May 1 Protest -Will it hurt or help illegals?

Originally posted by enlightened_smurf

Uh i think that 1,200 might be a little off. My local news said 5 k Mexicans marched through a city nearby and they only have about 100 k people total. And i live in NC which has like 1/4 of the mexican population as compared to florida...

I clearly stated Florida and that is what two major networks stated. The organizers on the other hand said there were ten thousand but that off course is to be expected, obviously they would not want it to look as small as it was.

Just for the record that was at rougly noon est, the numbers could very well have gotten bigger later on.



[edit on 5/1/2006 by shots]

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by enlightened_smurf

Uh i think that 1,200 might be a little off. My local news said 5 k Mexicans marched through a city nearby and they only have about 100 k people total. And i live in NC which has like 1/4 of the mexican population as compared to florida...

I clearly stated Florida and that is what two major networks stated. The organizers on the other hand said there were ten thousand but that off course is to be expected, obviously they would not want it to look as small as it was.

Just for the record that was at rougly noon est, the numbers could very well have gotten bigger later on.



[edit on 5/1/2006 by shots]

Yea that would make more sense. When i watched my local news it was 5:30 so that prob explains the large number difference...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Are there any reports about the numbers of people that protested today or the effect it had or didn't have on anything?

Reno, Nevada reporting here.
5 to 6 thousand demonstrators.
Just traffic problems, really.
Some hispanic businesses closed.
Seems to be pretty peaceful.

If and when I hear anything regarding the economic effects, I'll post it here.

Anyone else?
Post your local circumstances.

The city i was referring to was Winston Salem, North Carolina with about 5 k mexican protestors as of 5:30 pm est.

Southern California...

~Several large avenues in Los Angeles closed down (Wishire, from downtown to La Brea).
~Lighter than normal traffic.
~There were three demonstration areas in Los Angeles, one counting somewhere in the 500,000 range, another in the 100,000, and the last about 100,000. Several areas just outside the city brought numbers in somewhere in the 10-15,000.
~Students were encouraged to join after school.
~The groups have not yet disbursed (7pm PSDT)
~Stores, except on the avenues mentioned, seemed normal. I heard one taqueria was closed this morning, but this afternoon it was open.
~The city's police department is on tactical alert, meaning that the officers can and will be kept past shift change, and that all available personnel is ready. There have been no reports of arrests, no apparent rioting, and generally a peaceful, large demonstration.

San Diego had some issues with the border, inasmuch as the border crossings were blocked - from the Mexican side - preventing people from entering the US. I don't have the numbers of their demonstration, but some coverage I caught made it seem as if it were something on the order of 100,000.

Seems as if all went according to plan. OTOH, I watched mostly local coverage, and they are very pro-immigration (as 1/2 or so of the population is hispanic in their base area; one would expect that to be their position). I don't think that it was all peaches and cream, but I am pleased the city's not on fire tonight.

Regards-
Aimless

Originally posted by donwhite

For the ultimate hospitality story, read the story of Lot. Hebrew Bible.

posted by yadboy: “This whole situation is laughable. If you come into this country illegally, you have no rights and the US doesn't owe you anything . . many of these people are hardworking, good people just trying to start a new life. But they have to come in legally and learn the language. [Edited by Don W]

This morning I heard a fellow from Bolivia say something on that topic, Yad. He said in La Paz, only the rich and professionals could get visas and that the middle class and lower class had no chance to get one legally. Another story confirmed that the US has only 5,000 visas for unskilled laborers per year.

--snip-- by yad

Discounting the Native Americans, and African Americans whose ancestors were brought here against their will, we’re all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. So don’t we help strangers? Hey, what goes around comes around!

[edit on 5/1/2006 by donwhite]

I agree with you on most of your points (I was on a bit of a rant yesterday), but the fact that some cannot legally obtain visa's on their end is out of our control. The US does need to seriously revamp it's immigration and naturalization policies. I realize it's often very difficult to come here legally and that's partly our fault. In a case where people cannot obtain a visa from the country they are leaving, they should be able to contact our government and be allowed to start the immigration process on our end without a visa from their country of origin.

I don't make the policies and I don't necessarily agree with them (Mexican or US), but until things change people need to work within the current system. I'm sorry things are so bad for these people where they come from, but this country can't have open borders in a time of war (yes the war is stupid, but it's happening) and it can't spend welfare and social services money on a large group of people, many of whom put nothing back into the economy. It's a losing proposition.

