The Rapture Conspiracy Explained

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by jensouth31
It was because they were not ready when he came for them…and they didn’t get a second chance. So anyway, I hope that helps with why I don’t believe in a second chance. There weren’t any 2nd chances in Noah’s day for the wicked…nor in Sodom & Gomorrah, only the righteous were saved….and the numbers were grim, if you recall.

Hi Jen,

In the two examples given God provided a way of escape for the righteous.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He will provide a way of escape for the righteous.

You also mentioned the harvest. Learn the parable of the fig tree. There are two harvests.

You're right God did provide a way out in both example And he's providing a way out this time too...It's Jesus Christ. But for those who don't want the out

Edit** Spelling error

[edit on 9/28/2006 by jensouth31]

Originally posted by jensouth31

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by jensouth31
It was because they were not ready when he came for them…and they didn’t get a second chance. So anyway, I hope that helps with why I don’t believe in a second chance. There weren’t any 2nd chances in Noah’s day for the wicked…nor in Sodom & Gomorrah, only the righteous were saved….and the numbers were grim, if you recall.

Hi Jen,

In the two examples given God provided a way of escape for the righteous.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He will provide a way of escape for the righteous.

You also mentioned the harvest. Learn the parable of the fig tree. There are two harvests.

You're right God did provide a way out in both example

And he's providing a way out this time too...It's Jesus Christ. But for those who don't want the out

Edit** Spelling error

[edit on 9/28/2006 by jensouth31]

Not looking for the out, looking for the truth.

Terral,
I've looked briefly through this thread and decided to sign up today. In your OP you stated something along the lines of that there is no OT prophecy about a pretrib rapture? While I agree that there aren't any explicit ("in your face") verses, Malachi 3:16-18 seems to imply a pretrib rapture:

Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

I've also noted that Exodus 19 has quite a few similarities ('shadows') of a rapture (trumpet, smoke(clouds), lightning, call to be ready for the 3rd day and God calling Moses to come up).

Please also note that the "Day of the Lord" is not a GOOD thing:

Amos 5:18-20 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

My favorite verse for pretrib is this:
Luke 21:36

Luke 21:36 (KJV) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

I admire and thank you for the time you've spent researching this doctrine. I'm not quite sure I subscribe to the theory you've proposed that Matt. 24 describes the end of the 1000 years, though. I'm no expert on eschatology but I do enjoy reading about it because eschatology does concern me.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Not looking for the out, looking for the truth.

If I made you feel that way I sincerely apologize. I'm horrified to think that you thought that. Please don't think that, ever. I am actually really ejoying our interaction (Mine & yours) I will answer any questions that you ask of me Sun Matrix. I'm glad that you are looking for the truth.
Jen

Hi PreTribGuy:

Something tells me you like this topic. : 0 )

PreTribGuy >> Terral, I've looked briefly through this thread and decided to sign up today. In your OP you stated something along the lines of that there is no OT prophecy about a pretrib rapture?

Please do me a favor and read my two part Opening Post again. Then “quote >>” something from that work to give your statements context. That way I can gather some idea of what you are talking about. Paul describes ‘our’ Rapture in 1Thes. 4:13-17 with information also given to the Corinthians in 1Cor. 15:51-53. Your OT references are waaaay off base, which we know by the fact that Israel anticipates being resurrected to be led into the Promised Land:

“Then He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.' “Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.” Ezekiel 37:11+12.

Please understand that I debate with Jews all the time on various topics. If you want to see a total blank stare from a Jew, then ask him about being Raptured to heaven. Heh . . . Since Jews do not interpret OT Scripture to include ANY kind of Rapture, then we are foolish for trying to twist things and force that outcome for ourselves. One reason they cannot accept our NT as “God-breathed” Scripture (2Tim. 3:16+17) is because of teachings like our Rapture. My thesis says Paul is describing the ‘start’ of the “Day of the Lord” and Christ is describing the ‘end’ some 1000 Years LATER. What does Peter say?

“But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day . . . But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.” 2Peter 3:8+10.

