what proof is there that 'god' exists?

JSquared,

Yea, could say there is abit of anger there. I personally really could care less what people want to believe, but it irks me when the worlds religions, and especially hipochristianity tries to force their beliefs upon me. We don't need religion in our public schools, on our money, in our courts or in our governments. Religion should be a private personal worship, or done in church's with like minded people. AND THATS IT.

I don't discredit the possibility of a creator, but there is no proof of one. It's a primitive theory thought up by primitive people by primitive thinking. Today we have more advanced theories of how the universe came to be. Truth be told, NO ONE KNOWS. And I'd be damned to have anyone, scientist or man of faith try and force me to accept an answer to an UNKNOWABLE question.

Honestly, if there is some supernatural creator then good, but I doubt it would give two cow flaps if you worshipped it or kissed it's hairy arse day in and day out. I even doubt that it would choose just a select arrogant egotistical bunch of hypocrits as it's 'favorite' people. Talk about illogical. Such a creator with those kinds of powers that can create entire universe's COULD NOT be that stupid.

On the other hand, if there is no creator then the universe has just gotten a hell of alot more interesting and awe inspiring. Atleast in my opinion. I personally wouldn't be so awe strucked by the universe if it were created. It would be much more ... can't even think of a proper word to describe it if there were no creator. That's how amazing it would be. So much to discover, so much to learn. But no, instead we can just say god did it and kill each other over different beliefs.

Proton I agree with what you say apart from one thing,
you say that religion has caused fighting more recently but its caused it since the start, especially the sollowers of the bible.
I also feel the saae anger towards some religions, how many have died in Africa becasue the CAtholic church who many there now follow wont make it acceptable to use a condom. Or the terrorist attacks which are fronted byal-quada in the name os ISlam. ALhtough when you look into it this is becaue of the Jews in Israel/PAlestine.
As was once said- 'religion is the root of all evil,' except the flying spaghetti monster he onyl creatres love and happiness.

P.S. Still after 5 pages of discussion no one has given any proof of god just vain attempts to rubbish religion.

Shenroon,
If you came to this thread looking for absolute proof of a divine creator, then you are barking up the wrong tree.

I'd never expect to find the answer in this thread, however it does have a better insight than is often offered by todays religions.

Originally posted by Shenroon

P.S. Still after 5 pages of discussion no one has given any proof of god just vain attempts to rubbish religion.

All anyone has to do to find the wall you put up for yourself is to look at your statement in your avatar ... "Athiest 2 da core"...

You have that right, to shield yourself from broader thinking, but why is it that Athiests are normally the ones that come to these threads and post nothing to contribute? Maybe it is because you don't have anything to contribute? Other than of course, the usual uneducated babble about "nobody can prove it, so why believe it?"...

I haven't seen anyone disprove the existence of a God/energy either....

As someone stated earlier, religion of any kind, is about Faith....if you have no faith in anything, then so be it......Why make a mockery of someone else's choice of having faith? Does it boost your juvenile ego?

Shenroon,

I don't recall saying recently though. Nor would I say it's because of the jews either. It's all religions, well .. more specifically the monotheistic one's. They piss and moan about each other not having it 'right' and then kill each other over it, all the while being little ignorant hypocrits and deluding themselve's into thinking their following their deities laws and commandments in full. Agreed though, the jews are just as much a problem as any other religion. Looking through the history of religion though, I still would say hipochristianity is by far the most horrible hypocritical faith system ever seen on the face of this planet. Atleast the Jews never changed their religion upteen million times. How many version's of hipochristianity are there? Too many to count and with more being born each and every day.

JSquared,

"All anyone has to do to find the wall you put up for yourself is to look at your statement in your avatar ..."

The same could be said about any person of faith though. Despite all the evidence AGAINST some fanciful creation event, people of faith have put this HUGE massive reinforced concrete wall between themselves and common sense. Honestly, who in there right mind would go upto someone else and say "Ya know, all the worlds problems are caused by a woman that was decieved by a talking snake" ...