We can’t save the world, sometimes people have to save themselves.

[edit on 5/2/2006 by yadboy]

The protests in Houston had little to no turn-out >10,000 at one site far less than that at the other planned location, according to some reports, a few reports stated the crowds were over 10k at the main protest site.

I listened to an interview this morning on local radio concerning the ‘lower than expected turn-out’. In the interview, one of the organizers for the events was claiming that recent immigration raids caused persons to stay at home, rather than attend the protests. She fervently claimed that the “recent raids” had achieved the INS’s desired ends (low turn-out) and now illegal immigrants are even “more oppressed”.

Quote from the Houston Chronicle today:

“A day without legal immigrants would be a day without almost all Americans [and] a day without illegal aliens, on the other hand, would be a boon to the American taxpayer”--- U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo


mg

Originally posted by missed_gear
She fervently claimed that the “recent raids” had achieved the INS’s desired ends (low turn-out) and now illegal immigrants are even “more oppressed”.

Aah! So finally the INS can be effective in enforcing our laws. Good to know. A sigh of relief. Keep up the good work, guys. We need a new event, "365 days without illegals".

posted by missed_gear: “The protests in Houston had little to no turn-out, according to some reports. I listened to an interview on local radio concerning the ‘lower than expected turn-out’. In the interview, one of the organizers for the events was claiming that recent immigration raids caused persons to stay at home, rather than attend the protests. She claimed the “recent raids” had achieved the INS’s [renamed ICE] desired ends and now illegal immigrants are even “more oppressed.”
mg [Edited by Don W]

Uh, Texas is not known as a bastion of liberty or an example of democracy to be followed. Unless you live in Belarus. Texas has the distinction of having executed 154 persons under Gov Geo W which is in itself an American record! Unlikely to ever be duplicated. They (Bu#es) claim the DP is a “deterrent.” If that is so - it is not - then Texas has MORE deterrent than any state. I assume they have no more crime, too?

Criminalizing, especially with a felony, these people and those who provide assistance (lawyers, physicians, etc.) is absurd.

Who of you Americans are not descendant from immigrants? If you are your name must be Ten Bears or something.

What ever happend to "[G]ive us your poor, tired, huddled masses, yearning to breathe free"? My guess is that the prison industry is behind this legislation as it would provide fresh bodies and require more of our tax dollars to support these working immigrants while incarcerated. This massive drain on state and federal resources would lead to further reduction of social programs for all Americans which is what they seek. It would also direct those resources into the pockets of one of the industries which supports the goals of the corporatists.

Also, the offspring of these immigrants (who are American citizens) are likely to vote progressive or at least democrat. It's a threat to the hegemony of the corporatists. They see what's happening in Venezuela and Bolivia and they fear that the same could occur here if these 12 million (and growing) obtain the vote. I hope their fears are realized. Viva Zapata!

I am truly amazed at the lack of interest about this issue here on ATS. I expected there would be many more opinions expressed here.

Those of us who are opposed to giving automatic legal status to the illegal are being wrongly accused of a hatred of Hispanics. Utter nonsense. If I were a Mexican citizen I’d probably be tempted to do the same thing. As far as those that are just trying to have a better life they have my complete support. But how do we insure our security while accommodating them. How do we filter out the criminals from among them. This is very tough problem with no easy solution and as usual we try to sort it out by childish name calling and absurd accusations. It’s as ludicrous as a Liberal hating a Conservative just because of their differing political stances. Or visa versa. I don’t see this as an insurmountable problem if we can get past the stupid bickering, politicizing and the lies.

It also does not help that these people who have already been victimized by a criminal Mexican government and the scumbags who take advantage of them en route are again victimized by these radical anti American Hispanic hate groups. To top that off they have to deal with the neighborhood gangs, also Hispanic, who recruit their children and fill our prison systems.

I suspect the reason there is little debate about this here is a sign that their walkout was ill conceived at best. Their leadership once again took advantage of them and hurt their cause. It’s hard to have a positive reaction to someone who is here illegally waving foreign flag and demanding rights they do not have. I can understand the young and naïve among them. If they only realized they have been played for fools by a bunch of people who could care less about them.