Bible commentators today ‘fail’ to provide a ‘1000 Year’ duration for the “Day of the Lord,” because Peter’s simple fact escapes their notice. Since you are trying to make connections between Matt. 24 and the OT, I should think you would be quoting Daniel instead (Matt. 24:15, Dan. 11:31, 12:11-13).

Please also note that the "Day of the Lord" is not a GOOD thing:

Heh . . . okie. The “Day of the Lord” is very good at the beginning of the 1000 years and very bad near the end. We know that by Joel’s two part prophecy that Peter quotes and revises in Acts 2:

“And it shall be in the LAST DAYS,' God says, 'That I will pour forth My Spirit upon ALL MANKIND; and your sons and your daughters shall prophecy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my bondslaves , both men and women, I will in those days pour forth my of My Spirit; and they shall prophesy.” Acts 2:17+18.

God’s Spirit must be poured out on all mankind, BEFORE the second part of the prophecy can even begin. Christ says the same thing in His Olivet Discourse:

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Matt. 24:14.

These verses work as the ‘restrainer’ keeping the prophecies attached to them from starting, until part ‘a’ is complete. The antichrist cannot come to the Holy Place (Matt. 24:15), until this ‘gospel of the kingdom’ goes to the whole world. We do not even preach that gospel today. See the difference here ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ). God’s Spirit is poured out through the laying of hands (Acts 8:16+17, 19:6) for that gospel message, which ‘restrains’ the second part of Joel’s prophecy from starting until the very ‘end of the age’ (Matt. 24:3).

“And I will grant wonders in the sky above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke. The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood [Matt. 24:29], and before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come. And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Acts 2:19-21.

This is the second and final phase of the “Day of the Lord” that scholars believe depicts the ‘entire’ day as a single event. They have not created enough room in their theologies to realize we are talking about 1000 years for the ‘two part’ prophecies to be fulfilled. They also trip, stumble and fall over the truth that Elijah MUST return first and restore all things (Matt. 17:10-11, Acts 3:19-26). If you will examine all the evidence very carefully, I believe you will begin to see a clearer picture of what Scripture is teaching on this “Day of the Lord” topic. GL,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Hi Sun Matrix:

Originally posted by Sun Matrix >> Not looking for the out, looking for the truth.

Okay; I could not help reading Jen’s Post and her quote. While Flyer and others do not even believe in a Rapture, you cannot be placed in that category. Sparky has settled down and maybe we can have a serious debate on this topic. I will delete the Ignore go through any posts you have on this thread and give you my best efforts also.

GL in the debate,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Originally posted by Sun Matrix


Valhall

These myths and endless genealogies are not referring to the rapture they are referring to the Myths that come from Babylon. Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz become countless genealogies that spread across the world in the form of the sun god instead of the Son of God. They become Osiris, Isis and Horus in Egypt.
The greeks know Osiris as Zues and Horus as Hercules the savior of the world. etc. etc. etc. etc.

These are the myths and genealogies that are being referred to.

Thank you, but I know that very well. But it still applies to all false teachers.

Originally posted by jensouth31

Thank goodness God didn’t leave us ignorant to the number of Trumpets that will sound. There are 7 trumpets.

Revelations 8: 6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

KJV

I believe there is a rapture before the tribulation. As far as the above verse. Some people(including Bible scholars) believe that the Jewish feast Rosh Hashanah will line up with the rapture, since the first 4 feasts have already lined up with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection and the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, prophetically.

Rosh Hashanah is also called the Feast of Trumpets. I have heard from at least 3 Bible scholars that Rosh Hashanah actually lasts for longer than one day and it actually involves many trumpet blasts(if I remember there can be as many as 100 trumpet blasts).

In 1 Corinthians 15 it says that it will occur at the last trump [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

We are told that we won't know the day or the hour of Christ's return in the Bible. The tribulation lasts a certain number of days, so during the actual tribulation it would be possible to figure out the day of Jesus return.


But during Rosh Hashanah(Feast of TRUMPETS) which lasts more than one day and has many trumpet blasts the verse takes on new meaning.

Now I have not nearly done the 7 feasts of Israel and how the first 4 have lined up prophetically with major Bible events, justice. I would suggest anyone interested google more info on this subject and you will find out some amazing things.

