John Lear's Moon Pictures on ATS

Originally posted by undo
scientists are always right

What the hell is the matter with you people?

Isn't it the least bit ironic that scientists created the computers that allows you to voice your complaints about scientists to the world?

Scientists may not be always right but they're one of the few I see who are trying to make this world a better place for all of us. Well OK I suppose Angelina Jolie is doing her part too.

Hell without science half of us would be dead right now. Didn't your parents teach you not to bite the hand that feeds you?

Originally posted by jmlima
Out of curiosity , why do you think a "Space Aggressor Squadron's" could be used for? To fight aliens? Maybe so.

LOL I admit my "tone" was one of surprise... just to get attention

Personally I think its all part of getting ready for the control and exploitation of space.

[the mission statement of the space command right at the top of their home page news release]

What surprises me is the scale and scope of IN PLACE operations... and for how long they have been "prepared"

The general "feel" for what I am seeing is that NASA, Space Command and the other parties have a goal to secure and exploit near space, the moon and Mars in a large scale effort and the project is well underway...

The Moon Mine theory only is a question of WHEN this all started

But make no mistake about it MANY counties governments are involved, judging by the documents... and that would mean that yes... the secret could very easily be kept.

So far I have shown Canada as part of it with the excavator... I have Japan and China participating in these files... and here is Hungary...

FEASIBILITY CONCEPT OF CREATING PROTECTED SPACES WITH GREAT SIZE AND BALANCED INTERIOR TEMPERATURE FOR INDUSTRIAL ACTIVITIES ON THE MOON
B. Boldoghy1, J. Kummert1, I. Szilágyi2, T. Varga2, Sz. Bérczi3, 1 Ferroelektric Engineering Pan Konceptum Ltd., H-
1116 Budapest, Vasvirág sor 72., Hungary,

Main steps of our proposal:
- Producing of building “brick” elements from Lunar regolith by pressing, using adhesives, melting etc.
- Creating of load bearing structures, primarily arches inside Lunar surface formations (valley, ditch, crater) of suitable size
- Covering of this load bearing structure from above in a proper thickness (10-15 m or more) by Lunar regolith for insulating purposes,
- So a thermally protected and insulated interior space of great size is created, with an interior temperature free from fluctuations of exterior irradiation and due to
the inner heath flow the interior temperature is balanced, respectively fluctuates to a small extent around an average temperature of abt. –20C.
- The interior space of great size formed this way is suitable to house industrial technology and/or dwelling modules and it is protected from external cosmic radiation
and meteorite impacts as well.

Originally posted by Saviour Of The Real
Scientists may not be always right but they're one of the few I see who are trying to make this world a better place for all of us.

Most major scientific breakthroughs have been made by "crackpot" scientists or zealous lab assistants without an agenda.

Most major discoveries made by such people have been ridiculed by their piers, and it took a long time for those ideas to be accepted in mainstream science...

Many more were accidents found in the process of looking for something else...

Most mainstream Scientists are the hardest people to shake of old ideas... any new theory that messes with their theory threatens their funding so is rejected outright...

But your right a FEW are trying to better humanity... many of those have been discredited, ruined and even KILLED for their revolutionary research!

[I am sure others here could provide a list, but thats off topic in here]

Originally posted by zorgon...
All this documentation is NOT from UFO or fringe websites... its from corporation and government offices and all of it has names and contact phone numbers... calls to these numbers get responses like" whats your security level..." not "I don't know what your talking about..." ...

Well 'corporation' websites are not all that reliable, in fact that's the thing with websites these days, takes this example, this Irish corporation defends that they found 'free energy' source. And if you look through the website it seems their claims are well backed up also...

www.steorn.net

Interesting bit about the moon minerals...

ZORGON :

no offence , but you are in grave danger of contradicting yourself and other " moon mine proponents "

just step back and look at what claims you and other have made regards " lunar mines " , who is operating them - and the timeframe of those alledged operation .

then re read what the " land of ledgend " site claims about the clementine probe [ circa 1994 ]

to paraphrase - you and others are claiming that there are mines on the moon , and that image data from the 1960s shows this , but with classic circular logic you now claim that a 1994 probe lauched by the same people you accuse of operating mines on the moon already whic [ the probe ] was launched to survey the moon for mineral assay [ among other things ] is confirmation that your claimed mines exist .

if there are operating mines on the moon - visbile in 1960s imagery - which are operated by humans - serviced from " secret antarctic bases " why did the we need to survey the moon with a robot probe mission in the 90s ?

to discover the presence of ............. minerals on the moon ?

doh so what are the mines doing again ?

heck it is late - that will have to do

Originally posted by Saviour Of The Real

What the hell is the matter with you people?

Isn't it the least bit ironic that scientists created the computers that allows you to voice your complaints about scientists to the world?

Scientists may not be always right but they're one of the few I see who are trying to make this world a better place for all of us. Well OK I suppose Angelina Jolie is doing her part too.

