NEWS: Afghan Law: Reject Islam, You Die

Do we see that also in our society, that anybody who gets really upset over what's happening to us as a nation is thought to be crazy?

"Oh, that's just conspiracy-theory. He's a conspiracy-nut."

Never mind that individuals to whom I pay taxes claim that they are above the law.

Never mind that the majority of Justices on the Supreme Court now hold the doctrine of "unitary executive" to allow executives to skirt the Law.

Who is crazy, the people who object, protest and dissent; or, those who remain silent?

That's a hard question when so many "non-lethal weapons" are in use by protected authorities and their agents; and when slander, scapegoating and bounty-hunting are rewarded with Patriot Act provisions of informer-secrecy.

It's a dangerous world we live in nowadays, even for us old folks.

Now that this crisis appears to be over, or nearly over, I would like to draw attention to the man in question rather than the cause. In the brief clip I saw of Abdul Rahman, he presented as the very model of Christianity. Here was a man facing a death sentence and all he could speak of was the joy and peace of his faith, without so much as negative word against those who would have slaughtered him. I think his story would serve as a wonderful lesson for all humanity, Christian and non-Christian alike.

Ive read the accounts of dozens of Muslim Christians. First rate I tell you, why can't America be like that (ie: Latinamerican,Chinese, Arab, Asian, or so forth). Prosperity? Getting soft and decadent?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Now that this crisis appears to be over, or nearly over, I would like to draw attention to the man in question rather than the cause. In the brief clip I saw of Abdul Rahman, he presented as the very model of Christianity. Here was a man facing a death sentence and all he could speak of was the joy and peace of his faith, without so much as negative word against those who would have slaughtered him. I think his story would serve as a wonderful lesson for all humanity, Christian and non-Christian alike.

amen!

Originally posted by Nakash
Ive read the accounts of dozens of Muslim Christians.

Explain what you mean by 'Muslim Christians'. That term confuses me, like this Japanese made T-shirt:

Remember it's still not Taco Bell Instant Democracy, even if you wish it was.

The US rolled around in the slavery issue for decades before surmising it was wrong.

[edit on 26-3-2006 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by Nakash
Ive read the accounts of dozens of Muslim Christians.

Explain what you mean by 'Muslim Christians'. That term confuses me, like this Japanese made T-shirt:

Just like you get the term "Jewish-Muslim's" or "Jewish-Christian's". Roughly it means, you're born into one Religion grow up in that Religion and in your adult years shift to another.

mod edit to delete offensive,wrong content



[edit on 27-3-2006 by Riwka]

As a Christian, all I can say is, looks to me as if the Holy Spirit is at work in this man.

He's moving a mountain of opposition.

Wow.

Originally posted by Nakash
Let's quit the propaganda

I don't know what you've been presenting here, but I haven't presented any propaganda. THe simple fact is that in the region where christianity expanded and came to dominance, europe, there are no native religions any more, pagans were put to death if they didn't convert and their books, even non-religious ones, were destroyed. In the region where islam spread and came to dominance, you have a plethora of religions.

Most of these people were tortured:

Well, now who is citing propaganda? You are using a website that specifically exists to 'counter' islam to support your claims.

You stated that its a fact that apostates from islam are executed in those countries, where are the modern trials for such?

I bet there are a million Abdul Rahman's in Afghanistan.

?
Extremely doubtful. This is a state known as 'crypto-christianity', being christian, but outwardly appearing as another religion. It'd be surprising, to say the least, if there was a large number of crypto-christians in afghanistan, let alone a million.
Usually crypto-christian communities are communities that already were christian, but are dominated by another religion, so they pretend to be as such, not converts. There is no history of a solid christian community in afghanistan, and certainly not one that has existed all this time.

They released him by saying he was crazy

This is incorrect, some people were talking about that, but its not why he ended up being released for now.

I believe that when Ndygan was responding, he missed a (/quote) tag.

Did I? Apologies.

chaiyah99
Staying on in a Muslim environment is just asking for trouble.

Whats the sense in running from trouble all your life though?? I can understand the sentiment, but this man's family and life were in afghanistan, its good that he stood up to these bullies.

The court dismissed today the case against Abdul Rahman for a lack of information

Now he should sue the state for unlawful imprisonment.

GP
Now that this crisis appears to be over, or nearly over

Well, in all likelyhood, this is the start. WHen this guy ends up dead in a ditch in a few months, then it'll be back in the news.

chaiyah90
As a Christian, all I can say is, looks to me as if the Holy Spirit is at work in this man.

Lets see what 'work' that holy spirit does for him not that hes not safe in jail....

A question though. They are going to release him Monday but the clerics said if they did the people would simply grab him off the street and behead him instantly.

Are they going to move him out of the country?

You cannot justify murder like this for any religion. If your religion calls for murder, it is a sham and deserves no protection. Anything less is wrong.

Originally posted by nativeokie
They are going to release him Monday but the clerics said if they did the people would simply grab him off the street and behead him instantly.

I look at it this way. The cleric who is promoting the death penalty of this man should be held accountable if anything happens to this man after his release.

It's my belief that the ancient law of Hammurabi should be internationally reinstated.

Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc. should face the same laws and punishments.

Now that it looks like the man will be released and probably spirited out of the country I reask my question:

I wonder how much "good " conservative Christian outrage would there be if he had converted to Judaism, or Buddhism or Hinduism etc. I would like to think that the moral outrage would be there regardless since it is a human rights issue, but somehow, if that were the case, I seriously doubt we would hear a peep about it.

Originally posted by grover
I wonder how much "good " conservative Christian outrage would there be if he had converted to Judaism, or Buddhism or Hinduism etc.

