Illegal Immigrants:What can we do?

Originally posted by NinjaCodeMonkey
California and other border states rely on these illegal immigrants to keep the economy going, they work their butts off for crap pay so don't say it is easy money. Bush wants to make it a felony so he can throw all of them in forced labor camps run by KBR. You say you want tall fences and towers but who will you get to build it? Maybe force the Mexicans ot do it and then throw them all out? Who will you get to pick all the fruit and veggis? There are jobs in this country that Americans don't want to do. Most of the people on welfare aren't illegal aliens, they are American citizens. I'm all for throwing the criminals out but the hard working decent immigrants should be left alone.

NinjaCodeMonkey I could not agree more......
1) Throw out all illegal immigrants. They broke the law. End of story. If you or I broke the law, we would be prosecuted and thrown in jail. But hey...lets give the illegals amnesty, B.S.

2) If they are truley taking jobs that americans don't want. Then hey, lets have our WELFARE recipents do those jobs. Instead of getting a govt. check to sit on your lazy butt, go out and work these jobs, and let welfare make up the difference. Think of the actual money this would save!

3) Since the current immigration laws are not being enforced. let America file a class action suit agianst the govt. Isn't that the American dream these days,, sue to become rich. Lets all sue the Govt. for not enforcing the laws they wrote, make it some crazy amount so that all AMERICANS benefit. Then see how fast they are to enforce the laws!!

4) The IRS takes way to much of my money, and more importantly my personal information. They want my money...deal with ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. When the govt. of this country starts worrying about it's own citizens first, then I'll give a damn about them. Until then, they are nothing more than CORUPT! We didn;t elect you to take care of the worlds poor, we elected you to take care of us!!!

5) This leads me to my final point. Until we, AMERICANS, throw out all of these career politicians who do nothing, but save their precious jobs in Washington. Then we are stuck with the status quo. Change is scary...but is it scarier than giving over our country to Mexico and Latin America??

For the record....I am all for LEGAL immigration. Legal immigrants are the ones who built this country. They are the ones who went through the process, learned our history, and more importantly...LEARNED OUR LANGUAGE! For them I will be forever greatful. Because if it wasn't for them, we would not be where we are today. But illegals do nothing more than SUCK the american economy dry! They do not pay taxes and they send the majority of their money back to where they came from. We lose billions every year because of them. Immagine what that money could do for the citizens of this country, and the people who have earned citizenship in this country???

Yeah i heard about that too. Not much to say but Yeah i heard about that too.

You cant get rid of the problem by sending them back to where they came from.
They already do that, and they always come back. They will dig, sneak and fly here whether we want them to or not. There has got to be a nother solution, besides if you guys felt this strongley about it where were you when all of this started. This isnt a new event happening all of a sudden, its been like this for a long time.

Yeah, I bet you guys would love to pick your own fruits and vegetables, and mow your own lawns and work all the sh*tty jobs. So Let's kick them all out, but let's also replace all the latino soldiers(sons/daughters of immigrants) with non latinos..... I'm going to start a sign-up roster for all the volunteers on this board, so that we can line you guys/gals up and send you off to Iraq to replace all the sons/daughters of immigrants.....All immigrants do is rape and pileage this country anyways....they don't even pay taxes, or do anything good for this country...let's also make them all felons, that'll make things easier and solve our problems.


regarding the iraq rant:

"Latinos make up 9.5 percent of the active enlistees in the armed forces; they are over-represented in the most dangerous assignments, such as infantry, gun crews, and seamanship, and make up over 17.5 percent of the front lines."

"Hispanics make up about 12 percent pf causalities so far, but they only make up about nine percent of active-duty military.”



The reality is that the regular american doesn't want to work the sh*tty jobs. It's easy for us to sit on our shiny computers and say that they should all be kicked out when no one in here is willing to take over their jobs.....So let's cut the bullsh*t, and be realistic......immigrants do more good for this country than most people realize.....they pay their taxes but don't claim their tax returns in fear of being deported, they fight our wars, they even work all the sh*tty jobs none of us want to do.....

By the way, I'm hispanic(not mexican) and my father came to this country illegaly to give us a better life....His efforts allowed us to immigrate here legally and he even eventually became a citizen......I'm also a good example of what good can come of immigration....I was a sergeant in the ARMY (4 years)infantry, have my bachelor's, and I'm also a software engineer.......the son of an immigrant and proud of it. The majority of immigrants come to this country to do good, and most of them do....but all I hear is negativity which I think is more fear than anything....

