President Bush to Militarize Border?

Originally posted by Escrotumus
yeah i have issues because i hate sitting in traffic for 2 hours each day,

The illegal aliens make you sit in traffic for 2 hours every day?

hate seeing my town converted to spanish signs

They stole all of your English signs and replaced them with Spanish ones?

Yeah i must be a racist...seriously think before you speak.

Who said anything about you being a racist? lol pot-kettle-black (or if you prefer brown)

[edit on 5-15-2006 by Valhall]

Deport each and every one of these vile lawless illegals. Place a RFI tracker in them and DO NOT LET THEM BACK IN............ever. Put a bounty on them and good old american capitalizim will do the rest.

The jobs lost from this action can be filled with LEGAL persons............

Val, with all due respect, I dont think you fully understand the point of all of this. Illegal workers are the last of their worries (for the most part). The border patrol has been begging for some help for a while now. IMHO, it is way past time for this.

Infowars

In what can only be called a military attack, Mexican troops brandishing weapons stole contraband worth millions of dollars while holding Border Patrol agents at gunpoint.

I strongly urge you to read this link. This particular one is from infowars. There are a lot of stories and news about this subject out there. I will try to hunt them down for you to read today. One of them said there had been over 1000 deaths (murders) on the border in 2005, and it is still continuing today. Those deaths include not only American citizens, but border patroll, and a couple of FBI agents. These Mexican troops, or drug lords (they are in Mexican millitary outfits, millitary trucks fully armed with millitary weapons, but the Mexican pres. denys that it is their army) come across to our country, and kill our people. There are many stories, where they leave OUR citizens in the street to die, tied up, and missing body parts. If anyone tries to help them, they too are killed. They have taken our kids and teenagers, to put into sex rings.

I am sorry, you dont agree with the National Guard going in, but I think it is way past time, and I stand behind Bush 100% on this one.
I know, I cant believe I just said that about Bush either. But on this one, Ive gotta give credit where credit is due.


[edit on 15-5-2006 by mrsdudara]

[edit on 15-5-2006 by mrsdudara]

The Border Should be militarized in some fashion. Put Some Armoured Cavalry some infantry with helicopter support down there, give any illegals trying to get in one warning to turn around and after that fire at will. They were given a warning, so they made the decision to take the risk. We all know Vicente Fox doesnt give two #s about the border issue. As long as people are leaving for the US, the more money he can expect to get put back into his economy due to the fact that illegals send money back to Mexico. If Fox isnt willing to help with our border issue then it is he who will be taking care of all the bodies stuck on his side of the Rio Grande. If Fox wants to save the lives of those people trying to enter our country illegally, then he will take measures to prevent them from trying, because frankly I dont give a damn about anyone trying to get into my country illegally.

Originally posted by Valhall

The illegal aliens make you sit in traffic for 2 hours every day?

The population in my town has tripled in the past 5 years with no updates to infrastructure, so yes they DO cause me to sit in traffic.

Originally posted by Valhall

They stole all of your English signs and replaced them with Spanish ones?

Apparently, as most of the churches and shops now sport spanish signs and i know i didnt do it, unless i turned into Tyler Durden overnight and did it as my alterego.

Originally posted by Valhall

Who said anything about you being a racist? lol pot-kettle-black (or if you prefer brown)

In your last post you quoted, "you must have issues". The insinuation that i shouldnt have a problem with any of this and that i must be a racist was not lost on me...

I respect you for your opinion, i just dont share it because i live in the middle of the issue.

I live in the middle of West Texas, so yeah, I know a little bit about the number of illegals running around. They don't live in squalor and run rampant with crime or anything of the sort and they certainly don't cause massive traffic tie-ups. Further, if you want to examine the employment records of those terrible criminal aliens you'll find that they lied on their employment forms just to get the job and that they do pay taxes--more than they should because they never get anything back. I will agree they cause problems with the medical facilities though. Also, the social workers tend to put the people on welfare (food stamps, etc.) without doing any real checking of their status.

BTW Escrotumus just where do you live?

[edit on 15-5-2006 by Astronomer70]

This is an excellent idea. Should have been done years ago.