Or accepting the wine from water fiasco as a miracle and yet it's just a neato parlor trick if a stage magician today does it. FFS, even walking on water is doable by any good illusionist. Nearly every so called miracle is reproducable, yet this wall followers of faith have put up blocks the view of reality from them.

"I haven't seen anyone disprove the existence of a God/energy either"

You have. Numerous times. Here on ATS, on the news, other website's you've probably visited. You've chosen not to accept it, which is fine in a way, but detrimental to yourself in the long run, depending on how deep you allow faith to take control of your life. Just look at islamic extremists.

"As someone stated earlier, religion of any kind, is about Faith....if you have no faith in anything, then so be it......Why make a mockery of someone else's choice of having faith? Does it boost your juvenile ego?"

I haven't met a single person who has rock solid faith in their religion. Not one. Let alone anyone who even bother's to follow the laws of their diety of choice. But in retrospect, does it boost the juvenile ego of religious folk to make a mockery of scientific progress? We discover that the earth isn't the center of the universe, what happens? Religous people make a mockery of gallileo and murder him. It took 400 years for an official apology for that juvenile egotistical behavior. So many more examples, both in the past and in todays world. None of them have strong anough faith and this is why they continously try and put a wrench into scientific progress. Please, let's not talk about juvenile ego's while we're in a religous forum.

I doubt that it will matter, but wanted to share a link that I find very interesting. At least food for thought for anyone who is still interested-

www.usedtapes.com...

Written by Perry Marshall, an electrical engineer who I think is a fascinating guy. I'm not going to replicate his information here since it's fairly comprehensive in the link, but his basic premise involves DNA being a language.

If you get through that, here's a link with a synopsis of a running debate he's had on line-

www.usedtapes.com...

There's a link there where you can navigate to the "Infidels" board and see the ongoing discussion.

Originally posted by Prot0n
JSquared,

The same could be said about any person of faith though. Despite all the evidence AGAINST some fanciful creation event, .....

Again, I see no concrete evidence against an intelligent force or energy that could not have started it all...The same argument Atheists choose to use against religion....There is nothing concrete on either side....that is why I said what I did about Faith...

...... Here on ATS, on the news, other website's you've probably visited. You've chosen not to accept it, which is fine in a way, but detrimental to yourself in the long run, depending on how deep you allow faith to take control of your life. Just look at islamic extremists.....

I highly doubt Islamic extremists have a good amount of faith, taught by the Koran....these people are brainwashed from birth....true Muslims know that their religion is one of peace, just like the majority of religions...

Just because it seems like the crap is hitting the fan all the time, in the media, and in life in general, is just a test of faith....that is why you have faith....If I didn't have faith in anything, what would my purpose be?

I haven't met a single person who has rock solid faith in their religion.

That is exactly why I don't claim a particular religion....I have rock solid faith that there is something greater to us all....I try to live my life right towards others, and to myself....I give thanks for the things I achieve...I can die any second, so what little time I have here, I choose to live for others as well as myself...it makes the world a little more tolerable...

Let alone anyone who even bother's to follow the laws of their diety of choice.

That is the main fault I find in religion myself...Why preach it if you can't say you practice it?

But in retrospect, does it boost the juvenile ego of religious folk to make a mockery of scientific progress?

I hope you don't think I was mocking science....as that was not my intention.

I know science is a good thing. With it, we can understand VAST worlds of knowledge that we could never comprehend otherwise. Yes, I believe the Big Bang was possible. Yes, I believe it most likely occured. But I also allow that the possibility that THE possibility of the Bing Bang occured is just as good as it having a catalyst itself. Just because I say that, it doesn't mean I am cramming a creator down your throat..I am allowing myself to accept it as possible fact.

Yes, I know that evolution exists. But again, neither you nor I can prove that there is not a force behind evolution.

None of them have strong anough faith and this is why they continously try and put a wrench into scientific progress. Please, let's not talk about juvenile ego's while we're in a religous forum.

