What is the soul/awareness?

Originally posted by Purgatory


Reincarnation- I wouldn't be so sure about that.

As for your Animal comment, you are completely incorrect. Animals are VERY self-aware, and do possess souls/spirits if you will. It's quite arrogant of you to think otherwise.

[edit on 2-8-2006 by Purgatory]

I have to disagree on the animals comment.

I don't think animals are "self aware" of their actual exsistence. They act & react instinctively, not by a thought process of planned action.

As far as actual "souls" go, I don't think they have a soul in the same sense you & I have. God created animals to serve man, & also as a food source.
If they had a soul, it wouldn't make much sense to kill them for food. (know what I mean?)

Animals are not capable of thinking about the consequences of their actions.
They can be "trained" to behave, or react in a certain way, such as "Conditioned Response" as Pavlov pointed out. But there's a difference between being alive & trainable, & being an actual sentient, self-aware being.

IMO:

The Soul is a place/container.... The Ego goes in that container/place.... and the Spirit is the fuel, or driving force for everything.. it sustains, promotes, runs everything.

The Ego to me is who we are as individuals... and just like our physical bodies our Ego bodies can wear "clothing" per-se... like anger, as a ripped garment, or jealousy, or concepts and good things as well... but stripped naked the ego is itself, unchangable, like our physical bodies... only by forced 'butchery'(plastic surgery) can it be changed.... and its changes are permanent... same goes for the EGO, when you do plastic surgery on it.. [plastic surgery for the ego IMO is drugs]

dnero, I really get what you're saying.
It makes sense to me. The Ego, being the conscience, or awareness, IS what makes a person "who" they are; Based on their own life experiences.
It's all individual to each person.

Great viewpoint!

I honestly don't know what exactly to expect in the afterlife, as far as what I'll remember from being alive. But whatever it is that God has set up is fine with me. It'll be interesting to see what that actually is!

Will we remember EVERYTHING from our lives? Or will we remember the overall exsistence as a "big picture" with the sins removed from our memory?

We'll know someday..........

Originally posted by marko1970

As far as actual "souls" go, I don't think they have a soul in the same sense you & I have. God created animals to serve man, & also as a food source.
If they had a soul, it wouldn't make much sense to kill them for food. (know what I mean?)

Animals are not capable of thinking about the consequences of their actions.
They can be "trained" to behave, or react in a certain way, such as "Conditioned Response" as Pavlov pointed out. But there's a difference between being alive & trainable, & being an actual sentient, self-aware being.

I disagree with the fact that animals don't have souls. Look at elephants for example. They'll mourn over a member of their family years after that member had died. They feel sadness when they cross the bones of family. Emotions make a being alive, and I believe that emotions exist because the soul resides in the body.

I think our souls are pure in it's exsistance which is why it is internal. Something which is contained in our shell. I think this is what keeps us human.
Science as has been mentioned in previous posts is man's interpretation. While science definately has it's phenomenons and truths it's still what man (people) interpret it to be.
We can clone a human or a sheep but we cannot clone a soul.
Some are willing to put their faith into science because it's tangible but I think what cannot be explored or seen is what holds us together and completes us as human.

Thanks for those great well done posts!

I actually meant 'awareness" instead of soul, but yes, we know that animals have awwareness, and scientists have already found out that animals are not self aware, humans are. This makes a bit of difference.

Do you mean, that afterlife exists? I mean, if we do good things in our life, it will come back to us after life? Well, I don't believe in heaven orr hell, but I do believe, that aliens have something to do with the controlling, storing and managing human awarenesses.

This would mean, that EG: Greys create a soul , it comes to existance in a human body, the entire human life is a test program, after death (of course only if qualified), it becomes the soul of a nnewborn little Grey .

PS: What is "Genuine awareness"??
What is "Soul Robbing" and what is it for??

THX

[edit on 3-8-2006 by Thymus]

I don't think people will ever agree on what genuine awareness actually is. I believe it varies from person to person. For example, an awareness for empaths can be the emotions they pick up from people; awareness to a medium would be to be able to sense spirits; awareness could even possibly be the ability to sense the life force of the world. For me personally, it's a bit of everything. A little bit of life, a little of emotion, a tad of thunderstorms, and general balance.
Awareness is one of the things that should be left to open interpretation.