Right now, I’d be willing to bet that our congresspersons mailbox’s are being flooded with demands they be deported and right now. This has very clearly backfired.

posted by Blaine91555
I am amazed at the lack of interest about this issue . . Those of us who oppose giving automatic legal status to the illegal are being wrongly accused of a hatred of Hispanics. Utter nonsense. [Edited by Don W]

Au Contraire. Misguided? Yes. Shortsighted? Yes. Hating? No.

“ . . how do we insure our security while accommodating them? How do we filter out the criminals from among them. This is very tough problem with no easy solution and as usual we try to sort it out by childish name calling and absurd accusations.

Good questions. On security, I take a lot of comfort in saying that in all the years of a weak border, there never has been a Mexican national (or other Latino) arrested for an act of terrorism in the United States. Not one. Which raises a side issue, assuming Osama knows about our “open” border, why has he not launched an attack via our porous borders? Do you think Osama is not interested in attacking the US in our homeland? Do you think the Oval Office has lied to us?

I don’t see this as an insurmountable problem if we can get past the stupid bickering, politicizing and the lies.

Look, B5, I don’t hire illegals. I’ll bet you don’t hire illegals. The R&Fs - Rich and Famous - do hire illegals. I don’t run the government, you don’t run the government, but the R&Fs run the government. So what gives here? Is this a phoney issue like the Iran thing? Something to take to the voters on Nov. 7? A Karl Rove superplan? So we don’t ask about health care? Or Hurricane Katrina? Or Iraq? Of the price of gasoline? Or Halliburton? Or billions stolen in Iraq?

“ . . a criminal Mexican government . . “ and are again victimized by these radical anti American Hispanic hate groups. To top that off they have to deal with the neighborhood gangs who recruit their children and fill our prison systems.

Look, let’s not get into calling the Mexican Government criminal - they might prove to us that the American Government is criminal - Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, secret prisons in Eastern Europe and etc. Who is and who is not criminal? Rendition. Arrest inside our own country, without notice and held in incommunicado. Sounds more like the old East German Government, doesn’t it? Betcha Mexico is not doing any of the above. So who is the criminal?

I suspect the reason there is little debate about this here is a sign that the walkout was ill conceived at best. Their leadership once again took advantage of them and hurt their cause.

Reminds me of Geo W.

It’s hard to have a positive reaction to someone who is here illegally waving a foreign flag and demanding rights they do not have. This has very clearly backfired.

Actually, B5, there are several places in our Constitution which uses the term “citizens” and in other places, uses the term “persons” which I’d suppose includes all human beings? Then there are the International Laws on Human Rights - everyone has those rights. And etc.


[edit on 5/2/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by MauiStacey
YES!

CS you rock! I like your ideas! Best ideas I've heard in a looooong time!

However, I would add that the ones that do want to stay should join our armed services for 4 years and serve in Iraq and the war on terrorism, then upon return, they have shown their allegiance and can become productive American citizens who are earning a LEGAL pay check.

I scrolled through some of this thread, but not all. If I repeat anything I apologize.

Thank you, MauiStacey. But guess what, being president won't fix this problem. Only being a Dictator will. (My reasons will follow.) As for some of you, what part of "ILLEGAL" don't you [people] understand?!?!?

These people come here, they break our law, and expect to be treated as US citizens. I say B.S.!

I am first and foremost, for rounding up everyone of these lawbreakers and their families and deporting them on the spot! What don't you people understand? America, the general public, has no problem with "LEGAL" immigration. It is the illegals we want out. And what of the legal ones who have done their time, gone through the process? Are we to tell them....Guess what, you wasted your time? Again B.S.!

Now as to why i say only a Dictator can solve this problem. It is simple. Our US congress is so worried about protecting their collective @$$es and staying in power, they will pander to anyone. They can't even come together on National Security. All they want to do is play politics. Well guess what? The American people (the everyday joe and jane. Who go to work, pay thier taxes, and follow the rules. Are getting PISSED OFF!!) I have made this prediction to friends, and I'm going to make it here.....

Within the next 5 to 10 years, there is going to be another Civil War. This time it is going to be against the pandering, panty waist in Govt. who will not listen to them. While a majority of my friends agree...we disagree on this. This is going to be violent, with bloodshed. And I pity those in power now, because, they are the ones the American people are going to take it out on!

I personally think it will take a Civil War, with major bloodshed in this country, for anyone in power to listen. Do I want this? NO! I wish the American people would band together and vote these idiots out of power. But that ain't gonna happen. Politics as usual are going to go on until it reaches a boiling point with the general public. Once this happens, Look Out Washington!

