Me and "Them"- Alien Experiences

You said:

"I wouldnt say a sighting always goes the way of contact of any sort. Other then from what I've experienced, when you make a sighting of "craft" that truly is a symptom of "them", you are being watched simultaneously...as you are watching. "They" know youre looking, and it may in some cases be specially *for* you to see. What the motive is for that, I dont know."

(Sorry, can't figure out how to "quote" threads yet..).

My reply:

I totally and completely what you mean when you say that. It's eerie. You know they are watching you. You know that they know that you know they are watching you, and you know that you are watching them watch you.

I've had VERY strange experiences all my life, although I've only once seen one UFO sighting...a sliver sphere, over a lake that I was sailing on. The day that I saw the UFO was just 2 days after I had a scary experience. I have often thought that the timing of the two events was just too close together for it to be coincidental.


Can I ask you a question, JR? I don't remember being abducted, ever. But all I do know is that whenever I see abduction experiences in movies, or read about them in a book, I can't get through it. I get this pounding in my heart, and I just have this terrified feeling all over my body. I have to leave the theater (usually running), or I have to put the book down and turn on all the lights in my house. Is this how you and your wife feel when you talk about your abduction experiences?

[edit on 9-7-2006 by nikiano]

[edit on 9-7-2006 by nikiano]

Originally posted by Thekherham
I haven't had any alien encounters, but if I had I would keep my mouth shut unless I could give some kind of solid proof.

I understand your point, I just don't happen to agree with it. There is no solid proof, or we wouldn't still be debating this topic. (Or ... maybe we would. After all, there's still some debate taking place over the Moon landings, although I don't participate). You'll notice the OP isn't claiming to know the origin of the "entities" or even to know what's going on.

These forums would be devoid of content if solid proof was required. I agree 100% that the storytellers and hoaxers and downright deranged cause problems in this area. But that's where your own discernment needs to kick in. You can ignore the ones you deem totally implausible (see my comment above re - Moon landings) and can question the ones you're interested in. That's kinda the point, no?

Just my .02.

Originally posted by maximusX
Second red flag was his perfect way of description. So much a writers trait...

"I got out, and the sky seemed to have been under me, but I felt I was rising up toward it."

I for one know that after a long drive, if you get out of the car right away, you have that same exact feeling... I'm sure Mr. Ritzmann has taken a long drive and was wobbly legged, so sucked ya right in there using those choice of words.

It seems as though Mr Ritzmann is an aspiring writer...

Well spotted. I, too, am a writer; I've made a good living out of the profession for over twenty years. To my (professional) eye, the most obvious thing about Mr. Ritzmann's posts is that their author is not merely talented with words, but has trained and refined that talent to the point where he can deploy imagery as deftly as he does in the sentence quoted by maximusX. Max is right; Ritzmann's a writer.

Is that reason enough to disbelieve him?

On the face of things, it should not be. Unless there's a rule in the Earthling Contact Handbook that forbids our fetus-faced friends from bothering aspiring members of the Writers' Guild, I see no reason why they shouldn't have played a few tricks on Mr. Ritzmann.

However, many details of the story -- like the matchbook, for example -- cleave more to the conventions of fiction than to life. This was evident from the very outset. Mr. Ritzmann has maintained a fine sense of veracity, but he has done so using the techniques of fiction -- and not just any old fiction, but the school of modern American short-story writing in particular. I regard this as extremely suspicious, since auctorial technique is rarely, if ever, deployed in the service of objective truth.

Then, just when things were starting to get sticky for him -- too many people asking too many detailed questions, plus a lengthy but relevant digression into neurophysiology or perceptual psychology or whatever it was --Mr. Ritzmann suffered his 'computer trouble' and went offline. A strong fishy smell began to emanate from the thread. Mr. Ritzmann has continued to make himself scarce, despite numerous eager questions from other participants and requests that he continue telling us his experiences. By now, it seems, he is gone for good.

But he'll be back, I'm sure. No author can resist so many eager readers.

