what proof is there that 'god' exists?

See I always thought that if something can't be proven to exist then it doesn't exist. So god doesn't exist officially untill someone proves it.

But about the big bang, I was just thinking with my little mind when I came up with this "Time", I think there are more energys and forces that we don't know about, so I think time it's self shifted causing some sort of distortion and reaction in the matter of space which in turn created the chemicals which created the planets etc.

What ya guys think ?? should I get a nobel prize ?? lol

well, i guess the best way to prove god exists is in this fictional story, of how 1 naked man can win a battle with the world's mightiest war machine using only 101 words:

one man in the nude approached the united states air force and said:

i declare war upon you. my weapon of choice is the truth:

Dear United States Air Force,
You have taken the oath, all of you:

Link/Source:
usmilitary.about.com...

The United States Air Force’s Oath of Enlistment:

I, ___________________________________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Dear United States Air Force,
Here are your core values, the epitome of what you are, which you swore to me and/or affirmed to yourself, me by proxy:

Link/Source:
usmilitary.about.com...

The United States Air Force Core Values:

Integrity first, service before self, and excellence in all things we do. These core values serve as our road map and set the standard for our behavior.

1) integrity (truth) first.
2) service before self.
3) excellence in all things we do.

Your words.

Now mine: with 101 words of truth, truth shall overcome:

If you had kept your promise to me, and/or yourself, you would know when you invoke the fear in others, when you invoke the sense of the need to survive in others, when you re-enforce their perceived need for keeping the genetic command of “Self Before Service” you disregard your oath to re-enforce the second of your core values of “Service before Self”. If you carry out any order given to you that contradicts the core value you promised me and yourself to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic, it shall be your undoing. Be true to your self.

I approach you, naked and armed only with the truth, and presenting 101 words of truth, I have swept aside the greatest war machine the humanity has created.

be not afraid.


[edit on 19-9-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by JSquared
That is why I keep asking you to provide your proof that a God does not exist...

Just because I have no proof in your eyes, does not mean that your similar lack of proof in my eyes is any more convincing...

I guess I'm just saying we can agree to disagree...you can keep trying to say all my experiences and beliefs are in my head, but it does nothing to prove your point...

Thing is though, this threads about proving god exists, not proving that god does not exist (which is impossible as I dont believe in a god in the first place to disprove it). However the fact still remains that your perceptions and experiences might be nothing more than a figment of your imagination which does prove my point - YOU MAY BE WRONG and the fact that you cannot or will not admit this truth proves your close minded and any discussion will end in stalemate.



G

Originally posted by shihulud
Thing is though, this threads about proving god exists, not proving that god does not exist (which is impossible as I dont believe in a god in the first place to disprove it).

perhaps if you were paying attention to the thread before yours, you might start to consider the possibility.

I think this man bring a good point, you cant prove god does not eist. One way or other its a wast of time to talk with someone who dont have faith. God does eist. If you want prove you have to give a little man, just a little faith. God will walk toward you. Life after death man its a bitg gamable. You should at least try to find the truth. I rather see you in heaven than burning in hell. You might not believe these things. But think about, what if we are right and you are wrong. Open your eyes, CUZ GOD'S PROOF IS ALL AROUND YOU, U JUST CAN NOT SEE. LIFE AFTER DEATH, IS'T IT WORTH A TRY TO FIND THE TRUTH.

It's called the fear of being wrong, and going to a lake of fire; where they have luaus every thrusday.


sounds like Muspelheim. Mmm Fire Giants.

Die in battle and make it to Valhalla and enjoy the Valkyries.

I rather understand the truth of the world

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by shihulud
Thing is though, this threads about proving god exists, not proving that god does not exist (which is impossible as I dont believe in a god in the first place to disprove it).

perhaps if you were paying attention to the thread before yours, you might start to consider the possibility.

Why, what did that prove? I dont see you considering the possibility that YOU are wrong.

Originally posted by slymattb
I think this man bring a good point, you cant prove god does not eist. One way or other its a wast of time to talk with someone who dont have faith. God does eist. If you want prove you have to give a little man, just a little faith. God will walk toward you. Life after death man its a bitg gamable. You should at least try to find the truth. I rather see you in heaven than burning in hell. You might not believe these things. But think about, what if we are right and you are wrong. Open your eyes, CUZ GOD'S PROOF IS ALL AROUND YOU, U JUST CAN NOT SEE. LIFE AFTER DEATH, IS'T IT WORTH A TRY TO FIND THE TRUTH.

