Illegal Immigrants:What can we do?

Found this on Newsmax - Very interesting...

Newsmax

One of the more popular claims by illegal immigration proponents is that those who enter the U.S. by breaking the law are invariably "hard-working" and "law-abiding" once they get here.

That argument, however, has one major flaw. According to Justice Department statistics and the analysis of immigration experts, the "law-abiding" claim often isn't true.

As Investors Business Daily reported in March 2005:

"The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."

I don't have a problem with legal immigration, but I really think we need to take a hardline stance with the illegals. Sure, some of them are good hardworking people, but a lot of them are just criminals out to get what they can, with no reguard for the people already here. We can't allow this to continue the way it's going, it will get worse before it gets better.

The one point that really jumped out at me from the article was this:

Citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: "Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That's a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population.

That says to me that the majority of the folks coming over are up to no good, I mean they are criminals as soon as they knowingly break the law and come over.

We really do need to start cracking down HARD on the companies that knowingly hire illegals. They are they ones who are making it desirable for them to come in the first place. It there are no jobs or free government handouts waiting for illegals, they may just decide to come over legally. Throw their but in just for a week, then toss them back over to Mexico, I don't really care what the bleeding hearts or Mexican goverment thinks about it.

Anyone who wants to come over legally, I welcome you with open arms, hell I'll buy you a beer (una cerveza por favor! ), otherwise, see ya later!

As far as illegals doing the jobs no one wants, that's because a lot of lazy ass Americans need to be shaken off the welfare teet! Don't have a job? We'll find ya one. It should be a three strikes policy, you can quit the first two jobs you get hooked up with, it may just not have worked out, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But if you quit the 3rd job, well you can just starve. Keep in mind I'm talking about able-bodied adults here. I'm not so cold hearted as to turn away the sick, elderly or mentally challenged. But if you are able to work, get to it.



Nothing like a good rant for breakfast!


(mod edit - please revisit this link:
excessive quoting, and how to quote




[edit on 28-3-2006 by Riwka]

~~

imho, the Mexican ex-patriots and other disadvantaged S.A.'s
cross the RioGrande to enhance their life opportunities.

most likely equal parts of "the grass is greener" syndrome...and...
decrepit conditions & lack of upward economic mobility, in the countries they are born into...
the USA has attempted to build up industrial areas in Mexico,
thus bringing some parts of the 'American Dream' to the campensinos
and factories, fabricating plants south of the Texas border.
But attempting to raise up Mexicos' standards & opportunities for the masses,
to something approximating the US way of life has too many built-in pitfalls & other class defining obstructions built into that nations laws.

so, again, imho- - its a case of the 'illegals' choosing to excape
the bondage of the Elites & the Bourgeoisie of Mexico
and chasing a dream in the land to the north, where the grass-is-greener.

of course the Christian ethic and the Politicians use of this problem
just adds to the continuing drama.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Not immigration ... but ILLEGAL immigration.
That's the problem. Not legals ... but ILLEGALS.
You can start with this information -

Well, I'm not going to argue that illegal immigration is a good thing. It is obviously illegal and wrong. My original point was that our economy would STILL suffer if we kicked out the illegals. This is why this issue is such a touchy one. I also think that all immigrants should attempt to learn the English language when coming here...I'm seeing more things written in Spanish than English...but thats getting off topic.

The links you provided- at least the ones I clicked on were all the results of President Bush's domestic policy programs. And I am not a big fan of his...you can't really pin his fiscal irresponsibility on the illegals.

What some people here proposed to solve the problem sounded a bit drastic. If anything this should not be like shock therapy. America does not need any iron curtain walls or any of that crap. We don't want to project that kind of image. Incrimental reforms to make it easier for illegals to immigrate as legal aliens would do the trick...The illegals that are here already- there is not much you can do, so just leave them alone. With time most of them are likely to become legal residents if they want to take their lives seriously anyhow.

Originally posted by Frosty


I can barely trace my ancetral roots back to the time of immigration in the late 19th Century on my father's side (German/Swedish) and chances are my mothers side just simply headed out of Canada without worrying about whether they were legal or not (Cajun). And then there is a whole group of people who were brought over as slaves! Not to mention what the Indigenous Americans must think. The pitiful banter on my radio station is disgusting.

I would love to hear the majority of the rest of American's ancestral migratorial roots to America and prove whether they are legal or illegal. Besides, it is a very thin line as to what is legal and what is illegal; the US still has one of these policies in effect known as the 'wet-foot/dry-foot policy' and 'natrualization by birth'.


[edit on 27-3-2006 by Frosty]

This has been done by my mom for her fathers side. The first of the Correll clan came over in the mid 1700's to South Carolina from Germany and he ended up fighting in the Rev War for America. They eventually migrated to southern Illinois and were instrumental in the settlement of that area. There is one town that is named after a branch of the family, Eaton

About 1813 the William Eaton family and other restless pioneers considered Fort LaMotte too crowded and therefore constructed a new stockade on a site several hundred yards north of here. A family trait of the Eatons, large feet, led to the name of Fort Foot.

www.historyillinois.org...

