Islamic Injustice on ATS

This thread has somewhat of a religious slant to it, but I want it directed at the entire WoT community.

"Properly understanding yourself is required before properly understanding others."

You guys need to understand that Islam isn't a Religion of Terror, its Terror using the religion of Islam. Please understand the difference guys. The anti-islamic lean to this forum is getting sickening offensive.

I'm not Islamic, but if an entire forum was dedicated to the actions of a sect of terrorists using the religion of christianity for evil, then I'd hope you would all understand the religion of Christianity isn't backing up the sects.

I live in a community with quite a lot of muslim, of course I know the Islam isn't a terror religion.

However, there's one big problem occuring. Do you remember the Danish cartoons, which caused such an exaggerated protest among the muslim community. It was a Danish-Muslim Imam whom especially travelled to several Arab countries, with the purpose to increase the anti-western feelings among the muslim communities. (the cartoons had been published months before it really became an issue)


What was the reaction towards the cartoons? Spiritually burning flags (it's seems it has become a normal muslim ritual nowadays), damaging of foreign consulates, and not only Danish properties.

Let's take an opposite example. With regard to the Danish cartoons. A Iranian newspaper held a contest, which was about drawing the best holocaust cartoon. Some were quite insulting, such as the Dutch jewish girl Anne Frank sleeping with Adolf Hitler.


What was the Western and Jewish response to this? We accepted this, even though most of us didn't like it, however no violent issues against muslims or their properties.

In my opinion most muslims are just too easily offended. They'd rather protest against terror and say: ''we don't want this'' instead of demonstrating against some stupid cartoons.

The moral of this story is that Muslims place theirselves in such a position, they should actively fight against terrorism and stop supporting it. I know enough muslims are against terrorism, but there's certainly another very big group supporting it. Generalizing has become an easy thing these days.

I think most reasonable people on these forums know that Islam is not the Doctrine of Terror that some idiots think it is or that some maniacs use it as. I think the realize that most Muslims are peaceful people with integrity. Islam is fine tradition and just as believable as Christianity if you're into the whole religion thing...

Certainly not all Islamic people are terrorists nor would ever kill innocent life. But there is someting in the religion, culture, and/or history of majority Muslim peoples that cause an inordinate above average number of people amonst their ranks to carry out suc dastardly deeds like 9/11, 7/7, etc.

The root causes of why this is happening is something that should be explored intelligently and throughly from all angles, including the teachings of Koran, other Islamic texts, and their religious leaders.

[edit on 4/16/2006 by djohnsto77]

The way I view this issue is in one of the primary differences between the Christian and Muslim religions.

In Christianity, there seems to be an overarching 'head honcho'. The Catholics have the Pope for example. This gives something resembling a 'top down' approach to religious doctrine and allows the 'final word' on issues to be declared.

However, Islam (to my knowledge and please correct me if I am wrong) does not have such a figurehead. This gives rise to a fragmented approach where different Immams are able to push their own agenda's. Many of these are sincere and simply want to practice their religion peacefully and in pro-social ways. However, it also allows more radical Immams to preach their own agenda's. The bottom line is that there is no 'official party line' so that each Immam can interpret the Koran in such a way that it suits their particular agenda. The Finsbury Park mosque in London was such an example.

Originally posted by 5ick8oy
The way I view this issue is in one of the primary differences between the Christian and Muslim religions.

In Christianity, there seems to be an overarching 'head honcho'. The Catholics have the Pope for example. This gives something resembling a 'top down' approach to religious doctrine and allows the 'final word' on issues to be declared.

That's true for the Roman Catholic Church and the Church of England but most protestant faiths are quite fractured with little central authority.

Let me just say that, if you want more people to see your faith in better light it has to stand up and act against its own people. The mullah's, the imams etc all have to stand up and vehemently criticise these proponents. The civilised values of negotiation, rule of law, value of human life and above all tolerance for other faiths is a must.

You shouldnt ask other people to change, there is a problem with a group of people in your religion, you should start by asking them to change and embrace peace and the way of the prophet before you ask all Westerners to not criticise Islam. You cant bear the criticism what makes you think the West will happily bear the deaths of its citizens ?

