why cant christians accept the origins of christianity

the problem here is that you have people slamming religion, for whatever reason, and have never even picked up the holy bible. Many of the arguements I see presented here are ideas that are being parroting from popular FICTION books about Religion, specifically Christianity. Reading commentaries and books like the "da vinci code" is not a substitute for actually reading the bible. Stop being so damn lazy and try to find a modern translation of the bible and see for yourselves!

I believe there are many reasons why christianity is attacked.

It was prophecised by christ on the mount of olives,

(Matthew 10:22-23 NKJV) "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. [23] "When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
(2 Timothy 3:12 NKJV) Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution."


I also believe that many are afraid of the existance of a God (i.e. proponets of atheism) because they are afraid to answer for what they have done. What they fail to realize is that, through christ, they have been redeemed of ALL their sins and may enter heaven. However, they are required to believe in Jesus Christ.

Christians enter heaven through faith in christ, not deeds done on the earth.

muslims believe there are only two ways to enter heaven. Through martyrdom or through their deeds.

Dont get these two confused.

Sun Matrix is also correct about the prophecies all coming true.

'Take heed that no man lead you astray.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall
lead many astray" (Matthew 24:4,5)

We see this all the time as well. They dont openly say, "I am the Christ" but they do say that they have answers that are the truth and everything else is false(evolutionists). There are a few who have openly said that they are Christ (waco).

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I also believe that many are afraid of the existance of a God (i.e. proponets of atheism) because they are afraid to answer for what they have done. What they fail to realize is that, through christ, they have been redeemed of ALL their sins and may enter heaven. However, they are required to believe in Jesus Christ.

Christians enter heaven through faith in christ, not deeds done on the earth.

You know the one that I always find amusing is that supposedly Christianity was created to control the masses through fear….

I love that one as it shows a lack of understanding of the fundamental principals that govern Christianity.

How can you have a religion that controls through fear, when the only thing that is required of its believers is to accept Christ as their savior, and truly repent their sins?


I see it all the time though, the same incorrect clichés that the non-Christian lobby uses to try and knock down Christianity. “Judge not lest ye be judged”, is another one I often see being misquoted and misused.

Originally posted by Baphomet79
So God respects no one. Forgive me if I am wrong in my "worldly view," but how can you love someone without respecting them, and do not try and argue that God does not need to respect us to love us, if we were made in his image then God and man both have the simultaneous attributes of love and respect right? Ahh I guess we are still operating in old-testament god mode, huh? That would explain it.

To understand what that phrase means you need to look at the context in which it was used:

And Peter opened his mouth and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to him.Acts 10:34-35 [New American Standard Bible]

In other words, what Peter was saying is that God does not take one persons side over another due to their worldly status or title, but accepts all who fear (love & honor) Him and live righteously.

WE love Him because He is God; He is the creator and sustainer of everything in the universe. We love Him because He first loved us enough to provide a way for a fallen creation (man) to be redeemed from sin and have fellowship with Him (1John 4:9-10). God does not need us to love Him or worship Him in order for Him to be "Validated" as worthy of worship and love; we worship and love Him because He is worthy of both of those things. God does not need us, we need Him.

The phrase "God made man in His image" does not mean that we look like God or that God has a physical body; it means that we were made as spiritual beings, we all have a soul and That is what God made in His image.

You know, if you are going to debate the merits of Christianity it would be wise to acquaint yourself with the appropriate information. Maybe read the Bible? Make up your mind about it intelligently, instead of buying whatever other people tell you.
What ever happened to denying ignorance, anyway?

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I also believe that many are afraid of the existance of a God (i.e. proponets of atheism) because they are afraid to answer for what they have done.

You believe wrong. If you're going to go after people who build arguments without being familiar with the matter at hand, then perhaps you should take your own advice and find out about the real driving forces behind atheism, and why people subscribe to it. It has nothing to do with fear, nothing at all, and you'll find that the lack of having a "get out of jail free card" (ie, christ) keeps the vast majority of athiests on the straight and narrow. They don't lie, steal, and kill simply because it hurts others, not because they're afraid of some eternal punishment fantasy.

We see this all the time as well. They dont openly say, "I am the Christ" but they do say that they have answers that are the truth and everything else is false(evolutionists). There are a few who have openly said that they are Christ (waco).

How much did that glass house cost you? And what would compel you to spend all of your time throwing rocks around in it?