Again, I'm not trying to put a wrench in Science. I have strong enough faith in what I believe that I continuously seek knowledge to be able to understand the relationship between it and science. The two can coexist.

As far as the juvenile ego comment, yeah it was probably out of line, but I let my anger get the best of me sometimes when people make claims that they cannot back up.

I really respect you Prot0n for debating this in a civil manner. I hope you can understand me better now. I am not an enemy. We are all on this rock together. Without each other, we will never figure anything out...

Watch out for the christian sales pitch!!!!



I hear you on your question, but watch out cause all of the ,"christian bible thumpers", are gonna ," try ", to say ohh the bible says it all. Or," all you have to do is read this book", written by man, it has all the answers, YEAH RIGHT!!!!! show me one, just one peice of proof that the bible is real and accurate. not some made up garbage about ohh its says this or that. ONE OUNCE OF PROOF!!!!!! is that so hard?????? we'll we are all entitled to ,"OUR OPINIONS", mine included, I got my mind made up on my views of the one true religion. And it doesn't require me to give money or believe in some invisible scary guy that will send me to a burning eternity if I don't believe what some made up story book says!!!

Again, I see no concrete evidence against an intelligent force or energy that could not have started it all...The same argument Atheists choose to use against religion....There is nothing concrete on either side....that is why I said what I did about Faith...

Definately agreed there. There is no evidence on either side for how the universe came to be. That's what ticks me off the most. Both science and religion will sit there and act all smug thinking they got it. No, they have theories and that's all. Neither side will ever know the answer to that particular question.

I do understand the faith issue. Back in ancient times, it WAS faith. But in today's world, there's less and less faith in a creator, even by those who say they are of faith. Today, religion is more political then anything. I guess even back then it had a strong dealing with politics. Number one reason why hipochristianity is one of the main religion's these days.

While there is no evidence for or against an intelligent force behind the creation of our universe, I feel very strongly that using such an argument in favor of such a concept is rather pathetic, and alot of people usually default to this. However, there is evidence for how life came about through natural means, this is one of the thing's that upsets religion as it knocks down genesis. Although I have noticed that evolution is becoming more accepted in religous circles, it just goes to show what religion really is. Anyone with abit of common sense can see that.

That is exactly why I don't claim a particular religion....I have rock solid faith that there is something greater to us all....I try to live my life right towards others, and to myself....I give thanks for the things I achieve...I can die any second, so what little time I have here, I choose to live for others as well as myself...it makes the world a little more tolerable...

Well, now I understand a little better. And it would be great if more people were that same way. I would be perfectly fine if people thought there was something greater out there that created the universe. That's fine with me. No, there's no evidence for it and I won't accept anything without any evidence to back it up, just as I won't accept science's explanation either. The problem with organized religions is that, while they claim to live the same way you described, they end up doing the exact opposite. Starting wars over who's god has a bigger one compared to the other. Amongst other problems.

That is the main fault I find in religion myself...Why preach it if you can't say you practice it?

EXACTLEY!!!! !!!! !!!! !!!! !!!!

I hope you don't think I was mocking science....as that was not my intention.

No, that wasn't personally directed towards you. Just the majority of religous folk, particularly those of arganized religions such as hipochristianity and their talking snakes.

I know science is a good thing. With it, we can understand VAST worlds of knowledge that we could never comprehend otherwise. Yes, I believe the Big Bang was possible. Yes, I believe it most likely occured. But I also allow that the possibility that THE possibility of the Bing Bang occured is just as good as it having a catalyst itself. Just because I say that, it doesn't mean I am cramming a creator down your throat..I am allowing myself to accept it as possible fact.

I personally believe the evidence in favor of the big bang happening, I just don't believe any of the crap they say about how it went down. We can't go back that far and see what happened and so to me atleast, that is an unknowable event. There's some thing's that we just won't have an answer to. We have to accept that and move on to more important matters. Like world hunger and energy and survival of our species.

