President Bush to Militarize Border?

After reading the drama in this entire post, I only have three questions to ask.

1)Who coined the word "illegal"? That has always puzzled me. I suppose it fits right up there with "yellow peril", but why is this word part of the American lexicon instead of undocumented workers?

2)What will the Minutemen do now that Mr. Bush is deciding to militarize the border? It looks like they're out of work. So much for sending those donations. I guess Chris Simcox will be wandering around in that National Park near Tuscon for a while more with his gun and "unidentified documents".

[*sarcasm on*] 3)I wonder if anyone would dare call all the Russians, Irish or other Europeans that are here illegally "illegals". Well, I guess for all of you, race just isn't an issue. I am fascinated that no one is this frothed at the mouth over their place as "illegals" in American society. I wonder if these people clog up your traffic or leave trash in the street simularly. I would truly think that you are an equal opportunity "illegal basher" if you complain about any other race than the South Americans. Come on, I beg you. Put America First. Assert your full American rights and claim your sovereignity! [*sarcasm off*]

I thought not.

No wonder filmmakers make movies like Alien Nation, Gangs of New York as well as White Man's Burden. This hysteria is symptomatic of a larger issue in which people who like to throw around the word "illegals" do not want to deal with and refuse to address.







[edit on 15-5-2006 by ceci2006]

Well you all asked for it. You all wanted tighter security on the border, and many even begged for military patrols. Now you got it. And many of you are now angry about it? Hey look citizens are asking for things and they are getting it. Why do you continue to be not satisfied?

Ah, why must we keep repeating ourselves? No, seriously, I‘m getting tired of it.

Primarily addressed to Ceci2006

One, anyone in the US who has not entered though legal means is an Illegal Alien, meaning that they have broken the law. I personally don't care for PC so I will continue to call it like it is, they are Illegal Aliens, do get back down to reality soon.

Next, the Minuteman are actually doing something about the Illegal Immigration problem and they continue to have my full support. Recent statements from them indicate that they are not satisfied by the relatively small numbers of NG troops deployed, and the fact that they are there on a temporary basis. Accordingly the Minuteman have no plans to quit or stop their plans for limiting Illegal Immigration.

Also, I, like many other’s don't give a damn what nationality, color, height, weight, shoe size or eye color someone has, if they are in the US Illegally then they should al be treated and dealt with in the same way. However you have to realize that the overwhelming majority of Illegal Immigrants are Mexican and that Mexico just happens to be on our southern border. One more time, just in case you’re wondering, I’m all for Legal and regulated immigration, I am not, however, for a mass invasion of the US by million of unknown and undocumented individuals.

[edit on 15-5-2006 by WestPoint23]

I notice that you did not give a definition for the word "illegals". Nor have you said who coined the word. I figured as much.

All I have to say is if millions of illegal Europeans--like in the 19th Century and the beginning of the 20th Century began to pour all over country, would you have the same feelings you have now? Would you want to militarize the borders? Would you want to call them "illegals"?

Would you sponsor a group that specializes in staking out Ellis Island or any other port of entry to arrest those European "illegals"? Better yet, if the New Black Panther Party decided to stake out these places to arrest European "illegals" would you send money to them? Support them? Help them out?

Only then will I think that this is an equal opportunity thing. Rather than the simple targeting of one race over another.




[edit on 16-5-2006 by ceci2006]

WestPoint, why not take to calling all law-breakers 'illegals' and be done with it?

If the goal is to exclude and marginalize people with the language, then it makes no sense to stop with undocumented immigrants. This country is full of people who disregard the law (mainly because the law is often ridiculous), let's label them all 'illegals' and stigmatize them.

How would that be?

Edited for clarity

[edit on 16-5-2006 by WyrdeOne]

[edit on 16-5-2006 by WyrdeOne]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
WestPoint, why not take to calling all law-breakers 'illegals' and be done with it?

If the goal is to exclude and marginalize people with the language, then it makes no sense to stop with immigrants.

Well, murder implies unlawful, i.e., illegal. So does rapist, etc.

The word immigration does not imply illegal. It implies following a prescribed set of rules and procedures, also.

The goal is not to exclude or marginalize people with the language. Where did that come from? It's a red herring, the same as those still trying to insert the race card into this issue.