Jeff had more going on than just "computer problems". Again, I am not at liberty to discuss his personal life but suffice it to say he did tell me that he was dealing with some extreme issues (earthly in nature).

The last time we spoke he was ill on top of everything else. you all have every right to believe what you wish but at least pay attention when given information.

Ok, just ducked in here thinking this thread was long dead.

Jb is absolutely correct in that I've had some serious home life issues lately, that have deprived me of the time to be involved here at ATS. I hopped in tonight setting my new links up in the browser.

Now, for all those who somehow *think* they "know" me, and want somehow to place suspicion my way, lets get one thing clear. I am not a writer. Nor have I ever written a book. And I have never actually put my experiences down before this thread. I write it like it felt.

I didnt "leave" this thread when it got "sticky", I have no issue with those who dont believe or disbelieve anything I say. I conveyed some of the events as best as I can recall them. Thats all. To accurately describe the senarios means to literally have to paint them in writing. Detail, as the finer points are in them.

I'll be able to check this thread only once every couple days as my new job demands alot of time.

Ask away. Whatever you want.

Originally posted by Astyanax
However, many details of the story -- like the matchbook, for example -- cleave more to the conventions of fiction than to life.

Lets take this one while I have the time.

Firstly, has anyone ever had a matchbook from another state? A bar? Gas Station? Ok.

How about 10 or more years ago? Ok.

Where is it?

Right. You'd have no clue. As at the time, I didnt ascribe anything to the event related to "aliens" I didnt feel it any more then a "get out of jail" card. So, that when I got home I could show my Dad (who should have been pissed beyond words at me) that my inexplicable misdirection was true.

Yes, had I known it was connected to those little fellas, I would have kept it, scrapbooked it, or whatever. God knows where it is now. I have moved out, moved twice, and gotten married.

As I have said repeatedly, if you dont want to believe me, dont. Thats fine. It's only one event in my life anyway. It's all part of the puzzle that came together for me. I was just giving it as another step to the end I came to, and give the background story.

Someone mentioned the Gulf Breeze footage I shot. Wanna know the deal on that? At the time it seemed wierd. When I shot it that is. The more I watched it in the cam, after recording, the more it looked like an airplane that might have turned away. But, who could tell on a small cam screen? (A cam that didnt even belong to me)

I showed what I shot to several people at the conference I was attending at the time. Before I knew it, Whitley Strieber and I were sitting in his room reviewing it (I'd never met him), and then it was to be presented to the entire conference at the end.

All without one iota of investigation or analysis. I couldnt analyze my own footage...I mean c'mon. These people were HIGHLY excited over footage no one had even examined....far too excited as far as I was concerned.

I didnt even want it attributed to me until it was analyzed. I always figured on Dr. Maccabee doing it. I let a friend of mine at the time present it, as he really wanted to. I told him how and when I saw it, and how I shot it. He showed it to the convention attendees, and was well recieved. A prominent Gulf Breeze researcher/reporter was given a direct copy. Some days later I left the Gulf, after talking to Linda Mouliton Howe on the phone for the Art Bell show (not much to say, as there wasnt much to tell).

The original tape went back to the owner of the camera, it belonged to that person, and to this day I dont know where it is. There were copies posted on the net for years that I can recall. I have never had a copy. Then again, it was nothing that extraordinary to me either. (which should tell you it wasnt that great of footage).

Later I heard that after enhancement, it showed the classic "Walters" craft, but I never knew who said that...nor evidence to support it. I was also told that it showed very erratic movement...which never saw either.

What was interesting was that the next years conference, the footage I shot was shown as part of a lecture. The analysis of it. I still dont know who did the analysis, only that it was presented by Bob Oechsler. I wasnt asked, interviewed or involved in any way...which I thought odd, and...well pissed me off a bit. I got over it quick...because I didnt care. I'd since left the field behind me.

So, thats it for that. I mean if someone is saying it doesnt exist, then you better read the net, as it's still in reports out there. It was shown to a hoarde of people, 2 years in a row down there. But as I said, I dont have a copy, never did.

Ok, night then.