Originally posted by ShadowedRedemption
I don't think people will ever agree on what genuine awareness actually is. I believe it varies from person to person.

For example, an awareness for empaths can be the emotions they pick up from people; awareness to a medium would be to be able to sense spirits;

Could you please define genuine awareness from your point of view? Should it be the one inserted into a non-living thing, like a rock?

Answered to your U2U, mine is the type you posted above. So I see other people's awareness with mine not with my brain?

Thank you marko1970,
That was so nice of you to say. It feels good to know that my ramblings are understood

Originally posted by Thymus
So I see other people's awareness with mine not with my brain?

That definetly could be a possibility.
Geniune awareness for me is ever shifting. Some days it is so powerful I must sit down or be swept away, other days I have nothing. From a rock I recieve an impression of the planet's life force, and sometimes I feel as if the planet is aware of me. I am aware of deep feelings as well; a boy died at my school and the sadness made the air seem like honey to breathe and surrounded me like cusion I could lay back on. I can be aware of a great energy (energy and life force are very similar to me) surging everywhere, and seems to fill the world with life--the energy comes from that great force of a thunderstorm. Sometimes there is a focal point of a great mass of energy, as if from a being, that I can tell how close the thing is. Through my experience, I find that awareness for me is a rollarcoaster, for someone else it may be greatly different. It's up to us as individuals to figure out how awareness has formed around our souls.

Originally posted by Purgatory
Reincarnation- I wouldn't be so sure about that.

As for your Animal comment, you are completely incorrect. Animals are VERY self-aware, and do possess souls/spirits if you will. It's quite arrogant of you to think otherwise.
[edit on 2-8-2006 by Purgatory]

I agree that animals are very self-aware. The have sensativies also. (I am a big animal lover - all kinds, wild and domestic - I live in the woods to be near them).

But a soul is a human quality.

Originally posted by dnero6911
IMO:
The Soul is a place/container.... The Ego goes in that container/place.... and the Spirit is the fuel, or driving force for everything.. it sustains, promotes, runs everything.

Now the Id, the Ego and the SuperEgo are all traits of a personality - more of a psychological thing than a spiritual thing. It's confusing, to say that a soul lives forever, therefore a peronality lives forever - BUT, the ego (part of a personality) does not. In informal or formal logic class we would have to do a formula (which I can't rememeber right now) on that . lol

But the Ego, the Id and the SuperEgo are all parts of the personality that... well, it's normal of course, but it would be like that of the self defence mechanisms and other things attributed to the brain/personality/HUMAN experience. By 'human', I mean earthly physiclal bodies.

Once a soul is released from this body, there are no more imperfection of this flesh to deal with. Therefore, no Ego, SuperEgo or Id or self defence mechenisms etc are needed.)

Now as far as the soul being a 'place or container'... it's just the opposite actualy. It needs no container, but it just so happens that here in this 3D physical life, we have one - the body. After death we are free! No longer are we TRAPPED in this 'container'. We are our soul/spirit - this is energy. This, as with any energy, can not be distroy, only changed. And like any other form of energy - TRAPPED energy becomes a 'solid'. (EX. Water is liquid, steem is gas, but the solid form, the form in which it is 'trapped' is ice - a solid.)

As far as the spirit being the fuel. Well... how to say this... the spirit is the life force some would say. The life energy of this living body - it does not 'run everything' - because this body is physical, our physical bodys need a physical thing to fuel it and 'run it'. That's the brains job. It makes sure the body breaths, and the heart pumps, makes sure we get tired to sleep, hungery to eat, and dream to - lots of reasons for that - big can of worms we'll avoid before this post gets TOOO long!
Once this body dies and is gone, then the spirit, still being 'as is', continues. It, although a part of this body, is seperate and does not need this body for any other reason other than to navagate and sence these 3d (physical) things here. The body must have the spirit to live, but the spirit does not need the body to live.

Originally posted by dnero6911
The Ego to me is who we are as individuals... and just like our physical bodies our Ego bodies can wear "clothing" per-se... like anger, as a ripped garment, or jealousy, or concepts and good things as well... but stripped naked the ego is itself, unchangable, like our physical bodies... only by forced 'butchery'(plastic surgery) can it be changed.... and its changes are permanent... same goes for the EGO, when you do plastic surgery on it.. [plastic surgery for the ego IMO is drugs]

I'd love to explain the Ego, what it is and it's job, but I'm afraid the post would get too long. But after reading what I wrote above, if you still want me to, I'd be glad to explain.



