Me and "Them"- Alien Experiences

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Some experiences, (ie Billy Meier, Earth Sister etc.) could be just that... hallucinations. Experiencers surely don't believe ALL the claims of other abductees. For example jritzmann (this thread's OP) is one of the most ardent critic of Billy Meier.

You got that right buddy, among many others. Many, many "players" in UFOOLogy hate me. I'm fine with that. Especially in that case.

But now, lemme tell ya a story about one person I didnt believe worth a damn. It'll make you think. It certainly made me think twice about "nutty" (pardon the expression) experiencers. And although I believe it was a rare instance, it's worth mentioning.

Years before I ever did a lecture or talked anywhere, I went to these MUFON regional meetings. They were always interesting and you got some info on cases maybe happening right around your town. One big one was a state or so away, and I went with Jill.

We met some folks we'd met in local circles, or thru my photo/video analysis work, and were outside during one of the breaks. A small group of folks were talking and mingled within were some people I knew I wanted to say hello to.

As we stood there, Jill began talking with a person we'll call Ricky...I didnt hear what they were saying as I was involved in talking to someone else. I finished up and walked over to where Jill was and caught the end...

"So, when did..." Jill said
"oop, I have to stop talking, theyre listening again....you hear that??" Ricky interrupted.

Jill gave me that look men get from their wives sometimes...you know, the "get me the f*k out of here" look.

"Well lets head in" I said as we quickly walked away. Ricky quickly latched onto the next person close around and began rambling.

"You know I believe and have seen what's going on with you...you know I believe it's real...but that guy was a raving nut....he thinks theyre constantly listening to him and spying...my God, he's seriously not right mentally, you can just tell."

I knew exactly that kind of person. You can just tell there's something not right. They act paranoid beyond suspicious...edgy beyond cautious. I had to explain to Jill that the field did attract such "fringe" elements, those with clear mental issues, or sociological problems. Most times they were easily identifiable. This guy certainly was.

Months later, we saw Ricky again. We brought him up to some others we knew from the meetings, and you always got the same rolling eyes "oh yeah..." We were told by someone who'd briefly dealt with Ricky's case that he wasnt mentally stable, and was on some heavy meds for mental issues. There were *many* mental issues.

So, in essence, you didnt believe him...or that he was experiencing anything other then mental delusions from mental issues or medication. If he talked to you, you smiled and nodded, and got out of conversation as quick as you could. Generally, I steered clear. Most everyone at meetings or conferences knew this person was not stable...and nobody put any validity on him or his story. Rightly so I suppose.

Maybe 3 years later, I was talking to another researcher, and we were discussing cases in the area. The subject of mental issues came up, and I brought up "Ricky".

"well ya know he was institutionalized for awhile." the researcher said.
"well thats actually good, I felt sorry for him..it must be horrible to have such problems that literally haunt you....I mean where ya gonna run, when it's in your head." I said.

"well you didnt lemme finish man" the researcher said, "while he was in the hospital, I got a call from 4 of his nieghbors. They were having a cookout and towards dusk a disc stopped over Ricky's house. They said a green light came out the bottom and covered the house as well as part of the 2 adjacent houses. 2 people witnessed the party goers go silent and still as the light hit them...they were under a deck and not only saw the sighting and light, but it's effect on people. Then it left. Ricky wasnt home."

The researcher sat back and looked at me.

"You gotta be kidding." I said.

"Nope". he replied, never looking away from me "Maybe we all thought he was crazy and saw aliens...maybe he saw aliens first, and thats the after effect. Not everyone handles it as well as you ya know."

"Oh yeah I'm the pinnacle of strength, I got no time to be crazy, I'm too busy screaming." I laughed.

"You have to wonder how many people are literally broken mentally by this." he said.

"Yeah" I replied...and we moved on in conversation.

You do have to wonder, if it isnt the reverse of what we think in some cases. That, "oh so and so's off their rocker, they aint seeing aliens...theyre just nuts.", is it possibly that these were experiencers broken by the experience so much that they build on it to the point of our friend Ricky....to the point of mental illness ensuing.

While they certainly cant be counted on for any sort of investigation, or even reliable accounts of their experience, I think we need to be a bit aware that people like our "Ricky " exist. I for one didnt look on such "fringe" people the same again. I didnt take all their information or accounts into my own research, but I also didnt nod and walk away either.

I have to note that "Ricky" isnt the real name, for that matter I dont recall the name. The male attribute may or may not be correct. Changed to protect the innocent, and all that. But I assure ya, they were a real person, and the story is the best as I can recollect. There wasnt any more that I can remember about them or the sighting.

