The AMA - Meanest Monopoloy Ever Organized!

Originally posted by DYepes
Parallelogram, the AMA is not puting a un to patients heads and forcing them to take their drugs and see their doctors.

You and every other American has the freedom to see any doctor, AMA certified or not, and use any home remedies you wish.

Not speaking for Parallelogram, just responding.

I wanted to experiment with vitamin B-12 to try to help my unexplained neuropathies. I spoke to my Neurologist (a different one that written about in my above post), my Rheumatologist and my M.D. about it, asking for their input into how well it might work for me, plus guidelines on quantity. I took in studies to each doctor showing them why I wanted to question if B-12 would help me or not. They wouldn't read the documentation.

I got laughed out of all three offices. The Neurologist told me to "go eat an apple" instead of trying to use vitamins.

My surgeon gave me some guidance on B-12 and I started to supplement my diet with it. When the Neurologist found out at my next visit that I began the supplement, he labeled me in his records "NON-COMPLIANT", we had words and I moved on to another Neurologist.

No one forces me to use the mainstream medical system, but if I go to my doctor for advice, he should give it and be able to back it up.

JDub

this is unacceptable. say what you like about doctors, about yourself, or about whatever the hell country is issuing you your opinions, but people are suffering, even dying, because the officials in the AMA want more money.

Amen. It's all about money.

"The truth about cures without drugs is suppressed, unless it suits the purpose of the censor to garble it. Whether these cures are effected by chiropractors, Naturopaths, Naprapaths, Osteopaths, Faith Healers, Spiritualists, Herbalists, Christian Scientists, or MDs who use the brains they have, you never read about it in the big newspapers."

source: educate-yourself.org...

Why are non-drug cures supressed?

... a business which makes 6% on its invested capital is considered a sound money maker. Sterling Drug, Inc., the main cog and largest holding company in the Rockefeller Drug Empire and its 68 subsidiaries, showed operating profits in 1961 of $23,463,719 after taxes, on net assets of $43,108,106 - a 54% profit. Squibb, another Rockefeller controlled company, in 1945 made not 6% but 576% on the actual value of its property.

That was during the luscious war years when the Army Surgeon General's Office and the Navy Bureau of Medicine and Surgery were not only acting as promoters for the Drug Trust, but were actually forcing drug trust poisons into the blood streams of American soldiers, sailors and marines, to the tune of over 200 million 'shots'. Is it any wonder, asked Bealle, that the Rockefellers, and their stooges in the Food and Drug Administration, the U.S. Public Health Service, the Federal Trade Commission, the Better Business Bureau, the Army Medical Corps, the Navy Bureau of Medicine, and thousands of health officers all over the country, should combine to put out of business all forms of therapy that discourage the use of drugs.

This is talking about 1945 and 1961....a long time ago. It's only gotten worse since. People were always taught to trust doctors and this is what they get in return. DENY IGNORANCE and be careful who's hands you put your trust in!

'The last annual report of the Rockefeller Foundation', reported Bealle, 'itemizes the gifts it has made to colleges and public agencies in the past 44 years, and they total somewhat over half a billion dollars. These colleges, of course, teach their students all the drug lore the Rockefeller pharmaceutical houses want taught. Otherwise there would be no more gifts, just as there are no gifts to any of the 30 odd colleges in the United States that don't use therapies based on drugs.

'Harvard, with its well publicized medical school, has received $8,764,433 of Rockefeller's Drug Trust money, Yale got $7 ,927,800, Johns Hopkins $10,418,531, Washington University in St. Louis $2,842,132, New York's Columbia University $5,424,371, Cornell University $1,709,072, ete., etc.'

Talk about a massive conflict of interest. Big pharma giving money to medical schools. HELLO!

it appears to me most of the people complaining about doctors who have been very bad in their practice should choose to live healthier?

So, if we live healthier, we won't have to risk our lives by putting them in doctor's hands? How does this make sense. You seem to be saying it's okay for doctors to be incompetent and we can avoid the incompetence by being healthier? That's mighty warped thinking.

As someone else responded to you, not all diseases are caused by someone not taking care of themselves. My brother died of liver cancer. He was an athlete, a runner. He took very good care of himself. That didn't help him avoid one of the worst forms of cancer out there. It swept through his whole body over a three year period. A good diet and exercise were not going to save him.....

Live healthier? What a horrible and naive thing to say!

[edit on 16-4-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Okay, so let me get this straight...all of you people bashing doctors in general say it is their lack of knowledge/acknowledgement of alternative treatments, their seemingly ingrained allopathic stance, and their unwillingness to accept holistic medications, but when someone suggests not listening to your doctor, you say people can't afford it and shouldn't have to use alternative treatments?