I also have native american (Shawnee nations) in my ancestoral heritige,all documented in a binder that I have at home. I havent done my dads side yet, but that is in the plans.

This last weekend would have been a perfect time for the U.S. government to set off a nuke in downtown Los Angeles. Then they could have blamed it on Iran or North Korea.

Unfortunately, it appears to me that what is currently ongoing is essentially the US Governments attempt to mop up a mess that resulted from poor enforcement of policies already in place. If someone wanted to enter the US to make a new life for him or her self, there are procedures in place to facilitate this. In addition, a more rigorous enforcement of border policies should have been in place to essentially force those wishing to immigrate to the US to follow the proper procedure. Unfortunately, what has now happened is that there is a large number of illegal immigrants - so what should be done?

Many options, such as deportation, a mass arrest of all illegal immigrants etc are simply not feasible. So, to resolve the issue, the proposal has been made to essentially grant amnesty to all illegal immigrants who broke the law.

I wonder what all the legal immigrants are thinking about this issue? In some respects, it seems unfair to now allow all these illegal immigrants to remain in the country when the legal immigrants went through the proper procedure and followed the law.

I am having trouble finding a soultion for this so called problem. I think making the illegals legal may be a solution. But then they would have no regard for the countries law thinking it could be changed when ever it wants to. SO.....
maybe the best ting to do would be to give all illegals a temp visa, and if they can hold there own with taxes and not go to jail then they will be able to apply for permanent resident.

On the boarder side, it would be needed to lock it down, if it really bothers all of you people that much.

Personal note:
dosnt bother me any, i am a smart person that can adapt to any situation. This world is dynamic it dosnt stay and it never will.

When people say that illegal immigrants do work that Americans won't do, it really gets my hackles up. I've been looking for work for months. I will gladly haul trash, pick fruit, lay asphalt, butcher meat, etc. After all, I've done all these things as a stay-home mom -why not do it for a paycheck? But I'm not hired for those jobs. Sometimes it's because I'm a woman. More often it's because I expect the company to adhere to OSHA standards of safety.
Americans can't get those jobs they "won't do" because the companies that hire illegals don't bother with safety.

Illegals need to go home. Companies need to hire American citizens and legal immigrants. And those hundreds of thousands of students need to be back in school.

Here it is in simple bullet points:

The government needs to do its job and enforce the borders.
The illegals are illegals and need to be treated as such.
If the illegals dont like it so what, then go home.
This has nothing to do with race.
These folks need to be in the system like the rest of us, like paying taxes, having insurance, etc..... otherwise the whole thing comes crashing down.
Let us not forget the whole security thing, that is another laundry list of why we need to enforce this whole mess.
Come on in and start paying your share. If you are going around with fake SSN and id you should be put into a labor camp.




[edit on 28-3-2006 by duncanidaho]

I really don't want to see some mass round-up of illegals, I think most would agree that would be a dangerous route to take. I say let the illegals that are already here stay on a provisional basis. They would have 1-3 years (depending on their behavior in the time they've already been here) to prove that they can keep their nose clean, and hold down a job. If they do so, tada...you are now American citizens. If they commit a (drug related, violent or otherwise serious) crime during this trail period, boing...bounced back across the border forever.

After they are citizens they should not be able to be deported unless they were proven to be a terrorist or kill-crazy madman.

As far as any new illegals go, if you're caught here illegally, you blew your one chance, you get tossed out never to be allowed to return (legally anyway).

Of course this means better border enforcement as well.

That was a great post duncan, I do agree that the points you hit are just about on the money in regards to the illegals being discussed in this thread. Personally I know quite a few illegals and most of them I know are really decent people and very hard workers, but that does not change anything, they are here illegally and to remain they need to do it the right way. There is a landowner here where I live with lots of farm land to be worked, this guy will hire nothing but illegals and somehow gets away with it and its people like him that need to be somehow held accountable. Must have some good connections because he never gets his due, but thats to end soon hopefully.

Thats all nice.
But does not solve the problem.
There is no way the goverment is going to send them all back.
They contibute to much and our country would fall hard and fast.

PS: I dont think anyone is thinking about the logistics of the problem, you cant just take away 5-10 million people away from this country and expect everything to be fine.

[edit on 28-3-2006 by imbalanced]

Seems to me that the so-called "illegal immigrant" problem is more about human trafficking and new age slavery.

How many of these people are brought here, used, abused and then thrown on the trash heap?

The Labor Department defines human trafficking as recruiting, transporting, providing or obtaining any person for forced labor, slavery or servitude in any industry.

Two years ago, a woman from India claimed she was held captive by a Brookline couple who brought her here as a nanny, held her passport and forced her to work for $3 per day. ...In January, a Connecticut businessman pleaded not guilty to charges of recruiting Portuguese immigrants to work long hours for low wages in his Dunkin' Donuts shops and home.

The average age of a girl entering prostitution is 13... Most have been sexually abused and are from all racial and socio-economic backgrounds. ...Most prostitution doesn't fit the Hollywood stereotype... "It's more hidden. It's something that's happening in hotel parties," he said. ..."They trade these girls like they're cards," he said.

