Should Israel Divide Jerusalem???

I Say true christians for the simple fact that many people who claim to be a christian dont even believe in salvation thru jesus christ. So when you talk about murder and blood shed done by christians i can easily see how those groups drag the true christians the ones who believe in jesus christ salvation and walking in love for one another down. Ok the part of religious toloerence is this. When you have a practicing faith or group of people who persecute others of a diffrent faith that is intoloernce. When the great almighty himself comes down and judges others that is not intolerence that is judgement and by then it will be clearly apparent who god is. As for as the jews who died by the hand of hitler. God says in the bible that the jews would suffer greatly and this is just proof of that. However jesus talks about a time when this would start to end and the who book of ezekiel talks about prophecies concering the jews and things happening to let you know when the time has come. The jews have been scattered all around the world untill this generation and jesus told us when these things come to pass look up for you redemption draws near. If I am insane and way off as you say i am then explain how the word of god is reading side by side with what is happening in the world today? The fact of the matter is people want to say the bible is a lie because we are a morally bankrupt society. If we dont believe in god then we dont believe in good or evil or right from wrong and we dont have to answer for what we do with our lives. You will see these things happening soon starting with iran and russia and when you see god supernatarually intervene your heart will still be hard and you will turn from the truth and accept a lie. Do you think it is a coincidence that the jesus papers davinci code and now the gospel of judas are all trying to deny jesus christ as the savior. I think not for jesus said many will come saying i am the messiah. The bible also says many will be deceived and anyone who does not proclaim jesus as the only path to salvation is the spirit of the antichrist and you can see how all this is just falling into place. Notice how i dont just say christ as many people do. I dont just say christ because many new age doctrines also say christ to promote the universal princible of christ consious coming to the earth. That we are all godlike and that one day we will realize it. This is the say lie the devil used to tempt adam by saying if you eat of the tree of knowledge you will be like gods. God has called the jews back to israel because that is their land he gave it to them thru abraham thousands of years ago and he is calling them back home because he is gonna show the world thru them he is god. The plan is already layed out and if you want to know how the plan unfolds reqd ezekiel and you will see. The head of state for iran sayed himself he plans to wipe israel off the map. You think this is coincidence and do you think russian aid to iran all these years is coincidence? Even tho you are the ones deceived i will still pray for you that you will learn the truth before that time, for god wishes noone perishes but all find salvation thru jesus.

posted by PaRaSiTe: “ . . If I am insane and way off as you say I am then explain how the word of god is reading side by side with what is happening in the world today? [Edited by Don W]

That is just not true, P-site. I didn’t mean to imply you are insane. I am no doctor. I feel you have given too much credence to spiritualism. It’s sorta like, to me, that you’re intoxicated. You need a bit of moderation. Settle down.

If we don’t believe in god then we don’t believe in good or evil or right from wrong and we don’t have to answer for what we do with our lives.

I am a humanist, P-site. We work things out ethically. Employing fairness and looking at outcomes. It’s sometimes called “situational ethics.” It is also known as the Golden Rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Or, “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

You will see this happening . . your heart will still be hard . . you will turn from the truth . . The Bible says many will be deceived . . anyone who does not proclaim Jesus is the anti Christ . . all this is falling into place . . God has called the Jews back to Israel . . it is their land . . He gave [it to them] thousands of years ago . . He is gonna show the world through them He is God . . The plan is laid out . . to know the plan read Ezekiel . . you are the ones deceived, I will pray for you to learn the truth before that time . . God wishes none to perish but all to find salvation through Jesus.

Believe it or not, P-site, I don’t want to go to Heaven, I want to go to Hell. All the people I regard as being worth knowing will be in Hell. None of my friends will reach Heaven. I can’t imagine me sitting around for eternity shouting hosannas and hallelujahs to God and tweaking on a golden harp.

I want humor, jokes and good fun. I want lot’s of barbequed pork, good wine alternating with good beer, and a lot of pretty girls, scantily clad. You might say bouncingly happy! Even if it gets a bit dirty at times, say hello to Richard Pryor, Voltaire, and etc. but that’s me.

Best Wishes, P-site. (Care to tell us where you got such an uncomplimentary moniker?)


PS. Don’t forget to watch America’s best weekend tv at www.booktv.org...