This is not about race or semantics.

Originally posed by Ceci2006
Notice you did not give an explaination for the word "illegals". I figured as much.

I said “...anyone in the US who has not entered though legal means is an Illegal Alien, meaning that they have broken the law.” What is it that you want again?

As, for the rest of you post you will find that those immigrant who came from Europe and elsewhere during the early 1900’s were Legal and they were documented, albeit poorly due to the technology that was available at the time. Point being that they were entering via the legal proceeds that we had at the time.

Like I explained previously, If millions of Europeans were to try and illegaly enter the US today I would be against it. I am against Illegal immigration, period, there are no if, ands, or buts about it, what don't you understand?

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
How would that be?

Stigmatize? You have got to be kidding. I’m merely pointing out the difference between someone who follows the laws and regulations in order to enter the US as opposed to some who does not. If you want to call a robber an illegal go right ahead, I don't care, your choice. However don't tell me I’m stigmatizing someone because I acknowledge that they broke the law.

[edit on 16-5-2006 by WestPoint23]

I asked who coined the term "illegals". I thought one of you might know since you are so fond of using such a term.


I asked if a group like the New Black Panthers sponsored rooting out illegal aliens that were of European descent if they were proven to be the ones that outnumbers any other race (hence, the logic about the South American undocumented workers), would you support them? Give money to them? And help them arrest European "illegals"?

That is my question. It is a question I have asked on two threads yet no one will give me a response. I wonder why.

My guess is no. Because it would be like arresting yourselves, wouldn't it?

Be honest. You wouldn't even think of illegal immigration if it had a White face attached to it. But with a brown face....









[edit on 16-5-2006 by ceci2006]

I would not support the New Black Panthers in any way at present because they are a blatantly racist, anti-semitic organization whose nat'l chairman attempts to aggrandize himself by spewing hate. This from Malik Zulu Shabazz; just one example of his bile:

During a protest in front of the B?nai B?rith building in Washington, D.C. (April 20, 2002), Shabazz led chants of:

"death to Israel," "the white man is the devil," and "Jihad." Shabazz also said, "Kill every goddamn Zionist in Israel! Goddamn little babies, goddamn old ladies! Blow up Zionist supermarkets!"
www.adl.org...

Even if they replaced the Minutemen in the search for "illegals"--even if they are European? That is my question.

[edit on 16-5-2006 by ceci2006]

Come on guys why would it be wrong to make borders safer? Is there some kind of business going on where the border patrol charges illegals into entering? Are we ruining somebody elses business we shouldnt? I guess not! So send whoever you want to the border everyone bickers over terrorists entering our land right? Give em what they ask for. And tell them to shuttup!

Seriously why do people even post blogs using the word ''Militarize.?''

Let the border patrol get assistance from our country why the hell not. The mexican gov obviously needs the help. Now that we secure borders all we have to worry about is getting terrorists cells that are already in the states!

It's not about that. I am actually glad that the border patrol is getting assistance.

I would just like an honest answer without skirting the issue of whether these "patriots" would support the New Black Panthers if they were the ones instead of the Minutemen targeting "illegal aliens"--even if they were of the European persuasion. That's all.

I want to see if these "patriots" are actually fair or just paying lip service.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
Seriously why do people even post blogs using the word ''Militarize.?''

I think it is because it helps to sensationalize the issue and to throw flames upon the fire.

Let the border patrol get assistance from our country why the hell not. The mexican gov obviously needs the help. Now that we secure borders all we have to worry about is getting terrorists cells that are already in the states!

Securing the borders is an absolute first step, akin to the "breathing bleeding broken" first-aid priority. But it is only the first step; there is much more work to be done.

You see. No one has the fortitude to say that their primary interest is to detain only undocumented workers from South America.

I'm not surprised that no one will answer me.

So, I will guess that the people who actually support this issue are hypocritical in their response. They will not be frank and answer that they would not hunt down European "illegals" with the same fervor as they do South American undocumented workers.

And especially, they are hypocritical in their acts because they would support an inflammatory group like the Minutemen but would not do the same for the New Black Panthers--if they ever attempted to solve the "illegal" problem by staking out the border with guns.

That's why I find the xenophobic response about this issue sad, frightening and appalling.