I think it would be a good idea to hold the employers respnsible. They are the main people at fault here. The people looking for work are just trying to make the best for the families.

[edit on 28-3-2006 by imbalanced]

Instead of people just talking about illegal immigration they should be talking about immigration period. It is too high and not necessay anymore. There is too many people and it is driving down the standard of living. Only the rich and the immigrant wins and everyone else loses it appears. People need to have an open discussion on ALL aspects of immigration now before their countries are destroyed by it.

Originally posted by DCFusion
Unfortunately, it appears to me that what is currently ongoing is essentially the US Governments attempt to mop up a mess that resulted from poor enforcement of policies already in place.

I agree Many of us have for decades seen this problem become bigger.

Originally posted by DCFusion

I wonder what all the legal immigrants are thinking about this issue? In some respects, it seems unfair to now allow all these illegal immigrants to remain in the country when the legal immigrants went through the proper procedure and followed the law.

Since I am a legal immigrant from Latin America I qualify to answer your question?

To me is not unfair, I really don’t see any problem with this approach. If they get taxed the same way I do I don’t see how this could affect me. I mean they are already here, if anything it should increase the revenues of the federal government helping to fund both the educational and health systems that they have been using for free. Illegal immigrants are thee biggest problem in the U.S. Both the educational and health systems are suffering the economics effects of thousands of illegal immigrants. Most blue collar workers have already or very soon loose their job due to cheaper labor from Illegal immigrants. Everyone must remember this problem did not start yesterday, our politicians, and I say ours since I just became a U.S. citizen 10 months ago, had seen this problem inflate for years.

The reality is that if the assumed 11 million illegal immigrants were in lets say a period of ten years become US citizens the entire make up of this society could change. Some estimate the amount of illegal at 25 millions. I think this people should be used as cheap labor to boost the economy.

Either way, in my opinion and thousands upon thousands people around the world probably agree that the U.S is the richest country in the world, the society that the whole world admires and dreams of. A country where the most qualified men/woman gets elected, regardless of color or last name. Where business is business and productivity is more important than which school, you went to. Where laws are followed and corruption is in extinction.

To some of you this doesn’t sound like the America we live in today, but I swear that is the way it looks from the other side. Illegal immigration will never go away completely as long as this country has as much freedom as it has. People from troubled parts of the world will always risk everything to come to the US.

One option is to build a wall on the borders and after the national ID is finally operational it will be way easier to enforce the laws. I think most Americans are ready for that, or maybe not. We must find a balanced approach to this problem.

Nobody wants to talk about the real problem. how do you help ? this once called developing countries now called third world nations, whatever you want to call it, this poor miserable countries where uneducated masses of people are hostage of silly presidents and their business partners that keeps them in the dark of any possible decision they can make to better their country.

I know is really hard to try to help every miserable country that has a corrupt GOP, when you have to deal with problems on your own house. I see these two problems connected and a solution should try to hit both targets. U.S. was founded by people running away from tyrants and oppression, today we have the chance to stop running and face the enemy instead of fleeing the battle.


[edit on 28-3-2006 by LoKito]

Soficrow I have see worst while working with migrant workers children and families here in GA.

Want to fix the illegal immigration problem?

I tell you how . . . .

Start firing your politicians for making the situation worst.

Force corporate American to pay minimum wages for the jobs they give to these illegals so Americans will be able to get the jobs like that illegals will not come to American for jobs because an American will have it all ready.

Force our government to get off the Corporate butt and start raising the minimum wage in our nation that has been where is at for the last 9 years.

Force our government to stop allowing and supporting cheap labor and slavery of the poor that comes across the borders.

The compromised on Monday is another free ride for corporate America and will not change anything when it comes to low pay wages, abuse and the problem with illegals.

Corporate America is running our country, they don't want to pay Americans fair they want slaves for their menial jobs and that is why they want illegals.

Deport every freaking one of them - and do it NOW! They are here ILLEGALLY, meaning against the law. Round them up, throw them in those concentration camps I keep hearing about that FEMA supposedly has and then deport each and every one of them AFTER finger printing and photographing each of them. If they return illegally, there should be no second chance, they will be thrown in jail! If I am expected to obey the law then you can damned well believe that I expect these illegals to obey the freaking law. Oh, and by the way, if you insist on living here - LEARN THE FREAKING LANGUAGE AND CUSTOMS AND FLY THE AMERICAN FLAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kozmo

Attitudes and approaches like yours and many other are not going to work.

We have to fire the politicians that are been influence by lobbyist that wants to keep illegals in the US so more money stay in the hands of the people that solicit their services.

Is all about who serve who, I remember reading a post form another thread that a member made mention of how illegals are the new slaves, when slavery was abolish they need for slave workers turn to illegal immigrants.

funny I believe it.

Actually Marge the way to take care of illegal immigration is by first placing the National Guard on the border, second by fining and imprisoning any corporation/person that hires an illegal immigrant, third we have to round up and deport all the illegal immigrants we can find, and fourth we pass new ID’s and documents that would make it virtually impossible for anyone without them to exist in the US. And yes I am willing to pay higher taxes so that his can get done.



[edit on 28-3-2006 by WestPoint23]