[edit on 4/6/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by ProudCanadian
Jerusalem is rightfully the Jews homeland so is all of Israel! They should not have to divide what was originally theirs. The muslims have enough land for themselves. They need to butt out of Israel and leave the Jews alone. What do people have against Judaism anyway? It's the one major religion that's NOT out to convert everyone else. Jews just want to practice their religion in peace without being disturbed. But everyone has to keep picking on them and it's about time everyone just gave them a break.

Are you sure, really sure about what you are saying here?

Also, what about the Kabbala and it picking up converts? What about the Bahai faith too?

If all jews want to practice their religion then why don't they all move to Israel and stop their domination of all other first world countries? I have no problem with this. They don't need to run or control everything over here, we can do it ourselves.

This way of thinking about the human race waking up is just a small example of what god means when he says that if at all possible the very elect will be decieved. If ufos land on washinghton and come out and say they created us then probally about 95 percent of the earth will believe it because a wicked generation looks for a sign. and the antichrist will do lying miracles and signs in the sky. This whole movment of human evolving and becoming god like is the same crap that satan fed adam and eve in the garden and wouldnt you know it we still like the taste of that fruit.

Originally posted by Riwka

UN Resolutions can be passed under chapter 6 are non-binding recommendation; Resolutions passed under Chapter 7 of the Charter are binding on all UN members.

Resolution 181 (November 29, 1947) is a United Nations General Assembly Resolution - under Chapter 6 (non-binding)

UN Charter

All resolutions are binding no matter if they come from the SC or the GA, but the GA has little real power. The difference between Chapter Six are and Seven is that actions may be taken to enforce resolutions under chapter 7 but not under chapter 6. Chapter six covers PACIFIC SETTLEMENT OF DISPUTES and Chapter 7 covers THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION.

Chapter six is not mentioned in 191. Article 39[which is in Chapter Seven] is referenced, but only as a request to the Security Council.

The Security Council determine as a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, in accordance with Article 39 of the Charter, any attempt to alter by force the settlement envisaged by this resolution;

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181

UNGA Resolution 181 is little more than words from the debate team.

Consider the implications.....This is the resolution Israel touts as being the source of its legitimacy.

[edit on 6-4-2006 by Malichai]

i strongly disagree wth those people who claim that d jews is d right owner of jerusalem......could you please refer d history....not any religious holy book ok! if we do a really deep research...from Uthman , Byzantin....till now..we will find out that d PALESTINIANS IS D RIGHT OWNER....so d jews still can live in Jerusalem by respectin' to Palestinian. I can see from many article written here...it's seem that Palestinian right as d owner of d land had been denied by some people..so b fair

Yet again. With all the more than strong views on just this thread about who owns Jerusalem. It gets amplified much more in real life too with our anger. Guess what All humans own Jerusalem regardless of religion or culture.

So this is what I say we do. Destroy and flatten Jerusalem. Level it to the ground, and sell all the pieces of rubble on EBAY. If you want ownership of pieces of Jerusalem you better ante up with the money.

Then all that money is spent on classes for the world of understanding and recognition other other religions and cultures without killing each other. If no one thinks either side should have the city of Jerusalem just get rid of the problem. Less deaths and it will satisfy the rest of the world to solve problems and not to let them linger for decades. The flattened site of Jerusalem could be made into a water park.

Wailing Wall log flume
Dome of the Rock wave pool.
But you have to wear your Jesus life preservers.(Can walk on water.)


A Little bit harsh. But why not?
Just absurd as blowing people up.

[edit on 7-4-2006 by sbob]

[edit on 7-4-2006 by sbob]

jews control the media, we only see wat jews want us to see. also the jews in israel arent orthodox jews. theyre basically all europeans. look at em on tv and theyre not real jews. palestine and other arab countrys are always vilified by the media as terrorists, when in fact they have a reason for doing what they do. those reasons arent shown through the media. also you talk about how israel provides palestine with electricity and other things, but who provides israel with the money?! america does! israel would be nothing without america

[edit on 8-4-2006 by bboy]

History shows that there are no occupied lands in Isreal, and there isno such thing as a Palestinian people. The Israelis worked for years to irrigate the lands of Isreal, and no-one wanted it until they were growing grapefruits the size of bowling balls. The "Arabs" (not palestinians) started and lost three wars against Isreal; therefore, the lands are not occupied, they are conquered lands.

It was the UN and Britain that began the lies about Palestinian people.... it was they who constructed the tent city that the Arabs have lived in for generations, and for those generations all those people have been lied to about Isreal being the property of the Arabs.