Your another one that denies the possibility that you might be wrong.

I know that ALL gods are THEORETICALLY possible but I dont believe that any of them exist.
What if there is life after death? That still doesnt mean that its a gods doing!
Why cant you see that there is wider path to the narrow one you travel?

G

LOL Because A know the truth, As I in the being walk toward be he should be proof. Ur one of those who dont believe he could be wrong. I dont believe ur way cuz God has shown me the truth.Just because ur cant proof he is here does not mean he is not. And even if he did prove ur way, that would destroy Free will of choice, thats way here, free will too choose. God has grated u free will, there would be not free will if God came down and said hi stupid look at me. Big dill. Besides his son came down, did healing of all shorts. And ones that believe God was here did not believe. Look man I am telling u, u can have proof. Its out there. Ur just blinding ur self for the truth. THINK ABOUT IT, WHAT IF WE ARE RIGHT, AND UR WRONG. WOULD U CHANGE UR LIFE FOR GOD.

If god was to appear and prove itself to be god, the only thing that would make me do is believe in god. I wouldn't worship it or anything, haven't had the need to worship anything till now, why start?
Look if you want to believe, go for it, but its not for me. Too hypocritical,contradictory and completely nonsensical in my mind. Would you believe/worship something that you felt was like this?



G

I would believe in what is true and liveing, if there is a God and he told u too worship. Would'nt u

Originally posted by slymattb
I would believe in what is true and liveing, if there is a God and he told u too worship. Would'nt u

No I wouldnt worship him, why should I? I mean he supposedly gave us free will didn't he?
I do not feel the need to worship anything, it is not part of my life. I have better things to do!



G

A PRACTICAL MAN'S PROOF OF GOD

The existence of God is a subject that has occupied schools of philosophy and theology for thousands of years. Most of the time, these debates have revolved around all kinds of assumptions and definitions. Philosophers will spend a lifetime arguing about the meaning of a word and never really get there. One is reminded of the college student who was asked how his philosophy class was going. He replied that they had not done much because when the teacher tried to call roll, the kids kept arguing about whether they existed or not.

Most of us who live and work in the real world do not concern ourselves with such activities. We realize that such discussions may have value and interest in the academic world, but the stress and pressure of day-to-day life forces us to deal with a very pragmatic way of making decisions. If I ask you to prove to me that you have $2.00, you would show it to me. Even in more abstract things we use common sense and practical reasoning. If I ask you whether a certain person is honest or not, you do not flood the air with dissertations on the relative nature of honesty; you would give me evidence one way or the other. The techniques of much of the philosophical arguments that go on would eliminate most of engineering and technology if they were applied in those fields.

The purpose of this brief study is to offer a logical, practical, pragmatic proof of the existence of God from a purely scientific perspective. To do this, we are assuming that we exist, that there is reality, and that the matter of which we are made is real. If you do not believe that you exist, you have bigger problems than this study will entail and you will have to look elsewhere.

THE BEGINNING

If we do exist, there are only two possible explanations as to how our existence came to be. Either we had a beginning or we did not have a beginning. The Bible says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1 :1). The atheist has always maintained that there was no beginning. The idea is that matter has always existed in the form of either matter or energy; and all that has happened is that matter has been changed from form to

form, but it has always been. The Humanist Manifesto says, "Matter is self-existing and not created," and that is a concise statement of the atheist's belief.

The way we decide whether the atheist is correct or not is to see what science has discovered about this question. The picture below on the left represents our part of the cosmos. Each of the disk shaped objects is a galaxy like our Milky Way. All of these galaxies are moving relative to each other. Their movement has a very distinct pattern which causes the distance between the galaxies to get greater with every passing day. If we had three galaxies located at positions A, B. and C in the second diagram below, and if they are located as shown, tomorrow they will be further apart. The triangle they form will be bigger. The day after tomorrow the triangle will be bigger yet. We live in an expanding universe that gets bigger and bigger and bigger with every passing day.

Now let us suppose that we made time run backwards! If we are located at a certain distance today, then yesterday we were closer together. The day before that, we were still closer. Ultimately, where must all the galaxies have been? At a point! At the beginning! At what scientists call a singularity!

