what proof is there that 'god' exists?

Raso,
The people who wound up attributing intelligent design in creation to a creator did not do so immediately. They are brilliant scientists (most who were originally atheists) that also were full of curiosity and determined to find answers to our natural world. They were honest enough with themselves to admit that all their curious searching lead them to the inescapable conclusion that the world is the product of a MIND.

Irreducible complexity is not crap. It's one thing to say "I don't know" and quite another to say "there's no way it could be otherwise".

Oh, and Gonz, please don't help me out. I haven't been able to make heads or tales of any of your posts.

Originally posted by gonz
Lol, you obviously take most things in this world for granted...

Wheather you want it or not this world is proof that there is a God.

This world is FAR too detailed to have come from ((Gas)), or Nothing, so perfect that there is man and woman no average "Being", a world full of detail like ours with a mouth and nose and eyes and even the mind, came from nothing? their in such places to help us breathe and help us see, there must have been understanding before the creation of Human kind.

Oh I beg to differ - this world is NOT evidence of a god, neither is the detail and complexity of the universe.

Originally posted by whitewave
Raso,
The people who wound up attributing intelligent design in creation to a creator did not do so immediately. They are brilliant scientists (most who were originally atheists) that also were full of curiosity and determined to find answers to our natural world. They were honest enough with themselves to admit that all their curious searching lead them to the inescapable conclusion that the world is the product of a MIND.

Have you ever read the demographic statistics on religious beliefs? In particular the atheist/agnostic statistics? In 1996 a study was done for scientists, over 60% professed a disbelief in a god, this rose to 93% of members of the National Academy of Sciences.
Some quite interesting information given, America has a high belief in gods while western europe has quite a low belief and more people professing atheistic/agnostic views.
check out the rest of the statistics here:
Stats.

So it seems to be where you live that helps determines your religious beliefs.


G

Originally posted by whitewave
Irreducible complexity is not crap. It's one thing to say "I don't know" and quite another to say "there's no way it could be otherwise".

You mean like saying "I don't know how this world could possibly this complex" compared to saying "Since I don't know how it works, it must be God, and can't be otherwise"

No Raso. It's more like saying, "I know quite a bit and many of my learned colleagues know quite a bit and we have concluded that with all we know, there can be no other explanation."

Shihalud,
I have read the statistics on religious belief. Wikipedia is informative but since anyone can edit the information there, one has to wonder at what point does the information become verifiably accurate. Here's another source: www.adherents.com/Religious_By_Adherents.html .
Wikipedias information was from 1996? This site is from 2005. World population of Christian (protestant or Catholic) = 56 %; worldwide Islamic population = 21 %; Buddhists worldwide are 6 %; 14 % of the worlds population ascribe to Hinduism, while Judaism seems to only have 0.22 %. Altogether that's over 56 % of the world's population that confess to belief in some god. Hardly a local phenomenon or isolated cultural practice.
It's sort of a moot point anyway. Just because a lot of people believe one way or the other doesn't make either side correct in their belief. But thanks for sharing.

Originally posted by whitewave
No Raso. It's more like saying, "I know quite a bit and many of my learned colleagues know quite a bit and we have concluded that with all we know, there can be no other explanation."

That is absolutely rediculous.

I know quite a bit about computers, as do many of my friends. And, even with our combined knowledge, we don't know everything. God is the unknowable. YOu can have as much faith as you want, but that does not equal proof.

With statements like that, it's hard to believe I'm still responding.

Originally posted by whitewave
Shihalud,
I have read the statistics on religious belief. Wikipedia is informative but since anyone can edit the information there, one has to wonder at what point does the information become verifiably accurate. Here's another source: www.adherents.com/Religious_By_Adherents.html .
Wikipedias information was from 1996? This site is from 2005. World population of Christian (protestant or Catholic) = 56 %; worldwide Islamic population = 21 %; Buddhists worldwide are 6 %; 14 % of the worlds population ascribe to Hinduism, while Judaism seems to only have 0.22 %. Altogether that's over 56 % of the world's population that confess to belief in some god. Hardly a local phenomenon or isolated cultural practice.
It's sort of a moot point anyway. Just because a lot of people believe one way or the other doesn't make either side correct in their belief. But thanks for sharing.

The fact that the bible has been edited one can only wonder if the information is verifiably accurate.
The point on statistics (even though I do believe these figures are innacurate - you would really have to ask everyone) that I was trying to make was the a lot more scientists are non believers and the fact it depends on where you live reflects what you believe.

SO are you saying that what you believe might be wrong?


G

So you accept the fact that you might be wrong in your beliefs?

Raso,
You are free to quit responding any time as are any of us and since there's already a thread of this nature going on ATS then I think I'll bow out and just answer once on that one thread.

Shihalud,
No, I'm not admitting that I might be wrong in my beliefs and there were a couple of errors in your logic in presenting your case but since you're already on the similar thread in ATS, I'll answer you there. In fact, I just posted a response to your last post there on that site.