I am the first to admit that my posts/thoughts/ideas are extreme. Read any of my other posts and you will understand. BUT, I honestly feel that the only way to reach these career politicians is to be extreme. Their was a time when our politicians served us! Now it seems we are to serve them. And the only way I see that happening is for the people to rise up and take control, any way they can.

Now for as extreme as most of my views may be, I do believe that violence should be used as a last resort. I'm not advocating it or promoting it, but given the past results of our politicians, I predict it may be our only hope.

I would much rather see a 3rd party, of true Americans come into power, and use the system. But the 2 parties will never let that happen. This is the only thing they can agree on. To not let someone else take their power. But guess what? Polls show that if a 3rd party candidate, where willing to go to the extremes to stop illegal immigration...THEY WOULD WIN!!

There are both democrats and republicans who feel this way. Both who are unhappy with the approach their leaders have taken.

Excuse the pun of my name, but what if a 3rd party of Common Sense showed up. A party with no politics, or agendas. But a party who is willing to listen to the people. Not special interests, not lobbyists, and especially not the 2 parties leaders. This party would actually represent the public. NO ONE ELSE! They would solve the problems with common sense. Why would they do this??...

1) They would be paid on (as Hollywood says) a pay or play basis. Do the job we sent you to do, or do not get paid.

2) They would have term limits. I;m thinking 2 terms. If they can't accomplish this in that time. They need to go!!!

3) This is the most important. Have a national referendum, as to they did the job they were put into office to do. FAIL..you do not get paid.

4) Return the Senate to it's original stature, of being chosen by the states. (The current body is to politicized and incompetant. What could it hurt?)

5) Get rid of the IRS and impose the Fair Tax Plan. After they exemptions to the poverty level, everyone is taxed the same. You pay on what you buy. And guess what, all you Liberals...The rich will pay the most, as they buy the most.

6) Once all ILLEGALS are gone, again, make the able bodied people on Govt. entitlements work those jobs. "CONTINUED"



[Mod Edit: Please refrain from insulting other members, thank you.]

[edit on 2006-5-2 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by seattlelaw
What ever happend to "[G]ive us your poor, tired, huddled masses, yearning to breathe free"?

Now the sign reads "No Vacancy". (that's from a movie but I can't remember which one...) This whole thing's a sticky situation with no easy answer. You've got one group that wants to deport all illegals, and another that wants free citizenship for all comers (and many shades in-between). I think we really need to secure our borders first, and worry about the illegals already here later. The fact of the matter is that it's not feasible to deport all illegals (unless the powers in charge want a race war), reguardless of the how anyone feels about it. But on the other hand, what message does automatic citizenship for all illegals send to the people thinking about heading across the border tomorrow, or next week. There's no easy answers, but the political fatcats need to start making some hard decisions, and soon. This issue is a festering wound, and will only get worse.

once all that money on Welfare is saved. Think of that. We will have Billions of dollars to do with.

7) With Welfare money saved, and some of these people will be off of Medicare and Medicade. Maybe then we can start paying down the national debt.

8) Also we need to cut out all "Pork" in the govt. Is this easy? NO! But there is an easy solution to this. But getting Congress to do this...well you might as well put on blue tights and a red cape and try to fly. You will probably succed before Congress does...

But the solution is..."1" item per bill. This way, Congress will have to vote on each and every item that comes before them. While I;m willing to bet this won't be perfect. I guarentee they will learn quickly to work fast and get legislation passed. Having to vote on each and everything they do...

1) Most importantly is making them do the job WE (The people) sent them there to do.

2) Will keep the most trivial matters out of Govt.

Now I will admit, I have a better chance of winning the lottery than this happening. It is what needs to be done. And, maybe when the people finally stand up...this will be added to the Constitution, or the one that replaces it!!


9) This probably should have come earlier, (But give me a break here. I'm trying to introduce Common Sense into the Govt) Judges will no longer be able to Legislate from the bench. Whether it be Right wing or Left wing, Judges will only be able to interperate the law as written. If the law aas written does not meet their criteria, then it is to be sent back to the legislature. If the legislature believes that the law is constitutional, then they are the ones...(Who have the Constitutional power to oversee the Judical branch of Govt.) To either adjust it, or make it a Constitutional ammendment.