Anyway, not sure what point I was trying to make, it was an interesting tidbit from my days of researching hardcore. I know it blew me away...the person I least expected to think was actually having an experience...apparently was. Either way you look at it, it does show to me the detrimental effect the experience can have on some.

All the more reason I'm glad not to be a part of it anymore.

[edit on 15-7-2006 by jritzmann]

Thanks for the story about "Ricky". I thought it made a very good point.

[edit on 16-7-2006 by violet]

My God...


I don't know what to say... I found out about this forum through a google search today, (actually this is my first post) , and I registered, looking forward to read some interesting stuff.

I started looking through the forums and there was "Aliens & UFO's". I thought "cool I always liked this kinda stuff".

By chance, I opened your thread... ... and I'm terrified with what I read.
I mean just to think that what you've written here might really be true. I have no words for it. |:
I read some parts of your stories about two or three times, just to make sure I was reading right, and my whole body chilled with fear each time I read it. I'm not exagerating here.

I can only imagine the fear you must've had.
No, sorry, I think I can't even imagine that! It's just too much!

I always liked this sort of things, like paranormal and unexplicable stuff. I mean, it isn't really "liking" , but when I start reading or watching something about these matters, I can't stop 'till it's over, and I can't avoid being frightened by it.
I got really scared by your story, and your writting really helped. I could really picture in my mind the stuff you went through, and, I have to say, it felt weird. :S

I really should've taken your warning when you said it was about to get more disturbing, but I'm too curious and couldn't stop reading.
I read untill the part you were driving behind you father's car, and you got lost. And I'm stoping there. Sorry, your story is just too intense for me. O_O
However, I really apreciate your effort in writting this, as it seems it takes a lot out of you (I can't blame you!!).

Goodbye, and the best for everyone!

(sorry for the poor english :X )

[edit on 16/7/06 by Zarathrusta]

I didnt mean to put you off on the subject, Zarathrusta, then again it's an inherently fearful experience. I've always tossed around the idea that maybe it was meant to be.

I was telling a friend on the phone today that this whole ball of wax is (whether it's meant to be or not) a large learning experience. Not that youre going to learn anything especially from "them", but you will learn volumes about you.

You learn the nature of fear, and what it is besides the pounding heart and adrenalyn. You realize there's more to your thought process then you think, and that your reactions to "them" is far beyond how odd they "look" or what they say and do.

I have learned alot about people. How they react when told about my own experience or others. I learned far more then I needed to from the UFO community, and it's "stars". Where money and popularity, rule head and shoulders over the truth of any situation. It's more about the UFO "experts" and a TV show then the actual data. The community also has a serious issue of accountability...of course I dont know if thats the community, or human nature.

I have also learned that armchair experts who havent a clue who you are or what you've seen or experienced, come in when youre out, and throw their assertions down (with no real questions asked nor dilligence put forth) to vacate the area when you come back in. It happens here just as it does in real life situations. They somehow percieve there isnt a real person behind the words, with feelings just as strong if not stronger then their own. As I've said before, I couldnt care less who believes what from whom. I'm sharing all I can, from my perspective. If one person benefits, thats good enough for me.

I do think I owe you all an apology for the nasty way I wrote and what I wished would happen to all skeptics. I acted like a child when in fact I am a fifty-seven year old grandma of seven.

I do know that there are many that make things up and they think it's funny but these people who do this make it much harder for we the experiencers to talk and share with you.

As I sit here I will say I didn't ask for my experiences to happen to me but they did. I do know some can handle what has happened and some can not. I am shown and told things but I know the fear some can feel for I felt that one time when they were putting in the audio/visual implant but the fear was uncounted for.

I do have some understanding of the Grey's but weather the Grey's or another species all I can say is this;

HUMANS DO THINGS THE WAY HUMANS DO THINGS DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT OR WRONG AND THE SAME WITH THE GREY'S OR ANYOTHER SPECIES.

We may not understand and like what they do but then again they may not understand and like what we do.

First of all, I just want to thank Jeff and everyone else who has shared their experiences in this thread. I have tremendous respect for all of you. I truely believe that many of the so called "skeptics" are just people with huge egos. They are surely asking themselves what makes this person SO special to have these extraordinary experiences, why haven't "I" experienced anything. This is their problems and not yours, they have to work them out for themselves.

It saddens me that our own scientific community does not take part in research in this area. We are always led to believe that throughout this vastness of space and time we are the only ones. Again our egos get in the way. We must be so "special" that there can not be anything else like us (or unlike us) in the entire universe. As humans we must realise we still have a hell of a lot of learning to do. Unless we step outside of our little box and take a look at things differently we are going to set up many more "Rickies" to take a fall.