[edit on 8-3-2006 by AngelaLadyS]

Originally posted by marko1970
dnero, I really get what you're saying.
It makes sense to me. The Ego, being the conscience, or awareness, IS what makes a person "who" they are; Based on their own life experiences.
It's all individual to each person.

Now that does sound good... but the Ego, the Id and the SuperEgo are different than the conscious, the unconscious and the subconscious. They have nothing to do with what makes a person WHO they are.... but they have alot to do with what makes the person HOW they are - based on allot of things, including the life experiences. And your right, it is individual to each person.

Originally posted by ShadowedRedemption

Originally posted by marko1970

As far as actual "souls" go, I don't think they have a soul in the same sense you & I have. God created animals to serve man, & also as a food source.
If they had a soul, it wouldn't make much sense to kill them for food. (know what I mean?)

Animals are not capable of thinking about the consequences of their actions.
They can be "trained" to behave, or react in a certain way, such as "Conditioned Response" as Pavlov pointed out. But there's a difference between being alive & trainable, & being an actual sentient, self-aware being.

I disagree with the fact that animals don't have souls. Look at elephants for example. They'll mourn over a member of their family years after that member had died. They feel sadness when they cross the bones of family. Emotions make a being alive, and I believe that emotions exist because the soul resides in the body.

Animals - living breathing animals - were created. They feel, they think on their given levels of ability etc...

But people, people were FIRST created and THEN God breathed the breath of life (our soul) into us.

We, people, are set aside, are different - we are not the same as the other living, breathing animals of this world. And for that reason, we are given charge over them - not only that they are our food and clothing etc, but that we are to tend to them as well.

I could continue with many points here... but all my points would be made using Biblical bases and I'm afraid it may cause things to overheat and close a wonderful thread.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by AngelaLadyS]

Originally posted by Thymus

Do you mean, that afterlife exists? I mean, if we do good things in our life, it will come back to us after life? [edit on 3-8-2006 by Thymus]

Oh my.
Does an after life exist? Yes - we live forever, we never never never never NEVER die. Our bodies do, but 'we' don't. Think of your hand inside a glove. The hand is you(soul/spirit), the golve is your body. If you take off your glove and distroy it - the hand still continues on. The hand is fine, not only fine, but BETTER! It is now more free to feel and work and do what ever it is the hand does. The glove was tattered and torn, dirty and old and it kept the hand from being as nimble and free to do it's job. But remove that old glove and you have a perfect hand undernieth that is even better suited to continue on

Heaven and hell - it's true, there are such places.

As far as what we do here affecting what our afterlife is - yes - very much so. I'd be very happy to talk to you U2U or by e-mail - VERY happy to talk. But I don't think we are free enough here in America anymore to speak freely on all subjects anymore - so we would need to move our conversation to a more private forum. (Please don't edit these words mods - they are important to me).

But basicaly, 1st, there are decitions and things to know and understand that will be the factor as to wheather it's heaven or hell we end up in for eternity. And 2nd - well, hell is hell, there is no worse thing than that, and it can't get any worse than that. But heaven, although we are there and this is so undefinably glorious, we will also be rewarded for our good deeds. (we can't get to heaven with good deeds, but we will be rewarded for them once we are there).

Originally posted by ShadowedRedemption
I don't think people will ever agree on what genuine awareness actually is. I believe it varies from person to person. For example, an awareness for empaths can be the emotions they pick up from people; awareness to a medium would be to be able to sense spirits; awareness could even possibly be the ability to sense the life force of the world. For me personally, it's a bit of everything. A little bit of life, a little of emotion, a tad of thunderstorms, and general balance.
Awareness is one of the things that should be left to open interpretation.

Awareness, although it has a particular meaning, is used for a number of 'ideals'. Awareness is your perception of something. I am able to precieve some things that others are not able to precieve, so my awareness is broader in that sence. But my dog, he can prieceve much higher frequency sounds than I do, so his awareness of sound is greater than mine.

In this case, awareness is based upon the living thing 'being aware'. (Of course, as with the guy so busy looking at the girls butt that he runs into the guy in front of him.... the guy could have had the awareness, but ... well, you get the point.

But many times people like to use the word awareness in terms of an all knowing, omnipresent, alpha and omega in terms of thoughts and knowings, etc. This is a totaly different ideal than the first I discribed above.

