For all the Athiests.........

shaunybaby,
My point was that the majority of people are unhappy and always searching for things out-side of themselves to constantly fulfill this lack of happiness, i.e. contentment is dead for the most part. Yes there is contentment without God, but contentment with God is Enlightenemnt because it is a transcendent contentment beyond logic. All those this material things are temporary happiness contentments, and yes it does feel good to have a new car, clothes, girlfriend, but that's besides the point.

This Enlightenment is a permanent contentment that is transcendent. Imagine Divine Love and Happiness even if your having a bad day, i.e. bad days no longer exist for you !!!!!!! I haven't judged anybody in any of my posts, I am simply desribing the way it is with the vast majority of people in this world. Where's the proof of me judging others as opposed to stating the obvious perspective????

Yes unbelievers in God also do righteous acts as well and whats the problem with striving towards self-righteousness? That doesn't make me any better than you or anybody else. The difference is who's claiming enlightenment and who isn't. It's hard to to claim that I am one of the few Enlightened people of this world without demeaning others or being viewed as arrogant, self-righteous, stuck-up, etc. The bottom line is that a person cannot reach Enlightenment unless arrogance, pride, ego are demolished and conquered, which I have donw and claim so in humbleness and humility.

Sounds like I'm jealous about sleeping with Hot chicks??? Come on now think about what your saying. It would have been impossible for me to reach enlightenment without being able to conquer jeaousy. I don't have an ounce of it anywhere in my being. In my crew, we place bets over who can go the longest without any type of sexual emissions, i.e. my close associates are monks and celibates.

It is ridiculous to have enlightenment and close-mindedness in the same sentence like I just did, let alone in the same frame of mind. Enlightenment opens your mind beyond anything concievable when using logic and rational, and then your stuck trying to explain a state that is beyond logic and rational, using logic and rational. We have to use words when communicating and because of the pre-concieved perspectives of people based on the way they were rasied and their current state, you get polluted perspectives. The people the private messaged me know the truth when they see it !!!!!

If you are violent and would punch me, again I would forgive you and let all the witnesses that saw the event know exactly how you just allowed me to prove myself that I walk the walk in the real world of Enlightenment.

Ignorant_Ape,
Who said anything about going to Church or giving 10% of wealth to the church especially when it comes to reaching Enlightenment? You bringing this up as your first statement already leads me to several assumptions, but of course the best way to live is to presume the unpredictable and not assume the negative. A dead Jew on a stick maybe to you and your perspective, but to many your perspective is blasphemous and blind especially when it comes to backing up your perspective theologically, philosophically, archeaologically, rationally, and logically.

I never stated that my brand of deism is the only way. Mystics of many brands have had similar experieinces including Enlightenment.

Dying for any cause doesn't prove that the casue is correct. It is the context which I used it in, i.e. dying for something they said they saw with their own eyes beig the ressurected Christ. Iranian kids dying for the Muslim faith is a detestable idea when the muslim faith is found on being spread by the sword and the founder Mohammed questioning the voices in his head that were telling him to write down these prophecies. Sufism, Islamic Mystics, have a better when it comes to the idea of peace no matter what, never killign a soul, etc. An Iranian kid dying for revolution against a Government that is not helping it's people is another story and is closer to justafiable. however a kid can be "programmed" to think and act a certain way, it;s different when an adult does it.

Yes thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people have die for their mutual causes around the world, but let us pick apart those causes philosophically, dedactically and we will see that onyl a few had true merit.

Laugh at statistics all you want if your perspective is that they are funny. However we are not discussing comedy here and matheatical statistics are taken seriously with the utmost of importance in just about every field imaginable.

I'll send you some credable links to the 500 witnesses in my next few posts.
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SkyWay,
The term Born Again is misused and misunderstood. People use this to speak of being Baptised and becomming Christians, but that isn't even 1% of what has to take place to be able to use that label. The true meaning of "Born Again" is that upon reaching this Enlightenment through the Bible, you are indwelled by God and your whole Ego is dismantled and removed. Becasue of this dismantling, you have to learn how to function as a person without the use of your previous Ego and whithin the frame of this new Enlightenment. It is a very metaphysical/Tangible experience and is trully misrepresented in the same light that a lot of fake Christians give the Bible a bad name and perspective.
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MadnessisinmySoul,
The Bible doesn't have fallacies but only within the context of being able to tie in all that is said in that book into an interconnected weave of truths to get the MAcro-view of it. There are truths hidden behind truths and hidden deeper messages that blow the mind, so the book literally is an infinite source of truth that cycles into itself. Can you give an example of what you deem a fallacy in that book????