10) On the subject of the Judiciary...While I am a firm believer in the ORIGINAL intent of the Constitution. Here is one place I am willing to let it be a living, breathing document. At the passing of the orginal Constitution, those in the judiciary were the best of the best. They were the smartest of the people. Well today this has changed. With the Internet and all the so called News Outlets. The general public is informed. And if they are not, it is only their fault. ....

Judges should NO LONGER BE APPOINTED FOR LIFE! Judges should be held to the same terms as the Executive and Legislative Branches. Judges...all of them, should be issued term limits. The PEOPLE have ways of finding out what is going on, whether it be to the right or the left. Appointing people for life is no longer practical. The pendulumn(sp) can change at anytime. Maybe the Supreme Court should be appointend for life, but I'm not even sure of this. If this should be true, then they are the only ones. Otherwise, all Judges should have to be re-elected to their posts.

These are MY thoughts. Any input is greatly Appreciated.

Originally posted by yadboy
There's no easy answers, but the political fatcats need to start making some hard decisions, and soon. This issue is a festering wound, and will only get worse.

I disagree in part with what you said. Yes there is an easy answer/solution. Enforce our laws by deporting as many as we can. Immediately place hundreds if not thousands of national guard troops on the border. Then follow that with immediately building a fence that will keep them from coming back. Also make it a felony to be here illegally, that way local police can arrest them. As it is now from what I have read it is impossible for local police to get involved because it is not a felony. It is in Mexico but not here, hmmm that alone tells us a lot doesn't it?

In addition it should be a felony to hire illegals and have illegals working for you. In other words make those that hire them think twice before hiring an employing them.

The hardest part would be deporting them, other then that the other solutions would have a dramatic effect immediately.

No sooner did I post my last reply and then I found this story.



Kind of makes me wonder if some of them are reading my mind or perhaps my posts

South Carolina here, I know Ive been watching the activity here as we have quite a large amount of illegals here. And yesterday and today they have been just like business as usual, Walmart where I am at had a steady stream , no protests just buying as they normally do. Now I cant speak on what went on in the larger cities, but here it was like nothing was going on.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Having said that, IMHO, virtually all of Senate, the House, and the current administration should be voted out, one and all, and 'we' should elect in their place some people who have real and viable solutions, who are not into partisan or bi-partisan power plays, who are not afriad to make the hard decisions that place the interests of the American people at heart and the security of this nation first.
seekerof

You have voted Seekerof for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Many of our elected officials are, it's sad to say, self-serving.

So many officials are afraid to step on anyones toes and then you have the general public anxious to find fault and point fingers.

Our nation is turning into a nation of complainers and whiners.

It's just to easy to point fingers and lay blame on the other person when in reality "We the people" should be forwarding ideas for solutions to the people we elect.

Just as I pointed out about most politicians being self serving, their egos and greed get in the way of making thre right decisions.

And then they may be incapable of making any right decisions.

If it were left up to me to make these decisions, I'd send all the illegals to a concentration camp in an undisclosed location and make them work in factories(yes, built by tax-payers money) that would somehow benefit the American homeless and underprivileged.

This way, the some $20 billion odd dollars/year would stay in the United States and not end up in Mexicos economy.

El presidente Vincente Fox needs to be removed from power. He is the #1 reason for the influx in illegal immigrants in the past few years.

donwhite,

You read a lot into my post that was not intended. If you read it again without the bias you will find we are not that far apart. FYI - I am not a Republican or a Democrat. What’s the difference other than which lie(s) they have chosen to believe?

As to whether or not the Mexican government is criminal? To them I suppose they are not since they make the laws. I look at it this way. Millions of decent hardworking Mexicans have risked everything including their lives to get here. Why? Because Mexico is such a wonderfully managed place? Mexico is rich in natural resources and manpower. Their tourist trade is next to none. So, why are they living in such poverty they risk the trip across the border? Good leadership? I probably should have used the word "incompetent" as it may fit better. Another good question is why is the Mexican government so gung ho about helping its own citizens flee. Something smells to high heaven about that.

Even with our problems this is still a great nation. The only solution to our problems is honesty and hard work. The same qualities that made us what we are as a nation. We can sit back and whine about who said and did what forever and accomplish nothing. Or we can get off our collective duffs and vote the bums out of office and find real leaders to guide us. The first thing we have got to do is stop empowering the extremists on both sides of the aisle by fighting amongst ourselves.

Why has OBL not taken advantage of the open border? Good question. Perhaps to divide us and wait until we are not expecting an attack?


[edit on 2-5-2006 by Blaine91555]