A second proof is seen in the energy sources that fuel the cosmos. The picture to the right is a picture of the sun. Like all stars, the sun generates its energy by a nuclear process known as thermonuclear fusion. Every second that passes, the sun Sun Imagecompresses 564 million tons of hydrogen into 560 million tons of helium with 4 million tons of matter released as energy. In spite of that tremendous consumption of fuel, the sun has only used up 2% of the hydrogen it had the day it came into existence. This incredible furnace is not a process

confined to the sun. Every star in the sky generates its energy in the same way. Throughout the cosmos there are 25 quintillion stars, each converting hydrogen into helium, thereby reducing the total amount of hydrogen in the cosmos. Just think about it! If everywhere in the cosmos hydrogen is being consumed and if the process has been going on forever, how much hydrogen should be left?
Suppose I attempt to drive my automobile without putting any more gas (fuel) into it. As I drive and drive, what is eventually going to happen? I am going to run out of gas I If the cosmos has been here forever, we would have run out of hydrogen long ago! The fact is, however, that the sun still has 98% of its original hydrogen. The fact is that hydrogen is the most abundant material in the universe! Everywhere we look in space we can see the hydrogen 21 cm line in the spectrum_a piece of light only given off by hydrogen. This could not be unless we had a beginning!
A third scientific proof that the atheist is wrong is seen in the second law of thermodynamics. In any closed system, things tend to become disordered. If an automobile is driven for years and years without repair, for example, it will become so disordered that it would not run any more. Getting old is simple conformity to the second law of thermodynamics. In space, things also get old. Astronomers refer to the aging process as heat death. If the cosmos is "everything that ever was or is or ever will be," as Dr. Carl Sagan is so fond of saying, nothing could be added to it to improve its order or repair it. Even a universe that expands and collapses and expands again forever would die because it would lose light and heat each time it expanded and rebounded.
The atheist's assertion that matter/energy is eternal is scientifically wrong. The biblical assertion that there was a beginning is scientifically correct.
THE CAUSE
If we know the creation has a beginning, we are faced with another logical question_was the creation caused or was it not caused? The Bible states, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Not only does the Bible maintain that there was a cause_a creation_but it also tells us what the cause was. It was God. The atheist tells us that "matter is self-existing and not created." If matter had a beginning and yet was uncaused, one must logically maintain that something would have had to come into existence out of nothing. From empty space with no force, no matter, no energy, and no intelligence, matter would have to become existent. Even if this could happen by some strange new process unknown to science today, there is a logical problem.
In order for matter to come out of nothing, all of our scientific laws dealing with the conservation of matter/energy would have to be wrong, invalidating all of chemistry. All of our laws of conservation of angular momentum would have to be wrong, invalidating all of physics. All of our laws of conservation of electric charge would have to be wrong, invalidating all of electronics and demanding that your TV set not work!! Your television set may not work, but that is not the reason! In order to believe matter is uncaused, one has to discard known laws and principles of science. No reasonable person is going to do this simply to maintain a personal atheistic position.
The atheist's assertion that matter is eternal is wrong. The atheist's assertion that the universe is uncaused and selfexisting is also incorrect The Bible's assertion that there was a beginning which was caused is supported strongly by the available scientific evidence.
THE DESIGN
If we know that the creation had a beginning and we know that the beginning was caused, there is one last question for us to answer--what was the cause? The Bible tells us that God was the cause. We are further told that the God who did the causing did so with planning and reason and logic. Romans 1:20 tells us that we can know God is
"]through the things he has made." The

atheist, on the other hand, will try to convince us that we are the product of chance. Julian Huxley once said:
We are as much a product of blind forces as is the falling of a stone to earth or the ebb and flow of the tides. We have just happened, and man was made flesh by a long series of singularly beneficial accidents.
The subject of design has been one that has been explored in many different ways. For most of us, simply looking at our newborn child is enough to rule out chance. Modern-day scientists like Paul Davies and Frederick Hoyle and others are raising elaborate objections to the use of chance in explaining natural phenomena. A principle of modern science has emerged in the 1980s called "the anthropic principle." The basic thrust of the anthropic principle is that chance is simply not a valid mechanism to explain the atom or life. If chance is not valid, we are constrained to reject Huxley's claim and to realize that we are the product of an intelligent God.

There, I got this in an email and researched it for myself( I have to see if it's legit) all the info checks out. Therefore, I conclude this is pretty good evidence in a power greater than ourselves. Is it God? I think so; nevertheless I think this is proof of a higher being.