Originally posted by maximusX
Well, I understand that it is a great narrative, but if he's so afraid, why speak about it again? After all, I took it literally.

Because I feel it's important enough to. Because as long as I dont engulf myself in it all over again, I'll feel ok over it. But again, it's easy to engulf yourself here. You just dont seem to understand how it works for me, and thats ok. Just be aware I wont make myself so totally consumed within the subject to the point that I once was. Thats, where the scary part comes in for me.

Originally posted by maximusXTo comment on books, and actually state he's videocammed a 13 second ufo clip personally: Where's the evidence?

I find the idea that you assume this has never been shown to anyone, and I'm somehow making this video up, really amusing. I'd be glad to post it if I had access to it, or knew what happened with it. Apparently analysis was done, but I wasnt told about it whatsoever. As far as commenting on books, I comment where I choose to, about a subject I know. Thanks very much.

Originally posted by maximusX
Why even film it, if he's so afraid to revisit alien experienceds? It just makes no sense. Now suppose he really isn't afraid, but states so. Do you really think he is going to post this for the first time here without at least presenting some photos? Or that 13 second video perhaps? Which has nothing to do with this story. Yes, it's credibility, and this subject is not for writers. This sight to me is established for proof. He states he has proof, but states he will not post photos.

I stated I had proof? LOL...I dont think I did. I stated that the one constant in this is no proof i.e. ambiguity. I have proof to myself in a certain way, in the form of a symbol...thats about it.

Nextly, I wont post photos of what? What do you want to see? Maybe I'm missing something.

Originally posted by maximusX
But worries about copyrights, and puts a copyright on his post. Then states to us, this story is copyrighted already. Apparently, hes decided he possibly will write a book. Sounds to me like he's too much time on his hands, and is pasting what was already written in that book.. Write your book, and sell it. But don't try to sell it here. Proof. Sure, he can post a photo. And maybe it will get chopped, maybe it will get applauded as the real thing.

I was told to copyright the posts by several other members. How would you like to write anything, fact or fiction, to have someone steal it and write a book? You wouldnt. I wouldnt either, largely because they'd never get it right.

As far as me having too much time on my hands, it does again show you know absolutely nothing about me, nor my life. I could just as easily say whats important to you shows you have too much free time as well. See how that works?

Originally posted by maximusX
But without it, this whole thread is just a great sci-fi fantasy. I can get this at Barnes and Nobel. With decent pics too. (:

Have at it. No one is twisting your arm to stay here and read my posts.

This is a classic example folks, of why alot of people dont speak about experiences. It's not questions, even hard ones. It's all about tone and civility. This guy is not civil whatsoever. He assumes a hell of alot, and knows nothing. There's that attacking tone, whereby he's either trying to bait into some argument; or debate in some fashion. I aint here to debate. I was just laying out some events, and hoped to explain them well enough for people to follow. Thats all.

Hey Jeff, it's great to see you back. I commend you for sticking up for yourself and helping us understand where you're coming from. Would you mind posting more of your experiences? I'm quite interested to hear what else you have to tell.

What he writes and the way it is written I believe it to be the truth.

Maybe you just have to be an experiencer to pick up on the way things are.

I know when I came here I thought this site was different but it's not, what a shame.

As the Grey's would say, whatever is to be will be.

Good to have you back, Mr. Ritzmann. Gosh, it took some heavy bashing to get a response this time, didn't it? Hope you'll post more of the story now that you're here.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Good to have you back, Mr. Ritzmann. Gosh, it took some heavy bashing to get a response this time, didn't it? Hope you'll post more of the story now that you're here.

The "bashing" as you say really didnt have bearing. It was coming across the thread after all this time...I'd long thought it'd dropped off. Although I find it interesting you and others feel the need to "bash" to get someone to tell more about themselves or whats happened to them.

Thats a great way...to get anything you want from someone. Not.

Btw, just read your post above where you claim to be a writer. You apparently see a honed professional writer in me do you? Here's a news flash, lol, I've never written anything...maybe an article here and there...factual data reports...but nothing of the scope of this. I am NOT a writer, nor author of any book.

