon has spread all over the earth and blinds the world...........as prophesied.

The kindoms that would rule the earth (in order) have come to pass.........as prophesied.

The Jews who wrote the Old Testament, rejected the Messiah........as prophesied.

The gentiles became believers in the Messiah.........as prophesied.

All the people on earth can simotaniously see an event that occurs in the earth......as prophesied.

Technology has made it possible to control all buying and selling via chip implants.......as prophesied.

The character of people in the last the last days is just...............as prophesied.



We could keep going, and going and going, but let's keep it simple ..................Produce one incorrect prophecy..................IF YOU CAN.

Sun.............

Man wrote the Bible, correct? Inspired? Maybe.... Could be a plan laid out 2000 years ago.

Possibly the same people that are fulfilling the Prophesy Wrote the Prophecy.

I think it's called a Self Fullfilling Prophesy.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Originally posted by Or_Die_TryingWhen the evidence is so obvious why does every bible thumper seem to think their idealogy is the one truth when its obviously based on more ancient knowledge and stories? this goes for muslims too and jews, and so forth. anyone who does any research regarding ancient beliefs and creation stories willfind modern religion copying liberally from these.

I agree with you but you missed the most important point in all of this. It is Christ himself who did exist and his teachings were important and unique. That aside for all other aspects of Christianity makes it not only unique but most powerful.

If a voice comes from the source then it can speak with authority where all other sources are at best second hand.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
HELLO, TELL ME SOMETHING THAT I DON'T KNOW.

Okay, you're wrong.

Why don't you take the time to track one of these religions to their origin point. Take Hinduism for instance. It comes from Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism comes from Babylon. This comes from the deceiver and it has deceived you.

And the neck bone's connected to your head bone, and your head bone is holding the wrong information. Hinduism, rather the Vedas, and vedic teachings were around thousands of years before Zoroastrianism. As a matter of fact, it is widely held that Zoroastrianism evolved from Vedic thought, intermingled with local superstition.

Jesus was not born on Dec. 25 the sun god Baal from Babylon was. And so the Roman empire under Constantine a worshiper of Sol Invictus or his pope set the date of Jesus birth TO fall on the date that they already worshipped Baal.

Betcha think you've got my Ba'als in a vice now huh?

Why don't you do some real research and find out what is really going on instead of reading some blind dudes book whose purpose is to keep you in blindness?

Thank god I have you to show me the light. Oh wait, which blind dude wrote your book? And if you say God I'm gonna shoot you.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty

What fables do you think Peter is talking about. Krishna, Hercules, Horus, Tammuz etc, etc, etc. ALL PUT THERE TO KEEP YOU FROM SEEING THE MESSIAH. And all originating in Babylon.

That's a huge assumption to make from one line. And an illogical one. I've seen you use a lot of logical fallacies, but this one is the most used I've ever seen. It's called Begging the Question. You keep using one item as your source, and proof, while that item is the one thing in dispute..

Why don't you do some research and find truth.
I can talk fact for fact with you on this stuff.

I've seen incorrect information in your post, assumptions and logical fallacies in your posts, but very little fact.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

And the neck bone's connected to your head bone, and your head bone is holding the wrong information. Hinduism, rather the Vedas, and vedic teachings were around thousands of years before Zoroastrianism. As a matter of fact, it is widely held that Zoroastrianism evolved from Vedic thought, intermingled with local superstition.

Your information is incorrect. Hinduism came from Zoroastrianism.

You keep using one item as your source, and proof, while that item is the one thing in dispute..

I am merely using historical facts of the origin of religion.

I've seen incorrect information in your post, assumptions and logical fallacies in your posts, but very little fact.

Well, that's because you won't recognize the truth. It is a fact that Hinduism came from Zoroastrianism whether you want to accept it or not.