Hell without science half of us would be dead right now. Didn't your parents teach you not to bite the hand that feeds you?

Sounds... I dunno, sorta like a god complex or something. Science is great but isn't always right, which is the untenable position you would have to take in order to lambaste those who discuss and research things that science either won't or doesn't, or pretends not to. Most scientists know they aren't the final answer to everything, in fact, many know they don't have the final answer to everything. So whatcha doing, in this thread, pretending like you have the final answer to things? Empirical process and all, seems you haven't done much research of your own yet.

Have to agree.. I find that science, scientists and academics are in fact holding us back now instead of advancing humanity for its own good. Those groups of people are out for themselves are are more interested in their own careers, massaging their egos and always being correct.

Today it is group think on a mass scale with unquestioning authority as the mantra this stiffles creativity, inspiration and genius.

Many times tangling with these types you encounter the same wall: but we already know all about that!

No you don't. Human science is still primitive as we do not fully understand anything of any complexity yet.

Originally posted by zorgon
...
The general "feel" for what I am seeing is that NASA, Space Command and the other parties have a goal to secure and exploit near space, the moon and Mars in a large scale effort and the project is well underway...
...

That's a concept that I'm sure if you ask them I don't see why would they deny it, it makes sense to be an objective to aim for. I do not see what does that objective as to seem something so out of the ordinary.

Re the scale and effort of the project, well that pretty much open to interpretation as you very well know, but military projects always are well ahead from the expected,so...

Originally posted by undo
This, I agree with you on. At this point, there's the question of motive.

LOL The fact that NASA is claiming "no atmosphere" is false disinformation spread by Ignorant Ape and others... its called selective quoting

We already covered that in this thread... the only contention is HOW MUCH atmosphere are we talking about... and the only claim we make about NASA lying is that it just might be enough to be useful. No claim was ever made that it was JUST LIKE EARTH

Here is the OFFICIAL NASA FACT SHEET on the atmosphere and its composition...

Here is the collection of previous info on the Lunar atmosphere as I have had time to collect [there is more]

LUNAR ATMOSPHERE

So we can put this to rest...

THE MOON HAS AN ATMOSPHERE

All that remains is to prove how much...


To all:

It would really be appreciated if some effort was spent reading back in this thread. I understand it is hard to find things and read it all, but it would save time having to re cover old info...

That being said I will gladly review it anytime for a serious question from someone new or interested... or at least point to the collection on the website...

the laughing hyenas however are on their own..


Oh and here is a photo showing an interesting effect as the sun goes behind the moon... any guesses as to what causes this?




[edit on 24-11-2006 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon
...
Here is the OFFICIAL NASA FACT SHEET on the atmosphere and its composition...
...

Far from being a specialist, but if I compare, in proportion, the mass of atmosphere in Moon and let's say Mars, it's reasonably clear that the difference is immense, you barely have an atmosphere in the Moon... it's there all right, but the values seems to be very,very low...

Originally posted by undo
Sounds... I dunno, sorta like a god complex or something.

If you want see a god complex go see a (medical) doctor.

Science is great but isn't always right, which is the untenable position you would have to take in order to lambaste those who discuss and research things that science either won't or doesn't, or pretends not to.

That's all fine and dandy, I have nothing against thinking outside of the box, in fact that's how great discoveries are made, but give me tangible results, not idle unverifiable speculation. This thread is a perfect example of that.

Most scientists know they aren't the final answer to everything, in fact, many know they don't have the final answer to everything.

Nobody has all the answers. Lunatics like to think they do.

So whatcha doing, in this thread, pretending like you have the final answer to things? Empirical process and all, seems you haven't done much research of your own yet.

I'm curious, what things do you think I am pretending to have the final answer on? If it's about the presence of a mining operation on the moon then I'm confident I have my final answer (utter and complete BS) having done my own research using additional evidence and sources NOT presented in this thread.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
ZORGON :
no offence , but you are in grave danger of contradicting yourself and other " moon mine proponents "

Oh not at all my friend...

You see the "mineral mapping" was simply a by product of the mission... I use that data as it is publically available info to answer questions of WHAT they COULD be mining.

The fact that there is a new public push on to mine the moon and Mars can also show something else...

IF they were mining there for whatever reason for 40 years or so... what better way to cover that up by rushing up there with a new project, implementing it and then they say "yup we have a mine on the moon and are working to putting one on Mars...

There is no way we can just hop in the car, take a poloroid and say "Hey wait jest a cotten pickin minute... that looks like it been there for decades!"

And once it is established, public memory being what it is will soon forget... they always do... except the stories like Roswell that manage to stick around for over 40 years...

So if we are right, expect announcements between now and 2010...


One important point though...

Us " moon mine proponents" say we THINK there is something going on and are lookingh hard for evidence

Those of you that are "anti moon mine proponents" claim to know 100% for sure there is nothing going on there...

A wild claim like THAT really demands proof... where is your research and documentation?