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Shihulud,
Enlightenment benefits include, transcendence, contentment, the activations of a deep divine Love beyond anything I've ever experienced, i.e. it is the only way I am able to Love my nieghbor as myself even if I don't know them, self-realization, God-realization, to a higher trascendant degree - understanding of infinity, eternity, and the trinity. Additional spiritual senses/faculties, extra audible/visual senses, awarness of goings on in spritual realms, complete annihilation of ego allwoing me to function unhindered by jealousy, envy, greed, hatred, anger, or any other negative aspects of self. Rapid manifestation of word/thought/prayer. Manipulations of random events to go a certain way. Embracing/looking forward to physical death, loss of fear. I can go on for days

Originally posted by dominicus
My point was that the majority of people are unhappy and always searching for things out-side of themselves to constantly fulfill this lack of happiness

You still make the assumption that without God we can never feel complete or totally happy, when in fact many people can. Since when are the majority of people unhappy?? That's quite a statement, I'm sure you've got some data/evidence to backup that the majority of people are unhappy..

Imagine Divine Love and Happiness even if your having a bad day, i.e. bad days no longer exist for you!!!!!!!

Bad days are what life is all about. It's not all sweet smelling roses. If you've never had a bad day, then you've never lived.

I haven't judged anybody in any of my posts, I am simply desribing the way it is with the vast majority of people in this world. Where's the proof of me judging others as opposed to stating the obvious perspective????

You judged them right there. By saying the majority of people are unhappy, and the reason is because they're trying to fill their life with material things, when if they opened up to God everything would be fine and dandy. You're making assumptions and judging people.

The bottom line is that a person cannot reach Enlightenment unless arrogance, pride, ego are demolished and conquered, which I have donw and claim so in humbleness and humility.

I find arrogance a good quality, not too much, but a little is good. Just like confidence is good, but over-confidence is not. There's nothing wrong with pride either, be proud of who you are, and what you do. Why would you want to demolish these things? It's all about be a well rounded human being, not supressing emotions and qualities such as pride and arrogance.

Sounds like I'm jealous about sleeping with Hot chicks??? Come on now think about what your saying. It would have been impossible for me to reach enlightenment without being able to conquer jeaousy.

Again, there is NOTHING wrong with jealousy. You make it sound like it's a bad thing, when it's just a natural occuring emotion. Everyone gets jealous, a little jealousy is fine, too much can be annoying though. As with most things in moderation are fine, it's only when it's too much of one thing that it can make it worse.

If you are violent and would punch me, again I would forgive you and let all the witnesses that saw the event know exactly how you just allowed me to prove myself that I walk the walk in the real world of Enlightenment.

I compliment you on your arrogance.

"Rapid manifestation of word/thought/prayer."

Do you mean by this that your prayers are immediately answered? Are you able to pray for a sick person to be healed and then they are healed immediately afterward? If you are able to do this it is indeed a rare and special gift, and enables you to do much good for others.

ShaunyBaby,
Yes there are people that are happy without God and who-ever came up with the phrase ignorance is bliss, was a genius!!! Yes bda days exist as does duality in all curcumstances, however upon reaching an enlightened state, there is no distinction between a goo day and bad day, just an eternal infinite day with many changes.

There is a difference between judging people and stating an observance or perspective from the analysis of the majority of society in this country, which also universally occurs more or less in other countries depending on the politics, philosophies, and beliefs of that country.

A fine balance of confidence is good, as is pride in the things of God, but my point was to try to have you imagine a state where none of these faculties come to the fore-front when a situation or thought occurs, allowing you to pick and choose how you would like to react. It's an inner nothingness that encompasses everything, i.e. in an instant you scan the multitude of reactions to any particular situation, and can choose the best one or none at all willingly. I don't see anything positive about jalousy besides it being used to motivate the individual to do something about their situation, but then again, look at the motivating factor!!!!