Hamas wanting peace????? Never..... their maps of the region does not have Isreal on it. It is a religious war.... not a war over land ownership. A religious war, just as is the war by Muslims against the west.

Originally posted by Malichai

Originally posted by Riwka

UN Resolutions can be passed under chapter 6 are non-binding recommendation; Resolutions passed under Chapter 7 of the Charter are binding on all UN members.

Resolution 181 (November 29, 1947) is a United Nations General Assembly Resolution - under Chapter 6 (non-binding)

UN Charter

All resolutions are binding no matter if they come from the SC or the GA, but the GA has little real power. The difference between Chapter Six are and Seven is that actions may be taken to enforce resolutions under chapter 7 but not under chapter 6. Chapter six covers PACIFIC SETTLEMENT OF DISPUTES and Chapter 7 covers THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION.

Chapter six is not mentioned in 191. Article 39[which is in Chapter Seven] is referenced, but only as a request to the Security Council.

The Security Council determine as a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, in accordance with Article 39 of the Charter, any attempt to alter by force the settlement envisaged by this resolution;

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181

UNGA Resolution 181 is little more than words from the debate team.

Consider the implications.....This is the resolution Israel touts as being the source of its legitimacy.

[edit on 6-4-2006 by Malichai]

The world would be a better place if one of the 9/11 planes had hit the U.N. building, instead. Be that as it may, our Constitution says that America can enter into treaties with COUNTRIES, NOT organizations. Therefore, America is under no obligation at all to do what the U.N. says. That would be like having a treaty with the V.F.W. or the W.M.C.A. Any country that puts a U.N. treaty as a higher authority than it's own Constitution deserves what happens to it.

Originally posted by zappafan1

The world would be a better place if one of the 9/11 planes had hit the U.N. building, instead. Be that as it may, our Constitution says that America can enter into treaties with COUNTRIES, NOT organizations. Therefore, America is under no obligation at all to do what the U.N. says. That would be like having a treaty with the V.F.W. or the W.M.C.A. Any country that puts a U.N. treaty as a higher authority than it's own Constitution deserves what happens to it.

This is not true. There is no restriction on what types of entities can conclude treaties with the US gov.

Article VI

All debts contracted and engagements entered into, before the adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

United States Constitution

Being supreme law of the land violating the UN Charter would be a violation of US laws.

Is Bush a criminal in America for violating Article two of the charter with the invasion of Iraq?

[edit on 9-4-2006 by Malichai]

Originally posted by ProudCanadian
Jerusalem is rightfully the Jews homeland so is all of Israel! They should not have to divide what was originally theirs. The muslims have enough land for themselves. They need to butt out of Israel and leave the Jews alone. What do people have against Judaism anyway? It's the one major religion that's NOT out to convert everyone else. Jews just want to practice their religion in peace without being disturbed. But everyone has to keep picking on them and it's about time everyone just gave them a break.

Well your country is the homeland of the Native Americans, but I dont see your white ass giving them their land back so why do the Jews get back Israel? Especially when the Canaanites apparently were there in Palestine first. Hypocrites

Originally posted by Stunkums

Originally posted by ProudCanadian
Jerusalem is rightfully the Jews homeland so is all of Israel! They should not have to divide what was originally theirs. The muslims have enough land for themselves. They need to butt out of Israel and leave the Jews alone. What do people have against Judaism anyway? It's the one major religion that's NOT out to convert everyone else. Jews just want to practice their religion in peace without being disturbed. But everyone has to keep picking on them and it's about time everyone just gave them a break.

Well your country is the homeland of the Native Americans, but I dont see your white ass giving them their land back so why do the Jews get back Israel? Especially when the Canaanites apparently were there in Palestine first. Hypocrites

the jews have their land their not getting anything, their giving land back that they have been occupying ...they will do anything for peace even give up the land god gave them . if you doubt they really want peace think back to when the gulf war when the scud's were coming in yet isreal did nothing, no retaliation whatsoever they showed an envieable level of restraint..choosing peace over war...

so should we give US back to the american indian??

".... No it`s Israel who steal there land bulldoze there house and commit massacers in Jenin."

REPLY: The entire idea of "Palestinians" and "Palestine" are myths started ny the U.N. for decades. It was the Isreali people who worked for years to prepare and irrigate the land, and the Arabs weren't interested until Isreal started growing grapefruits the size of bowling balls. There are no "occupied" lands... they are "conquered" lands, since Isreal won all four wars started by the "Palestinians."