Originally posted by Watcher777
It saddens me that our own scientific community does not take part in research in this area. We are always led to believe that throughout this vastness of space and time we are the only ones.

Well I dont say we're the only ones, but I dont think thats what the UFO enigma is. Also, mainstream science has done research into UFO "experiencers" and what may cause what they see. It however doesnt encompass the entire experience.

I remember awhile back a Phd had a sort of dream lab, where he exposed certain parts of the brain to electomagnetic pulses, and duplicated at least a part of the abduction experience: the paralysis, the feeling of/and or seeing beings, and inexplicable fear.

Of course it doesnt count towards the entire experience, but the data he collected I found hard to ignore. He had also simulated the near death experience, but both lacked the entirety of the originals. I remember one subject saying he saw the tunnel, but there was no light at the end. Of course the subjects of the "abduction" senario didnt dissapear or see a craft, but were paralized and saw some sort of being, that they couldnt qualify as human.

I believe this not to be a debunk of the experience, but a clarification of it. I would argue that the percieved reality these people had when parts of their brain were exposed to stimuli, doesnt negate the reality of what they saw.

It's only a hallucination because lab attendants outside the perception didnt see it.

Sound familiar? Hmm?

What if said experiences under lab control stimulates the brain to see and percieve what we cannot normally? I have long said the alien contact experience is "hyper" real, in that it chooses the way it's presents itself, whether objective reality or subjective to the individual.

Many UFO cases have reports of people seeing a UFO, but out of say 10 people (and thats purely an example) 3 will have seen something different then the rest. The skeptic would say they didnt get it "right" as the others did, or they didnt pay enough attention, OR they were over emphasizing their experience in their mind.

I would say that perceptions vary when it comes to certain UFO phenomena.

I personally can say I have seen physical manifestations of "aliens" or whatever you want to call them, and totally non-physical ones. But they were the same players on stage. Nuts and bolts, or smoke and mirrors. It's my assertion that they can be either, dependant on condition of the individual, or environment, or god know what other variable.

So when science says they know what causes the "hallucination" of aliens, thats only a definition of reality as it is to us.

But this experience is far beyond our common perceptions of reality.

Get it?

I guess the only thing I can say is you have to wait for the day that they land in your own front yard and you see them for yourselves.

The way the fires, hurricanes and floods the volcano's, earthquakes and Tsunami's are plagueing Earth and the crisis here and there exculate of warring in the many countries all you have to do is keep your eyes on the sky for the worst it gets the better the chances they will show themselves.

jritzmann,

You seem to question the divide between reality and fiction. Between awake and dream state. You say that your experience leads you to believe that "they" can alternate between reality and ? at will. Correct me if I’m wrong here.

You say you’re not so sure that it is all "nuts and bolts". I think "nuts and bolts" here refers to physical reality verses what?, alternate reality?, dreams?, other dimensions? So I infer that some of the time you believe that events are really happening to you and some of the time perhaps not?

The idea behind what is real and what is not is an interesting concept but one thing that always grounds me and my beliefs is our common experience. For example: if someone else saw what you saw then it must be real. Right? You’re not just seeing things. or rather imagining things (as the case may be). I’m not sure common experience is what makes things "real" verses "perceived" but perhaps it is the only measure we have.

I would like to suggest an alternate explanation to events that have taken place. If someone or something is capable of taking over your thought processes and perhaps even altering your perception of reality then you can not be sure of the memory you possess. Perhaps anything you remember after an abduction experience is only what "they" want you to remember. This may explain the "non-real" aspect to the experience. It has been proven that the brain can be manipulated by subjecting it to various energy fields. An advanced knowledge of such manipulation may allow for reprogramming.

One thing that stands out to me from your writings here is the needle holes in the navel experience. It seems a little primitive for an "advanced race", if that’s what they are, to be using needles to accomplish anything. Don’t they have some sort of wireless non-intrusive device to do what they need to do without poking holes in your skin? I don’t know. Perhaps needles have stood the test of time and cannot be improved upon. Like the lighter. Will the Bik lighter ever be replaced? It gives you fire and does a good job at it with a relatively simple mechanism. Will a future lighter use laser beams or something else more exotic? Perhaps not, perhaps it is already perfect? Like the needle?