[edit on 27-3-2006 by iostream]

Originally posted by iostream
Yeah, I bet you guys would love to pick your own fruits and vegetables, and mow your own lawns and work all the sh*tty jobs. So Let's kick them all out,

I havent seen a single person in this thread say they are against legal immigration. Theres a huge difference between legal and illegal immigration.

If we cant find people to do these "sh*tty jobs" thats what legal immigration and guest worker programs are for. There would be no shortage of people lining up to do that if illegal immigration was stopped.

But oh how people love to say this bunk even after people clearly stated they all for legal immigration, they peg you as anti-immigration if you ever come out against illegal immigration.

You also say" The majority of immigrants come to this country to do good, and most of them do" that may be true but when we are talking about millions of people if even a tiny fraction say 5% are criminals and come here to do harm we are letting hundreds of thousands of criminals into this country we dont have too.

Seeing the number of illegals in US prison I would bet the number is much higher the 5% as well. Not a majority by far but thats alot of bad people.



[edit on 27-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]

I think the quickest way to solve the illegal alien problem in the U.S. is to annex Mexico and possibly the rest of North America, from the Panama Canal to the Northwest Territories. That way, we'll all be one, big happy American family and no one will be illegal.

Of course, there are some problems with this proposal. The primary one being that the United States has enacted laws regarding wage and health conditions that would make it difficult to keep Mexico as our handy Third World Country next door. And with NAFTA, etc., if we annexed Mexico we would no longer be able to legally get the current citizens there to work for us at pennies on the dollar. That would create many problems. One of the reasons the United States is so great and powerful is that for centuries now we've been able to find pretty cheap sources of manual labor. Slaves, at first, then Mexicans. Without that foundation, costs would naturally rise, and we'd lose our ability to consume like crazy people, which drives much of the world economy.

I guess that's why, when you think about it, the whole notion of there being a "problem" with illegal immigrants is kind of a red herring, and why you don't see too many politicians or lawmakers actually doing something about it other than give it lip service.

Originally posted by Liquidus
You claim that immigration is backrupting America? How so?

Not immigration ... but ILLEGAL immigration.
That's the problem. Not legals ... but ILLEGALS.
You can start with this information -

www.vdare.com...
www.vdare.com...
www.theamericanresistance.com...

Bush gives 1 billion in taxpayer money for illegal alien medical care.
www.warriorsfortruth.com...

www.fairus.org...

www.usatoday.com...

medical services, free of charge, if they claim an emergency need. for care.
www.jpands.org...

EMTALA rewards them with extensive, expensive free medical services
if they claim emergency requirement for care. www.newswithviews.com...

Illegal immigrants badly overuse ERs instead of tapping into
often-free health-care clinics or finding a family doctor.
www.sfgate.com.../chronicle/archive/2006/01/06/EDGU9GHG0S1.DTL

Environmental destruction by Illegals crossing -
(national parks are maintained by .... US TAX PAYERS)
www.desertinvasion.us...



[edit on 3/27/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Liquidus
You claim that immigration is backrupting America? How so?

And then there is the law enforcement that has to be paid. And
the insurance claims for the property theft and damages. And
the upkeep of the jails (including free medical care, food, etc.).


www.city-journal.org...

excerpt

The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave
Heather Mac Donald

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide
(which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all
fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995
that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern
California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much
greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the
dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution
schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault
or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over
the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of
them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and
racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was
about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis
Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien,
controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry
following deportation.

The LAPD and the L.A. city attorney recently requested an injunction
against drug trafficking in Hollywood, targeting the 18th Street Gang and
the “non–gang members” who sell drugs in Hollywood for the gang. Those
non–gang members are virtually all illegal Mexicans, smuggled into the
country by a ring organized by 18th Street bigs. The Mexicans pay off their
transportation debts to the gang by selling drugs; many soon realize how
lucrative that line of work is and stay in the business.

More information at the site -
www.city-journal.org...

I'd rather see my tax money being spent on health care for AMERICANS
in the appalachians ... or for free education for all AMERICANS ...
instead of being massively spent on the illegal immigrant crime wave
that has hit America. Billions and billions that could be spent uplifting
Americans instead of having to chase down criminals who are dragging
this country down.



[edit on 3/27/2006 by FlyersFan]

Having visioned massive riotings in the streets, I hope to the Universe, this is NOT a true vision..

its a hard problem to work out. And this will only get worse as time goes on

[edit on 27-3-2006 by imbalanced]

After reading soficrow's thread about bird flu being 90 something percent
deadly to humans .... I don't think that we will have to worry about illegals
for much longer. We all will probably be dead. Them ... us ... everyone.