Your complimenting me on arrogance which I do not have. Truth is, I would give you all my material posessions and money of you were trully indeed, let alone pray for you if you were sick, advise you in life, and be there as a friend.

My only arrogance is in the fact that God blessed me with the ability to errase all arrogance from my being years ago!!!!!!!!
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Skyway,
Yes, I do humbly acknowledge the ability to heal others through prayer, however there are sicknesses and diseases that certain people are required to go through and prayer won't fix it. The more people invloved in a prayer circle, the stronger and faster the outcome, but again there is a divine will at play, hence the reason that it looks as if not everything can be manipulated to the outcome that we would wish, which then in hinsight of the occurence, many times it ended up working out better than anyone thought it would.

I'm quite an arrogant person, I'm also extremely sarcastic, so those two mixed sometimes makes me out to be not a very nice person. However, I'm able to admit what I am, you seem to have trouble admitting you're arrogant, because you really are, and you really sound like it in your posts.

All have faults and all have sinned, however I would be a fool to continue an argument with you over your faulted perspective of me being arrogant, which by default would prove that I am arrogant, which in itself is a lie. I accept this to be your perspective and accept you as you are as long as you accept that Enlightenment can only be reached in Humbleness !!!!!!

you're not humble at all.

You came on here with your self-riteous, I'm better than everyone else, attitude. You then proceed to tell us all how unhappy we are, and how we're constantly trying to fill our lives with materialism. And telling us that all of this would be null and void if only we accepted God in our lives. This is just the icing on the cake of what you came here and preached, there's a whole lot more detail I could go through but I think the main point is there.

You sir, are in no way enlightened, nor are you humble in any way shape or form.

And if you don't want an arguement/discussion, I suggest you don't come on here with your opinions about how everyone without God is unhappy, and your self-riteous-blowing-your-own-horn attitude.

Originally posted by dominicus
ShaunyBaby,
Skyway,
Yes, I do humbly acknowledge the ability to heal others through prayer, however there are sicknesses and diseases that certain people are required to go through and prayer won't fix it. The more people invloved in a prayer circle, the stronger and faster the outcome, but again there is a divine will at play, hence the reason that it looks as if not everything can be manipulated to the outcome that we would wish, which then in hinsight of the occurence, many times it ended up working out better than anyone thought it would.

There is a fellow ATSer who has cancer. Would you please add your prayers to those of ours who are praying for the full and speedy healing of William One Sac? As you said above..."The more people involved in a prayer circle, the stronger and faster the outcome..." Definitely a deed worth doing.

Originally posted by SkyWay

Originally posted by dominicus
ShaunyBaby,
Skyway,
Yes, I do humbly acknowledge the ability to heal others through prayer, however there are sicknesses and diseases that certain people are required to go through and prayer won't fix it. The more people invloved in a prayer circle, the stronger and faster the outcome, but again there is a divine will at play, hence the reason that it looks as if not everything can be manipulated to the outcome that we would wish, which then in hinsight of the occurence, many times it ended up working out better than anyone thought it would.

There is a fellow ATSer who has cancer. Would you please add your prayers to those of ours who are praying for the full and speedy healing of William One Sac? As you said above..."The more people involved in a prayer circle, the stronger and faster the outcome..." Definitely a deed worth doing.

Just out of curiosity. Why do you pray?
When your god is supposed to be omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent, why the need to pray? Your god should KNOW what you want and have the power and the benevolence to give you what you need so there should be no need to ask.

Just seems silly to pray to an allknowing deity??????


G

Originally posted by shihulud
Just out of curiosity. Why do you pray?
When your god is supposed to be omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent, why the need to pray? Your god should KNOW what you want and have the power and the benevolence to give you what you need so there should be no need to ask.

Just seems silly to pray to an allknowing deity??????
G

One of the reasons I pray is because some people have prayed and received what they prayed for, such as healings.....rescue from dangerous situations....solutions to problems...etc.

Another reason that I pray is because the bestowal of some blessings come through a human and Divine interaction that is established through prayer.

God bestows many blessings upon us without our needing to ask, but some blessings we are required to pray for. Why? Why does God make it necessary for us to do anything for ourselves? Why do we need to eat? Why doesn't God feed us instead of making it necessary for us to feed ourselves? Why doesn't God just do everything for us? I think it's because God puts a part of the course that our lives take into our own hands...otherwise life would just happen to us, with no self-determination involved at all.