Lastly there are many many verses indicating a rapture before the tribulation, not 2 or 3, but many.

Originally posted by WiseSheep

Originally posted by dbrandt
In Rev. ch. 4 a door in heaven is opened(indicating the rapture has occurred).

Well here's alittle somethin to make things interesting.

Why then in chapter five, verse three, Jesus is nowhere to be found in heaven nor in earth nor under the earth?

I don't know where you got that from. Here it is:

Rev.5
[1] And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
[2] And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
[3] And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
[4] And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
[5] And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
[7] And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

It says no man was found anywhere worthy to open the book. All mankind has sinned so of course no one of us is worthy. But Jesus is more than a man, He is the God man and He was/is sinless, so He is worthy.

And as you can read in verse 6, the Lamb(Jesus) was in the midst of the throne(that is in heaven).

So this will sound snotty but isn't meant to be, but I think you missed some major things in your reading of CH. 5.

That's a good post, and I tend to believe what you said. I have done some study on the feasts, and I have every reason to believe Christ will fulfill the rest, just as he has the feast 'past'.

I want to make it clear to you though....I do...I do believe Jesus is coming back for us....I just think "When" is what has many interpretation. I don't think we will know for a fact when we are in tribulation....we've been in tribulation for 2000 years. I also think the seven year tribulation was brought on the Jews 2000 years ago. Daniels 70 weeks, time of Jacobs trouble. It took 7 years for Jerusalem to completely fall. But in the midst of that week, the sacrifice ceased. If you are interested...I can send you a link on the history of the fall of Jerusalem.

Terral,
In your OP you said:

To straighten out the mess created by the scholars of our day, we must come to realize that anything Paul attaches to “the mystery” (Ephesians 3:3, Colossians 1:26) was NOT seen by any of the Old Testament prophets.

"NOT seen by any of the Old Testament prophets" somewhat implies 'man-inspired' scripture and I don't think you mean this. If you mean that they didn't expilictly know and SAY it, then yes, I agree. Apparently, God made eschatology quite hard for us in the end times. But Job, himself, knew of a 'redeemer'...

Job said:

Job 19:25 (KJV) For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Although he (Job) did not name Jesus by name, he knew of a redeemer who lives.

I apologize for not quoting from your OP. I'm just trying to get the hang of this software for this forum. I run several PhpBB forums myself and this is slightly different and the rules are a little more strict than I use for my own forums...but I digress.

A brother of mine read your opening post and he noted that you have not distinguished between the Day of CHRIST (in 2 Thess. 2:1-3) and the Day of the LORD. He also stated that distinguishing between these actually strengthens your point/argument for a pre-trib rapture.

He had a fantastic email he sent to me on this, but I don't think it's within the rules of this forum to post it.

...waaaay off base

Actually, Terral, I think they are quite helpful for your argument of a pre-trib rapture. Your quote of Ezekiel 37:11-12 is quite interesting. Verses 13 and 14 are, also, quite interseting. As I said, I'm no expert. I enjoy reading about it though.

You pointed out that Jews don't see any 'rapture'?

Ooops...sorry...

If you want to see a total blank stare from a Jew, then ask him about being Raptured to heaven. Heh . . . Since Jews do not interpret OT Scripture to include ANY kind of Rapture, then we are foolish for trying to twist things and force that outcome for ourselves.

Jewish people don't see Jesus in the OT, so why should they see any rapture doctrine?

You quoted Acts 2:16-17 and did not distinguish between last day and last dayS. I'm not sure this is REALLY important, but just something I noticed just now. (Again, I'm a novice)

Joel 2:28-32 says:

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

And Acts 2:17-18 says:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

"Afterward" and "last days" are not the synonymous with the Day (singular) of the Lord.

As for 'restrainer' you speak of? I've believed this to be the Holy Ghost, but I'm not positive on this. It could be God protecting the 'hidden Church'? I'm not sure.

As for Elijah returning?

Either Elijah returned as John the Baptist or Elijah will be one of the two witnesses in Revelation. (I think Enoch will be the other).

Originally posted by jensouth31
If you are interested...I can send you a link on the history of the fall of Jerusalem.