I tired of listening to the same platitudes, "Islam is not a relgion of terror" etc, why dont you tell that to the jihadis and the al-Qaeda terrorists ?? Why dont you teach that in the madrassas and in your Friday prayers to all your people ?? Why dont you hand over those muslims that are involved in such activites of spreading such propaganda to the police ???

Dont ask others to change when you refuse to change yourselves !

Exactly! show us you dont support these people and are willing to fight them, after all arent they degrading everything you believe?

you hav eo earn respect and tolerance......and it is a two way street, so until I see some muslims taking a more active stand, be prepared to be clowned on.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Exactly! show us you dont support these people and are willing to fight them, after all arent they degrading everything you believe?

you hav eo earn respect and tolerance......and it is a two way street, so until I see some muslims taking a more active stand, be prepared to be clowned on.

Muslims have been taking a stand ever since the attacks on the WTC buildings, maybe even before that. We have since then seen the condemnation of terrorism by millions of Muslims wheter Scholars, Imams, Presidents or hundreds of thousands protesting against Al-Qeada and terrorism as a whole.

But this won't change anything, it might show the rest of the world that Muslims do care and are against Terrorism but in the end these terrorists will keep on going and millions of Muslims protesting tommorow will not stop them from commiting their acts.

I can show you pictures of protests from Morrocco to Bahrain to Bangladesh to Norway to Britain of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Muslims protesting against Terror. Most of them never made the news (west).

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

you hav eo earn respect and tolerance......and it is a two way street, so until I see some muslims taking a more active stand, be prepared to be clowned on.

And what exactly have we done to earn the respect and tolerance of muslims? Come to think of it... what have we done to earn the respect of ANYONE? The only reason other nations even associate with us is out of fear and that is a far cry from respect. The rest of the world "respects" us like one might respect a schoolyard bully.

and why exactly should we show muslims any respect or tolerance, especially given they seem to hate the west and jews.


So respect and tolerance for muslims: DENIED!

[edit on 16-4-2006 by XphilesPhan]

I apologize, but my negative view of Islam is not likely to change, except for the worse.

My contention is that Islam will never allow itself to coexist with other religions peacefully. The tenets and rules of Islam, the way they treat women, and the insanity of using the rantings of a 6th century Barbarian Bandit to try to govern modern nations is so diametrically opposed to every value, freedom, and ideal of western civilization, that they must fight us. To not oppose Western Civilization is the death of irrational Islam and I imagine their leaders know this and fear it almost as much as they fear to give women power in their societies.

I believe Islam is a religion of slavery (women), war (everyone who isn't islamic), and intolorance (Israel). I have seen nothing from the much talked about, but mostly silent "Islamic Moderates" to change this view.

As for "Islamic injustice" on ATS, I guess you need to grow some thicker skin. Get some backbone, or is Islam's confidence in it's own dogma and rightness so weak that it can't stand a little criticism? The US gets bashed on ATS much more than Islam does and although we Americans don't always like to see it, we know that it just comes with the territory of living in a theoretically free society.

The anti-islamic lean to this forum is getting sickening offensive.

Who promised you the right not to be offended? Anyway, things said about Islam should offend you only if you believe they are true and if you have nothing with which to dispute the offending viewpoint.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
and why exactly should we show muslims any respect or tolerance, especially given they seem to hate the west and jews.


So respect and tolerance for muslims: DENIED!

[edit on 16-4-2006 by XphilesPhan]

Muslims aren't born with somekind of chip to automatically hate Jews and the West you know.. Generalizing is what causing all this mess these days anyway, people view Muslims as all the same even though there are black, white, yellow, brown etc Muslims that all adopted a different kind of culture and have their own views towards the West and Jews..

Yes there are some parts in the world where Muslims despise Jews and the West but this does not mean all Muslims do. And in most of those parts they are limited to view certain windows and thus their knowledge is limited unforunatly.

What I don't understand is why Islam is the big focus. There are WACKOS like Pat Robertson in all religions, not just Islam. Guys like Jerry Falwell and his followers scare me, and sicken me, JUST AS MUCH as any Osama Bin Diversion that the U.S. government or media tries to shove in my face.

Why is Islam the next big threat? The extreme Christian right will drive this country into the ground LONG before any kalashnikov-carrying thug from Saudi Arabia ever gets the chance.

