Me and "Them"- Alien Experiences

Thanks J. If youre not full of #, karma will get you a long way in this world or the next. When I read your stuff, real or not real, it amazes me to think about how much we dont know about life or reality. Best wishes man.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by Broker]

Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by TruthCanHurt
The idea behind what is real and what is not is an interesting concept but one thing that always grounds me and my beliefs is our common experience. For example: if someone else saw what you saw then it must be real. Right?

I would say no. One thing one has to get past in all this is that you have no toehold on reality.

Believe that. None.

Reality for me tends to be those things which are not subjective. But, in the end perhaps everything is subjective. I do know that when I hit my head on something solid that it hurts. My experience with hitting my head has always been consistent through the years. I suppose that even if I dreamed about hitting my head it would still hurt in my dream. Pain is a great teacher. So for me pain is real but I suppose it is real only from my perspective. No one else seems to feel my pain when I hit my head. That does not make it unreal, me being the only one to feel it, it just makes it a unique experience.

I do find it quite amusing that it is so hard to define reality. We do share a "common experience" but where the borders lie is not so well defined.

Originally posted by jritzmann
There is a mechanic to it. How it operates. And it knows you. "They" know you.

Have you considered that you may have implants that allow them to monitor you?

Jritzmann interesting that you say they are interested in the soul, I myself tend to agree that this tends to point in the most likely point of interest they must have, I cannot see that simple study/observation or a hybrid program would be the cause, if that was the case this would of been achieved a long time ago, and what we are looking at here is a phenomenon that has been with us for a very long time, we must look in broader ideas on what they would be interested, the soul or something that exists beyond the material of a person seems the more likely point of interest.

I recently read a piece that the author had reached a similar conclusion

www.experiencers.net...

interesting how his points mirror gnosticism and the acheron's, or even the parallels with biblical religion, the resemblance is very striking, if we look at all myths and legends I can see the mark of 'them' across it, all be it a reflection in a cloudy mirror.

Also do you see that fear is an interest to them, and do you also think there are 2 opposing forces involved in this phenomenon we call Alien experiences.

I believe that experiences like Jritzmans are but a fragment of a much greater experience that, sadly, will always remain in the dark.

Apparently only 1 out every 10 UFO observers/experiences reports their account. And as for possible abduction-like encounters or very close encounters those coming forward are even fewer. These people generally shun the media, are the biggest skeptics and most will likely keep it buried within right into the afterlife - although some say there isn't anything beyond physical death and if that's the case maybe we should encourage experiencers to come out with their stories BUT only if we, the ever scrutinizing, arm-chair enthusiasts, support them appropriately.

It takes courage to relate such happenings and my hat tips to the side for you Jritz!

Originally posted by Watcher of the Watchers
Also do you see that fear is an interest to them, and do you also think there are 2 opposing forces involved in this phenomenon we call Alien experiences.

Hi-
I dont know if fear is an interest per se, although there seems to have been on more then one occasion that "they" seemed to be trying to be directly fearful, on purpose. I dont know if it's interest, or that they seem to know what effect it has on us physically. Shock and fear can often put a person in such a state as they cannot move, or react as usual.

But is that only our reaction to something so outside of our perception that somehow manifests to be "realer" then real? I dont know.

I do believe that there seems to be another outside influence in the phenomenon, but one seems much less "in your face".

Originally posted by w1kdtr1p
I believe that experiences like Jritzmans are but a fragment of a much greater experience that, sadly, will always remain in the dark.

Very true. I do believe there's much more, but as I have said, if I dont remember it outright, then I choose not to. I dont, nor have I ever subscribed to regression therapy as any way to recover memories I dont have.

Originally posted by w1kdtr1p
Apparently only 1 out every 10 UFO observers/experiences reports their account. And as for possible abduction-like encounters or very close encounters those coming forward are even fewer. These people generally shun the media, are the biggest skeptics and most will likely keep it buried within right into the afterlife - although some say there isn't anything beyond physical death and if that's the case maybe we should encourage experiencers to come out with their stories BUT only if we, the ever scrutinizing, arm-chair enthusiasts, support them appropriately.

It takes courage to relate such happenings and my hat tips to the side for you Jritz!

I was recently interviewed on the Paracast, where I detailed a bit (if it made it thru the edits) why I dont believe alot of people detail the *whole* experience.