There is a guy at my church who told me about this. Thanks though. One thing with the Bible. What's amazing is some verses of the Bible can have more than one application. It's just amazing that God can weave thousands of events throughout history into verses of the Bible.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Why in 4v6 was there a empty sea of glass surrounding the throne of the father if the bride was there? There was no groom let alone a bride at this point.

Look back at verse 4.The "24" elders are the bride, and Christ(the Lamb) was there all along.

Jen,
I know that your last post wasn't sent to me but you (almost?) seem to imply a preterist point of view?

The 'tribulation' you speak of is noted, but Jesus spoke of tribulation that the world has never seen and never WILL see again:

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Was the flood in Noah's time close? No...Not according to the above verse. (Note that this tribulation was not seen since the beginning of the world...) The "Great Tribulation" spoken of by Jesus didn't take place in 70 AD. This is tribulation that has NEVER been seen...and it will REALLY REALLY suck for everyone (still) here on the earth. WW2 will be a cakewalk compared to THIS tribulation that Jesus speaks of.

dbrandt

Perhaps is how people tend to interpret verses of the bible what we should point out.

The bible is a book that has help build many believes and many opinions, interpretations and definitions depending on faith.

The reason?

because the death can never be back to correct any mistake.

If you look at the different denomination of Churches everyone of them has an opinion of how God is guiding them to fulfill its mission on earth and each church denomination has its own book of revelations per interpretations on how the word of God is to be followed.

It seems that is a different God's agenda per denomination of Church.

And different Churches accused each other for misinterpretations of the holy scriptures.

That simple point makes possible for people like Mr. Terral to be able to get his own interpretations and opinions of what he believes is true.

Is he guilty? for wanting a new approach to his faith? it is faith what guides him? or just cashing out of a different school of thinking.

I wonder.

Many churches has sprouted just because of that, and is many people that will follow blindly a new approach to their faith.

We are only humans.







[edit on 28-9-2006 by marg6043]

Originally posted by dbrandt

I believe there is a rapture before the tribulation. As far as the above verse. Some people(including Bible scholars) believe that the Jewish feast Rosh Hashanah will line up with the rapture, since the first 4 feasts have already lined up with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection and the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, prophetically.

Rosh Hashanah is also called the Feast of Trumpets. I have heard from at least 3 Bible scholars that Rosh Hashanah actually lasts for longer than one day and it actually involves many trumpet blasts(if I remember there can be as many as 100 trumpet blasts).


But during Rosh Hashanah(Feast of TRUMPETS) which lasts more than one day and has many trumpet blasts the verse takes on new meaning.

Now I have not nearly done the 7 feasts of Israel and how the first 4 have lined up prophetically with major Bible events, justice. I would suggest anyone interested google more info on this subject and you will find out some amazing things.



A lot of people think the rapture will occurr on the Feast of Trumpets. But that is a Jewish feast for the harvest of the Jews. There will be two harvests. Learn the parable of the fig tree.

The trup being talked about is not in revelations or the Feast of Trumpets. It is the likely the trumpet that was blown on mount Sinai at the giving of the law. EXODUS 20:18 The Jewish day of Pentecost when the Law was given, and the Gentile day of Pentecost when the Spirit was given. This is the Feast of Weeks that ends on Pentecost.

This is the first harvest.



[edit on 28-9-2006 by Sun Matrix]

Originally posted by dbrandt



I believe there is a rapture before the tribulation. As far as the above verse. Some people(including Bible scholars) believe that the Jewish feast Rosh Hashanah will line up with the rapture, since the first 4 feasts have already lined up with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection and the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, prophetically.

Rosh Hashanah is also called the Feast of Trumpets. I have heard from at least 3 Bible scholars that Rosh Hashanah actually lasts for longer than one day and it actually involves many trumpet blasts(if I remember there can be as many as 100 trumpet blasts).


But during Rosh Hashanah(Feast of TRUMPETS) which lasts more than one day and has many trumpet blasts the verse takes on new meaning.

Now I have not nearly done the 7 feasts of Israel and how the first 4 have lined up prophetically with major Bible events, justice. I would suggest anyone interested google more info on this subject and you will find out some amazing things.

