Islamic Injustice on ATS

Originally posted by QuietSoul


You guys need to understand that Islam isn't a Religion of Terror, its Terror using the religion of Islam. Please understand the difference guys. The anti-islamic lean to this forum is getting sickening offensive.

I fully understand and i applaud you for saying so. I wish it would get thru the thick skull of some.

Originally posted by nazgarn
I agree with you but...


Please think of another religion that uses primarily violence to get their point across to 'convert' the masses?

Peace,
- Naz

Remember the Crusades?

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by mrwupy]

Originally posted by iqonx
In asian muslim countries they have had muslim female presidents like pakistan had a female president and so did malaysia and indonesia.

Eh? That's not right... Malaysia hasn't had a female Prime Minister, yet. But it certainly is possible. Our trade & finance minister is female and so is the governor of our central bank. Both very strong, very competent muslim ladies.

Just so you know

But, other than that, your post has everything I would have written. Except less lines per paragraphs... I like to write 2-3 sentences per paragraph -- makes it look neater and easier to read

Originally posted by QuietSoul
Islam isn't a Religion of Terror, its Terror using the religion of Islam.

Please understand the difference guys.

The anti-islamic lean to this forum is getting sickening offensive.

- Very nicely put QS.

Way above.

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by iqonx
In asian muslim countries they have had muslim female presidents like pakistan had a female president and so did malaysia and indonesia.

Eh? That's not right... Malaysia hasn't had a female Prime Minister, yet. But it certainly is possible. Our trade & finance minister is female and so is the governor of our central bank. Both very strong, very competent muslim ladies.

Just so you know

But, other than that, your post has everything I would have written. Except less lines per paragraphs... I like to write 2-3 sentences per paragraph -- makes it look neater and easier to read

He might have meant the philippines instead of Malaysia

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by mrwupy]

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by iqonx
In asian muslim countries they have had muslim female presidents like pakistan had a female president and so did malaysia and indonesia.

Eh? That's not right... Malaysia hasn't had a female Prime Minister, yet. But it certainly is possible. Our trade & finance minister is female and so is the governor of our central bank. Both very strong, very competent muslim ladies.

Just so you know

But, other than that, your post has everything I would have written. Except less lines per paragraphs... I like to write 2-3 sentences per paragraph -- makes it look neater and easier to read

you're right. i dont know why i put down malasyia there? anyway thanks for piointing that out.

Originally posted by Mdv2
He might have meant the philippines instead of Malaysia

But the Philippines is not a muslim country -- it's predominantly Catholic. People seem to make that mistake a lot, that is, thinking the Philippines is a muslim country.

Yeah, sure, they've got Abu Sayaff muslim TERRORISTS in the southern part of the country wanting independence from Manila. The US is helping them crush the separatists, I think.

But then Indonesia had East Timor rebels to deal with some years back (notice that there is no mention of their religion, which is Catholic if anyone is interested). Well, what happened to them? International pressure forced Indonesia to give those freedom fighters (who also resorted to 'terrorist-style' tactics -- do a Google search on "east timor rebels") their independence.

How lovely for them. Why is there no 'international pressure' for Mindanao's (southern Philippines) cause? What about Aceh? Oh, hell no. Those are crazy muslim terrorists

Gotta love the way things are spun, just plain old rebels and freedom fighters here, nasty muslim terrorists and separatists there. What's next? Sectarian violence instead of civil war? Oh wait, they're already using that...doublespeak at it's finest.

The problem is not Islam, it is the sick, twisted leaders who teach Muslims to hate and try to kill all westerners and jewish people.

If these people were to actually FOLLOW the Koran, they could not do all the murdering and terrorists acts that are done by Muslims all across the world.

That said, i also feel people are responsible for what they do or don't do. That is to say, if someone says, hey lets go murder some innocent people, everyone is expected to say NO!

I somehow do not se this discrimination against MUslim people on this forum. The only source of conflict is more of an East vs West debate. The fact that many of the 'hostile' countries are Muslim is just a coincidence.

Infact I think Christians are discriminated against.. In a forum someone can openly attack Christians or try and disprove their views.. I have not seen this done to Islam.. But why?? Would it be classed as wrong to attack Muslims yet openly debate against Christians?

[Note: Oh and I would like to state that i'm not religious so i'm not being overly biased in my views]

I completely agree with the posters views. Many people think all Muslims are terrorists and dangerous etc.
I am not muslim but all of my friends who are completely hate terrorism and they always say that the religion these "Muslim" terrorists follow isn't Islam.

My friend asked me how could any religion reward the murder of innocent lives? He also says that the terrorists twist the teachings of Islam and use it as an excuse for their actions.

I also agree with what is being said about stopping it. The Islamic faith leaders have to publicly be seen denouncing anyone using Islam as an excuse to murder.

Originally posted by shire19
But this won't change anything, it might show the rest of the world that Muslims do care and are against Terrorism but in the end these terrorists will keep on going and millions of Muslims protesting tommorow will not stop them from commiting their acts.