Sorry. But that pandemic is probably going to do some serious
damage to the human race around the world.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by iostream
Yeah, I bet you guys would love to pick your own fruits and vegetables, and mow your own lawns and work all the sh*tty jobs. So Let's kick them all out,

I havent seen a single person in this thread say they are against legal immigration. Theres a huge difference between legal and illegal immigration.

If we cant find people to do these "sh*tty jobs" thats what legal immigration and guest worker programs are for. There would be no shortage of people lining up to do that if illegal immigration was stopped.

But oh how people love to say this bunk even after people clearly stated they all for legal immigration, they peg you as anti-immigration if you ever come out against illegal immigration.

You also say" The majority of immigrants come to this country to do good, and most of them do" that may be true but when we are talking about millions of people if even a tiny fraction say 5% are criminals and come here to do harm we are letting hundreds of thousands of criminals into this country we dont have too.

Seeing the number of illegals in US prison I would bet the number is much higher the 5% as well. Not a majority by far but thats alot of bad people.



[edit on 27-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]

Yeah, I understand that 5% is not good for any country, but let's say it is 5%....what about that 95% of good people? That's a sh*tload of good people who want to contribute to this country with the hope of getting a little piece of the good old american pie. Are you going to cast them out because of the smaller percentage who do bad? I think the utilitarian perspective summarizes well: "The greatest happiness for the greatest number". In your opinion would America be better off with no illegal immigrants than with 95% good and 5% bad?

We all know that criminals exist amongst every race.....I know you don't think that immigrants who come here legally are all saints. There are criminals in every race....latino/italian/irish/chinese/canadian/french/ etc......can you name one race that doesn't have people who comitt any crimes? Of Course not, and we all know that. But it's easy to quote the small percentage that do bad to overshadow the good.

[edit on 27-3-2006 by iostream]

[edit on 27-3-2006 by iostream]

I wouldnt want to ban the good immigrants which by every indication are the majority just the criminal ones. But the only way you can do that is through some form of regulation and control of who comes across the border.

Theres alot more immigrants that want to come into the US then just Mexicans and alot dont have the luxury of just hopping a border. They go through all the correct channels to come here. Is it really fair to them when criminal can just cross the border any time they want.

There is no race issue involved in the word Mexican. A Mexican is someone from Mexico. You may surprised to hear this, but I will let you in on a big illuminati/freemason secret: there are white Mexicans, there are black Mexicans, and yes asian Mexicans of all sorts. And besides, these illegal immigrants come from all over.

I am sick and tired of my radio stations lately talking about this 'We're not against immigration, we just do not like illegal immigration; this country was founded on immigration but legal immigration at that'. Please, these blowhards can blow me.

I can barely trace my ancetral roots back to the time of immigration in the late 19th Century on my father's side (German/Swedish) and chances are my mothers side just simply headed out of Canada without worrying about whether they were legal or not (Cajun). And then there is a whole group of people who were brought over as slaves! Not to mention what the Indigenous Americans must think. The pitiful banter on my radio station is disgusting.

I would love to hear the majority of the rest of American's ancestral migratorial roots to America and prove whether they are legal or illegal. Besides, it is a very thin line as to what is legal and what is illegal; the US still has one of these policies in effect known as the 'wet-foot/dry-foot policy' and 'natrualization by birth'.

I heard one woman (on the radio show) talk about how illegal immigration puts 'white-people' at a disadvantage, heard about people who know Mexicans, or their best friend is a Mexican (like I care). What was real pathetic is that local high school students in the hundreds decided that they would rather protest the immigration issue rather than go to school.

So the radio station shows up to the protest and some of these kids start to talk about 'how I am not getting an education'. Nice, it must be hard to be educated while you are in school.

Now to the beef....
***The idea to just simply ship everybody back to their country of origin is ridiculous. There could be an estimated 20 million illegal immigrants in the United States; why spend a year's defense budget ($500billion) on such a nonsensical approach? What simply happens is they walk right back across the border and we the US spend billions on jet fuel, pilots, planes, handcuffs, guns, ammo officers, people to process the illegals, people reprocess them, people to make sure they were processed, beurocrats to inform the president that people were processed and reprocessed and the best way to show this in the upcomming PR capmaign for the 2006 elections, etc.