No one has the courage to truly admit how they feel and why they do it when they strike out at undocumented workers who happen to come from South America.



[edit on 16-5-2006 by ceci2006]

WestPoint

Stigmatize? You have got to be kidding.

When you label someone 'illegal' you stigmatize them. That's not opinion, that's fact.

For example, if you saw a truck full of people who looked Mexican, and were told they were 'illegals' being taken to detention camps, what would your feelings be? If you saw a truck full of people who looked Mexican, and were told they were 'citizens' being taken to detention camps, what would your feelings be?

There will be detention camps, so this isn't some blue-moon hypothetical, it could properly be called preparedness.

What other options are there? Many people cannot be deported, nobody will receive them. Will we be forced to illegally smuggle people back across the border? That would really be something...

My point is not that you personally are trying to stigmatize people, my point is not that you're a racist, I haven't said anything of the sort.

Originally posted by ceci2006
You see. No one has the fortitude to say that their primary interest is to detain only undocumented workers from South America.

That is because this is only your accusation, and it is unfounded.

I'm not surprised that no one will answer me.

You really shouldn't be surprised. People grow weary of being falsely accused and having to defend themselves when they have done nothing to deserve those accusations.

So, I will guess that the people who actually support this issue are hypocritical in their response. They will not be frank and answer that they would hunt down European "illegals" with the same fervor as they do South American undocumented workers.

This has been answered countless times in this thread and others. One example:

fromWestPoint23
Also, I, like many other’s don't give a damn what nationality, color, height, weight, shoe size or eye color someone has, if they are in the US Illegally then they should al be treated and dealt with in the same way.

And especially, they are hypocritical in their acts because they would support an inflammatory group like the Minutemen but would not do the same for the New Black Panthers--if they ever attempted to solve the "illegal" problem by staking out the border with guns.

Why did you not apply a similar inflammatory adjective to the NBP's? Racist or anti-semitic would have been appropriate.

Most people would drop their support for the Minutemen if the Minutemen were shown to be racial and violent. I have stated that I would not support the BPP in their present form; I cannot make it any clearer. And I refuse to assume guilt or to apologize for myself.

No one has the courage to truly admit how they feel and why they do it when they strike out at undocumented workers who happen to come from South America.

But we all know how you feel. People will stop responding to accusations and demands to prove their innocence, esp. when they've done nothing to deserve your attempts to classify them as xenophobes, racists, fascists, etc.

But the Minutemen have been shown to be racist and violent. If they weren't, the Southern Poverty Law Center or the Anti-Defamation League would not be tracking them. They would not have legal observers if they were truly above the board.

And I must question people's logic if they want to follow a man who showers with his gun.

The SPLC does have some excellent research presented, on the backgrounds of the various factions of minutemen. They have info on the founders, their careers, details surrounding allegations of ties to White Supremacy groups, lots of stuff.

I'd encourage anyone wanting to diversify their perspective to check out their information, they did their homework.

What I want to know is how is what they're going to be doing on the border any different than what they're doing in Iraq? No one wants them on the border, yet everyone seems so willing to send them off to some foreign nation and kill every moving thing, not to mention put their lives in danger. For what? A small piece of land on a continent that's filled with hate towards us? I'm sorry. I'd just as soon have them on my southern border than have them halfway around the world where I can't see or help them.

Now, it should be said that I don't want them doing either. I think it should fall on the local authorities' shoulders to do something about this. To me, this is just one more step towards a military state. I think the next thing we're going to see is some way for them to stay there. I almost expect to hear the President come out before the mid-terms and announce that "the US will be restructured into the World's First Global Empire." It's beginning to bug me a little, I'll say that much.

TheBorg

Originally posted by ceci2006
But the Minutemen have been shown to be racist and violent.

since when?! do you have proof to back up your outrageous claims?


The term "illegals" comes from wither a court ruling that describes people who gained entry into the country as ILLEGALS!!!

Stop turning this into a race issue....and if you were so concerned for these poor immigrants you wouldnt be advocating the continued exploitation of them by corporations, why do you think they prefer illegals?

they are not entitled to a minium wage, employers do not have to pay social security tax or other taxs on them.

grow a brain, think for yourself and stop spiting propaganda....

X OUT!