First, your numbers are way wrong, millions ??Dont think so!

Second what makes you think that it wont make them stop? Have you tried it for a generation and analyzed its results over that period? Are your trying to say that your religious leaders are incompetent and hold no sway over your religion or are you trying to say that your religion is beseiged by fundamentalists and you cant do anything about it ?
Its not important to run around town with a placard and shouting down the same platitudes, dont try to put on a show for non-muslims. Instead focus your energies on community awareness, develop a sincire effort to cull anti-western and anti-social attitudes in Moslem society which I can say with confidence are more rampant than in any other faith on this planet. Especially in the west.
Your aim shouldnt be trying to prove something to everybody else, everybody will believe what your intentions are with the results you obtain. Preaching that Islam is all about peace on one side while we have mullah's on the other ralling mobs against the west on the other does fool anyone !

I can show you pictures of protests from Morrocco to Bahrain to Bangladesh to Norway to Britain of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Muslims protesting against Terror.

And I can show picture of terrorist activites from Morrocco to Bahrain to Bangladesh to Britain. Whats your point ? You have been protesting and its useless, so try something different. Dont put up a dog and pony show to impress the rest of us with your professions of peace, acheive results or face criticism and government oversight into your communites.
If your "peace programmes" have been going on before 9/11 then how come there were so many teenage boys who spent their whole lives in Briton, blowing themselves up in the TUBE ?

Originally posted by IAF101
First, your numbers are way wrong, millions ??Dont think so!

Second what makes you think that it wont make them stop? Have you tried it for a generation and analyzed its results over that period? Are your trying to say that your religious leaders are incompetent and hold no sway over your religion or are you trying to say that your religion is beseiged by fundamentalists and you cant do anything about it ?
Its not important to run around town with a placard and shouting down the same platitudes, dont try to put on a show for non-muslims. Instead focus your energies on community awareness, develop a sincire effort to cull anti-western and anti-social attitudes in Moslem society which I can say with confidence are more rampant than in any other faith on this planet. Especially in the west.
Your aim shouldnt be trying to prove something to everybody else, everybody will believe what your intentions are with the results you obtain. Preaching that Islam is all about peace on one side while we have mullah's on the other ralling mobs against the west on the other does fool anyone !

I probally exaggerated about the "millions" part but hundreds of thousands nonetheless.

The reason I believe protesting in such numbers won't stop terrorism is simply because these terrorists fight for a cause that they believe to be justified and convicing them of otherwise by simply protesting won't be enough. Take the Iraq war protests for example, it's said '36 million people' across the globe took part in almost '3,000' protests but that hardly stopped the war on Iraq.

I also believe Muslims across the globe wheter in small numbers or otherwise are trying to sway young muslims from turning into radicals, you only have to type into google "Muslims against terrorism" to see the results.. There have been conferences by alot Islamic leaders in Asia to find ways to end terrorism in their countries but this again does not always end up being succesfull. Some Muslims are so brainwashed or see the wrong-doing in certain parts of the world that they're anger will make them turn to radicalism and start comitting acts of terrorism and still believe it's justified.

Originally posted by IAF101
And I can show picture of terrorist activites from Morrocco to Bahrain to Bangladesh to Britain. Whats your point ? You have been protesting and its useless, so try something different. Dont put up a dog and pony show to impress the rest of us with your professions of peace, acheive results or face criticism and government oversight into your communites.
If your "peace programmes" have been going on before 9/11 then how come there were so many teenage boys who spent their whole lives in Briton, blowing themselves up in the TUBE ?

You know terrorism especially Islamic terror doesnt just pop his head out of nowhere for no particular reason, it takes two to tango.
And like I said above some will turn to radicalism because they will turn it into an eye for an eye issue where they will commit acts of terrorism against western nations in retaliation of what they perceive to be acts of terrorism against the Muslims in the middle-east.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by shire19]

Originally posted by QuietSoul
I'm not Islamic, but if an entire forum was dedicated to the actions of a sect of terrorists using the religion of christianity for evil, then I'd hope you would all understand the religion of Christianity isn't backing up the sects.

But that's the point, Christians don't use their religion in the name of terror, at least not since medieval times - which is a perfect analogy to the level of social evolution that Muslim states have attained in the present day.

Even if you give them a "pass" on the use of Islam to support terror, how can you ignore the pure evil that is Sharia law (spelling?) or the way that the religion treats women as servile functionaries.

Islam is one of the World's most clearly defined forms of evil, to try and play the PC card so that we can all have a nice big group hug is just soooooo Neville Chamberlain.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by Winchester Ranger T]

for people that want to learn more about islam or want to talk and ask questions to other muslims please visit both the links in my SIG

Quran quotes and the islamic site/forum

Originally posted by iqonx
In pakistan they have a female airforce pilots for the PAF(pakistani air force) in these countries women can vote, work, own property etc.... just like women in every other country.