The only way to deal with the so called 'problem' is to identify first what the problem is. And the problem is simple: no one knows exactly what the problem is, therefore there must be many problems.

Some problems include the ridiculous 'terrorism' problme. Ok, most of the terrorist on 9/11 did not walk across the Mexico/US border, sorry. Nor have many if any of the terrorist in Iraq or abroad or any other time in the US's history done so. So the problem is left at taxes (as a conglomaret of many of the remaining problems).

I think the best plan to quench tension is a gradual process of granting illegals work passes--not! There is no clear indication that they (illegals) will accept these passes; they may know and most likely do know precisely that any such action/step is simply a precursor to taxing their income. WHo wants to be taxed? Why would they want to be taxed? And who in their right mind signs up to be taxed?

I'd really like to think that there will not be a great too many illegal immigrants signing up to become US tax-paying citizens if they are granted citizen ship or allowed passes. My best guess leads me to believe that many are simply seeking money to send home, and do not want to be taxed.

So the best solution to the problems is simply to increase border patrols and rework perimeter modifications (or whatever dubious politcal crap name is thought up).

This is the US's only choice to deter and solve the problem.

Or, a good percent of Americans could get an education, become engineers and have immigrants (legal or not) come to this country to work the jobs that the now newly educated US populous no longer wants....but that ain't gonna happen!

[edit on 27-3-2006 by Frosty]

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I wouldnt want to ban the good immigrants which by every indication are the majority just the criminal ones. But the only way you can do that is through some form of regulation and control of who comes across the border.

Theres alot more immigrants that want to come into the US then just Mexicans and alot dont have the luxury of just hopping a border. They go through all the correct channels to come here. Is it really fair to them when criminal can just cross the border any time they want.

I totally agree with you and there is nothing wrong with legislation but making them all felons is not a reasonable solution. What are they going to encarcerate all of them and fly them back to their country? I also agree that mexican immigrants have the advantage over other immigrants, but if you're going to put the troops on the mexican border, they should also do the same along the canadian border where there are a lot of asian/middle eastern immigrants coming through.

I also think that illegal/legal immigrants who take part in criminal acts should be deported immediately; there is no second chance. I'm all for getting rid of the bad guys.

yeah, all those cruddy jobs no american will do? lol...please....bring some of those jobs around here. that is an excuse.

and this turning into a race issue tells you how far they are willing to go, hell they are yelling for civil war if this legislation passes. thats is crap!

no illegal immigrant should be able to drain resources at an unpresidented level, they should not be able to influence politics in your home country to such a drastic degree.

but.....slave labor......it isnt so much no one will do those jobs, its more that those offering the jobs want to pay out as little as possible to do them. naturally....

this legislation should pass and has my whole hearted support! ship them back!

if you want to stay here, learn english! get off the social programs!

otherwise build the american version of the berlin wall!

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
...
...
no illegal immigrant should be able to drain resources at an unpresidented level
...
...

The only group of peple draining american resources at an unprecedented level is ironically the president and his current administration....

iostream, You took the words right outta my mouth. Tough issue! I have worked with a few illeagles in the past when I was hard pressed for work. They work hard and are doing work I hope I dont ever have to do again.

i think when it comes to this subject the American govermint is coward...i mean it your countrey!! your govermint should realize this a little more.If theay say its illeagle for theese people to come over then theay SHOULD be locked in jail where no one can see theay exist.

I seen a thing on CNN talking about how many thousands and thousands! of theese people get in ur country every day! thats not onley obserd but just stupid....if i was the president of the u.s. i would build a big cement wall across it and put soldiers patrolling it..ANYONE! who crossed or was cought on the wall would be shot and killed on sight! it's ur countrey you have the right to protect it if that means killing a punch of poor people who onley gonna make it worse then so be it...who cares if the mexicans get pis*ed off theer govermint should be smart enough to help stop this crap.....but its not...and there people should be shot....just my opinion tho

The answer is simple, erect a series of 10 foot tall chain link fences all along the boarder.

Have them in sections, build one then space another one 4 feet away from it and a third one 6 feet from that one.

| = fence
- = empty spacing
|----|------|
|----|------|
|----|------|
|----|------|
|----|------|
|----|------|


This way they are slowed down while trying to "hop" the boarder.
Then boarder patrol can drive up and down the boarder and find people inside the fences climbing them and "kindly ask them to leave"

If you want to come to America do it the same way everyone else had to, either form a militia and start a revolution and win, or enter LEGALLY!!!