[edit on 14/11/2006 by Thousand]

Humanity doesnt need a savior, it can be one by itself if humanity chooses for it, yet for centuries people have been worsening the globe under the illusion that everything will be ok, if you only believe in something we cant see, communicate with, etc. I'm not here to prove that it doesnt exist, the greatest problem is man's reliance on another being. Once you die, your personal belief (christianity, catholic, any religion) might not have been enough to make a difference on the world.

I think humanity itself is more than capable of changing things for the better, but having everyone on this world standing united in a common cause is sadly unreachable.

How far can belief go without losing sight of your own importance? I think religion sometimes belittles man, unnecessarily...

Originally posted by apex
Yes when all religions become one, apparently thats a bad thing.

However, the point made at the start of this thread said that Christianity shares features of other religions. So, therefore, this must mean if we assume there is a truth, that christianity is one way of looking at it. So this would mean all religions have a truth in them, not one is superior to the others.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Please stop.............Islam has nothing to do with Judaism or Christianity.

Islam comes from Babylon and is the worship of the Moon god. Check your facts.

While I think it was the case that Allah was a pagan Moon god, I don't think that they worship him in that way. Muhammed actually thought that Jesus was one of the greatest prophets from what I've read, so I'm thinking Islam is a branch off of Christianity, as christianity is a branch off of Judaism.

Exactly. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all known as the Abrahamic religions.
Here is an URL explaining what that means:
www.answerbag.com...

"The Abrahamic religions all trace back to the Prophet Abraham. God called Abraham out of his hometown Ur which is modern day Iraq to settle in Caanan (Israel).
There, God promised Abraham his descendants will forever inhabit those lands.
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are these three religions.
Many people ask well how does Islam claim to be an Abrahamic religion?
Abraham's first son, Ishmael, is the ancestor of all Muslims. The Prophet Muhammad is a direct descendant of Ishmael, thus being a descendant of Abraham."

Google Abrahamic religlions and you'll find many sources that explain what that means. The 3 religions are indeed related, which is why they're known as the Abrahamic religions.

I think everyones search is too narrow, you need to go back a few thousand years to find the real root of what you seek... though, I doubt you'll like it

IT has nothing to do with belief.
IT is faith in Lord that He sent His Son to die for the propitiation of our sins.
IT is as simple as that.
Concerning origins, I have faith that the origin of Christianity directly correlates with ACTS chapter 2: the Pentecost. Pick up a Bible and start reading. Start with ACTS chapter 2. Move all the way to the back and read Revelations. Then read 1st and 2nd John. Then read James and pay partcular attention to chapter 1 verse 5. Then read Job, in the Old Testament. READ JOB THROUGH COMPLETELY. You will be amazed at some of the things that they knew even that far along before Christ such as the description of the earth and its division with space, the existence of behemoth *sometimes considered the hippo* and leviathan *sometimes considered the crocodile*. After Job, contemplate your own life... and then read REVELATIONS again! Then continue to the gospels and start at the book of John *because that is the gospel that was directed to the gentiles, as the others were directed more towards the jews*. Then... read Revelations again.

After a while of reading the new testment *not in order, mind you* and going back and forth to Revelations, you're going to start to see the picture in your mind.

You don't have to believe anything. Atleast have a little faith and do the work. If you haven't read the Bible, then whatever you say about it has absolutely 0% authority and credibility.

And... I'm not the kind of servant who is willing to type up a bunch of out of contexts lines to try to prove any points. If you don't read these in context with eachother, then your current knowledge is merely being supplanted with tidbits of information like broken seeds without water.

Job's faith was tried more than ANYONE'S ever. Three of his best friends decided they would try to solve his problem... but only end up making it worse. A fourth friend comes along named Elihu, and he has more truth to his words, but lacks any kind of compassion. Once Job has told all of his friends that they're liars and that he IS righteous... God finally shows up to answer just as Job had kept begging... and thus commence the ending of Job -- Read it to find out.
But this is something that EVERYONE will be going through soon. Find out what Job lost... you will lose the same, and more. The devil will be unleashed upon the entire earth, not just Job, soon enough.
Read Revelations for the answer.

Have a little faith and do the work. Assume lest you be a fool.