While reading this thread I am reminded of a great teacher and Jedi Master Ben Kenobi who once told a young and naive Luke.

"Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

As funny as quoting from a movie like star wars to make a point. I know that quote strikes cords…

With that being said… We are ALL in the same boat here. I can not prove to you no more you can prove to me. The easy way out is to say the answer you seek is a conundrum. However I disagree, but my perspective and walk in life has lead me to answers I only found in my own journey.

In closing, any religion is a system and it is a "closed architecture" with limits and ignorance. Jesus freed us from these religious bondages along time ago for every man, women, and child. Ironically the same people he freed over time has reapply the bondage warped and defiled his teachings.

We all prejudge and fall short, but much like our young Jedi Luke we must face and over come. Help the Buddhist, Atheist, Christian, etc. cross the street. Free your mind. NOTHING in this world you can hold on to. Not a damn thing. Let go, let it all go… it’s the only way to be free.

I hope this post was a blessing to you. Not shoving anything or even have an agenda, been there done that. I only want you to think. With that I offer you a Good Journey because its not the destination but the path one walks.

We define a term:

God: All that is, was, and ever shall be.

With that term now defined...

We ask ourselves...

Is there God?

I think therefore I am.

I am therefore I was
I am therefore I shall continue to be.

There is, was, and shall be all that I am.

I am

therefore there is God

God: All that is, was, and ever shall be.

Being a part of "all that is"...I AM GOD.

Are you?

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
We define a term:

God: All that is, was, and ever shall be.

With that term now defined...

We ask ourselves...

Is there God?

I think therefore I am.

I am therefore I was
I am therefore I shall continue to be.

There is, was, and shall be all that I am.

I am

therefore there is God

God: All that is, was, and ever shall be.

Being a part of "all that is"...I AM GOD.

Are you?

Sri Oracle

OK where were you 300 years ago? - Nowhere, and where will you be 300 years from now? - Nowhere.
Therefore since you weren't and will not be - there is no god.
Good reasoning


G

Originally posted by shihulud
OK where were you 300 years ago? - Nowhere,

I was a spark of the yet unmanifest dream in one of the sperm cells of my gggggg-great grandfather

and where will you be 300 years from now? - Nowhere.

transmutated into the leaves of a large oaktree that fed on my decaying remains

I was.

I am.

I ever shall be.


Sri Oracle

"what proof is there that God exists?"

This thread: existence itself.

Infinite love and eternal peace.

[edit on 19-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality
"what proof is there that God exists?"

This thread: existence itself.

Infinite love and eternal peace.

[edit on 19-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

That is NOT proof that god exists. THERE IS NO PROOF that god exists or doesn't for that matter. Just because you have some preconceived notion doesn't mean your right.
There are threads on atlantis and UFO's and what not so does that mean all these things exist???????. Didnt think so

Well, let's talk about existence. Why are you here? How did you get here? What are you here for? What are you? Where are you? Who are you? What is your true purpose? It's okay to question God, in fact God wants you to otherwise we wouldn't make progress. Sure extra-terrestrials exist, who do you imagine the messengers from 'the heavens above' mentioned in our religions were? It's the acceptance of the existence of nothing that is to fear (and if you're familiar with my previous posts then you know exactly what I mean), it's just the way it is.

♥~Infinite love and eternal peace~♥

[edit on 19-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality
Well, let's talk about existence. Why are you here? How did you get here? What are you here for? What are you? Where are you? Who are you? What is your true purpose? It's okay to question God, in fact God wants you to otherwise we wouldn't make progress. Sure extra-terrestrials exist, who do you imagine the messengers from 'the heavens above' mentioned in our religions were? It's the acceptance of the existence of nothing that is to fear (and if you're familiar with my previous posts then you know exactly what I mean), it's just the way it is.

♥~Infinite love and eternal peace~♥

[edit on 19-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Lets talk about existance. Why am I here? - because I haven't died yet!
How did I get here? - human sexual reproduction!
What am I here for? - Because my mother and father wanted another child or the bigger picture, NO REASON AT ALL except I AM (sounds familiar)
What am I? - A carbon based lifeform,Human, Homo sapiens sapiens
Where am I ? - Scotland, Earth, Solar system, Milky way, Floating in space
Who am I? - I'm Me
What is my true purpose? - I don't know, whats a 'true purpose' and who says we need one???????????
If its OK to question god then why does he penalise the folk that dont believe?
' Its Ok to not believe but you'd better by the time you die or your going to hell!!!'
You havent thought this through have you ????
OK so what type of christian are you that believes that angels were ET's? One that believes god was ????
And its the acceptance of the existance of 'The Unknowable' that is fear manifest!!!



