For all the Athiests.........

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by NJE777
In the end, I was like...have your opinion but dont f***king mouth off to me as I dont upset you saying Mohammed isnt a Prophet.

I never get tired of love-filled Christians.

they are as loved filled as any muslim, any member of islam, and any follower of Mohammed the prophet.

Christians and Muslims have the same flaw.

It is not that they are not "loved filled".

They are full of love. But what "LOVE" are they full of?

0 - before the sperm ever met the egg, they were destined to be "Self before (*pre) serve". each and every cell that comprises the whole of all Christians and all muslims is following the genetic command of "Selfish before i serve anything or anyone" . ** anything or anyone because there is no end to the command of "Self PRE-Serve" Which has an automatic byproduct of humanities first love:

1 - FEAR. a love for fear because it is an automatic byproduct of our instincts. It is the tool neccessary to give us the knowledge which is the pre-requisite neccesity for being capable of identifying, acknowledging, recognizing, and accepting what has the potential to harm us, and take from us what we love. But, fear often has a defense mechanism which is the mask of "HATE".

2- FOOD. a love for food because it is neccessary for cellular reproduction, and needed for a person to grow into the macro-organism, or whole person.

3- FAMILEY. a love for family because they nurished us, provided us with food, and protected us from harm, and helped us hide our fears from us, because we did not want to know them.

4- FRIENDS. a love for friends because we needed and wanted to belong. a love for friends because we needed and wanted to be accepted. Friends also provided us with FUN, as did our family. And fun aided us to hide from our fears as well.

5- FORNICATION. a love for love. a love for fornication because we were curious about this thing called love, and fornication was the physical manifestation of love, and a step in the direction of comprehending love, so that we would know it.

6- FINANCES. a love for finances. a love for finances because they offered us a way to obtain more of all our previous loves, and helped conceal our fears from ourselves, and our cells. with finances we could afford more fornication, we could afford more friends, we could afford more family (a wife, and more children), and we could afford more food. and our finances could hide our original fears from ourselves, but the fear of losing our finances is the only fear we/they/us/ and them could see, because we feared losing what we love.

Remember the first commandment?

look at the things humanity has loved before they loved god:

6 choices made to love 6 things before god that all begin with the 6th letter of the "all fib i bet" (alphibet), all chosen before humanity chose to love the 7th letter of the alphabet (alpha's bet) the "G", which is the alpha of God.

"i am the word".

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by NJE777
In the end, I was like...have your opinion but dont f***king mouth off to me as I dont upset you saying Mohammed isnt a Prophet.

I never get tired of love-filled Christians.

The "Love filled Christians" you never get tired of are filled with the same LOVES all muslims are filled with as well.

And what do all humans LOVE?

all humanity loves: 6 6 6

Fear
Food
Family
Friends
Fornication
Finances

And what do all humans LOVE?

all humanity loves: 6 6 6

6 choices made to love 6 things before god that all begin with the 6th letter of the "all fib i bet" (alphibet), all chosen before humanity chose to love the 7th letter of the alphabet (alpha's bet) the "G", which is the alpha of God.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by NJE777
In the end, I was like...have your opinion but dont f***king mouth off to me as I dont upset you saying Mohammed isnt a Prophet.

I never get tired of love-filled Christians.

Really? Because i just got tired of all non christians and all those who call themselves "christians" who got so tired as to not love their own truth enough before they thought it was a great idea to open their mouths and speak untruths.

I think God does exsistece. Simply because everything comes from somewhere, but no one knows where. Plus, we have no idea what's really outside the universe. So it's completely ambigious. I just don't think I could deal with how terrible how things have gotten, unless there's a tiny chance, one or something, or something in a deminson close to ours is out there. Otherwise, I would've done all the terrible things they wanted me to do, instead of trying to show how bad "celebrity" has affect my superiors at work, my social, my possible professional life in the future, and so many other things.

why is this thread aimed at atheists though?

enlightenment has nothing to do with atheists or organized religion, it has everything to do with spirituality and the soul.