At the same time as being a bit aggravated that some think I'm a professional writer (which I'm not), I have to be a bit flattered that anyone thinks so. Again, all I've tried to do is convey the feeling, wierd as it is. That cant be done without trying to describe everything in detail as best I can.

Again, I dont have issue with the tough questions anyone may have. But "bashing" I wont deal with.

[edit on 14-7-2006 by jritzmann]

Welcome back Jeff,

You have a good talent for writing, but that should not disqualify you for having your experiences.

Smart people get abducted, they don't just abduct Bubba and Elba-Mae from the trailer park, that's my defense for you. lol

I'd like to hear the "Humps in the air story"

Thanks,

-ADHD

Well, at the very least, jritz, at least you learned from ATS that you have the potential to be a professional writer if you so choose.

Glad to see you back on the thread JR. Thought for a while you had been too crushed by your reliving and relating these experiences to go on with them anymore. I do hope that your continue on with relating more of your experiences and thoughts. I would say that it could be cathartic for you and at the very least enlightening for us unwashed masses.

I, personally, tend not to allow belief or nonbelief enter the equation for me when listening to/reading peoples personal experiences simply for the fact that this isnt a religion to me. I enjoy each and every persons story for whatever merits they have. Yes, there is a line I drawn for some of the more radical and fantastical components of peoples stories simply because I, based on my lifes experiences, can not wrap my head around some of them and to me seem to break my rules of reality and common sense. I will say however that it will take much more than good or bad writing prose to distract me from understanding what you or anyone else has experienced in their lives. Until I have reason not to, I will take each person at face value.

I do hope that you more to relate to us about your experiences dispite your detractors. BTW, I respect how you handle them.....

I'm done posting here since Jeff is now back to defend himself. I did however want to clear something up. When I said "Jeff is a talented writer", I in no way meant to infer that he was a writer persay. I just meant that he expressed himself very well in his posts.

If any of you got the wrong impression from what I said or even care for that matter I apologize.

Have fun all and God Bless!

Originally posted by jritzmann
You apparently see a honed professional writer in me do you? Here's a news flash, lol, I've never written anything...maybe an article here and there...factual data reports...but nothing of the scope of this. I am NOT a writer, nor author of any book.

No, no, you're a good writer and you've taught yourself to write the way any good writer does it, which is by writing. I've looked at your stuff on other sites as well: you write well. You've been writing for years, even if it's only in a personal diary, and you've been taking trouble over it.

It's not your story I find it difficult to believe, but the conclusions you draw from it. That is partly because I come to it with a great bias: I don't believe any alien-human interaction of any kind is taking place on a regular basis. There are other possibilities, you see.

For example, the experiences you describe may have happened to you exactly as you describe them, but spring from some other cause. That's weird and paranoid, but it's a possibility.

Alternatively, you may (for all I or any of your other readers know) be suffering from a mental condition that causes hallucinations that you interpret in the way you have described.

Or you may just like spinning yarns.

In any of these cases, you would almost certainly bring your evident writing talents to bear in order to make your story more persuasive -- because you wouldn't want us to think you paranoid, or prone to hallucinations, or simply telling us a tall story.

Now, I know that argument could apply to a description of an alien visitation just as well -- but you see, I just don't buy alien visitations, not at any price. My mind is pretty well closed on that issue, though I'm not going to argue with anyone over it.

I know it's annoying not to be believed. I don't suppose it will comfort you much to reflect that, to me at least, it doesn't matter in the least whether what you have written is true or false. It makes interesting reading. You tell a great story, and that's because you write so well. And that's what keeps me coming back to this thread.

And you wonder why "WE" the experencers don't sit down and write this stuff out. It takes hours to do so........ just so the likes of you (skeptics) make we experiencers stop wasting our time sharing with you things that occur.

It really pi&&es me off when someone has the nerve to use words like hallucinate etc. I will end each of my nights with my last thoughts being that all skeptics who have insulted experiencers to have the pleasure of an experience of the horrific kind then maybe you will wake up and be a little more open minded and understanding.