The National Guard are part time. They all have to do one weekend
a month PLUS a week or two of active duty training at some point in
the year. To have the National Guard spend their week or two at
the border is an excellent idea. They all do it at different times
and the can rotate.

It isn't enough ... but it's a good start.

In the mean time, get that darned WALL built. National works
projects. Just like how the highways were initially built. Puts people
to work. Pays them. Gets the job done. There are plenty of people
unemployed who could WORK on building a security wall and get paid.

I don't think Bush 43 is serious about security on the boarder, but
I still think this is a good idea. The wall and the troops should have
gotten going long ago ... Ronald Reagans time at least.

Flyers, that would have been hilarious. Fresh from tearing down one wall, he erects another.

Somehow I think that would have been a little too obviously hypocritical.

I also think that this whole thing is like a catch 22.

I believe the N.G. needs to step in, not only for the reason above, but also because the situation is boiling, and I do not want to see extremeists from either side start to take matters into their own hands.

On the other hand though, if he does millitarize the border, the illegals who are already here and cant get back, are going to panic. The ones who wont be able to get back to their families, or get their families here. Basicly, it is locking them into a country where they are staying illegally. No way out. They are going to panic. Then more tempers will rise and........sheesh, it looks like once again things are going to get worse before they get better.

I still stand firm that something has to be done though.

Here's what will probably happen. The Guard and the fence will be installed. But they will serve as regulators to hand out green cards to the would be ILLEGAls. Case solved, they are now legal and free to work anywhere without fear of deportation or arrest. Crops will be picked, hotel rooms cleaned and dishes washed, roofs re roofed, etc. All with the blessing of this WH and the businesses that hire the onetime Illegals. The weired thing is that the now legal workers will not have to pay taxes or receive minimum wage or benefits because they will be required to return to Mexico for a short time to deposit their wages properly in a Mexican bank. Simple...........

Nothing is really going to change. Business needs cheap labor and they are going to get it, thanks to the WH, who is very business friendly.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne

We'll need immigration camps, just like Mexico's got - sprawling, filthy, crowded, inhumane conditions, meant to deter as much as detain. :shk:

That's the road we're heading down if we beef up the border. I'm not saying we can't do it, I'm saying that it is only one option.

Well, that's convenient, don't we already have those?

Valhall, I'm in total agreement. This is to feed the ignorance of the masses and put an agenda out that they can follow. It is a giant football, we'll see what the man says tonight I suppose.

Businesses need cheap labor whaaa because we the consumers demand cheap prices and if American companies won't give them to us we can get them from foreign companies. The WH does not set the prices of goods & services and ultimately, neither do the businesses. We the consumers do that.

Why now? Why does BushCo suddenly feel the borders are a threat? Why didn't he do this immediately post-9/11? Wouldn't that have been a reasonable response? He's from TX for God's sake. He had to know people were crossing the border by the truckloads daily. So why not make a big show after 9/11 and make us all feel warm and cozy?

Is he doing it to appease the masses? When has Bush given two poops in a bag about what we want?

Or is this whole sudden border focus part of something else? There are rumblings that the administration is hell-bent on Iran:

Ready Or Not Here We Come

If we did attack Iran --- most especially if nukes were involved --- they would want payback and in a very big way. The most likely tactic they would have available is smuggling bombers across our borders. So, could Bush be buttoning down the hatches for an impending storm?

I don't think the two weeks a year thing would work. When the National Guard take their oath of enlistment, they swear to both the US and the governor of thier state:

I, _________________________________, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of ___________________________________ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of ________________________ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.

Why would the governor of say, Maryland, send their troops to Texas? If the Federal government makes him, then it would be a special circumstance, one that takes away from Maryland's two weeks a year of training. Two weeks a year? It would take a week to move a unit in Maryland back an forth to Texas, so that leaves you with one week.

I think those National Guard troops wouldn't see their families for a while. Between Iraq, Afghanistan, and Texas, that many deployments could retard National Guard enlistment numbers.

Originally posted by jtma508
Why does BushCo suddenly feel the borders are a threat?

He doesn't. You'd think that being from Texas he'd understand the
problem. But he doesn't. This is just a bunch of words. He hasn't
done a blasted thing to shut down the illegals. Clinton didn't either.
Neither did Bush 41. Neither did Reagan. OF COURSE Carter didn't.