I don't discredit the idea of a creator, but personally I think the universe would be pretty boring if it was just created at the whims of some other intelligent being, supernatural or not. I've yet to see anything to convince me that there was a creator, but I do know that man was the originator of such a concept.

Again, I'm not trying to put a wrench in Science. I have strong enough faith in what I believe that I continuously seek knowledge to be able to understand the relationship between it and science. The two can coexist.

Again, wasn't directly pointed at you in particular. I personally don't think science and a creator can coexist. How'd the universe get here? The creator created it. So where's the scientific discovery? Nearly every question can just be written off to the creator without having to put much though behind it. We can try and guess how it did it, but that's all we'll ever be able to do. GUESS. And for me, that just doesn't cut it for scientific progress. Unless we can sit down face to face with such a creator and LEARN directly how and why, there'll never be any science.

As far as the juvenile ego comment, yeah it was probably out of line, but I let my anger get the best of me sometimes when people make claims that they cannot back up.

I know what you mean. That's why I've got a problem when people try and say the universe was created by some higher being. Personally, if you think that then you should be able to back it up. If you can't back it up, then I personally wouldn't accept it and I find it hard to believe that anyone would just sit idly and believe anything without any evidence. It's like me saying sheep talk to each other in pig latin when people aren't around and you just accepting it as fact. IDK, just doesn't sit well with me.

I really respect you Prot0n for debating this in a civil manner. I hope you can understand me better now. I am not an enemy. We are all on this rock together. Without each other, we will never figure anything out...

I try to be as civil as I can, although I know I'm an arse most of the time. Truthfully, I did think of you as the enemy at first, but now that I've come to understand more about you better I can finally respect you as well. I just wish and hope people everywhere on this planet would just give up on this one pointless question. How'd the universe come to be. Science will never have a factual answer, just guess's. And religion created the god(s) as an answer and political control mechanism. Niether IMO has it right and no one ever will. Wow, long post.

Originally posted by JSquared

Originally posted by Shenroon

P.S. Still after 5 pages of discussion no one has given any proof of god just vain attempts to rubbish religion.

All anyone has to do to find the wall you put up for yourself is to look at your statement in your avatar ... "Athiest 2 da core"...

You have that right, to shield yourself from broader thinking, but why is it that Athiests are normally the ones that come to these threads and post nothing to contribute? Maybe it is because you don't have anything to contribute? Other than of course, the usual uneducated babble about "nobody can prove it, so why believe it?"...

I haven't seen anyone disprove the existence of a God/energy either....

As someone stated earlier, religion of any kind, is about Faith....if you have no faith in anything, then so be it......Why make a mockery of someone else's choice of having faith? Does it boost your juvenile ego?

Shield myself from broader thinking, sorry but I used to be a christian, guess Im gonna burn in hell for not being faithful enough. I'm not trying to make a mockery (although sometimes I do coem across that way), I'm giving my point of view in this debate whihc I believe is 'what proof is there tht god exists' and none has been offered except its a matter of faith.
And I really dont think my avatar has any bearing in this discussion either.
Finally I havnt seen anything to disprove Santa, the easter bunny, the flying spaghetti monster, lock ness, big foot, the alien autopsy video(the original), the tooth fairy adn yet I believe in none of them and no-one else does either (except small children and fanatics.)

to the arigional topic. There is proof, and body who tells you different is a lie. Just dont think God is coming down on earth to smack you in your face to prove it. the bible predicts history left and right. Right now as we talk revelations predicts is happening. If you want proof ask God to show you the truth. He talk with u. Just not the way you want it. How many phrophests does it take to prove history before you start talking to God's and let him talk to you.

Originally posted by slymattb
to the arigional topic. There is proof, and body who tells you different is a lie. Just dont think God is coming down on earth to smack you in your face to prove it. the bible predicts history left and right. Right now as we talk revelations predicts is happening. If you want proof ask God to show you the truth. He talk with u. Just not the way you want it. How many phrophests does it take to prove history before you start talking to God's and let him talk to you.