Cheeser,
The rest of the "Gospels" that are left out of the modern day new testamnet canon, were consider gnostic in nature and not included because of several reasons, of which I shall mention two;

1. These other gospels have some pretty big contradictions to the gospels that are included in the new testament , and so they were questioned and not included.

2. These other gospels all come into the picture 150+ years after the ones that were written that are now included in the new testament. The sources or origen are questionable.

Now of course the flip-side of this is that the minority gnostic-christians followed these additional gospels and were under constant attack and threatened by the majority Christian view for beng heretics and so forth. After reading most of the gnostic gospels, I am still undecided about one of them, being the apocolypse of peter, however all the other ones seem blatantly contradictory in nature and have various other issues.

Regardless, there is a core belief that all demonitions stuck/stick by being Christ dying for our sins, son of God, etc. Those additional gospels are not necessary to reach enlightenment, however upon reaching this state, it makes much more easier to discern truth from questionability.

..........
Why did I aim this thread towards Athiests?

To engage them in proof towards God, with the objective being that if a person tries the Bible and goes for the Gold of Enlightenment, they will know 100% that God exists. If you dismiss it all together, then you are just a specualtive outsider and do not know for sure.

would this thread be aimed at me

i'm not a theist
though i'm not an atheist
i'm simply a non-theist

also, why doesn't this thread talk about the multitude of gods that monotheists don't believe in?

atheists just take it one step further

Originally posted by dominicus
Why did I aim this thread towards Athiests?

To engage them in proof towards God, with the objective being that if a person tries the Bible and goes for the Gold of Enlightenment, they will know 100% that God exists. If you dismiss it all together, then you are just a specualtive outsider and do not know for sure.

Well maybe if there was a one world religion that everyone agreed on there wouldnt be any atheists but as it is you cant even agree on christianity, and as Madness says (and I think someones signature) Why is it you can dismiss all other gods and religions but dont like it when we atheists/nontheists dismiss yours as well - the difference is you believe in one more god than us. Think of the reasons that you dismiss other gods and then you might understand why we dismiss yours.



G

I'm sorry folks but I just dont buy into the religeous bunkum, as far as I'm concerned man does not need to fabricate a God to believe in, we dont need religeous leaders telling us that we will burn in hell if we dont follow their mind controlled obsessions. Are there enlightened minds, yes I'm sure there are, are they sons of God no they are not, God is a movie star, created by the ones who want to control us to manipulate our minds, to control and supress out natural feelings and views.

No mere mortal can be a great as God, well what is God, where is he, who is he, an alien, a figment of our desperate imagination because we dont want to be all alone in the universe. Well were not alone the universe its teemimg with life and its not life that some God created. Religion is for the weak and desperate humans who are like lost children who are afraid of the dark who need to be brought into the light. What do I believe, I can look up into space at night and wonder at it all, I try to imagine all those other lifeforms that are out there, The wonderfull living planet that we dwell upon, that to me is what is impotant not some desperate need to belong to a false God.

Magicmushroom,
The "God is created by the weak for the weak" argument is as old as time itself. If u seek you will indeed find that there is a God. I'll even go as far as saying that if you have indeed ingested what your user-name suggests, you would have known that God is a truth. Besides, where did all of this come from anyway? you can't get something out of nothing you know !!!!!! Please back-up your argument, I insist!!!

..............
Shiluhud,
You mentioned prayer in an earlier post with a link to a study showing that prayer doesn't work. There are also studies where it showed that when combined in groups of people, it did work, I'll post after these comments. The bottom line though is that God is not a prayer vending machine where we ask and automatically recieve. Can you imagine the madness if everyone was granted what-ever they wanted as soon as they asked?