But there are probably other reasons which only God knows....reasons related to our spiritual growth and exercise of our faith.

Shauny,
A person cannot say that some-one is not humble and arrogant just by the use of words. Unless you personally know that person, everything you have to say about them are assumptions, and as a matter a fact most people that have PM'ed me never found an ounce of arrogance or un-humbleness anywhere,

I didn't say that you were persoanlly unhappy for not having God when I don't know you , your beliefs, or your relationship with God, if you have one. What I have stated is an observance of the majority of people in this world. Majority does not equal everybody, but I see you cannot find any peace in any of my words and that is too bad because I have again humbly dropped gems.

The only way I have blown my own horn is in the Glorification of God who I have come know and by whom I have recieved a genuine Enlightenment. Eveything I have said has glorified God through the Biblical way, which in this situation either you are lying about my state or I am lying about my state. They cannot both be true, and since you do not personally know me and you fail to read between the lines of all of my posts in this thread, I think people can come to their own conclusions about your comments.

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SkyWay,
Can you give me the fellow ATS'ers screen name?
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Shihulud,
Just because God knows what we need, what we're going to do, ask, say, doesn't mean that we shouldn't act. The act of prayer itself is a solidifying ritual and statement to God that we acknowledge God's presence and we spend the time and effort to have our Moments with God. The Zen characterstic of God is just that, one of an infitie number of Characteristics and prayer is an interactive action. One of the secrets to Enlightenment is deep contemplative prayer where you quiet the mind and let go of all your thoughts and in a way slip out of concsiousness to where you are not even aware of your own Body. There in that state is a place where mystical things happen both internally and externally around you that you will notice and others will as well. But this takes time, patience, studying of scripture, acknowldging God, changing one's ways, and reprogramming form the old self to a new Son of God self.

dominicus,
His screen name is William One Sac. He is hospitalized with cancer and is undergoing chemotherapy. But the healing power of God is much greater than chemotherapy and surgery, and can heal after other methods have failed. So it would be much appreciated if you would appeal to God to bestow His healing grace on William One Sac. Thanks! And may God bless you.

You know what I don't get? God seems really insecure. Do they make shrinks for gods? He wants us to worship him? Thats really self indulgent and not healthy for any sentient creature. Parents in their right mind don't expect their kids to worship them.

Maybe the god of earth is really a rogue Q like entity, similar to the one from star trek that gets jollies out of being immature, and making his pets really uncomfortable, unless they roll over and deningrate themselves in the process.

I just don't understand the whole idolize and worship me thing. You're a god who created something. Great what do you want a medal? Forget it! Thats what your supposed to do, you're a god.

I wonder if other gods like to be so petty and insecure, next god will be asking I he looks fat in his toga.

You are correct. It is silly for any omnicitent creature to require someone address a concern directly to them. They would already know, as for the creature not acting on that already known issue, thats just cruel and nasty. "Please god don't let this plane hit the ground and kill me." "Sorry but just like in Jepordy you forgot to ask me the question in the proper format." Sorry 'bout that I'm just kinda scared with the wind rushing around the breached cabin and the whole free falling thing."
"I don't care you forgot to ask me in the right format,DIE!-Oh and I forgot to tell you, that time you masturbated in the 8th grade. You're going to hell for that one. I hate freaks like you." "thanks God." "You're welcome." "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"...SPLAT!

Just don't get it. Besides Gods in everybit of us right, so he should already know and correct the problem. Unless god is self destructive and doesn't even care about himself, which we would technicaly have to be.

Bassplyr,
Does God seem insecure to you because of the perspective you have chosen to have of God? You know one of the greatest realizations is that God is experiencing God's self through everything that exitsts. Yes God is in everything but not everything is God, which means for every so called negative experieince that every person has ever experieinced, it was, is, and will also be experienced by God, since God is not seprate from experience.

To worship God is to embrace and Love God in a similar fashion as in a way a man worships his wife when he is in love with her and vice versa. It seems like such a diffuclt way to put into context the word worship, which implies submitting yourself to another, and yet if that other Loves you with everything they have, the submitting is done willingly.