It's because it's too wierd. Wierd beyond what you all think is wierd. Those instances of high strangeness get left out of many accounts, at least in my opinion. Why? Because people having the experience, want to be believed. Thats only natural I guess.

I got past that very early on. I couldnt care less who does or does not "believe" what I say. But I will recount it in every minute detail including the high strangeness, which I believe is where certain details may be, that may be missing over the years. Theyre often left out, because it makes the recounting of the experience all the more hard to believe...not something an experiencer who wants validation want5s to include and be discarded for.

Its one of the reasons I can usually tell when someone is just telling a tall tale. There are signs and questions I ask, that will make their eyes light up if they truly had the experience. It's not 100% accurate all the time, but it's worked well for me over the years. Some researchers out there use some aspects to separate real experience, from those just wanting to "join the club". As if they knew what "the club" was all about...they'd never want to be in it.

And youre right, I've been labeled a debunker, a skeptic, along with many expliatives. These people dont realize when it's impacted your life, you realize there's something important there, and those actively hoaxing data for fun or profit need to be exposed. Publicly, and without hesitation. Which I tend to do a lot.

A lot of people report negative experiences, infact that seems like the only reports I hear, apart from those daft contactee stories from men from Venus warning of the dangers of nuclear power and warnings of the environment and other such hippie twaddle.

But can all experiences be bad.

Do they communicate with you, give you messages, sometimes in strange ways, for example you may wake up with a word on your mind, not a word you understand, you look on the Internet for the word and find its Latin, or a word used from 500 years ago, or a word in an obscure past language, this then answers an issue, a question that has been on your mind. Or perhaps you ask a question only for the answer to be written on the side of a vehicle that goes past you, or perhaps you ask something only to have a person walk past your window and to talk loudly the answer, or you ask for a sign to answer a question only to have it shown to you in some odd coincidence, or odd coincidences that link up events sometimes years later, like they plan events to line up years in advance to tell you something at some later date, it seems like a strange sense of humor they have, like they want you to know but they always must have doubt, one could just send an email or a telephone call, but no, its always is in odd strange ways of communication, nothing tangible, but enough to make others believe you need a ticket to the funny farm should it be mentioned in polite company.
If they was aliens then why would they communicate in odd ways, they seem to have more in common with mischievous fairies of folklore than visitors from another planet.

[edit on 17-8-2006 by Watcher of the Watchers]

Originally posted by Watcher of the Watchers
But can all experiences be bad.

I cannot speak for others. Mine were debilitating and...yeah, bad, and there isnt a day goes by that I'm not appriciative it's all over.

Originally posted by Watcher of the Watchers
Do they communicate with you, give you messages, sometimes in strange ways, for example you may wake up with a word on your mind, not a word you understand, you look on the Internet for the word and find its Latin, or a word used from 500 years ago, or a word in an obscure past language, this then answers an issue, a question that has been on your mind.

That has happened, in the way of a symbol. However I do not have the belief that the symbol, which incidentally was drawn upon my bedroom mirror, was from "them". It was taken to Dr. Mario Pazzaglini, author of "Symbolic Writing" where he positively identified it's hallmark and said he had not seen this type of writing in the configuration it was in. He indicated in the configuration, it seemed to suggest an urgent "tone".

He did give me it's "translation", but said it doesnt exactly translate to words we know. It's symbology, and he said it was very old, and it's initial origins were not fully known. He essentially gave me the "translation" as best he could convey it. And I have to say it did indicate an answer to a very difficult issue I had been very upset over.

Although it means very little (if anything) as far as anyone else is concerned from an "evidence" standpoint, it is the only tangible thing I have of all those years. It also marked the end of my involvement as far as "experiences" went...so it's very important/special to me, which was most likely the point anyway. But again, I have to stress that I dont believe it was from "them", but from something else. Something else that had not interferred (at least as far as I know) til that point.

Originally posted by Watcher of the Watchers
If they was aliens then why would they communicate in odd ways, they seem to have more in common with mischievous fairies of folklore than visitors from another planet.
[edit on 17-8-2006 by Watcher of the Watchers]

Well, if "they" developed completely away from human influence, their communication would be anything but "typical" from us. I mean imagine a culture thats never been exposed to *any* form of communication from here. Its hard to imagine.

But your line of thinking in the above quote is in my opinion more on the right track. It's infinitely deeper then little green men as far as I'm concerned.

EDITS: sorry, couldnt get the damned quotes to work correctly. Hope it's readable now.

