why cant christians accept the origins of christianity

Its blatantly obvious that nearly all modern day creation based religions have strikingly similar (almost to the point of names being the only real difference) stories regarding creation, adam and eve, a flood, a "noah" character, a "jesus" character etc.... many of which pre-date christianity and even those stories can be traced even further back to egyptian, assyrian, babylonian etc "mythologies". When the evidence is so obvious why does every bible thumper seem to think their idealogy is the one truth when its obviously based on more ancient knowledge and stories? this goes for muslims too and jews, and so forth. anyone who does any research regarding ancient beliefs and creation stories willfind modern religion copying liberally from these.

They are told to use blind faith rather than reason.
They would not be the "only" special group to find favor with "God"
They could not kill "sinners" in the name of God if others held validity.
They may begin to think for themselves, and we can't have that, now can we?

No offense to my Christian brothers and sisters, but the guy does have a point.

Simply because "People will believe in what they want to believe in."

Even when confronted with these truths, they will simply disregard it BECAUSE it will have negative affects on their religion... it will give their religion less credibility - something Bible thumpers wouldn't dare elevate.

They can't accept it because they are taught that there way is the only way. Basically go to church and listen to a "Father" for hours and either end up crying or falling asleep, or go to hell.

I am a believer because I have examined the FACTS. I let the facts speak, I don't need any blind faith. I leave the blindness to those who can't see the truth.


I am wondering how it is possible for anyone that has examined the facts to reject the prophesied Messiah. Have you read the Bible.............do you understand it?

Israel is restored as a nation after 2000 years....as prophesied How come after 2000 years the Jews didn't just blend into other cultures and completely disappear?

Iran seeks to wipe Isreal from the face of the earth..........as prophesied.

Iraq is receiving the second phase of its three phase judgement......as prophesied

Russia is the ally of Iran..............as prophesied.

China and the kings of the east have a 200,000,000 man army.........as prophesied.

The European union is the revived Roman Empire..............as prophesied.

A One World Government is forming..........as prophesied.

Religion from Babylon has spread all over the earth and blinds the world...........as prophesied.

The kindoms that would rule the earth (in order) have come to pass.........as prophesied.

The Jews who wrote the Old Testament, rejected the Messiah........as prophesied.

The gentiles became believers in the Messiah.........as prophesied.

All the people on earth can simotaniously see an event that occurs in the earth......as prophesied.

Technology has made it possible to control all buying and selling via chip implants.......as prophesied.

The character of people in the last the last days is just...............as prophesied.



We could keep going, and going and going, but let's keep it simple ..................Produce one incorrect prophecy..................IF YOU CAN.

Originally posted by Or_Die_Trying
Its blatantly obvious that nearly all modern day creation based religions have strikingly similar (almost to the point of names being the only real difference) stories regarding creation, adam and eve, a flood, a "noah" character, a "jesus" character etc.... many of which pre-date christianity and even those stories can be traced even further back to egyptian, assyrian, babylonian etc "mythologies". When the evidence is so obvious why does every bible thumper seem to think their idealogy is the one truth when its obviously based on more ancient knowledge and stories? this goes for muslims too and jews, and so forth. anyone who does any research regarding ancient beliefs and creation stories willfind modern religion copying liberally from these.

You seem to make a distinction between Judaism,Christianity and Islam. I really see no great distinction. Christianity and Islam are both outgrowths of Judaism. Islam is the more militant of the three religions. A Jew doesn't believe in the messiahship of Christ. Christians do.

I have noticed a continuous thread between all religions really. It seems to me that universal truth is an aspect of all religions.However, throughout time,religions tend to become corrupted. This is done more by the desire for control than through a inherent fallacy of the system itself.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

You seem to make a distinction between Judaism,Christianity and Islam. I really see no great distinction. Christianity and Islam are both outgrowths of Judaism.

Please stop.............Islam has nothing to do with Judaism or Christianity.

Islam comes from Babylon and is the worship of the Moon god. Check your facts.

The Jews who wrote the Old Testament, rejected the Messiah........as prophesied.

But, didn't Jesus help the Jewish pesants and beggars towards radical egalitarianism?

He certainly didn't help the early Christians, who if I remember history correct, were considered a 'mystery religion'...


Maybe I should ask for more specifics: *Which* Jews rejected the messiah?
To say that *all* Jews rejected him is wrong.


And no, I haven't read the Bible.
I have, however, read Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography by John Dominic Crossan -- a recommended read for anyone, religious or not!
Teaches a lot about the lessons that Jesus, the man, was trying to teach...



This is, of course, not mentioning the fact that the Bible was written *at least* 50 years after Jesus died... and not a single person who wrote a gospel *knew* the man named Jesus....

Originally posted by Diseria

The Jews who wrote the Old Testament, rejected the Messiah........as prophesied.

Maybe I should ask for more specifics: *Which* Jews rejected the messiah?
To say that *all* Jews rejected him is wrong.