Originally posted by firebat
What I don't understand is why Islam is the big focus. There are WACKOS like Pat Robertson in all religions, not just Islam. Guys like Jerry Falwell and his followers scare me, and sicken me, JUST AS MUCH as any Osama Bin Diversion that the U.S. government or media tries to shove in my face.

Why is Islam the next big threat? The extreme Christian right will drive this country into the ground LONG before any kalashnikov-carrying thug from Saudi Arabia ever gets the chance.

I would agree with you about Christianity, but for some very big differences. First, Pat Robertson's interpetation of "the word of God" doesn't then become the law of the land. Christians don't run the country or make the rules, as much as they might like to or imagine that they do. Christianity, for all it's faults, for the most part has evolved and come to grips with the realities of existing in secular societies. Islam refuses to do this. Second, I don't see Christians running around the world today purposely targeting innocents and making war on everyone who doesn't believe as they do. Surely Christians have their share of horrible and evil deeds done in their history, but I don't see that stuff happening today, in the 21st Century.

BTW, I'm not a Christian. I don't even like Christians, nor do I believe any of their myths, but you cannot compare them to Muslims in this regard.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
I believe Islam is a religion of slavery (women), war (everyone who isn't islamic), and intolorance (Israel). I have seen nothing from the much talked about, but mostly silent "Islamic Moderates" to change this view.

Don't judge islam by what arabs do. Arabs only make up about 13-15% of the world population of islam. No offence to arabs. In asian muslim countries they have had muslim female presidents like pakistan had a female president and so did malaysia and indonesia. In pakistan they have a female airforce pilots for the PAF(pakistani air force) in these countries women can vote, work, own property etc.... just like women in every other country. But muslim women can't do some of these things in arab countries like vote or drive cars in saudi arabia etc...

ofcourse asian muslim countries have problems not becuase they are muslims but becuase they are 3rd world like pakistan has many problems but interestinly enough the problems women face in pakistan are similar to those in India why is this? becuase they both share things such as culture which spills into the religon. What alot of muslims need is deeper understanding of the quran so they relaise on there own what is wrong and what is not that way they don't need an imam to give them this interpretation of islam.

Alot of the sterotypes that people have of muslims interestingly enough comes from the middle east. For example people assume muslim women can't vote but muslim women always have been voting for leaders for example even in the middle east women have been voting for leaders even before america was created, muslim women actually lost the right to vote in the middle east not becuase of islam which actually sported the right of women to participate in the chosing of the leader/caliphate but the right to choose/vote was lost becuase of the arab secular nationalist movements in the early 1900's. please read up on this and realise alot of the problems women face in the middle east are/where not a result of islam but of the arab nationalist movements in the early 1900's. today what the middle east has is neither true islam and neither true arab nationalist movements but has a hybrid of both which is arab islamic nationalism which is why the arabs do alot of weird things which contradict islam and still have there dictators and monarchs which incidently are actually illegle to have under islamic law becuase the only leadership a muslim country is allowed to have is supposed to be islamic caliphate(

Good logical replies to this thread, my viewpoint is that of most of the replies here.
Do we judge the religion by the words in its books or the actions of it's people?
Do we judge it by the actions of its people in the past or the present?
Christianity is guilty of as much as islam is in the past, and its book is in some parts as offensive as the koran.
The difference is in the actions of islamic people today, perhaps christianity could have evolved in the same way, but evolution has been kind to it and it has evolved into something more acceptable today.
I think islam is a good example of what we were like in the past. They just haven't caught up yet.

And so from the question of there being Islamic Injustice on ATS, the response so far would indicate a resounding 'YES'- Islamic injustice and ignorance is breeding at a fast pace at ATS. Such a shame the ignorant minority have such a mouthpeice for their tripe.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by paranoia]

You are all right, and you are all wrong.
It's always been about one thing, and one thing only. Religion, beliefs, God(s) have been placed there, as an excuse, not as the reason.
Go back, as far as you can to the first recorded history (and the theories we have about cultures with no recorded history) you will always find a common element in the fall of that country, culture, civilization.
Anyone guessed yet?

We're different. It's that simple. It's always been about "Hey they don't look like us they are bad"

Until we learn that we HAVE to live with our differences, we will die because of our differences.

I agree with you but...


Please think of another religion that uses primarily violence to get their point across to 'convert' the masses?

Peace,
- Naz