Also read the book of Daniel - pay particular attention to when King Nebuchadnezzar (Saddam Hussein's idol) has dreams and Daniel interprets them. Pay attention to the movement of Daniel's rank, Daniel in the pit with the lions(and the Kings reaction), Daniel's ministry to Nebuchadnezzars successor, and most of all, to the dream King Nebuchadnezzar has about the statue with Gold at the top and Clay/iron mix at the feet which describes the One-World Kingdoms(governments) and their strength; King Nebuchadnezzar's consider the greatest kingdom ever (gold) and the last kingdom to come being weak and separate of itself (clay and iron). A LOT TO LEARN in Daniel and Revelations in cohesion.

[edit on 14-11-2006 by TarzanBeta]

Sun Matrix...

I can't remember the name of the fallacy, but you're misleading people and yourself. You listed quite a few prophecies that came true, but you never listed the ones that didn't.

Some of Nostradamus' prophecies came true, and oh yeah, many other religions have prophecies that came true. Thing is, we assign truth ambiguously, and other times we intentionally force the prophecy to come true by finding that one even that seems to correlate.

Very, very irresponsible, Mr. Christian. I myself blindly believe Jesus lived and believed his ideas were good, but I also believe he was just a regular guy who touched on many aspects of the human function. He advocated for fairness, honor, wise decisions, love, and any other common sense ideal. For that, he shall be respected and remembered as a good role model. Stories that call him the son of God are simply fantastic in nature - it wasn't true at all. But then the Church decided to use these fantastic stories as truth for their own interests.

[edit on 14-11-2006 by Glooper23]

[edit on 14-11-2006 by Glooper23]

Wow!! What a lot of posts by a lot of learned men and women. But I like to Keep things simple.

1. I am a Christian because I beleive Christ died for my sins and I accept him as my Savior. PERIOD. That IS the basis of Christianity. No More, No Less. Everything else is Religion and Religion is a man made construct (Sorry to the Pastors and ministers that have posted). Denominations are created by man because ". . . WE believe. . ." Now, reconsider what you thought a Christian was or what a Christian believes.


2. Consider this:
I believe Christ is my Savior.
If I am wrong and Christ is not who He says He is, I lose nothing.
If I am right I gain everything.

If you beleive Christ is not who He says He is and He isn't you lose nothing.
If you beleive Christ is not who He says He is but He is, you're toast.
It don't take a rocket scientist to figure out those logic gates!

3. Of course all religions and beliefs have the same basis. We all came from the same woman. That is scientifically proven by mitrocondral DNA. Since we all came from the same family, all languages, beliefs, etc came from the same place. Now, however many years ago you place that is beside the point. I believe God created us and the multiverse. I believe God is personal and not some far off thing. I believe He dwells in me Through His Holly Spirit.

4. Everything else, all the points you may argue about, discuss, or kill over are man made constructs or misunderstandings. Remember I try to keep it simple. It all goes back to "Ocums Razor"- the simplest answer is probably correst. Ocum's Razor cuts through all the s... .

Originally posted by charlesmelissa

2. Consider this:
I believe Christ is my Savior.
If I am wrong and Christ is not who He says He is, I lose nothing.
If I am right I gain everything.

If you beleive Christ is not who He says He is and He isn't you lose nothing.
If you beleive Christ is not who He says He is but He is, you're toast.
It don't take a rocket scientist to figure out those logic gates!

There is of course a problem with that argument, namely it assumes that only christianity is possibly the truth.

You can see my opinion in my post anyway, that all religions have elements of the truth. I was a christian, and still am predominantly, but I won't go so far as to say it is better than anything else.

Originally posted by Glooper23
Sun Matrix...

I can't remember the name of the fallacy, but you're misleading people and yourself. You listed quite a few prophecies that came true, but you never listed the ones that didn't.

Some of Nostradamus' prophecies came true, and oh yeah, many other religions have prophecies that came true. Thing is, we assign truth ambiguously, and other times we intentionally force the prophecy to come true by finding that one even that seems to correlate.

Confirmation bias?

Most of the prophecies that sun matrix mentions are pure extrapolation from pure interpretation of amibiguous text.

The only definite one I see he mentioned is the reformation of Israel - big deal....

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by Glooper23
Sun Matrix...

I can't remember the name of the fallacy, but you're misleading people and yourself. You listed quite a few prophecies that came true, but you never listed the ones that didn't.

Some of Nostradamus' prophecies came true, and oh yeah, many other religions have prophecies that came true. Thing is, we assign truth ambiguously, and other times we intentionally force the prophecy to come true by finding that one even that seems to correlate.

Confirmation bias?