This is, of course, not mentioning the fact that the Bible was written *at least* 50 years after Jesus died... and not a single person who wrote a gospel *knew* the man named Jesus....

Well,even today some Jews consider Christ a messiah,but they are few and far in between. The religion itself certainly does not declare any messiah.

You are right about the large expanse of time that went by between the time the gospels were written and when Jesus was crucified. Your fifty year estimate is kind of a conservative one actually. I have heard that it was between 70-80 years after the death of Christ.

Sun Matrix. Can you please show evidence that all those things were prophicised.

Originally posted by Diseria

He certainly didn't help the early Christians, who if I remember history correct, were considered a 'mystery religion'...

There were not Christians until after Jesus rose from the dead.

This is, of course, not mentioning the fact that the Bible was written *at least* 50 years after Jesus died... and not a single person who wrote a gospel *knew* the man named Jesus....

Check your facts.........Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James and Peter.

Originally posted by Pepperslappy
Sun Matrix. Can you please show evidence that all those things were prophicised.

Sure. But it will take a while.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well,even today some Jews consider Christ a messiah,but they are few and far in between. The religion itself certainly does not declare any messiah.

Today, sure. Today the two religions are two completely different branches.

But, what about in the beginning? Am I understanding that *no* Jews *ever* thought him the messiah? (okay, that sounds sarcastic, but I'm seriously inquiring. I do not know, but it seems kinda ludicrous to say that the Jews have *always* denied the messiah since it is a well known fact that he *was* a Jew...)

You are right about the large expanse of time that went by between the time the gospels were written and when Jesus was crucified. Your fifty year estimate is kind of a conservative one actually. I have heard that it was between 70-80 years after the death of Christ.

Truth be told, we'll never know. I've heard 50, 70, even 100..

But, considering that the gospels are narratives, how can we know any of these 'prophesies' are true? Because parts are based on the Old Testament?


I am honestly curious.

Sun Matrix. Can you please show evidence that all those things were prophicised.

Israel is restored as a nation after 2000 years....as prophesied How come after 2000 years the Jews didn't just blend into other cultures and completely disappear? Prophesied many places. See Ezekiel 37

Iran seeks to wipe Isreal from the face of the earth..........as prophesied. Psalm 83:4

Iraq is receiving the second phase of its three phase judgement......as prophesied Jeremiah 50 and 51........Isaiah 13

Russia is the ally of Iran..............as prophesied. Ezekiel 38:1-5

China and the kings of the east have a 200,000,000 man army.........as prophesied. Revelation 9:16

Originally posted by Sun Matrix Russia is the ally of Iran..............as prophesied. Ezekiel 38:1-5

Is Russia under a different name? I'm looking at that passage...
Iran *might be* Persia, but otherwise I don't see the connection.

China and the kings of the east have a 200,000,000 man army.........as prophesied. Revelation 9:16

Methinks this one is taken out of context...
(15) And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of man.
(16) And the number of the army of horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

Is China supposed to be 'the third part of man'? If so, where's it say that? I'm reading it.. sounds like a nifty battle, but....

The European union is the revived Roman Empire..............as prophesied. Revelation 17:7-8

A One World Government is forming..........as prophesied. Revelation 13:8,16

That's enough for tonight..........If you are still interested, Just ask and I will finish tomorrow.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

This is, of course, not mentioning the fact that the Bible was written *at least* 50 years after Jesus died... and not a single person who wrote a gospel *knew* the man named Jesus....

Check your facts.........Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James and Peter.

.....k?

State the fact.

That each of them wrote a Gospel? That is a fact, yes.

That each Gospel was written long after Jesus was dead? Yes, that, too, is a historical fact.



*thinks*
Granted, I have not read the Bible itself. This I cannot deny, and thus I am ignorant of many things. I freely admit this. (and on a daily basis too! )
However. I have read a book that tries to get back to the historical Jesus...

While I do not deny that the Bible has things to teach, lovely parables and such, I cannot hold it up as fact in and of itself, nor against history...

This is where, I think, our discussion may fall short.

Please feel free to produce that incorrect prophecy.......if you can. I will check back.

Originally posted by Or_Die_Trying
When the evidence is so obvious why does every bible thumper seem to think their idealogy is the one truth when its obviously based on more ancient knowledge and stories? this goes for muslims too and jews, and so forth.

such is the inherent flaw in (western) religion. "holier than thou", "we are right, you are wrong", "if youre not a part of [a religion], off to eternal damnation you go"

so, can any religious person answer this for me?

"if everybody is wrong, then how can anybody be right? if nobody is right, are we all going to hell? if so, whats the point of living a moral life?"


[edit on 11/13/2006 by prototism]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth I have noticed a continuous thread between all religions really. It seems to me that universal truth is an aspect of all religions.However, throughout time,religions tend to become corrupted. This is done more by the desire for control than through a inherent fallacy of the system itself.

Good Point!

I wonder, is there a way to work past the desire for control? To get back to the roots? ...maybe the roots need to be re-grown, perhaps?