If God is so self indulgent, why did he create us so that he can both Love us and we can Love him back to share in something so amazing? Are you telling me that you would have rather not existed or ever been created to witness and take part in all of creation and existence? We are taking part in something that is beyond genius and if we all would take more moments to appreciate it all, it would lead many to realize how amazing it is that we even exist. I'm still baffled when I look at the randomness of the branches of trees.

Parents don't expect their kids to worship them, however kids genuinely love their parents and look up to them. Then something happenas the child grows up and becomes brain washed and polluted by society, media, peers, and parents as well. Hence the Bible says we are to be like Children, i.e. the stage that kids go through when they ask why for everything. If we can continue asking why for everything, we can get down to the smallest denominaters of life and existence.

God did create all this and does deserve a medal for it !!!!! Everything that exists is beyond genius and impeccable. This world is polluted or seems to be because of free-will and duality. It's not so much duality becasue if we can understand the nature of duality we can embrace the bad just as much as we embrace the good. Now free-will is whole other monster.

I would like to ask you, if you were God, how would you ave done things differently then?

Since God has free will and we are made in his image we have it too and as a result both good and bad polarities are chosen. Then again there is no way for us to comprehend what is good without knowing and comprehending what is bad. The whole plane out of the sky fallin and now I'm going to hell cause I masterbated in 8th grade argument brings up alot of points that can be discussed.

For example, after 10-20 days of no sexual emissions, the actual emission will expel itself through urination or at night while sleeping. We as men were created with a sexual urge but the issue is whether the urge is a master of it or re we a master of the urge, anger, emotions, vices, addictions. Are you the master of yourself the way that God is master of his self????

Dying in an airplane after praying for the safety of that plane shows that ultimately you are not exactly in control. There is a divine will in all of the randomness, and whose to say that randomness isn't itself the divine will? But from my experieince and allot of other people', it can be manipulated to a degree. Besides dying in an airplane seems like such a cruel and devastating end, and yet death is just the beginning of an eternal journey.

My friend, simply try tp put youself in the shoes of everybody else's perspective and everybody else's shoes. I understand your perspective completely because I to also felt and viewed things that way once. No disrespect in anyway but that perspective is so dim and unfulfilling and it broke down for me when I questioned why it is that way and came to a conclusion that there is no way God be those things. It is just so much deeper and filled with sooooo much love. There really is an all encompasing divine love.

Skyway,
You have a PM

Originally posted by shaunybabyI'm quite an arrogant person, I'm also extremely sarcastic, so those two mixed sometimes makes me out to be not a very nice person. However, I'm able to admit what I am, you seem to have trouble admitting you're arrogant, because you really are, and you really sound like it in your posts.

you're not humble at all.

You came on here with your self-riteous, I'm better than everyone else, attitude. You then proceed to tell us all how unhappy we are, and how we're constantly trying to fill our lives with materialism. And telling us that all of this would be null and void if only we accepted God in our lives. This is just the icing on the cake of what you came here and preached, there's a whole lot more detail I could go through but I think the main point is there.

You sir, are in no way enlightened, nor are you humble in any way shape or form.

And if you don't want an arguement/discussion, I suggest you don't come on here with your opinions about how everyone without God is unhappy, and your self-riteous-blowing-your-own-horn attitude.

Good stuff shauny, I admire when people are conscious of their own shortcomings. It tells me that they are able to change if they decide they want to do so. I am not convinced that you are arrogant as you say. It may be that you are very firm in your beliefs, and confident about your conclusions. It is not arrogant to stand for something, if you don't you could fall for anything. Yet when I read the way you word your views in your posts, you come across as quite modest in my view.

Skyway, Dominicus - You can pray as much as you want as there is no evidence (scientific anyway, I know you religious types have your own bizzare notions of evidence) that praying does any good whatsoever.
The reason you pray is to feel good about yourself, to make you feel empowered that you think you can help by praying. You invent reasons to pray, thinking that your all powerful god actually gives a # and will help you because you asked.
No offence to William one sac but I think he would rather have his chemo than rely of folks like yourselves to heal him with your minds.



G

Originally posted by dominicus
Skyway,
You have a PM

Something must have malfunctioned because I didn't receive your PM. Could you resend it please.