[edit on 19-8-2006 by jritzmann]

[edit on 19-8-2006 by jritzmann]

[edit on 19-8-2006 by jritzmann]

Very interesting, its like I said there are at least 2 forces at work, the symbol and then the end of it, yes I understand that, activity of a more malevolent kind can happen, then I believe the other side step in, leave a calling card 'in one way or another' and the activity of the malevolent kind can stop, incidentally, I believe that fear is one way that the malevolent kind work upon, once it goes from the experiencer the activity of the malevolent types seems to all purposes to stop, or one hopes, on the messages, one cannot be too sure who they come from, if there are 2 sides does it come from the bad side or the supposed good side, good and bad being subjective and abstract possibly, this is something one has to be careful about, one can never be sure about anything when the cards are not in your hand, it is even possible that the cowboys arrive in the white hats once you have conquered your fear of them, only for the cowboys in the white hats to be actually the same thing only in a different disguise, as they say, evil always comes in the guise of good, so one can never be sure who is delivering the message.

I would like to see that symbol, and know more of the message you gained from it and the issue it spoke off, PM if its private, On the importance of the message information, I believe sightings of UFOs does not lead us to the nature of them, nor, and I believe false impression of warnings of earths future or the 'alien' experiments, which I believe are false, possibly screen memories, but the messages, the symbols, the communications, these things do.

Symbols is something I have a lot of experience with, though when I ask I almost want to see something I don't recognise, or expect, because if its something I recognise it means this phenomenon is all true, one keeps a part in ones mind that says it isn't, for the sake of comfort, its easy to do, after all people, the average person in the street doesn't believe these things, one can keep a part open to that, even though its knocking on the door again and again, so loud that it cannot be ignored, if I saw the symbol of yours and recognised it, it would be yet another thump on the door that makes it harder to keep ignoring, as the noise gets ever louder to something you already in your heart know, is true.

J.R.
Do you know when you'll be able to continue telling another part of the story? I was a little disappointed because, at the 9th page i was hoping to see at least one more part of the story but i got to page 11 and all i can do now is ask and wait. Thanks

Watcher,
I'd rather not get into posting the symbol here, as I keep it to myself. I had been at that time, for a few days pouring over old reports and interviews I had done with others over a 10-13 year period, and rather then go into deep detail of what someone saw, how they saw it, etc..I tried a different approach. I tried looking at the only thing left to study, the people themselves.

What had sightings or experiences done to them personally. What had been their outlook on certain things beforehand, and then after, the event. Had their spiritual views been altered or influenced. Were their relationships changed, better or ended due to the experience?

After all, the study of UFOs isnt a study of UFOs at all, but reports...by people. And thats an important issue to face. What I saw in those reports and even making some follow up calls was that people by in large were changed by the event, some much more then others.

For example, one man was a Pastor at a church north of me. He and his son had a sighting of 2 structured vehicles in 1998, near their home by a barn. He vehemently insisted that these things were "not of earth". He also had the feeling that night, that something happened to him, while alone in the basement, 2 hours after the sighting. But he didnt know what.
By 2000, he was divorced, working as a restaurant manager, and believed without question that there was no God, and that we'd been seeded here by aliens from another planet. His wife left him due to this belief.

Another one was an elderly couple, together for over 40 years. She had a significant sighting and experience in VA, while out with her Daughter one night 1997. The daughter recalls nothing. The elderly lady recalled everything, without the regression crap.
By 2000, her husband had left her as she'd literally become consumed by her search for what happened to her, and who the "people" were she saw walk out from a light directly in front of her daughters car. She was out every night looking for UFOs, and nothing stopped her, not the grandkids...not even Thanksgiving or Christmas. She died as a result of complications from diabetes that summer.

This is only 2. There's alot more. But after awhile they seem to fit together, in their simialarities. Obsession, torment, loss, and a search that never yielded anything they wanted, but only posed more questions.

I had been in that boat before. No answers, just more questions. You try to integrate the experience into your life, but it never seems to fit like it should. There's no place for it.

But it's got a place for you. Bet on it.

I came to a realization, that it's a dangling carrot. You'll never get the carrot. Thats not what it's about, it's about the things you do, and the lengths you'll go to find out.

Thats what hit me.

The consuming of spirituality, beliefs, relationships, sometimes your ability to go out after dark, your ability to function like a normal individual.