I live for the day all you skeptics are put in your place.

Observe50 you have to understand that because some experiencers have actual experiences, not ALL experiences are true.

As an experiencer yourself do you believe that all who claim to have experiences had true experiences?

Some experiences, (ie Billy Meier, Earth Sister etc.) could be just that... hallucinations. Experiencers surely don't believe ALL the claims of other abductees. For example jritzmann (this thread's OP) is one of the most ardent critic of Billy Meier.

Originally posted by Astyanax
I don't believe any alien-human interaction of any kind is taking place on a regular basis.

You'd have to qualify what you mean by "alien". Because you and I might be in exactly the same boat. If by alien you mean being of an extraterrestrial nature, as in space men, "another planet" aliens, I dont believe that either. I do however think it's what "they" want us to believe.

If you dont think there's anything at all going on in the way of an interaction with some type other conscious, whatever that may mean, then thats where I'd disagree with you.

In short, there are many things for people to lie about, or spin yarns as you say, to make themselves feel more important. I've seen it many times thoughout my life.

However this is not a club anyone wants to belong to, and those truly, and I mean honestly and truely having the experience, know exactly what I mean.

I have had the battery of physical and mental exams, and I'm fine, as I've said before. I've had blood work done as recently as a month ago, regarding panic attcks I was having. The outcome of that exam showed no physical ailment, it's just pure stress.

My last job was so incredibly stressful, I cannot begin to tell you. In my going on 25 years of imaging I have never had such a position that caused me so much dire stress and aggravation. I quit, and I quit like I have never quit in my career...I just left and never went back. I am not that sort to do that...not ever have I. I have since learned that I am one of about 8 people in the course of the year to quit...I lasted the longest, with most quitting within a week. I was there more then 8 months.

I now freelance, and have not been happier in a long time. I may however have a 9-5'er in the next few weeks...which is fine too. But you can bet your bippy it wont be like the last. I'll never put myself in that kind of position again, and let it happen.

So...stress is about all I have.

And, again, is this the sort of thing one wants to be associated with? I sure as hell dont. But facts are facts, and whats happened is done and did by every fiber that's me, happen. I cant change it. But I can talk about it when I feel it's the right time and place. It's important. That much I do know. Maybe not for all, but for some. Hell, maybe for more then I think.

This was all done because people wanted to know why I'm such a bastard about hoaxes, why I follow and ground a hoaxer to dust and do it so publicly. This is why.

Because muddy waters yield no answers. Maybe I have something, that might provide some sort of answer, to someone. Thats worth it.

Originally posted by observe50
And you wonder why "WE" the experencers don't sit down and write this stuff out. It takes hours to do so........ just so the likes of you (skeptics) make we experiencers stop wasting our time sharing with you things that occur.

It really pi&&es me off when someone has the nerve to use words like hallucinate etc. I will end each of my nights with my last thoughts being that all skeptics who have insulted experiencers to have the pleasure of an experience of the horrific kind then maybe you will wake up and be a little more open minded and understanding.

I live for the day all you skeptics are put in your place.

Observe-
It's ok, seriously. I dont take offense when people talk to me about not believing. The man (or lady) made his/her points and I respect that they dont believe. If it hadnt happened to me, I probably wouldnt either. You have to put yourself in the skeptics seat, and even sit in it yourself too.

How many times I have I cant count anymore. I tried over and over to put my own experiences off to dreams, to my artist's mind trying desperately to explain itself. But when others saw what I did, when I did, many others, when I lost friends because they didnt want to see it every time I was around...then you at some point have to resolve yourself that it's "real" whatever that may mean.

A skeptical mind is the best thing to have. LOL....most likely you sleep better for one.

So dont get mad at a skeptic, or wish ill on them. We need everyone's input. What you dont have to take is the often nasty, degrading attitude some skeptics have. I never have, nor will I ever.

But, talk to me like an adult, treat me with the same respect, and lay down your disbeliefs...I dont have an issue. Don't let it piss you off.