You know what? I think I could have just said "I agree" and not garbled up this thread with another long post. LOL!

Originally posted by marko1970

Originally posted by Purgatory


Reincarnation- I wouldn't be so sure about that.

As for your Animal comment, you are completely incorrect. Animals are VERY self-aware, and do possess souls/spirits if you will. It's quite arrogant of you to think otherwise.

[edit on 2-8-2006 by Purgatory]

I have to disagree on the animals comment.

I don't think animals are "self aware" of their actual exsistence. They act & react instinctively, not by a thought process of planned action.

As far as actual "souls" go, I don't think they have a soul in the same sense you & I have. God created animals to serve man, & also as a food source.
If they had a soul, it wouldn't make much sense to kill them for food. (know what I mean?)

Animals are not capable of thinking about the consequences of their actions.
They can be "trained" to behave, or react in a certain way, such as "Conditioned Response" as Pavlov pointed out. But there's a difference between being alive & trainable, & being an actual sentient, self-aware being.

I guess that proves you don't know anything about animals then.
They are Very self-aware, and they are definitely capable of thinking about consequences of their actions- not just mammals- right to birds and reptiles...all animals.
I think the bible has you confused, as Animals most certainly DO have spirits/souls just as we do.


"the Animals share with us the privilege of having a soul" -- PYTHAGORAS (582-507BC) greek philosopher

Originally posted by AngelaLadyS
Oh my.
Does an after life exist? Yes - we live forever, we never never never never NEVER die. Our bodies do, but 'we' don't.

Heaven and hell - it's true, there are such places.

But basicaly, 1st, there are decitions and things to know and understand that will be the factor as to wheather it's heaven or hell we end up in for eternity. And 2nd - well, hell is hell, there is no worse thing than that, and it can't get any worse than that. But heaven, although we are there and this is so undefinably glorious, we will also be rewarded for our good deeds. (we can't get to heaven with good deeds, but we will be rewarded for them once we are there).

Right... Meaning that there is somebody deciding where we will be after life. We end up for eternity at any dump, where animal souls end up anyway, or we will become a new member of a great community, where all the 'qualified' souls go. Simply because there is need for good souls.

Let me see if I can explain what I mean.

First of all, I LOVE ANIMALS TOO!!! I have a strong kinship/bond with them, & very empathetic with them.

I think Animals bond with us. They become "family" & are loyal by nature. They are nurturing. All of these traits are instinctive, by their creation, by God.

Animals can't make choices in the same sense that WE do. They don't conciously choose to do things. They can be trained, & "learn" things... like obedience. So they know they shouldn't poop in the house.... (LOL) But it's not that they "think" to themselves, "Hey, I can't do that, or I'll get in trouble"....

.. What happens is they start to learn by REWARDS, & PRAISE when they do what WE think is right.... so they instinctively adopt those actions.

Yes, they have an amount of feelings, & they can tell when they are safe & secure. They know when they are loved by us, & they desire that bond with us. That's their nature.

But they can't for instance, willfully accept or reject God like we can. They don't have deductive reasoning, & can't plan their actions.

Do they have a soul? or a spirit? I think they at least have a spirit, since they are a living creature. (OK.. Maybe a soul..... ) but it's not on the same level as WE have.

Does that make more sense?

I don't believe that animals are emotioanlly void by ANY MEANS! They feel pain, & love. They feel fear & security. They feel attachment & belonging.

So Maybe I was unclear in my previous posts, or maybe I didn't give them the proper credit that I believe they have.

Will animals be in heaven?
I think so. God says the Lion will lay down with the Lamb. They will exsist in peaceful harmony with each other, along side us.

Will our PETS be in Heaven?
THAT I don't know..... But I'm looking forward to knowing the answer someday!

(& personally, I truly believe that day is much closer than a lot of people think)



God Bless you all!
I enjoy "chatting" with many of you about these things, & have made some new friends along the way.

Everyone so far has been very polite in their expressions & viewpoints. Whether they agree or disagree, It's remained a "discussion", rather than turning into persoanl attacks on one another like some boards I've been on.

(That's VERY refreshing!)

Anyway, I hope THIS post helps clear up what I was trying to say.



[edit on 4-8-2006 by marko1970]

Great Article explaining Animal Self-Awareness.