:shk:

Originally posted by jmlima
this Irish corporation defends that they found 'free energy' source.

LOL I have seen them... but you seriously are comparing them to comapnies like

sysRand, Raytheon and Lockheed Martin? All holders of top secret government contracts? Surely you jest...

or are grabbing at straws...

Originally posted by zorgon
Most major scientific breakthroughs have been made by "crackpot" scientists or zealous lab assistants without an agenda.

Most? Got any evidence to back up that theory?

Most major discoveries made by such people have been ridiculed by their piers, and it took a long time for those ideas to be accepted in mainstream science...

Give me a few examples. (I know there are some but I'm just curious which ones you're thinking of)

Many more were accidents found in the process of looking for something else...

Very true.

Most mainstream Scientists are the hardest people to shake of old ideas... any new theory that messes with their theory threatens their funding so is rejected outright...

I’m curious, so how many "mainstream" scientists do you know personally?

But your right a FEW are trying to better humanity... many of those have been discredited, ruined and even KILLED for their revolutionary research!

Like who?

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
ZORGON :

no offence , but you are in grave danger of contradicting yourself and other " moon mine proponents "

It might seem so but actually he's not. As a matter of fact that is why we are calling many of these companies. We are trying to find out why all of this preparation is being made and why they are considering using rocket propulsion when we are obviously already there, and obviously, if rocket propulsion is being used, it being very well hidden.

On my first call to the Canadian company, the gentlemen started asking ME a bunch of questions. I said allow me to cut to the chase. We are looking at pictures taken in 1966 by Lunar Orbiter which shows a large mining operation in the Crater Copernicus with buildings, excavators, ramps, arches along with smoke, vapor and dust. Since you are building and testing a bucket wheel excavator for extraterretrial use we were wondering if you knew about this moon operation. His answer was 'yes'. I then asked then why were they building and testing a bucket wheel excavator if one was already on the moon. He answered that they had a number of government contracts for all kinds of things. The bucket wheel excavator was just a small contract and that they were no longer working on it. I asked how big the excavator was. He answered "14 inches high".

Go figure.

An insider I talked to in 1990 told me that he worked on a piece of mining equipment for the moon that was 30 stories tall. He told me that toward the end of the contract he rented an airplane and flew around it just to get an idea of its enormous size.

So by accident Zorgon stumbled onto all of this mining information and it appears that a massive, well organized effort is under way to prepare to mine on the moon and mars.

We are considering that the possibility exists that they have decided to make the operation public. And rather than just say "We lied and Mercury, Gemini and Apollo were just window dressing", they are ramping up for public disclosure that will dovetail into whats already there in such a why that nobody will suspect we have been there for 45 years.

zorgon

Just a little request:

Could you please put the source of the texts you post tagged as "external"?

Its easy to do a Google search using the text, but it would be easier, and in some cases it would show which of the various sources you had used.

Keep investigating.


PS: I do not see anything in those pictures, and I do not believe that there is any mining going on in the Moon.

Originally posted by zorgon
One important point though...

Us " moon mine proponents" say we THINK there is something going on and are lookingh hard for evidence

Those of you that are "anti moon mine proponents" claim to know 100% for sure there is nothing going on there...

A wild claim like THAT really demands proof... where is your research and documentation?

Actually it's the other way around. Nice try though. You're the ones making the extraordinary claims without proof. Fuzzy pictures subject to interpretation does not constitute proof. Nor is it even evidence.

The evidence to the contrary (in fact that very evidence you're using) is freely available from NASA and others and well documented in an overwhelming majority of research papers.

Originally posted by johnlear
An insider I talked to in 1990 told me that he worked on a piece of mining equipment for the moon that was 30 stories tall. He told me that toward the end of the contract he rented an airplane and flew around it just to get an idea of its enormous size.

And you believed him?

We are considering that the possibility exists that they have decided to make the operation public. And rather than just say "We lied and Mercury, Gemini and Apollo were just window dressing", they are ramping up for public disclosure that will dovetail into whats already there in such a why that nobody will suspect we have been there for 45 years.

Those bastards can't fool you and your self-fulfilling prophecies!

Originally posted by Saviour Of The Real

Originally posted by zorgon
Us " moon mine proponents" say we THINK there is something going on and are looking hard for evidence

Actually it's the other way around. Nice try though. You're the ones making the extraordinary claims without proof.

Actually, this thread is about speculation on Lunar pictures and no-one is claiming they know the full truth. If members wish to participate in such endeavors, that is their prerequisite. If, however, anyone can prove that such searching is in vain, producing the incontravertable evidence would certainly be beneficial.

Originally posted by masqua
Actually, this thread is about speculation on Lunar pictures and no-one is claiming they know the full truth. If members wish to participate in such endeavors, that is their prerequisite. If, however, anyone can prove that such searching is in vain, producing the incontravertable evidence would certainly be beneficial.

If I were to speculate that the Moon is a figment of our imaginations could you produce incontrovertible evidence that I was wrong?