There is a deeper mystical science to it. First of all you have to have been tangibly indwelled by the Holy Spirit, upon which you reach enlightenment. Then after this even, which could last anywhere from a few days to a few years, the tangible side of the Spirit dpearts from you. Your a then left with fragments of the originial enlightenment in a sort of spiritual desert if you will. You remain in the nothingness of transcendence and are left to perfect yourself internally, upon which after several years in the desert, the Spirit returns to remain in you tangibly for the remainder of your life. It is this last part of which you can pray and instantly recieve what you pray for. Of course upon reaching this state, you are well trained enough spiritually that you wouldn't ask for bags of money or to have power and fame. But it is at this point where various Christian Mystics/Monks were reported to have done miracles of various sorts similar in fashion to what Christ himself did.

Prayer is also stronger when there are larger numbers of people involved.

www.proofgodexists.org...

Just wanted to add another comment about God, which I have stated at least 2-3 times in this thread because it is the key to open the door to know that God exists and open up those realms. In all reality if you spend all your time studying/practicing an art form, within due time you will eventually become a master at your craft. In that same way, if you make that leap of faith, and begin thinking about God, praying, wondering, questioning, and spending the majority of your time seeking, God will reveal himself to you in the most profound of ways. It becomes a tangible relationship where you can feel the Love, communication, as well as know when you have displeased God because he will distance himself from you when you do wrong. It is a 2 way relationship and was the main reason why men of faith were to take a vow of celibacy, (which we all know now that it has been perverted and blasphemed). The closest and most approprite representation of a true Christian is the Monk/Mystic. It is this relationship with God that fulfills you in such a way that a relationship with a woman becomes boring, autonomous, stagnant, and unfulfilling to the highest sense of the word. If you seek arduously, you will find God.

That's why all athiests/agnostics are wandering outsiders because of the above statement. Unless you seek with all your heart, of course you will not find God anywhere and speculate that he does not exist ending your view with a fill in the blank excuse as to why he does not exist as in magicmushrooms example and a number of other examples my athiests friends have posted in this thread. If you never give it a genuine shot, then you just simply will not know until your physical death happens and you wake up to find that your body was just a shell and now your continuing on. To where? Who-knows and I will not specualte the heaven and hell thing at this point, but it is bittersweet for me(and can be for you) knowing that I am right cause I have tasted of whats to come once our bodies die. Knowing that even though you don't believe, one day you will see for yourselves that my words were correct.

Dominicus I think you would have to look at me as a pagan, God as we call him is a relatively new invention. Before that time people worshiped nature and life and the stars the things that were important to them. Modern religion replaced all that with an earthy figure, Jesus, God, the Devil, heaven and Hell.

I'm sure there must be something that connects us all in the great cosmos but does there have to be a God at the top of all this, does there need to be a God above all this, then no. It may well just be that its one big collective that all life is connected to it. Why does there have to be a God like figure, do we need such a figure I personally dont think so, that just my view on it. I was brought up in a strict catholic family, went to mass all the time, learnt latin etc, then I saw the light, I became aware and moved to the dark side as some would call it. I recall a time as a child, I like many wanted know everthing, during religeous study discussing the locations of hell and heaven, I said to the Teacher if hell is down below and the heavens are above then were is purgatory, well after getting a smack round the head for being cheeky the Teacher could not tell me where it was, thats when I started to question my religion I was 9 years old, and I've been questioning it ever since, I am now 51.

Magic,
Pagan it is then as my view for you is concerned. It is clearly seen by your words that your current outlook was a result of a bad "religious framework" experience with the catholic church. I also rejected the faith at first because of bad sunday school experiences as well, however just because we have both had bad experiences because of people that were false representatives of the truth, does not mean that the truth is not the truth.

From the very first human being, they were aware of God because according to the Bible, Adam and Eve, as well as the first people that were also created around them, were aware of God being the source that we and everthing else comes from. From the very beginning, man to one point or another was aware of God in key cultures. Does there have to be a God at the top that everything comes from??? No, of course there doesn't have to be, but then if there wasn't then nothing would exist.

This is why I ask you, where do you see all of existence comming from? You know there is an enlightened state of being that you can reach that will answer most of your questions. The beauty of us being on this earth is that we will never have every question answered until we shed our bodies and this makes me look forward to and embrace death. There are hidden mysteries in the Bible that become unocked the further you go into it. The Bible is also a scientifically certified infinite code that has information about the future. The statistics involved in the Bible alone outwiegh the odds of any possibility that you can dream of.