It has nothing to do with land at all.... it is a religious war, and always has been since about 300AD. Look at what has happened so far.... Isreal gives up some of their land, and the suicide bombings continue. The world maps Muslims use in their schools do not have Isreal on it. If those people believe their god says this what they must do, then their god is a Pig.... the Devil.

".... # From 1517 onwards Jerusalem was under Ottoman rule.

Jerusalem was never the capital of any Arab State.

# Since 1830 Jeruslem has had a Jewish majority -- at first merely a relative majority, but subsequently an absolute one.

# The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan annexed East-Jerusalem following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. They divided Jerusalem for the first time in its history and drived thousands of Jews — whose families had lived in the city for centuries — into exile.J ordan denied Israelis not only access to the Temple Wall but also to the cemetery on the Mount of Olives, where Jews have been burying their dead for 2,500 years."

REPLY: Absolutely correct.

".... There are people on BOTH sides of the fence who would like nothing more then to profit and prolong this war between Israel and Palestine...."

REPLY: What crap-ola..... it has nothing at all to do with "profit", it is one religion trying to completely destroy another.

"....if I remember right, it seemed that clinton was doing a pretty good job at striking a peace deal between the palestinians and the isrealis."

REPLY: Arafat, the tyrant/thug, was offered 95% of what the "Palestinians" wanted, and he turned it down.... of course, those proposals were never presented to the "Palestinian" people because if he accepted those terms, he would have been replaced. It's not about the land, folks.... it's a religious war.

"....then it was like both parties had an all or nothing mentality about jerusalem. maybe we should give the UN control of jerusalem and divide the rest of the area between the two parties..."

REPLY: It was the UN who started this mess. The world would becme a better place if one of the jets on 9-11 had hit the UN building.

".... And so did the Jews. Furthermore, Israel has not only Jewish, but also Palestinian citizens. I am still waiting for a source you deliver to proof your claim."

REPLY: he has no proof, merely what he's been brainwashed into believing, the same as four generations of "Palestinians."

".... The word itself derives from "Peleshet", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". The name began to be used in the Thirteenth Century BCE, for a wave of migrant "Sea Peoples" who came from the area of the Aegean Sea and the Greek Islands and settled on the southern coast of the land of Canaan. There they established five independent city-states (including Gaza) on a narrow strip of land known as Philistia. The Greeks and Romans called it "Palastina".

The Philistines were not Arabs, they were not Semites. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina" derived from the Peleshet.

Did you ever take a look to the Palestinian National Charter [the charter of the PLO] - who definded after the 1967 war the term "Palestinians'?

Probably especially intersting to you in their definition who is an 'Palestinian' is Article 6 of the PNC: "

REPLY: Again, correct.

".... the arabs want to keep making war and Israel responds and occupies."

REPLY: Lands won in wars are not "Occupied."

".... Hypothetical? Why can't this work in practise!?

REPLY: Again, because it's not about land, it's about exterminating a religion. Besides, you can;t negotiate with people who gladly blow themselves up to kill innocent people. I've asked this in many threads on many forums, and still no-one has provided an answer: show me one time in history where lasting peace has come through tolerance and negotiations. You can't, because lasting peace has only followed a vistory by one side or the other.

Deep Blue: As for your charts, it appears they came from a rather source.

".... Palestinains are Arabs: The Palestinian people living today in Israel and the GazaStrip and WestBank are Arabs from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, and the nations of North Africa."

REPLY: Don't confuse him with facts.

".... Now the Jews than occupy Palestine now, where did they came from?
They came from Holand, Germany, Russia, Ethiopia...."

REPLY: I think you should look at how their appearance; do the"current" jews look to you like Russians or Germans? Really?

".... As far as a Jew is concerned my quote of the New Testament is useless, because they choose to believe that it isn't genuine."

REPLY: There are many things in the New version that have been removed from the Old version, and so many interpretations done that it only vaguely resembles what it originall meant.

".... Israel shouldn't get anything. That land belonged to the Palestinians in the first place."

REPLY: No comment, other than research would help you in this matter.

"... "How are they the VICTIMS if they are the OCCUPIERS?!"

REPLY: See above; one cannot "occupy" land won in a war started by others. That is like saying America is "occupying" land won in the Mexican/American War. Unfortunatelt, that is what some are saying here. I wonder how long it will be before we see some mexicans blowing themselves up?