I'll give you 10 guesses what you'll get for giving up or changing those things to meet the challenge of the phenomena in return.

Absolutely nothing.

There is no answer. It's the question. You'll relinquish your relationships, friends, family, your religion (whatever it is) money, and time to this endeavor because you just know there's something at the end of it.

What does all that sound like to you?
(thats not rhetorical, give me your heartfelt answer)

I know what it sounded like to me. And it made me physically sick.

One of the most frequent things "said" to me by "them" was this:

"Are you sure?"

And that echoed in my head. I could literally taste my own self doubt.

Now, I'm slated for a lecture in DC that weekend to talk about my experiences, and it's one of maybe 2 I've done on that, at that time. Most of them that I did were on sighting photo analysis or film, etc. I was nervous enough having to talk to a huge group, now this.

So Jill, and myself along with a couple who knew all about me and my experiences, and in fact the man was one who had a sighting with me...a pretty dramatic one, came over one night about a day or so later. We had our bedroom door shut and locked because the room was a disaster at the time and we didnt want company seeing it.

I discussed with Jill and the couple what I'd found, and they saw how frought I was with saying the entire thing was...lets say, "highly-negative" in nature, at this lecture.

They left at 3 am and Jill and I went to bed. The next morning as we went to leave the house Jill asked me if someone else had come by after the couple left. I said no, but found it odd that I had that feeling too.

"It felt like some people came to talk to you, just you, not me. It was quick though." she said. "I dont know why I feel like that...just that feeling that someone else came by."

We blew it off and went to leave. I'd forgotten my hat or keys or something, and went back to the bedroom to get it. As I looked in the mirror I saw the symbol drawn on it. Jill had not seen it, nor had I. The couple the night before didnt do it, as they had no access, Jill didnt do it (and swears to this day), and I sure as hell know I didnt.

When I showed it to Dr. P, he said what I mentioned in the prior post. But to describe it further, he said it was called "angelic writing". And, he said, it was an urgent tone.

"It's a challenge of sorts..." he said.
"I dont get it, challenge to what?" I replied, cutting him off.
"I assume to you, your mirror right?" he laughed.
"Right" I said.
"It essentially says, 'Now you know, do you have the courage to stand up for what you believe?', does that have bearing to you?

I nearly fell over, I remember the top of my head pounding like I'd been smacked.

"Holy sh&*t." I said.

Dr. P was clueless about my dilemma, but there was no mistaking the challenge, nor what it meant, nor it's perfect timing.

The next weekend I gave my lecture at DC, and gave my answer to whoever wrote that symbol on my mirror.

Originally posted by Circa
J.R.
Do you know when you'll be able to continue telling another part of the story? I was a little disappointed because, at the 9th page i was hoping to see at least one more part of the story but i got to page 11 and all i can do now is ask and wait. Thanks

I've actually dropped the idea of continuity or a timeline Circa, and I've jumped FAR ahead and left out alot of experiences, just due to questions and talking about different aspects...I dunno, I've kinda jumped over alot just answering the lasts few posts.

It's hard to keep the timeline when you're in a group discussion.

Oh sorry, didn't read that part. I don't really care about anyone elses responses, so thats why i didn't read them, and i also skipped a lot of your responses to them. Just eager to hear more...except for the ghosts part, i think if i ever actually saw a ghost i'd # my pants, but still continue doing what i was doing, and try to act like it wasn't there. Like if i was rearranging books and saw one, i would immediatley get adrenaline, and abuse my undershorts as i would my toilet after being slipped some laxatives in my coffee, all the while walking around my den humbly and alphabatizing my books to my liking. =) No need to rush the 11, soon to be 12 page favor you've done for everyone though.
Thanks

Circa-ya really should read thru the replies, especially the last one. I dont really know how much more to tell, as the majority of it is assorted sightings and wierdness, and basically how my view solidified itself into an observer/observed standpoint.

Ok, so if I understand you, these 'beings' are playing with the human tendancy to seek models of reality, and doing so in order to cause despair, obsession, and ruin?

If the dangling carrot is an understanding of a greater reality, one that we cannot perceive without their help, and they really just want us to suffer, isn't that motivation an awful lot like a small child buring ants or putting salt on slugs?

It sounds more like the Archons of Gnosticism when viewed like that.

But look at things this way, sometimes things that are good are bad, and sometimes things that are bad are really good.