Honestly, again it comes down to, at first. taking the leap of faith, and giving God your all which will unlock enlightenment and give you additional faculties to know without a doubt that God exists. If you do not have instilled in you; transcendence, eternity, infinity, ego death. loss of fear, and additional sense faculties, then how can you comprehend God at deeper levels?

My friend, my argument against your perspective as well as all other agnostics/athiests/pagans, is that there are additional senses/tools that can be gained that will give you glimpses into the spiritual realms. With-out these senses/tools, you only see one aspect of reality, and yet you cannot see air, but because science tells us that it exists, you believe in air.

Unless you have the tools of the scientist to measure and prove the existence of air, you can only go on what they have told us. Belief in air is a leap of faith. Many mystics conclude that there is more to air than is scientiffically known which is also saying allot about having only one view of reality.

The paradox of it all is the leap of faith. It is this leap along wiht Giving God your all being that unlocks enlightenment and personal proof for you that God exists. Of course if you make the leap and give it all a shot and nothing happens, then you will have personal proof that God does not exist.

The secret is to Love God more than anybody you have ever loved and more than anything in existence. I'm sure you are or have been in Love in the past, being that you are 51. Well if you can remember a period in your life that you were so magically in Love that the significant other was all you could think of. Now replace that significant other with God, and this is what will unlock the tools necessary to know the truth that God exists. God is filled with apparent paradoxes, but that's because in our reality everything is deemed seperate, labeled, and thrown in a box. In the spiritual realms, paradoxes are a regular way of life and make perfect and complete sense.

At the end of the day, it is the leap of faith, giving God your all, and being in Love with this mysterious invisible God that will result in you being reward with the necessary tools and eyes to see God for yourself and to know the truth.

If you have not done this, then you are only speculating different possibilities on the outside of knowing that one truth.

Originally posted by dominicus
Shiluhud,
You mentioned prayer in an earlier post with a link to a study showing that prayer doesn't work. There are also studies where it showed that when combined in groups of people, it did work, I'll post after these comments. The bottom line though is that God is not a prayer vending machine where we ask and automatically recieve. Can you imagine the madness if everyone was granted what-ever they wanted as soon as they asked?

There is a deeper mystical science to it. First of all you have to have been tangibly indwelled by the Holy Spirit, upon which you reach enlightenment. Then after this even, which could last anywhere from a few days to a few years, the tangible side of the Spirit dpearts from you. Your a then left with fragments of the originial enlightenment in a sort of spiritual desert if you will. You remain in the nothingness of transcendence and are left to perfect yourself internally, upon which after several years in the desert, the Spirit returns to remain in you tangibly for the remainder of your life. It is this last part of which you can pray and instantly recieve what you pray for. Of course upon reaching this state, you are well trained enough spiritually that you wouldn't ask for bags of money or to have power and fame. But it is at this point where various Christian Mystics/Monks were reported to have done miracles of various sorts similar in fashion to what Christ himself did.

Prayer is also stronger when there are larger numbers of people involved.

www.proofgodexists.org...

While this maybe true (not saying that it is though), it still DOES NOT PROVE ANYTHING. Maybe the the people who were healed quicker had a better healing ability or the possibility that it was just the combined thought power that helped ( as I do believe the mind to have some power - buddhist monks have some cool abilities) so these people could be praying to Beelzebub and Mengi the wikid dwarf for all it matters as long as the 'healing energy' was expressed. How you can state that it is a gods doing is beyond me.

answer me THIS: (since you forgot to)
Why is it you can dismiss all other gods and religions but dont like it when we atheists/nontheists dismiss yours as well - the difference is you believe in one more god than us. Think of the reasons that you dismiss other gods and then you might understand why we dismiss yours.