I tend to believe, since needles are involved, that perhaps "they" are not so advanced. This would narrow down the field of who "they" are considerably. Perhaps they are government special ops, experimenting with new technologies in energy fields and mind control. Genetic research also seems a likely theme; thus the phenomena of constant lifelong and family experiences. Genetic experiments would have the need to monitor people for long periods of time as well as monitoring any offspring. If history is any guide then the government (or secret government if you will) does experiment on the population or select segments of the population without our knowledge or approval.

I don’t believe that the whole UFO phenomena can be summed up to one specific type of occurrence. Just because there are US government ships zipping about with energy weapons and mind control devices does not mean there are not aliens also. In fact I would guess there are both.

Don't forget that at least one time these horrendous events were witness by his wife. So there's defenitely a physical reality.

I have to wonder in the car/missing time episode. Why didn't you call your parents collect from the restaurant? It's no biggie but would seem a natural thing to do when you're following your parents' car and you suddenly find yourself a couple of states away.

Originally posted by TruthCanHurt
The idea behind what is real and what is not is an interesting concept but one thing that always grounds me and my beliefs is our common experience. For example: if someone else saw what you saw then it must be real. Right?

I would say no. One thing one has to get past in all this is that you have no toehold on reality.

Believe that. None.

You know up and down, right and left because your brain tells you it's so. Our feeble senses (while it might be all we have to go on) dont have the total of needed perception to realize the core of the "alien" experience.

And youre right, when you say one has only the memory of what an "alien" action leaves you with. Is that truly the core reality? I dont know. It certainly "feels" like it. For all my senses tell me it is. But with the nature that "they" apparently have, can we truly believe it. Again, I dont know. Screen memory, atop screen, over screen?

Who knows. Bearing that in mind, and going from the premise that whats percieved may not be the whole reality of the experience, what *are* they doing.

Remember back when all the guys were saying they were having sex with alien chicks, and sperm samples taken, and the women were being impregnated, to have their "children" removed from them? Dave Jacobs was throwing around the whole alien/human hybrid thing?

I dont believe one second of it. Not that I think anyone was lying, but I believe they were led to believe that. There was something much bigger, and deeper going on.

I myself have never had any sexual type of experience, ever. Doesnt negate people having that, I just havent ever.

However you cant dismiss that both are cruel experiences. Deeply so. What feelings do they invoke. Helplessness, anger, and most of all, fear.

I can tell you truthfully that all my experiences seemed 100% real to me. The only ones I question are way back at the "black sheets" era. I cannot be 100% sure those were always absolute reality, although they sure as hell felt like it.

But, I dont doubt that they were 100% "them". I always got the feeling looking back on that time, that they were doing something to my "soul" (or trying to). Impressing on me something...but I dont know what.

Now later experiences were FAR and away more objective. Far more in my face. (Literally) My wife saw much, my friends, and my research partner at the time. I knew at that point, at the very least that it was external from us.

There is a mechanic to it. How it operates. And it knows you. "They" know you.

So, do I believe it's "real". Objectively. Yes, Without question. But, it doesnt have to be if it chooses not to. It's the dangling carrot. The dog and pony show. The bearing question is, will you watch?

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
I have to wonder in the car/missing time episode. Why didn't you call your parents collect from the restaurant? It's no biggie but would seem a natural thing to do when you're following your parents' car and you suddenly find yourself a couple of states away.

Ohio? I did. No answer. It's in what I wrote when I explained the event.

ya i was just going to withdraw my question. Just reread it. sorry.

I also forgot to address the "needle" issue. I agree with the poster, archaic in a sense.

I take that as I have taken the various marks on Jill and me, to be not hallmarks of "implants" or genetic sampling, but moreover "them" saying in effect:

"We're THIS real."

I look at it...like a threat. I mean you always say to yourself after an experience, "well they didnt hurt me, I'm still alive and I got thru it."

The marks always has a certain reply to me as if to say: "Oh you think so do you? We did this and you didnt even know it. We dont even have to try...remember that."

When Jill got marks on her, and I mean going to bed and seeing none, and waking up with them....I became absolutely furious. And I think that was absolutely the point. The idea that it wasnt just me they could do to, but those close to me.

So, marks to me dont mean what most would take them as. I guess.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
ya i was just going to withdraw my question. Just reread it. sorry.

Completely understandable, I've covered alot of ground, and so much I havent even gone into. Most of what I've detailed have been the more prominent in my mind, but certainly not all.

What did you mean when you said youd lost friends because they didnt want to seet "it" everytime you were around? I read your story but it was a while ago. Could you elaborate on what they would "see". Thank you.

Originally posted by Broker
What did you mean when you said youd lost friends because they didnt want to seet "it" everytime you were around? I read your story but it was a while ago. Could you elaborate on what they would "see". Thank you.