A child wants his parents to give him sweets (candy) all the time, the parents do not give it to the child as often as it wants, the child views the parents as bad for not relenting, but really they are good as they are thinking about the child's well being that it doesn't understand at the time.

One goes into the army and the drill instructor acts like he wants to kill you, you believe it bad at the time, that he hates the recruits, but in a war zone you would be glad of the strict training as it would serve you well on the field.
So it wasn't bad but good, it was only perceived that way without the hindsight of its overall plan.


Same may be true in this case, you belive it to be bad, but perhaps its for the good, perhaps the good is hidden, also I belive more noise is made over the bad than the good, make 10 people satisfied perhaps they will tell 10 others it was good, but disatify 10 people and they will tell everybody.

By the way jritzmann I have U2U to send you, I cant yet as I need to have made 20 posts, forum rules demands 20 posts before you can U2U, some notes of interest you may find informative, when I get more posts then I will be able to send it.

Originally posted by Ectoterrestrial
Ok, so if I understand you, these 'beings' are playing with the human tendancy to seek models of reality, and doing so in order to cause despair, obsession, and ruin?

No, it's a direct deception. You become engrossed in the idea of extraterrestrials, interdimensionals, etc etc. It appears to many as an extraterrestial phenomena (I guess by hardcore definition it appears that way) however there is no evidence of that. There is literally no tangible data.

Now thats not to say that ETs have never been here. I think it's entirely possible that they have been at some point in our history. But I dont believe this is it. This, to me, is something masking itself as ETs or whatever you want to believe. And, it largely depends upon your belief to enter into the reality we know. The more you ask for, the more you get.

When I came to that realization, the symbol showed up on my mirror. I cannot ascribe that to coinsidence. It was a direct statement, essentially saying that 'now you know, are you going to stand up and say it?'

Originally posted by Ectoterrestrial
If the dangling carrot is an understanding of a greater reality, one that we cannot perceive without their help, and they really just want us to suffer, isn't that motivation an awful lot like a small child buring ants or putting salt on slugs?

The dangling carrot is whatever you want it to be. Concrete "proof", the brass ring...whatever. You honestly believe youre going to get it. You'll go look for it, but it'll be more like them finding you rather then the other way around. Smoke and mirrors, and maquerading...thats all you'll find.

Originally posted by Watcher of the Watchers
It sounds more like the Archons of Gnosticism when viewed like that.

Hmmm.

Ok, so they are directly deceiving people. Then the sarcasm, and asking things like "do you really think so?" These questions are designed to make you reflect. Why are they intending to make you reflect?

Have you ever acheived something to overcome a problem, and they have said to you
"And x lead you to y, interesting." Or something like that?

Perhaps then this is purgatory, would they be the angels or demons sent to torment us, or burden us till we have cleaned our soul.

Are there only tormentors?
Is there no one in the white hats to ride into town and save the villagers from the bandits. It doesn't sound too good for us if not.

One thing I have looked at recently is symbols, once one starts to learn the meaning of them one starts to notice them and what they are saying, there is one thing I have noticed, that is a lot of pagan symbols and negative deities are still being paid homage. I also see that things are set up in conflict to other things/positions. It almost seems as if the whole world is set up to be in a constant conflict with itself and that rather malevolent deities and idols are still being paid homage, this is perhaps more for the conspiracy forums, makes me wonder if the world is not still being run by the deities that was paid homage/tribute in ancient times. Perhaps its just me, but I do find it odd when I see idols of Baal and Molech, not forgetting all the sun worship symbols that are everywhere, I find it odd that these symbols from the past are still in use.

Someone knows something, and something is definitely going on, this place is definitely under some major manipulation, but by who that is the question.

manifestation of diabolic and angelic entities, elves, trolls, djinns, fairies, succubi, flyers, Archons, Greys, djinns, and anything and everything from our past and present, will we ever know what they are.


I would like to know if there is anything linking the people that have contact with them. Are they are of certain bloodlines, genetics, psychic, artistic/creative backgrounds, what links are there between those that have contact with them.
Why are some people having these experiences and others are not, could it be that everyone has these experiences, but not everyone remembers them.

Also what could be the effects of these visits, just making a few people obsessed with the enigma leaves me short, they must do more than that, you seem to view the experience as very negative, an obsession isn't that bad, I don't see that in itself as being that destructive, unless you make it that way, I would like to hear what other effects they have.



[edit on 22-8-2006 by Watcher of the Watchers]