Originally posted by Malichai

Originally posted by zappafan1

The world would be a better place if one of the 9/11 planes had hit the U.N. building, instead. Be that as it may, our Constitution says that America can enter into treaties with COUNTRIES, NOT organizations. Therefore, America is under no obligation at all to do what the U.N. says. That would be like having a treaty with the V.F.W. or the W.M.C.A. Any country that puts a U.N. treaty as a higher authority than it's own Constitution deserves what happens to it.

Any treaty with another state/country must be approved by the Congress. As the treaties with the UN have not been approved as such, they are null and void at any time, and have no basis in law superceding the laws of America.

Originally posted by zappafan1

Any treaty with another state/country must be approved by the Congress. As the treaties with the UN have not been approved as such, they are null and void at any time, and have no basis in law superceding the laws of America.

You are mistaken. The UN Charter was ratified in 1945.

In 1942, President Franklin Roosevelt, flanked by the leaders of 26 Allied countries, first coined the term "United Nations" to describe the continued fight against the Axis Powers. Following World War II, the allies adopted the term to define a worldwide body of nations. On June 26, 1945, fifty nations signed the United Nations Charter in San Francisco, California. The United States Senate ratified the UN Charter on July 28, 1945. The United Nations came into effect on October 24, 1945. October 24 is now celebrated around the globe as UN Day.

US DEPARTMENT of STATE

The UN Charter is US Law.

well wether we think they should or not looks like it's going to happen the more i look at the news the same thing keeps getting reported JERUSALEM TO BE DIVIDED .......

www.freep.com.../20060505/NEWS07/605050377/1009

Israel's new government is drawing up a blueprint for dividing Jerusalem -- a once inconceivable notion -- giving the Palestinians nearly all the Arab neighborhoods while holding onto Jewish areas and disputed holy shrines

[edit on 9-5-2006 by the_sentinal]

posted by Malichai

posted by zappafan1
Any treaty with another state must be approved by the Congress. [Senate] The treaties with the UN have not been approved, they are null and void, and have no basis in law superceding the laws of America. [Edited by Don W]

You are mistaken. The UN Charter was ratified in 1945.

President Franklin Roosevelt first coined the term "United Nations" in 1942. Following World War II, on June 26, 1945, the United Nations Charter was signed. The United States Senate ratified the UN Charter on July 28, 1945. The United Nations came into effect on October 24, 1945. [Edited by Don W]

The UN Charter is US Law.

May I jump in? See Article 6, U. S. Constitution. Clause 2. “This constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof, and all treaties made or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.”

Clause 2 is known as the “supremacy clause.” It was written to declare the Federal government was superior to any state government. Treaties are specifically designated to be superior to state Constitutions and state laws. It has to be that way. We were after all, trying to make one united states. Not a conglomeration of colonies.

More of the U. S. Con. Article 1, Section 8. Congress shall have power . . Clause 18.“To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States or in any department or officer thereof.“

Clause 18 is sometimes called the “necessary and proper” clause. This is the section relied on to create and endow the administrative rules and regulations that guide the Federal bureaucracies in carrying out their duties. The Internal Revenue Code is a Federal statute. A law. The IRS - Internal Revenue Service - is the bureaucracy that carries into effect that law.

Resolutions of the U.N., or later amendments to the original U. N. Charter do not bind the U. S. unless the Senate approves the changes. Sometimes it does, most of the time it does not. This is because ratification requires a 2/3rds vote of those present and voting. This means 34 senators can block any Senate action on a treaty.

In some instances the President can issue an Executive Order that will have an effect similar to a U. N. Resolution or modification of the Charter. Executive Orders however are limited in that the president can only “order” departments or officers under his authority. Executive Orders are not laws.


[edit on 5/9/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by ProudCanadian
REALLY????!!!! Is it Israel that attacks them with suicide bombers?! The Palistinians are set on destroying Israel at all costs. There's proof but the media and the rest of the world is biased against Israel

Nonono..


its the palastinians that suicide bomb....

And the isrealies are the ones that shoot children, peace protestors, all the bad guys ya' know!

i believe that the next war will possibly be sparked by this:

"while holding onto Jewish areas and disputed holy shrines"

they will never agree with the arabs on this point the holy sites are where the problem is, which religion you subscribe to determines which stand you take on the issue, it seems hopeless