I know one particular friend dropped away due to being present during a sighting (in as much as the craft seemed to pay *him* more mind then me...which really freaked him out all the more). I've detailed that one here in this thread.

Others at the house would see small flashes of light, usually ball shaped. There would also be several instances of being outside, for instance leaving the house to go to dinner...when it would seem as if someone had taken your picture with a flash...but no one was ever around. The flash of a strobe was visible to everyone, yet no one could tell where the source was, we never did in any instance of that, and it happened many times. At one point when it happened outside a restaurant, one friend of mine's wife said that was it for her, she didnt need the wierdness. We never spoke after that.

She and some others, now that I think about it...well, we had more then a few people tell us they saw someone walk from the hall to the bathroom. My wife sees that to this day every now and then. It's a short space between the wall of the hallway and the bathroom, and the person is usually steeped in the shadows, therefore not recognizable. I have seen such on a number of occassions, and I can say as well I cannot tell what it is. Only that it looks like a person. NOT an "alien". I have mistaken it at night hours, for my wife or son heading to the bathroom. When the light doesnt go on in the bathroom, and the door doesnt close, then I know its not them.

No one ever saw any "beings", concretely, with the exception of my wife, and my research partner (maybe my infant son...who could say for him, he doesnt even remember it), that I can recall right now. One friend did have some unexplainable instances, but wouldnt elaborate on them and never said directly that he saw any "alien" being. I often wondered tho. We no longer speak either.

I saw a good number of friends and aqaintences come and go. Hey it aint like I blame em. It's rather a common fear I think in any paranormal instance that you might "bring something home with you". Who wants that.

Luckily these days, since all that is over, friends we have still call and come to eat or hang out.



[edit on 19-7-2006 by jritzmann]

[edit on 19-7-2006 by jritzmann]

Hey Jeff, Ive spent the last three days or so reading over every post in this thread with as much detail as possible. Let me say thank you for spending your time typing all of this out. Its apparent to me that you care about this. Even at the risk of events occuring inside of your own home, just to inform us. So once again I'll thank you.

I have noticed that you acknowledge God, or a Supreme Being.
Also you remarked that "they" seem to you, to not be an advanced lifeform from another planet. Also you made references like "they" were trying to imprint or make marks upon such things as your soul. So, I am wondering if you believe that "they" are apart of the Spiritual battle that is taught in the Bible.

To me that is how I understood your story, not that "they" are trying to gain any kind of physical information from you. Rather they are trying to inflict spiritual/emotional harm, and they mean absolutley no good. (although good has come from it)


A being that means no only harm and is in our deffeniton "supernatural", seems to me much like the defenition of those that hate the Creator, or Satan and his followers.

I have had experiences in my life that I call "supernatural", or that would seem to defy modern teaching/thought. When I try explaining the happenings, I usually relate to these things as being demonic, or demonic beings influencing the situation.

If we agree upon what "they" actually are then I have more I want to chat with you about if your willing.


[edit on 19-7-2006 by Scyman]

Scyman-
I believe that's pinpointing, or pigeonholing the issue a bit too much. As I get time to go further along, we'll get more into this aspect.

Hey jr here's the dream lab guy your lookin for(and some quick quotes):

Michael Persinger Laurentian University

www.laurentian.ca...

the pursuit and discovery of subtle interactions between the geophysical/ meteorological environment and human behavior.

Within the commercial setting, we have pursued the possibility that control of experience, from depression to memory, may be simulated by transcerebral application of complex magnetic field patterns associated with activity of either endogenous or exogenous ligands at the synapses.

As a human being, I am concerned about the illusionary explanations for human consciousness and the future of human existence. Consequently after writing the Neuropsychological Base of God Beliefs (1987), I began the systematic application of complex electromagnetic fields to discern the patterns that will induce experiences (sensed presence) that are attributed to the myriad of ego-alien intrusions which range from gods to aliens. The research is not to demean anyone's religious/mystical experience but instead to determine which portions of the brain or its electromagnetic patterns generate the experience. Two thousand years of philosophy have taught us that attempting to prove or disprove realities may never have discrete verbal (linguistic) solutions because of the limitation of this measurement. The research has been encouraged by the historical fact that most wars and group degradations are coupled implicitly to god beliefs and to the presumption that those who do not believe the same as the experient are somehow less human and hence expendable. Although these egocentric propensities may have had adaptive significance, their utility for the species' future may be questionable.

He also claimed on a tv special to be able to induce OOBEs and abductions.
I'm still waitin for the final word.