Can Muslims Be Good Americans???

Sympathetic to the Muslim cause???

Its more like the voice of reason. You are going to have an easier time planting your seeds of hate in a kindergarden class kid...

more like seeds of concern!!! i dont hate anybody!!

[edit on 22-3-2006 by the_sentinal]

Originally posted by the_sentinal
more like seeds of concern!!!

Show us the reason, display events in the Qu'ran where it state's such things that you claim. When you do, I'll be more than happy to explain their real meaning.

odium, are you a muslim....?

Ok, there sentinel...
I DO hate a specific type of Muslim... (and a specific type of person generally)
the ones that want to cause me harm.

I hate them, (and yes, I will want to cause them harm right back)

the funny thing about hate my friend is that you can't hate something that you dont love (or want to try to love)...

the hate results from the targets lack of being/doing what you want them to be/do
it takes someone who actually cares to hate...
for that i compliment you...

you want to love muslims you just cant see how...
they upset your expectations at every front
they upset your notions of peace
they upset you...

if you didn't care about them, then you wouldn't expend enough time/energy to hate

I think you show promise of gaining a better understanding thru this thread...
just please realize... Paint yourself with the same brush you paint others with... and your own logic will start to sink in in a different way...
Most muslims are just like you and I...
sure they have odd cultural and religious practices (to us)... but dont we all? (to them anyway)
you gotta open your mind a little, and realize that most of the rest of the world already does have an open mind...

I wish you the best in your gaining of knowledge...
hopefully beachcoma can help... he/she comes across as down to earth, as anyone i know... and that will help you gain a different perspective...

There have been quite a few Muslims that read that crap. Maybe you didnt realize that most of the replys have been opposition. Stop freaking out and go and meet some Muslims. You obviously know none. The world is full of them. If they all wanted to come get you, it would have happened long ago.

I am making today Buy a Muslim a Beer Day! It is everyones job to meet a Muslim, buy him/her a beer (or a Coke where applicable), and learn a little about their faith.

Sentinel...give up man...just give up...

Originally posted by the_sentinal
beachcoma, i thought you were gone for good.. this thread has gone haywire i had no idea so many people were so sympathetic to the muslim cause.........

What exactly do you mean by "muslim cause" and why do you consider us "sympathetic" to it? Can you please answer this question?

Nobody here has said they are sympathetic to terrotist Muslims.

We are sympathetic to those who do not terrorize, and are good American citizens.

Too much brainwashing by this government of some of these posters here.

Has Bush ever said the majority of Muslims are good law abiding people? I am sure that has skipped his mind.

Originally posted by the_sentinal
odium, are you a muslim....?

No, my grand-parents were immigrants from the U.S.S.R. just after the Second World War, due to this I grew up in the areas filled with immigrants. Thus, I live near Muslim's, live around them, have spoken to the local Imam's and so on and so fourth. Also we have a State Education here, so I know a lot about Islamic Culture. Unlike everyone else, they were not the one's to be rude about my family, even though they were Christian's even helping with employment offers after my parents divorce.

In my experience, Muslim's tend to be the best group of people. They tend to be the ones who have caused me directly less harm adn although many militant muslim's cause other people harm, that's not all of them. However, you have to understand violence [which is what terrorism is], isn't based on religion. That's not its route, if we elimited Religion we wouldn't elimiate violence. However, to shift all the blame onto Muslim's and to generalise it to them all [1.5billion+] only helps militants. They desire to see hate placed against decent law abiding muslims, in turn forcing them away from the culture and into their grasp.

in mohammads own word's.......Tabari IX:69 " killing disbelievers is a small matter to us"

what did he say ....

[edit on 22-3-2006 by the_sentinal]

Tabari VII:97/Ishaq:368 “We carried Ka’b’s head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah’s enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf’s head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah’s Cause. Our attack upon Allah’s enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.’”


why won't you people stop defending a system of religion that glorifies murder??

Qur’an 48:17 “There is no blame for the blind, nor is it a sin for the lame, nor on one ill if he joins not in the fighting. But he who retreats, (Allah) will punish him with a painful doom.”

peaceful muslims by this verse are a disgrace to there religion ........

this is way past kindergarden dafunk it is a war >>>>>>>>>>>wake up!!!

i submit to you that jesus is the only way .....no man can come to the father but by him..........this is the real religion of peace!!!

[edit on 22-3-2006 by the_sentinal]

This is low...by any stretch of the term.

You've shown something that was added in the 800's, long after Mohammed had died with the Tabari quotation. Muslim's are set to live by Mohammed and not Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Jarir at-Tabari. Furthermore, that's not a part of the Qu'ran but rather a commentry on it based on opinion - years after Mohammed died, by a person who never met him.