A lot of people think the rapture will occurr on the Feast of Trumpets. But that is a Jewish feast for the harvest of the Jews. There will be two harvests. Learn the parable of the fig tree.

The trup being talked about is not in revelations or the Feast of Trumpets. It is the likely the trumpet that was blown on mount Sinai at the giving of the law. EXODUS 20:18 The Jewish day of Pentecost when the Law was given, and the Gentile day of Pentecost when the Spirit was given. This is the Feast of Weeks that ends on Pentecost.

This is the first harvest.



[edit on 28-9-2006 by Sun Matrix]

Originally posted by jensouth31
That's a good post, and I tend to believe what you said. I have done some study on the feasts, and I have every reason to believe Christ will fulfill the rest, just as he has the feast 'past'.

I want to make it clear to you though....I do...I do believe Jesus is coming back for us....I just think "When" is what has many interpretation. I don't think we will know for a fact when we are in tribulation....we've been in tribulation for 2000 years. I also think the seven year tribulation was brought on the Jews 2000 years ago. Daniels 70 weeks, time of Jacobs trouble. It took 7 years for Jerusalem to completely fall. But in the midst of that week, the sacrifice ceased. If you are interested...I can send you a link on the history of the fall of Jerusalem.

I believe that only 69 weeks of Daniel have passed. The clock was stopped and the 70th week of Daniel occurrs in the 7 year tribulation. That is the time of Jacobs trouble.

Hi Sun Matrix:

I am a bit confused about why you chose to write on the Deity topic on the Rapture thread. Please take those concerns here:

Trinity Thread >> www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sun >> A Christian believes that Jesus was raised from the dead and is God. Terral does not believe this if you read his other posts in different threads.

No sir. Our profession of faith goes like this:

“But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.” Romans 10:9-10.

"Jesus Christ" (Rev. 1:1,2,5) is the “Son of God” (Rev. 2:18) and “The Almighty” (Rev. 1:8) is “His God and Father” (Rev. 1:6). Replacing the “one God” with our “One Mediator” “Christ Jesus” (1Timothy 2:5) "between God AND men" amounts to nothing more than IDOLATRY. Jesus Christ is the at “right hand of God” (Col. 3:1-3) making intercession for believers (Rom. 8:34) as we speak.

Sun Matrix >> If you look at his charts.............Spirit........Blood..........Water. The water teaching comes from Babylon. Right Terral.

Your comments have no basis in reality whatsoever. All of my diagrams are taken directly from the ‘relationships’ of the ‘principals’ given to us through God’s Word. Scripture says,

“This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are into the one.” 1John 5:6-8.

Draw two large circles on a blank sheet of paper to create three equal parts ( full explanation here: www.levitt.com... ). In the left hand (or top) semicircle write (Spirit / Father) and in the right hand semicircle write (Water / Holy Spirit); then in the central (only begotten) section write “Blood / Son.” Your diagram just illustrated the spiritual equation provided by God Himself in Luke 1:35, which says,

“The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit (water witness = Helper = John 16:7) will come upon you, and the power of the Most High (Spirit = Father = Christ is “Only Begotten From The Father” = John 1:14) will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God(blood witness).” Luke 1:35.

Your Bible is literally filled with triune mystery sets of spirit, water and blood witnesses, but only if God opens your eyes to see them:





The triune mystery sets testifying on this Rapture Topic are “Word Teaching" (singularity expression) = “Prophecy Unclothed” (Old Testament) + “Mystery Revealed” (Pauline Epistles) + “Prophecy Fulfilled” (Kingdom Epistles). The "Dispensations" testifying are "Mosaic Law" (under Moses = Old Testament) + "Dispensation Of God's Grace" (Eph. 3:2 given to Paul) +"Kingdom Dispensation" (Matt. 16:16-19 given to Peter). Only “Paul” sees our “mystery” (1Cor. 15:51) translation to immorality (1Cor. 15:53) via the “Rapture” (1Thes. 4:16-17), which stands between the two veils (see bottom of diagram) within the “Holy Place” of Scripture. Christ’s “end of the age” (Matt. 24:3+) gathering of “The Elect” (Matt. 24:31) is found in the “Kingdom Epistles” where “Prophecy is Clothed.”