Well, i'll agree that Pakistan is "better off" than Saudi Arabia, it would be incredulous to say that women in pakistan enjoy the same rights as women in every other country.
Are you not aware that in Pakistan as in most moslem nations, a woman legal standing is worth half of a man. That is 2 women would be equall to one male witness ?Being a half witness a pakistani woman cannot even testify against the crimes commited against her! Women rarely if ever have a chance to decide their futures due to the restrictions put forth by her male "guardians". Have you heard of pakistani women being killed for honor. In fact there is a law that reduces sentences for crimes involving honor killings! Suprisingly though these "laws" are not in practise in Pakistans closest non-islamic neighbour India, which to my suprise has more moslems than pakistan itself !!
You find my assertions absurd ? Read a pakistani womans perspective about the issue.
Women of Pakistan

today what the middle east has is neither true islam and neither true arab nationalist movements but has a hybrid of both which is arab islamic nationalism which is why the arabs do alot of weird things which contradict islam and still have there dictators and monarchs which incidently are actually illegle to have under islamic law

Its funny, you say that the what the arabs follow isnt true islam because they say what the rest of the non-arab moslem nations follow is not islam as well. For instance, alcohol is strictly banned in Islam but is freely available in nations like Turkey, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. Also the distinction of the hijab which is compulsory in Islamic society is not mandatory in nations like Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia etc. All these and many other contradiction to basic islam values are what the Arabs see as perversions of Islam that they do not allow.

I'm not going to pick a side but whats the point in claiming that one side or the other is not the "true" islam when you have terrorists roaming the streets of both Bagdad and Karachi shouting jihad ? There are common threads in both side, be it arab or non-arab moslem nations, threads of subjugation, violence and intolerance. Its about time, all the moslems realize that the buck stops here !
PAKISTAN, JIHAD AND ETHNICITY

[edit on 16-4-2006 by IAF101]

Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T

Originally posted by QuietSoul
I'm not Islamic, but if an entire forum was dedicated to the actions of a sect of terrorists using the religion of christianity for evil, then I'd hope you would all understand the religion of Christianity isn't backing up the sects.

But that's the point, Christians don't use their religion in the name of terror.

Get it now ?

yeah they do. The IRA and KKK both used the name of christianity to kill others. The IRA killed rival christians in N.Ireland and not just IRA there where also other christian groups killings other christians in N.Ireland in the name of christianity. Even KKK is christian and they have racist views against minority groups and have a history of murder and violence although today the violence has almost disapeard.

That's incorrect Winchester.

There are Christian militias in Africa, operating right now, that use terrorism and the teachings of the bible (obviously taken out of context and misrepresented) to spread their influence.

Child soldiers, kept obedient using rape and other forms of abuse.

You've got no argument, if you're trying to convince people 'your side' is innocent, while the 'other side' is guilty. All humans are susceptible to the same vices, marred by the same flaws.

Your bias simply prevents you from seeing the taint in your own well.

So, do you want to make this thread about Christian equivalents to Extremist Muslim terrorists? There are plenty of those threads already, aren't there?

So how about we talk, instead, about ways to mitigate the climate of ignorance and fear that some feel has taken over rational discussion on the subject of Islam, terrorism, and religious extremism in general.

I think ATS does a pretty good job of mitigating the damage caused by an ignorant few. That's just my opinion, but the simple fact that we recieve tons of complaints from both sides of the aisle seems to signify, to me at least, that some measure of fairness is hardwired.

Simply put, if you can't discuss the issues without resorting to personal attacks and broad-brush condemnations of whatever group, maybe ATS isn't the best community to join - and the rules don't care if you're a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim. The staff do their best, while trying to avoid the appearance of being heavy-handed.

The situation in Ireland was tantamount to ethnic genocide, they weren't killing BECAUSE of religion, they were using religion as an ethnic identifier in a civil war, just as with the Balkans conflict and Chechnya, and of course let's not forget the Shi'ites killing their fellow Sunni Muslims - civil war again between rival factions, big difference. Also, the KKK kill based on grounds of race, not religion, i.e. they are quite happy to kill black Christians.

Muslims are waging war outside of their own nations based on a hatred of Christianity and Western freedoms, this is a global conflict based on religious values - and yes, Bush doesn't exactly help in that regard either.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
That's incorrect Winchester.

There are Christian militias in Africa, operating right now, that use terrorism and the teachings of the bible (obviously taken out of context and misrepresented) to spread their influence.

Name one and provide a link.

Originally posted by dgtempe
The anti-islamic lean to this forum is getting sickening offensive.

Much like the anti-Americanism that runs rampant on this board, as well?

There are no more Islamic Injustices on this board as their are anti-Zionists, racists, anti-French, anti-American, etc., etc. injustices.

Seems to me its a matter of political correctness and perspective...all along tha same lines as "another man's "terrorist" is another man's freedom fighter or martyr," etc.




seekerof

[edit on 16-4-2006 by Seekerof]