Can someone please explain what the third option is, other than allopathic or osteopathic treatment? Is it no treatment?

Also, your dollar bill is the most powerful tool you have. If you feel doctors are money-hungry, then take your money elsewhere when you receive poor treatment. Even HMO systems allow you to choose between more than a couple doctors. I know that for a fact.

~MFP

[edit on 4/16/2006 by bsl4doc]

Originally posted by bsl4doc

you say people can't afford it and shouldn't have to use alternative treatments?

Many people can't. You speak as if all Americans are rich. This is a fallacy.

Also, your dollar bill is the most powerful tool you have. If you feel doctors are money-hungry, then take your money elsewhere when you receive poor treatment. Even HMO systems allow you to choose between more than a couple doctors. I know that for a fact.

You have obviously not read the comments posted here about what happens when you express dissatisfaction with members of the medical "profession".

Swapping doctors is a great idea in theory. In practice, their rude notes in your medical file accompany everywhere you go. Word of mouth destroys your reputation. You become the enemy.

Using the almightly dollar doesn't work either. You talk as if people in the US can walk from one office to the next from day to day. It doesn't work that way. Changing physicians, for most people involves paperwork and waiting. This is the glory of the HMO.

HMO's used to have good physicians, but many of them left because of the constraints placed on them by their parent corporations. Finding a good physician in an HMO is cause for a call to 911. The shock almost kills people.

As I stated in a previous post, you have no clue about how our medical system works.

I neglected to mention that asking for a second opinion will also get you blacklisted. The gods on high hate it when you question their brilliance.

I have changed docs now a few times. I took my health and my money and went elsewhere. I educated myself buy purchasing and reading medical textbooks and pouring over study after study, making copies of it and trying to educate my doctors about my chronic health conditions (plural) and alternative treatment because I am tired of my doctors in general shrugging their shoulders at me. My first Endocrinologist told me, "If I can't prescribe it for you, it won't work", and then followed it up by saying, "I'm all out of ideas for you. I don't know why you aren't responding to the meds." But she was unwilling to consider anything outside her "norm".

I don't just accept a pill from my doctor, hope that it works and move on. I research before I ever ingest it. My (now fired by me) Endocrinologist was trying to prescribe me a med that she didn't even know the side-effects for. I asked her for the data sheet that accompanies the drug and asked her to read the sheet. She was amazed by the amount of side-effects.

I am not complaining about doctors in general, I am complaining about particular doctors, ones that I have had personal contact with.

So now I have to make a 180 mile round-trip visit to a large city to see another doc because that Endocrinologist doc mentioned above is one of two Endo docs in my whole county and there are no other docs approved by my insurance company to see in the surrounding counties. I could go to see one in the next county over, but then I would have to pay 90% co-pays.

I can't afford that because, like with my last MRI, it was $3,600 for 30 minutes in the tube. My insurance negotiated and knocked off $3,300, leaving them to pay $250 and me to pay $50. I don't have that same bargaining power as the insurance does.

Not all of us live in cities where we can run down the street to the next doc in the same specialty.

JDub

Originally posted by BlueTileSpook

My (now fired by me) Endocrinologist was trying to prescribe me a med that she didn't even know the side-effects for. I asked her for the data sheet that accompanies the drug and asked her to read the sheet. She was amazed by the amount of side-effects.

This is not unusual. Physicians are physicians. Their job is to diagnose and treat. They are generally pretty ignorant about medications other than which meds to prescribe for what maladies.

That's where your pharmacist enters the picture. Never hesitate to call them. They are a valuable tool in your health care "portfolio".

Not all of us live in cities where we can run down the street to the next doc in the same specialty.

This is what I've been trying to tell bsl4doc. She isn't getting it.

Sometimes I have to wonder if they are doing all of this for a reason other than money. Maybe they want to make the system function as "improperly" as possible to see if 'something' is going to return one day and strangle them for what they have been doing.
Since they are obviously controlling us with drugs and diseases, what level of control did they want to have over 'people' in general. Maybe they are just disgusted with 'us' because as brazen as they have been about infecting and poisoning everybody, nobody went insane enough to go find out exactly how to make them stop. Maybe they will be HAPPY to meet me !

Almost as if they were giving birth to their own little 'frankenbabies' just to see how long everybody would just shut up and keep mutating.
I would sell them some pus to drink once a week if they can cure everything they were able to treat and let them play with a slinky after I wrapped IT around their necks about 4 or 5 times while they hung by the ice-hooks in their ears from inside of a ripe port-a-can.