G

Originally posted by shihulud

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality


[edit on 19-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Lets talk about existance. Why am I here? - because I haven't died yet!
How did I get here? - human sexual reproduction!
What am I here for? - Because my mother and father wanted another child or the bigger picture, NO REASON AT ALL except I AM (sounds familiar)
What am I? - A carbon based lifeform,Human, Homo sapiens sapiens
Where am I ? - Scotland, Earth, Solar system, Milky way, Floating in space
Who am I? - I'm Me
What is my true purpose? - I don't know, whats a 'true purpose' and who says we need one???????????
If its OK to question god then why does he penalise the folk that dont believe?
' Its Ok to not believe but you'd better by the time you die or your going to hell!!!'
You havent thought this through have you ????
OK so what type of christian are you that believes that angels were ET's? One that believes god was ????
And its the acceptance of the existance of 'The Unknowable' that is fear manifest!!!



G

How did human sexual reproduction get here? How did your Mother and Father get here? What is the 'bigger picture'? There is no reason to existence? How did you become a Carbon based life form? How big is the space that you exist in? You're you? Do you really know you? I never mentioned need for a purpose, only asked the extent of one. God does not penalize anyone, Humans penalize other Humans and themselves through lack of responsibility. You haven't thought this through, have you? I'm not a Christian, I'm not religious at all. I'm a being that is existing with and through the perfection of my God. Only nothing is unknowable.

♥~Infinite Love and Eternal Peace~♥

[edit on 19-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality

How did human sexual reproduction get here? How did your Mother and Father get here? There is no reason to existence? How did you become a Carbon based life form? How big is the space that you exist in? You're you? Do you really know you? I never mentioned need for a purpose, only asked the extent of one. God does not penalize anyone, Humans penalize other Humans and themselves through lack of responsibility. You haven't thought this through, have you? I'm not a Christian, I'm not religious at all. I'm a being that is existing with and through the perfection of my God. Only nothing is unknowable.

♥~Infinite Love and Eternal Peace~♥

[edit on 19-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

How did human reproduction get here? - through some evolutionary process
How did your Mother and Father get here? - see above
What is the 'bigger picture'? I just thought you wanted something more
How did you become a Carbon based life form? - Why not carbon?
How big is the space that you exist in? - I dont know, not infinite though
You're you? - The last time I looked yes, As far as I know I'm the only one of me in the universe
Do you really know you? - Not really but I'm the best judge of what me in that I believe me before anyone else
I've thought long and damn hard on this subject for many many years and why should my conclusions be wrong with no evidence for or against?
Hmmm your not religious but the definition of religion from merriam webster

b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

and you said "I'm a being that is existing with and through the perfection of my God. Only nothing is unknowable.
" Oh and BTW the INFINITE is unknowable also.


G

Originally posted by shihulud

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality

How did human sexual reproduction get here? How did your Mother and Father get here? There is no reason to existence? How did you become a Carbon based life form? How big is the space that you exist in? You're you? Do you really know you? I never mentioned need for a purpose, only asked the extent of one. God does not penalize anyone, Humans penalize other Humans and themselves through lack of responsibility. You haven't thought this through, have you? I'm not a Christian, I'm not religious at all. I'm a being that is existing with and through the perfection of my God. Only nothing is unknowable.

♥~Infinite Love and Eternal Peace~♥

[edit on 19-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

How did human reproduction get here? - through some evolutionary process
How did your Mother and Father get here? - see above
What is the 'bigger picture'? I just thought you wanted something more
How did you become a Carbon based life form? - Why not carbon?
How big is the space that you exist in? - I dont know, not infinite though
You're you? - The last time I looked yes, As far as I know I'm the only one of me in the universe
Do you really know you? - Not really but I'm the best judge of what me in that I believe me before anyone else
I've thought long and damn hard on this subject for many many years and why should my conclusions be wrong with no evidence for or against?
Hmmm your not religious but the definition of religion from merriam webster

b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

and you said "I'm a being that is existing with and through the perfection of my God. Only nothing is unknowable.
" Oh and BTW the INFINITE is unknowable also.


G

How did that evolutionary process come about? I'm opening your eyes to the bigger picture if you're willing to lend me their beauty. The space you exist in isn't infinite huh? Then please tell me why it is finite and what exists outside of it. Are you really the only one of you in the universe? You know you the best? Are you sure? I think that right now I am without a doubt helping you get to know yourself better. We are all one, I know you just as you know me. SUPER-natural? What is supernatural? All things are simply natural because they exist. I can use another word besides God if you'd like. Perhaps the infinite creator/creation, the infinite source, the eternal being. If the infinite is unkowable then tell me how you know that. I know the infinite very well, personally and by means of deduction. Knowing doesn't have to be a set limitation. Just because it never ends doesn't mean that I don't know it... because I never end... I am the space that is infinite and eternal. Therefore I have eternally and infinitely known and will eternally and infinitely know.

♥~Infinite Love and Eternal Peace~♥

[edit on 19-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteRealityI think that right now I am without a doubt helping you get to know yourself better. We are all one, I know you just as you know me.

You get my "Way Above Top Secret" award for the month...

Ubiquitous, you are operating at a higher vibration... I sense it.

I am you, you are me.

One,

Sri Oracle