Originally posted by dominicuswww.proofgodexists.org...

why isn't this in a peer-reviewed medical journal?

come on, anyone can put any bull on the internet, say it was scientific, provide no statistics to back it, and claim it to be real

let's use credible, UNBIASED (as in, not proofgodexists.org) sources

Madness,
Yeah that last link I provided was completey biased and in the rush to find something, I didn't really look over it that good. So, I will provied this link:

www.washingtonpost.com...

Which is a study that shows that prayer did not help at all in 700 cases of heart patients. So why did I post a link that seems to discredit the power of prayer? Well if you read that link, it says that, and I quote:

"While skeptics of prayer welcomed the results, other researchers questioned the findings, and proponents of prayer maintained that God's influence lies beyond the reach of scientific validation." -Washington Post

The issue here is that in every study, the opposing side always brings up faults in the study itself. Can a study such as this be done by proffesionals who are completely unbiased one way or the other??? Again, my apologies for posting the godexists link as it was a weak support, but I will again say that there is a secret to prayer. Many spiritual activations have to take place in order to be able to see the complete manifestations of what you ask for, though what you ask for doesn't always turn out the way you though it would, i.e. God works in mysterious ways. I think a study on the prayers of Christian Monks, would yield proof that prayer works, since the majority of older Monks have all the indwelling God activations to be able to manifest results directly. Then again how can we ever find completely unbiased people to perform studies, or bring the same number of proponants from both sides to do the study in tandem????

____
Shiluhud,
I dismiss other Gods because of dedactic, philosophical, and logical reasoning combined with subjective mystical experiences that there is only one God and that the Bible is truth. I have spent years treading other paths as well as the occult and never having a profound and enlightenment reaching experience as I did through the Bible. I will admit Buddhists and Zen masters have some characteristics of reaching Enlightenment, but what they describe is only a tenth of what happens when you get the Holy Spirit and reach the Enlightenment that the Bible professes. Can this one God be the same God that all monotheistic Religions acknowledge? Perhaps it can and it would make me very happy if it were so meaning that more people will enter the Heavens than fundamentalist Christians think. However, there still is 1 uncreated Creator of it all, and if you submit and acknowledge this in Humbleness, in due time you get a taste of being one with the Father, which is a feeling greater than anything else that can be experienced or known on this planet. Another point is that this Enlightenment bearing indwelling of the Hoky Spirit did not begin anywhere in history til the arrival of Christ, which is really saying something when it comes to authority.

Let me just state that when Christ was on Earth, he was a direct enemy of all the Organized Religions that were around him and were polluting views and lives of the people. In this sense Religion is a prison and yet there is an organized religion surrounding the one who battled against it. I think we can all see the paradox of that. Hence the reason again why the ways of the mystics/monks are so much more pure than any of these denominations. Better yet still, each of us lives our lives in an Organized almost Religious manner whether we acknowldge God or not. Wake up, work, eat, sleep, #, wake up, work, eat, sleep, #, weekend play, repeat cycle. Christ bashing Religion was also religiously done. But again, it leads me to state that there are hidden truths in Paradoxes. God is real and there are states of mind beyond logic and reason. For example the esoteric question, Can God create a rock that is so heavy even he can't lift it? There is an aswer to this, and yet it lays beyond logic and rational thinking.

Originally posted by dominicus
Can God create a rock that is so heavy even he can't lift it? There is an aswer to this, and yet it lays beyond logic and rational thinking.

I think you could approach this logically and rationally..

If God can do anything and do the impossible, then there's no limit to how heavy he could make a rock, and there's also no limit to how much he could lift.. Hence, there is no rock too heavy that he could not lift..

However, approaching the concept of God with logic and rationality isn't the best idea.. as the concept of God falls apart quicker than a poorly made sweater that gets caught and unravals itself on a rustic nail that was sticking out of a wall as you brushed passed in a hurry to reach the bathroom..



[edit on 28-10-2006 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by dominicus

Shiluhud,
I dismiss other Gods because of dedactic, philosophical, and logical reasoning
combined with subjective mystical experiences that there is only one God and that the Bible is truth. I have spent years treading other paths as well as the occult and never having a profound and enlightenment reaching experience as I did through the Bible.