Most of the prophecies that sun matrix mentions are pure extrapolation from pure interpretation of amibiguous text.

The only definite one I see he mentioned is the reformation of Israel - big deal....

Really, I suggest that your read Jeremiah 50 and 51 and also Isaiah 13 then tell me if that is not what is happening in Iraq.

Originally posted by Glooper23
Sun Matrix...


Very, very irresponsible, Mr. Christian. I myself blindly believe Jesus lived and believed his ideas were good, but I also believe he was just a regular guy who touched on many aspects of the human function. He advocated for fairness, honor, wise decisions, love, and any other common sense ideal. For that, he shall be respected and remembered as a good role model. Stories that call him the son of God are simply fantastic in nature - it wasn't true at all. But then the Church decided to use these fantastic stories as truth for their own interests.

Can a regular guy calm the oceans and winds, feed 5000 with a few fish etc.

OK. I was going to give my typical rant about what religion is and why we made it that way but it is long and I don't want to hijack your thread so Il sum it up and give you the link to my thread where I explain it, that way anyone reading is free to decide whether or not to read my thoughts instead of me forcing it upon you.

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Ok, essential I make a claim that all religions are formed by their culture, their culture is not formed by their religion.

Even Christianity, which has its origins in the Middle East is a very European religion.. it does not fit in with the Jewish way of though nor the Arab way of thought.. pure European.

Judiasm is purely semetic, taken from Egyptian religions because that is where they where held captive for a while, they took on a monotheistic side of the Egyptian religion. Arabs then made it their own by forming Islam, which is taken right from Arab culture, even back then.. that is why they are the way they are because their ancestors formed a religion around their culture which is then used down the generations to form the social identity.

Click the link for my full description.

As to why they cannot accept the origins is like I said, it is European. Whether or not they took their ideas from other gods, whether or not their holidays are taken from "peagan" holidays is irrelevent in the fact that Christianity is undeniably European in contrast to anyother religion (especially the two other sister religions)

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Really, I suggest that your read Jeremiah 50 and 51 and also Isaiah 13 then tell me if that is not what is happening in Iraq.

I saw an illegal war and now a slowly developing civil war that will probably lead to the break up of Iraq as we know it. Given time, Iran and Syria, with some outside interaction, will help the warring parties make peace.

Not a biblical prophecy, no kingdom of nations, just the US and British forces indicating how poorly prepared they were, people will live there for a long time, no destruction of the land. Just a poorly conceived war led by arrogant fools which has led to a civil war. In 100 years, whatever becomes of Iraq will lead to new prophecies based on the writings of uneducated people relating to whatever they now deem Babylon to be.

And the ruins of babylon will be restored with time, not destroyed, although the american helicopters did their best to destroy an ancient archeological site

Sun Matrix,

Very well said my friend, I will look forward to seeing whatever else this person can try to conjure up to debunk the truth, only to see it fall far short to what is written about and prophesized in the Bible!

apex, I like your Header: Nihil Sine Deo
- that is very true.

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
Sun Matrix,

Very well said my friend, I will look forward to seeing whatever else this person can try to conjure up to debunk the truth, only to see it fall far short to what is written about and prophesized in the Bible!

Only a fantasist can see any of this relating to the european union...

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand afull of abominations and bfilthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, aMYSTERY, bBABYLON THE GREAT, THE cMOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the ablood of the saints, and with the blood of the bmartyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great cadmiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into aperdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the bbook of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the amind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven akings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten ahorns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make awar with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is bLord of lords, and cKing of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the awhore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and bburn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and agive their kingdom unto the beast, until the bwords of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great acity, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

This whore of babylon has been suggested to many various institutions, interpreted as being relevant to the current climate. Once you start with a conclusion, you will search for whatever you believe confirms this, ignore the conflicting information. When wrong beyond doubt, you move on to another interpretation.

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
Sun Matrix,

Very well said my friend, I will look forward to seeing whatever else this person can try to conjure up to debunk the truth, only to see it fall far short to what is written about and prophesized in the Bible!

Isaiah 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. 2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. 3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. 4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like F70 as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. 5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

Jeremiah 50:41 Behold, a people shall come from the north, and a great nation, and many kings shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.

The outcome of our efforts to restore Babylon

8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed. 9 We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country: for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies.

Final destruction to occur on the day of the Lord by the Kurds who are the ancient Medes.

[edit on 14-11-2006 by Sun Matrix]