Look what they did to CPR.
spaces.msn.com...!B2AD15EED4F62B2B!290.entry

A rate of 100 compressions per minute.
You know what that means?
They have NEVER been alone with a dead loved one for 10-15 minutes trying to make sure they do it right so they won't feel like they FAILED.
Because very few people survive CPR, and now very few people will make it past 3 minutes of single person CPR rescue before passing out.
Somebody's needs a dung eating virus poured on their heads and evaporated from existence just for that!

If their "decontamination procedure" plans look good to me they could beg God to sprinkle a little sweet-n-low on the poo that I would be more than happy to squeeze into their nasal cannulas once a week. But since they don't believe in God or that they will be punished for what they did to us, I'm sure straight poo would keep them alive long enough to find the cure to ANY of our diseases.

MKULTRA
What were you looking for? Somebody to fix what you did ?
Or some way to stop the ULTIMATE punishment you knew you deserved?
I caught you running an unsafe long term FREAK AMINO ACID test exclusively on the American people.
Were you looking for something strong enough to come after you?
Well keep looking because I wouldn't scrape you off the bottom of my boot you funky little lilly white GLITCHES !

I'm gonna send this one over to my favorite lab monkeys as my own friendly way to say "HAPPY EASTER MOMMY AND DADDY "!
Thanks for MAKING me!

You have obviously not read the comments posted here about what happens when you express dissatisfaction with members of the medical "profession".

Swapping doctors is a great idea in theory. In practice, their rude notes in your medical file accompany everywhere you go. Word of mouth destroys your reputation. You become the enemy.

You do realize you can access your medical records and appeal personal notes in them, right? Every nation has that clause. Also, you continuously stress that doctors only practice medicine for money, so why would a doctor turn you down if there is a chance you would accept treatment? And why would a doctor turn you away simply because you are choosng the less costly treatment if they are still getting money from it? If you were expecting a gift of 50 euro, but got 25 instead, would you turn it down? No.

Using the almightly dollar doesn't work either. You talk as if people in the US can walk from one office to the next from day to day. It doesn't work that way. Changing physicians, for most people involves paperwork and waiting. This is the glory of the HMO.

You're right. It's too much effort to do research while you're healthy to find the right doctor for you and put paperwork into place now, especially when your health is concerned. Why not wait until you're sick and need a new doctor immediately?

You mentioned earlier that word of mouth spreads quickly. You're right, it does, and it works both ways. People unhappy with a specific doctor tend to mention it to family members and friends. Why not ask around at work/among nearby family when choosing a doctor PRIOR to becoming ill. that way the waiting and paperwork is done while you are well? Doesn't that make more sense? If you know your care is going to breakdown in less than a year, do you wait until the wheels fall off and then make an impulse purchase on a new car, or do you start researching other cars and prices prior to the car breaking?

As I stated in a previous post, you have no clue about how our medical system works.

And as I've stated earlier, you're egomaniacal and rude.

~MFP

Originally posted by bsl4doc

And as I've stated earlier, you're egomaniacal and rude.

I would like see the quotes I made to earn this BS label.

Originally posted by brEaDITOR

Originally posted by bsl4doc

And as I've stated earlier, you're egomaniacal and rude.

I would like see the quotes I made to earn this BS label.

Not a problem. Here are some examples:

Are you sure you're living in the US?

Maybe Italians don't mind waiting, but consumers in the US do.

Get real.

You know nothing about our health "care" system in the US

Stop being so egocentric, doc. You're just reinforcing the stereotype.

Why am I arguing with someone who isn't out of school yet?

Do you have any concept of a genetic disorder?

As for the rest of your statements, you can climb down off your throne now. Don't trip.

You have obviously not read the comments posted here about what happens when you express dissatisfaction with members of the medical "profession".

They are generally pretty ignorant about medications other than which meds to prescribe for what maladies.

A good deal of these comments were not made just towards me, but to a couple of other posters, most of whom made one post and then have yet to make another, I suspect because of your quick judgement and rudeness. I've already admitted to being arrogant and a bit abrasive at least once in this thread. I'm still waiting to hear the same from you, or, as you said to another poster, are you too comfortable on your throne?

~MFP

[edit on 4/16/2006 by bsl4doc]

Yeah, she's rude. Egocentric? Never.

Yeah, she's rude. Egocentric? Never.

At least one of you realizes it, heh.

~MFP

breaditor- I do have a concept of genetic disorder, unfortunately I find it hard to believe the majority of these terminal diseases such as heart problems, cancers or chronic disorders are a result of genetic disorders. If you could find a source that says 51%+ of cancers/ heart conditions and chronic disorders are a result of genetic diseases then I will change my opinion.