Modern day scholars and Bible commentators mix the blood witness ‘mystery’ (Paul’s Revelations) components with the water witness ‘prophesy fulfilled’ (OT and Kingdom NT overlapping) elements to DEFILE BOTH. “Cutting Straight” (2Tim. 2:15) the word of truth means placing the ‘spirit, water and blood’ principals in the correct columns of these two diagrams. In every case the “three are into the one” principals on the right represent the singularity expression from the “Three Witnesses Of” column, again, IF God has given you eyes to see these things.

All of these things will be described in great detail on “The Mystery Explained” Thread, when these three threads have run their course. We need to skin our knees in attempting to stand first, before trying to walk and run. GL in the Debate,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Hi Sun Matrix:

I am a little bit surprised that your “minimal” off-topic (“Name Your God!”) posts have not drawn the attention of the Mods, especially in light of the fact your concerns were answered (posted on 26-9-2006 at 09:45 PM (post id: 2513651), where this appears:

Terral’s Answer [new highlights]>> My ‘one God’ (1Tim. 2:5) is the God and Father (Rev. 1:6) of our Lord Jesus Christ His “Only Begotten Son” (John 3:16). Christ Jesus is the “one Mediator” between God and men at the “right hand of God” (Col. 3:1-3) making intercession (Romans 8:34) for believers as we speak. 1Timothy 2:5. My God sent His Son to die for us at Calvary and He raised Jesus Christ from the dead (Rom. 10:9, 1Cor. 15:3+4), so our forgiveness could be through His precious blood. Eph. 1:7.”

Jesus Christ gives the name of His God and my God here, saying,

"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” John 17:3.

This verse also appears in my previous explanation of the true identity of ‘my God,’ which finds Jesus Christ referring to Himself as “Jesus Christ.” Why does the “Son of God” refer to Himself in the ‘First Person?’ The entire Gospel Of John reads very differently, when you realize “My Father who is in heaven” is the “spirit” of “Christ Jesus” and Jesus Christ is the “soul (blood) and the Holy Spirit (Helper) is the “body” (water) of “Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:6) incarnate on this earth as “Jesus Christ.” The Father is “IN” Christ (John 14:10+11) and Christ is “Full of the Holy Spirit” (Luke 4:1), which makes the “Son of God” a “three are into the One” (1John 5:8) Tabernacle/Temple “IN” whom the fullness of Deity (God IN Christ = 2Cor. 5:19) “Dwells” (Col. 2:9). Jesus Christ refers to Himself as “Jesus Christ” in the First Person, because “My Father” is “IN” Me speaking to Israel. This explains why Christ says,

"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, AND have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?” John 14:7-9.

And yet, “No one has see God at any time . . .”. John 1:18. That is because “My Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 10:32+33) is the “spirit” witness of “The Logos,” while the three witnesses of “The Almighty” appear with Him in Revelation 1:8. Terral speaks of himself in the first person, because “Christ in you” (Col. 1:27) and “God IN Christ” (2Cor. 5:19) are also addressing you, in the same way “My Father” is addressing Israel in the Four Gospels. : 0 ) That might sound spooky, but wait until you stand in Judgment here (2Cor. 5:10 = my brothers) or here (Rev. 20:11-15 = my adversaries) to find out your Judge (my God) was speaking ‘to you’ on the earth all the time.

Sun >> Certainly, I would debate the Rapture issues with you but first: You painted a nice picture above in your quote but you have failed to answer the question. WHAT IS THE NAME OF YOUR GOD? It's a simple question that requires but a name.

Please stop being foolish. My God is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who raised Him from the dead (Rom. 10:9, 1Cor. 15:3+4). Most everyone knows Him as “God” and there is only “one God” (1Tim. 2:5). Rather than post a half dozen “Name Your God!” one-liner posts, simply use the U2U messaging system and direct me to any unanswered post you would like to see answered. Please be reminded that I am here to defend all attacks to my hypothesis at the very top of the Opening Post of this thread and our gracious Mods have asked us several times to stay focused upon the Rapture Topic. Therefore, please understand if I fail to reply to your ‘off-topic’ requests.

In Christ Jesus even now,

Terral