In fact, Tabari itself means "from Tabaristan," a region in Iran. Thus it is a Scholar from this region and any book by them is classed as a "tabari". Doesn't mean it is accepted by anyone but a minortity of Muslim's. Like Mormon's for Christian's.

Now, let us go to the quote you mention: Qu'ran 48:17. You decide to pick the quote in a mix of translations. However, I'll just explain. This means when people attack Islam with the sword or with the word, etc, you defend it. If you do not defend it, Allah will judge you not anyone on Earth but ALLAH/GOD will. It doesn't allow for him to be punished by anyone else.

Yusuf Ali translation
No blame is there on the blind, nor is there blame on the lame, nor on one ill (if he joins not the war): But he that obeys God and his Apostle,- (God) will admit him to Gardens beneath which rivers flow; and he who turns back, (God) will punish him with a grievous Penalty.

Also, Ishaq isn't a book in the Qu'ran. He was a Prophet - Isaac. I can list all 114 of the books for you, Tabari and Ishaq are not one of those. They're written by people, hundreds of years on making it up and changing it and then idiots quoting it. Come on, I'm sure you can do a better job than this.

Edit:

In fact, Ishaq:368 would in fact be, book 3, verse 68.
In other words, Aal-Imran and the quote:
"Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Abraham, are those who follow him, as are also this Apostle and those who believe: And God is the Protector of those who have faith.".

[edit on 22/3/2006 by Odium]

i submit to you that jesus is the only way .....no man can come to the father but by him..........this is the real religion of peace!!!

And here, folks, is the true meaning behind this entire thread. My God is better than your God. My God is less murderous and dispicable than your God. Sorry it took five pages to find the true culprit of this hate filled topic


Let me ask this one question - how many Americans do you personally know who have been killed on U.S. soil by a Muslim? Not talking 9/11 - how many?

If your true purpose here is to protect the lives of Americans, you would be much better off crusading against drunk driving or protesting against the fat soaked, additive filled poison that Americans eat on a daily basis. These things kill a lot more Americans than Muslims, by a long shot.

If your purpose here is to promote religious or racial intolerance (which from the above post would be my guess) or to promote unwarrented fear of a group of people who pose no threat to us, then by all means you have succeeded.

So Jesus is the only way to heaven...

I submit to you that you are wrong...
It was the Mormons ... Yes, the Mormons were the only correct answer...(southpark)

Do ya get the point?
it is one of the single most selfish, and stubborn statements for a supposed "Christian" such as you claim to be, to say in mixed company.

It tends to bother a few billion people that dont agree...

IMO there are several ways to god (heaven) and that God put them into so many different words, and books, so that all the different peoples could understand the gist...
it also serves as a challenge, to see if the various different beleivers in god, realize there is ONLY 1 god...
just many languages/interpretations that have evolved over the years...

it is also funny how most major religions protest that the WORD must never be altered, or changed...
but yet, in all cases, they have been...

why is it considerd low of me to quote a muslim odium? .......is it not what the prophet mohammed has said ???........

for someone who isnt a muslim you sure have alot of knowledge about what there writings mean...

i submit to you that jesus is the only way .....no man can come to the father but by him..........this is the real religion of peace!!!

Uh oh, so I guess I'm in trouble. You see Sentinel, I personally don't agree with this statement. A lot of wars have been started under this sort of thinking.

As I stated earlier, I was raised jewish and today live my life as a spiritualist. I believe in certain things and follow a certain code yet I am still a good american.

I pay my taxes, I never ever missed an episode of Baywatch and I would certainly lay down my life for my country if the cause is just unfortunately I am not a christrian, does this mean I must convert to be a good american in your eyes?

Wouldn't the world be a far more interesting and better place if we could all just accept the differences. Extremists on both sides have to start thinking rationally.

How can one god be better than the other and if they've got such a problem with eachother one would have to assume that omnipotent beings would have no need to use humans in their battles.

If they choose to fight their own wars through mortal blood then I would say both deities leave a lot to be desired.

Saying that Jesus is the only way is just as bad as someone saying Allah is the only way.

Let us all take our own way because in the end all roads lead to the same destination.

Except Druids, damn dirty hippies....just kidding.

Spiderj

Originally posted by the_sentinal
why is it considerd low of me to quote a muslim odium? .......is it not what the prophet mohammed has said ???........

No, it's not what he said. What you quote, is A) Out of Context or B) Not in the Qu'ran. That's low, you're making information up and knowingly posting false information on these forums for everyone to see.

Originally posted by the_sentinal
for someone who isnt a muslim you sure have alot of knowledge about what there writings mean...

It's called an "education" try it.