No one has done anything. Except Pres Fox of Mexico. He just
keeps sending more and more because HE understands how good
it is for Mexico to keep pumping illegals over here (while at the
same time keeping Mexico's immigration laws and anti-illegal
immigrant laws exceedingly tight)

IF Bush really understood the open border threat he'd be doing a lot
more than wanting National Guardsmen to spend their 2 weeks
of active duty at the border. A lot more.

Originally posted by Astronomer70
Businesses need cheap labor whaaa because we the consumers demand cheap prices and if American companies won't give them to us we can get them from foreign companies. The WH does not set the prices of goods & services and ultimately, neither do the businesses. We the consumers do that.

A. Thanks for the information. Next time I fill up at the pump I'll tell them that Astronomer said that the consumers ultimately set the prices so I'm rolling back the price of gas to a buck thirty five. Think they will go for it? So I take it that you don't think the price of gas has anything to do with the oil men in the WH.

I'm a small business man/manufacturer and I can tell you I set the price for my work. Not based on some pointy headed economics profs' model that has never seen a day out of academic circles. Thanks for the laugh; we here in the shop need a little levity now and again.

Just a note: no muhadodos work in my shop.

[edit on 15-5-2006 by whaaa]

[edit on 15-5-2006 by whaaa]

Current unofficial polls now are favoring Bush on this action

Do you support using the United States military to secure U.S. borders?

Yes 89% 18903 votes

No 11% 2327 votes
Total: 21230 votes
Lou Dobbs

Other polls are also right around 90% in favor. No doubt those figures do not reflect the same as many on ATS, that can only mean one thing. ATS does not agree with the majority in the real world. :shk:

Originally posted by shots
Current unofficial polls now are favoring Bush on this action

Do you support using the United States military to secure U.S. borders?

Yes 89% 18903 votes

No 11% 2327 votes
Total: 21230 votes
Lou Dobbs

It's not the military assisting the border patrol I am arguing against. It is the National Guard. And the fact the administration is presenting this as some immediate emergency that requires this ludicrous stopgap measure. As if we're going to hemorrhage to death in days.

Political Football

mod edit to fix quote tags

[edit on 15-5-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Valhall is making an important distinction. The National Guard has more than enough on its plate, without being thrown into the border mess for political appeasement purposes. If troops are going to be deployed, without question it should be Army/Marines - although truly they could just as well be using civilian workers if all they're trying to do is increase monitoring of people sneaking in on foot.

If they're trying to put an armed presence on the border, then why not send the entirety of the DEA? Make them defacto border agents, they're already trained in law enforcement, and more comfortable working alongside American citizens. The armed forces aren't trained for law enforcement (most of them), they're trained for fighting, for killing, for blowing stuff up with extreme prejudice.

You don't send a bear hunting dog to do a shepherds work.

I'd estimate the DEA employs about ten thousand people. Abolish the drug war and put them to work processing immigrants. Two problems solved, and all it costs us is a grand or two for new nametags.

Originally posted by whaaa

A. Thanks for the information. Next time I fill up at the pump I'll tell them that Astronomer said that the consumers ultimately set the prices so I'm rolling back the price of gas to a buck thirty five. Think they will go for it? So I take it that you don't think the price of gas has anything to do with the oil men in the WH.

Your take is correct, I do not believe they do.

I'm a small business man/manufacturer and I can tell you I set the price for my work. Not based on some pointy headed economics profs' model that has never seen a day out of academic circles. Thanks for the laugh; we here in the shop need a little levity now and again.

Ok, why don't you set your prices (for whatever it is you produce) very, very high. That way you won't have to produce as much to make even more money. Heck, you can even cut your employees time at work down so your expense goes down and the money you spend on supplies can also be greatly reduced, since you won't need as many supplies. Of course, your customers might not like your new price and stop buying from you altogether, thus forcing you into bankruptcy. Come on, go for it--don't let the laws of supply & demand deter you.

Just a note: no muhadodos work in my shop.

Whatever, I'm happy for you.

[edit on 15-5-2006 by Astronomer70]