SO because you have a profound enlightening through the bible then automatically its the truth? What part of the bible made it so profound - the OT or NT???

Can this one God be the same God that all monotheistic Religions acknowledge?

Possible but what if it isnt? What if that god is a minor god of a pantheon of gods that have been forgotten or dismissed?

God is real and there are states of mind beyond logic and reason. For example the esoteric question, Can God create a rock that is so heavy even he can't lift it? There is an aswer to this, and yet it lays beyond logic and rational thinking.

I know there are states of mind beyond logic and reason - been there, bought the T-shirt. What if this god is a manifestation of such a state of mind and not a genuine entity??? The answer to your esoteric question (based on the general consensus of what god is) is NO god cannot create a rock that is too heavy to lift as god isnt supposed to live within the physical realm and therefore not susceptible to the laws - also you cant get an infinite mass.



G

Originally posted by shaunybaby
why is this thread aimed at atheists though?

enlightenment has nothing to do with atheists or organized religion, it has everything to do with spirituality and the soul.

true words.

i guess it is dependant upon a souls opinion. but, then again who knows their own soul if they have an opinion that they can not truthfully define?

Shiluhud,
So Because I had enlightening experiences simply solidified that what I put my all being into was truth. If I followed the Bible and nothing ever happened as profound as what I and countless others have experienced, then I would have dismissed it because I have always been looking and searching for God in one way or another. Enlightenment of different calibers is one of the numerous rewards, or windows, that God blesses us with if we abide by the spiritual precepts of the Bible. For me personally, my belief that this is the way has to do with all the profound statistics of predictions made in the OT that were manifest by Christ in the NT. The New Testament has authority over the Old Testament in anumber of ways, and yet there are still lessons and morals to be learned from the Old Testament, such as the Mysticism contained in the Song of Songs and how it describes the Ascent of The Sould to God and Descent of God to the Soul all through having the Wisdom of the Old Testament. So either Book will lead a person into Enlightenment, but still the NT has authority and I argue will get some-one there much faster, not to mention it is the "Key" of both testaments because of the words and existence of Christ.

There may be a pantheon of Gods that are under neath the one and only Master God, but it is this Master God that is above all and every other God that I ride with. At the end of the day, does it matter if there are other Gods? If Christ taught to Love and pray to and acknowledge the one that is above all others and above everything that exists, isn't he referencing the God at the top of a so called pantheon????

Is God a manifestation of an Enlightened mind? No, because there have been several occasions where we have had historically documented Divine Intervention. Another point is that if Christ told us about Loving that Father above all that is in heaven, if that father was to just be a manifestation of our thoughts, then God would not trully exist, besides being a manifestation of a collective of thoughts, i.e. Christ would be a liar in this respect. The last point would be that if God is a manifestation of our thoughts, then how did existence and everything else get created? If there was a time when we did not exist, then it would have been impossible for God to be a manifestation of our thoughts let alone the manifestation of enlightened individuals.

But what if Christ was not a liar, yet it was still not God's creation? In other words, if you are puzzled, what if Christ was fictional? He could have been.

Originally posted by nephyx
Did the founders of each seperate religion ever think to themselves 'Hmm these religions will probably clash one day and start all sorts of wars'. If they didnt, they are idiots and I cant accept anything written in those books.

Then you know that all of the gospels were written long after Jesus died... by people who never knew jesus... who wrote inspirational narrative stories to heighten his glory, rather than explain his message?

Dominic - Did you know that the monks who chose the original gospels were ordered to do so by a Roman emperor, put in a locked and guarded room, and told that they'd be fed dinner whenever they were done?


Did y'all know that Jesus was a radical egalitarian, and tried very hard to keep people from open rebellion?


I'm not a Christian, but I've just recently learned all this from a guy (John Dominic Crossan) who's spent his whole life trying to understand the historical jesus.
I'd follow Jesus, and work towards enacting the Kingdom of God -- which is understood in it's original Hebrew to mean Justice...
I will never follow the church with its inherent patriarchal heirarchy.

[edit on 1-11-2006 by Diseria]