Until then, the majority , NOT ALL (which would be a wrongful generelaziation, and God forbid we do that in this thread) of ailments, diseases, and terminal illnesses are primarily a result of bad health habits.

So, if we live healthier, we won't have to risk our lives by putting them in doctor's hands? How does this make sense. You seem to be saying it's okay for doctors to be incompetent and we can avoid the incompetence by being healthier? That's mighty warped thinking.

Yea so excitable boy, a wonderful twisting of my message. I did not mention it was ok for them to be incompetent at all. However if people did reduce the trips they required to take to a doctor by living healthier, I am almost positive they will not have to see these doctors you complain about so much.

Live healthier? What a horrible and naive thing to say!

And let it be said as fact, Excitable boy states it is horrible and naive to consider living a healthier life in order to reduce the possibility of having to see the doctor. Or for your own health for that matter!

Originally posted by DYepes
Parallelogram, the AMA is not puting a un to patients heads and forcing them to take their drugs and see their doctors.

No, of course they're not, but they're keeping potentially life-saving treatments from achieving widespread practice.

Denying treatment in this manner is a flagrant abuse of the principle underlying the Hippocratic oath, even if there is some loophole in the letter of the thing. Physicians are sworn to heal, and it bothers the hell out of me that so many of them value money above that pledge.

No, of course they're not, but they're keeping potentially life-saving treatments from achieving widespread practice.

Denying treatment in this manner is a flagrant abuse of the principle underlying the Hippocratic oath, even if there is some loophole in the letter of the thing. Physicians are sworn to heal, and it bothers the hell out of me that so many of them value money above that pledge.

How are they denying you any non-allopathic treatment? Do you need a doctor's permission to buy herbal supplements or vitamins? Doctors are trained in allopathic medicine and thus will feel more comfortable prescribing and using the best allopathic method possible. America has a booming number of osteopathic doctors, however, which WILL provide you with treatments ranging from herbs to acupuncture.

www.osteopathic.org...

~MFP

Originally posted by bsl4doc
Okay, so let me get this straight...all of you people bashing doctors in general say it is their lack of knowledge/acknowledgement of alternative treatments, their seemingly ingrained allopathic stance, and their unwillingness to accept holistic medications, but when someone suggests not listening to your doctor, you say people can't afford it and shouldn't have to use alternative treatments?

Can someone please explain what the third option is, other than allopathic or osteopathic treatment? Is it no treatment?

Also, your dollar bill is the most powerful tool you have. If you feel doctors are money-hungry, then take your money elsewhere when you receive poor treatment. Even HMO systems allow you to choose between more than a couple doctors. I know that for a fact.

I know it's all our fault and if it isn't it's probably genetic ie. nothing can or should be done about it. right?

Wrong: belief, no matter how strong, isn't going to change anything, the sad truth is that far too many people have for as long as i know regarded MDs as gods in suits - and got burned, like it or not. that hard message is slowly filtering through now of course. dissidents practically don't exist, because, if anyone in the field talks about non-standard (drug them till they drop, then cut them till they've run dry) approaches, nothing will ever help that poor individual, doesn't matter how good you are, doesn't matter what certificates and references you have - or even TWO nobel prizes in different fields, being the ONLY person who ever managed to do that, as Linus Pauling's case clearly demonstrates.

If you believe that more than 60mg ascorbate is what's needed to improve your health, well, then you're a QUACK, end of the story. Actual testing? heresy, take a look at TaupeDragon's most recent thread, it took them what ? decades to run one super-simple- high school level experiment, and there are STILL people defending such a bizarre stance?

Clubs of high priests running the show everywhere, inventing fancy rituals to mislead, scare away the majority and brainwash the 'elite few' who win the 1st prize: a life without soul.

quote:
Live healthier? What a horrible and naive thing to say!

And let it be said as fact, Excitable boy states it is horrible and naive to consider living a healthier life in order to reduce the possibility of having to see the doctor. Or for your own health for that matter!

Sounds real good DYepes, when you take it out of context. I'm talking about people, like my brother, that get extremely ill. As my brother who died of liver cancer. I will say it again, living healthier for him and anyone that sick, is not going to make them better. You used living healthier as an alternative to dealing with incompetent doctors.

You can come out smelling like a rose anytime you want when you quote people out of context. When you pay attention to what people are really saying and quote people in context, what do you smell like?

Exactly.....

Originally posted by bsl4doc

At least one of you realizes it, heh.

This is my wife you're talking about. She may be a spitfire, but I still don't appreciate this comment.