Here's another article:
Article 1

Another:
Does the Second Law of Thermodynamics Prove the Existence of God?

Like I said and repeat, God is out there, there is more proof than u think. Like I said when something predict something to happen and it comes to pass. its predicting history. believe what u want to believe for me, Ill work for true and wisdom.

I sure hope that I am not throwing pearls before swine here.

Not proof, just supporting evidence:

Any 12 year old child can tell you that thousands of years ago, most if not all humans thought the world was round, and held up by something such as a turtle or Atlas.

HOWEVER...

...Having been inspired by the Lord, the author of the book of Job demonstrated knowledge of a gravitational field, knowledge that should not have been available thousands of years ago.

“He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.”
Job 26:7


Having been inspired by the Lord, the author of Isaiah stated that the Earth was round.

“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in”
Isaiah 40:22



So, either aliens gave these men such knowledge of a round earth suspended by "nothing" or God did. We are on ATS, so I guess to many the alien thing sounds more appealing, however the text is right about a round earth and gravity, so we should probably be leaning toward the "divine inspiration" possibility that the authors obviously would attest to.







[edit on 29-9-2006 by cavscout]

Originally posted by cavscout
So, either aliens gave these men such knowledge of a round earth suspended by "nothing" or God did. We are on ATS, so I guess to many the alien thing sounds more appealing, however the text is right about a round earth and gravity, so we should probably be leaning toward the "divine inspiration" possibility that the authors obviously would attest to.
[edit on 29-9-2006 by cavscout]

Why give any of the two any credence?
Are we as human beings incapable of figuring things out for ourselves that we NEED to have a god or alien benefactors to tell us how things work???????
Oh yes, it was aliens that told Bill Gates how to write Windows and god told Henry Ford how to build a car.



G

Originally posted by cavscout
I sure hope that I am not throwing pearls before swine here.
Not proof, just supporting evidence:
...Having been inspired by the Lord, the author of the book of Job demonstrated knowledge of a gravitational field, knowledge that should not have been available thousands of years ago.

Having been inspired by the Lord, the author of Isaiah stated that the Earth was round.

“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in”
Isaiah 40:22
[edit on 29-9-2006 by cavscout]

The passage saying the earth is round is Isaiah 40:22:

This passage may reasonably be interpreted as referring to a flat circular earth with the heavens forming a dome above it. Such an interpretation is consistent with other passages of the Bible which refer to a solid firmament (Gen. 1:6-20, 7:11; Ezekiel 1:22-26; Job 9:8, 22:14, etc.). It is also consistent with the cosmology common in neighboring cultures.

Isaiah 11:12 refers to the "four quarters of the earth", but we do not take that as indicative of the earth's shape.

The shape of the earth may already have been known in Isaiah's time. Ancient astronomers could determine that the earth was round by observing its circular shadow move across the moon during lunar eclipses. There is some suggestion that the Egyptians knew of the earth's spherical size and shape around 2550 B.C.E. (more than a thousand years before Moses). The Greek philosopher Pythagoras, who was born in 532 B.C.E., defended the spherical theory on the basis of observations he had made of the shape of the sun and moon (Uotila 1984). If this information was known by educated Greeks and Egyptians during biblical times, its use by Isaiah is nothing special.


Also what is the earth set upon?

Job 26.7

"He ... hangeth the earth upon nothing."

Or pillars?

1 Samuel 2:8
The pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.

Job 9:6
Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.

We all have to come off of the idea that unti Columbus, everyone thought the Earth was flat. It's rediculous, and just a means to simplify the reasons for Columbus's voyage for schoolchildren.

en.wikipedia.org...

Eratosthenes (276 BC - 194 BC) estimated Earth's circumference around 240 BC. He had heard about a place in Egypt where the Sun was directly overhead at the summer solstice and used geometry to come up with a circumference of 250,000 stades. This estimate astonishes some modern writers, as it is within 2% of the modern value of the equatorial circumference, 40,075 kilometres. However, the length of a 'stade' is not precisely known; Eratosthenes' figure falls short if we do not use a fairly generous estimate for this length.

Not only was it known, but measured accurately.

God does not exist in a sentient, intervening deity, and never was. This is just a means to keep people in line, and as my mother says, to keep the poor from killing the rich. If one is always looking to God for answers, and the only way to find him is either through a book, or a church, then you're always stuck in service to this book or church.