Sorry are you talking about the bible code,
and revelations has been 'happening' for 100s of years.
And the is really only one way for someone to talk to me, unlkess god has email.

Like I said He's not coming down to smck u. God's world is about faith, if you have none you'll never walk throw the door. Why should God talk to u, if u dont talk to him, or have no faith. It would be pointless.

Originally posted by slymattb
to the arigional topic. There is proof, and body who tells you different is a lie. Just dont think God is coming down on earth to smack you in your face to prove it. the bible predicts history left and right. Right now as we talk revelations predicts is happening. If you want proof ask God to show you the truth. He talk with u. Just not the way you want it. How many phrophests does it take to prove history before you start talking to God's and let him talk to you.

Sly - There is NO PROOF whatsoever that god exists and anyone who tells you different is a liar. Think on it this way, if there was so much proof why am I and others Atheists? Why are over 2 thirds of the worlds population not christian?
The bible does not predict anything with total conviction (except to the faithful).
Why do we need so called prophets to prove god exists, why doesn't god prove he exists himself (would make life that wee bit easier)?


G

Can you provide proof that a God entity does not exist?

[edit on 19-9-2006 by JSquared]

Originally posted by JSquared
Can you provide proof that a God entity does not exist?

[edit on 19-9-2006 by JSquared]

There is NO evidence that would prove for or against the existance of any deity. As the religious experience is subjective then any evidence cannot be justified.
The only way to really settle it would be for the god entity to appear to everyone and give definative proof of its existance - which has never and will never happen.

The only argument is really whether a god entity is probable? IMO the probability of there being a god entity is about as likely as the sun turning luminous purple and the rain being made of rabbit fur and time running backwards for 2 hours a day.

But then again, do you know something I dont, Can you provide evidence FOR a god entity??????


G

My point has been proven.....It is you who seek to cast judgement on someone for what they believe in...

I have stated before, my "proof" of a God entity is based on personal experience and faith....If you have neither, then so be it....

There is proof, just not what your looking for. Once you give faith, God WILL proof he's here to you. Like I said. The Bible predicts history and I am not just talking about the bible code for that is debatable.You'll never find proof cuz you dont look in the right places. When you look with even little faith what will show you Sh!t that you never believe or even understand. God'd said(OR the bible if you will) he writin his Words in your heart. You so much argue about him not living. Then why are you posting all the time. Someone deep inside you you know the truth. You just dont want to face the fact that to be under God you have to have his spirit and be good.One day God WILL show you he is here, by a event in your life. The question is will open your eyes to the matter. LOL I bet some bad thing happen to you, to get you not to believe in him. WELL GUESS WHAT BAD SH1T IS GOING TO HAPPEN, God did not creat evil, The devil did. God only let it continue so that there would be free will. For being a athiest you should study the propheices more try Danial chapter 2 read care fully. I pray that you see the light. GOD DOES ALIVE. JUST STOP BEING BLIND.

Originally posted by JSquared
My point has been proven.....It is you who seek to cast judgement on someone for what they believe in...

I have stated before, my "proof" of a God entity is based on personal experience and faith....If you have neither, then so be it....

I dont judge people for their beliefs, most of the time I just return the kind courtesy I have been given by other poster's or to point out a difference in opinion.
The fact that your proof is based on experience and belief is not proof that god exists. There may be other options for your experience, ones that you do not know of or understand or are maybe biased into dismissing, options that have no need for a god entity.
As there is a possibility of such subjectivity then your god might just be a fantasy conjoured up in your head?

G

That is why I keep asking you to provide your proof that a God does not exist...

Just because I have no proof in your eyes, does not mean that your similar lack of proof in my eyes is any more convincing...

I guess I'm just saying we can agree to disagree...you can keep trying to say all my experiences and beliefs are in my head, but it does nothing to prove your point...