"Christians" are rejecting Christianity by the droves everyday because they have a belief that everything will be perfect if they pray and read The Holy Bible. It seems to me that want a free ride and since things get tough, they wish to jump wagon onto other religions promises.

Jesus Christ said that the way may not be easy but it will be worthit.

Has anyone heard that the Devil will take care of his own?

The treasures so many seek in this life will be their reward and glory for eternity.

Hi Nygdan, how goes the cutest mod in ATs , on your claim that this guy was released in a fair and balanced way- I disagree, he was going to be released over "being crazy" or executed. The law is still the the books, I don't see anything improving here. Also, I don't believe in "crypto" Christianity, other religion may have this but I think it is an honour and a duty to suffer for your God's name. An honour- that's how it should be viewed. Being a coward may get you to heaven but it is sleazy and won't help the cause. What if all in North Africa decided to be "crypto-Christians" when Diocletian was killing everybody? What if in Rome everybody took the easy way out while Caligula,Tiberius, Nero or some other genocidal evil man was purging the empire? Answer- we wouldn't be here. Rahman is probably a light in Afghanistan. The holy spirit IS in him, it shows. Commendable.

Originally posted by Nakash
The law is still the the books, I don't see anything improving here

I'm not entirely sure how sharia and all that works, but I think that a big issue with it is mere interpretation. What is seen as against sharia in one district of afghanistan might, in another, but completely beyond its bounds or completely in accord with it. So I don't think that its 'on the books', strictly speaking. Truly though, the issue hasn't been decided. Even if he was found 'innocent', it still wouldn't have been really decided. The central afghan government has made the islamic religion a central part of the law of the state, and that is why these local religious courts are able to come up with these whacky decisions. Like in pakistan, where we hear about women being 'awarded' to another tribe for the purpose of raping her as restitution for some perceived wrong. Its not a law in pakistan, its that these sharia courts are given autonomy.

Also, I don't believe in "crypto" Christianity,

?
What don't you beleive??? Its an establish process, so is 'crypto-paganism' and 'crypto-judaism'. A person is one religion in secret, but when the authorities are visible, they pretend to be another one. Even within religion we sometimes see this sort of thing, likeas in turkey, I beleive, there are groups of muslims, who are indeed muslims, but when sunnis ran the show and sunni lords would come to town, everyone behaved as a sunni, but once they left, the hajibs came off and the wine skins were opened.

but I think it is an honour and a duty to suffer for your God's name

Well, a lot of christians would disagree and wouldn't permit themselves andeveryone around them to be destroyed and have their faith itself wiped out at such times.

What if all in North Africa decided to be "crypto-Christians" when Diocletian was killing everybody?

What does that matter? Many of them did. Hell, if the persectuion of the romans was as viscious as we are told, then most christians must've denied their faith publically, else the religion wouldn't even exist.

Nygdan the word for it is not crypto...whatever, it is called dissimulation and is premitted in the Quarn, condemned in other religions.

I am not apologizing for the Afghan or Islamic law about apostation...I just want to try and point out the cultural contexts that so many on here in their jingoism, seem incapable of considering.

Alot of people here in America call themselves conservatives but in many cultural contexts, it wouldn't even begin to apply. According to Karen Armstrong in her excellent "The Battle for God; a History of Fundamentalism" points out that cultures that are based around either a tribe, clan or the peasantry are deeply conservative in ways that we cannot even begin to grasp here. Their whole world view is conservative. The ultimate example I guess would be the dreamtime of the Australian aborigines. It is the same idea anyway. What we have was passed down from our ansestors and it would be heresy to change. Examples of this abound ranging from the way they plow the ground, to the boats they make, to what is considered a proper education, which is rarely more than just enough to get by. This is true even of the clergy and the ruling classes...remember, until the counter-reformation many priests had no idea what they were saying in the latin masses they offered, they had merely learned the sounds. It is no different. These societies hold long standing grudges (look at some of the things that fueled the Balkan wars to get the idea) and resent change. They are also very fragile societies, subject to famaine and drought to a degree we have far surpassed. Many of the things that we in the west find so objectionable about (some) Islamic practices pre-date Muhammad by in some cases thousands of years...that is conservative...that were merely adapted to fit in with the new religion. And when these societies feel (or are) threatened they react like all societies, by contracting and clinging that much harder to what they consider waht makes them most distinctivily themselves. And, almost all of the middle-eastern world considers itself threatened and nothing we have done has changed this opinion, and of course governments have encouraged the idea for their own purposes as well. Thus in such a context, to renounce ones faith, in a serious matter and not one of merely conversion, but in essence it is to renounce one's culture as well. It may not be the intent but that is beside the fact that it is how it is viewed, and as such seriously resented, especially if it is a conversion to the precieved enemy.

Does this man have the right to practice his faith? Of course he does, in our context...in the context of his tribal society, he has become a tratior, and four years of American occupation will not change those deeply seated views and is rather childish on our part to expect it.

Personally I wish the man well but that won't change the fact that I try and understand the context. To fail to do so is to profoundly simplify an ancient and complex world.

as of this morning, CNN is reporting that he may NOT get out, afterall.
the case has susposedly been turned back over to porsecuters. go figure.

thats the latest.

Originally posted by grover
Nygdan the word for it is not crypto...whatever, it is called dissimulation and is premitted in the Quarn, condemned in other religions.

I have no idea what the koranic word for it is, however historians call it crypto-"religion", like crypto-jews and crypto-christians, etc.

No offence to anyone but this law is just riduclulous. It should be on the list of the most stupid laws of all time - which includes laws such as:

In Devon, Connecticut, it is unlawful to walk backwards after sunset.

And...

In Marshalltown, Iowa, horses are forbidden to eat fire hydrants.

there is an article at
www.turkishweekly.net...

Involving the following:

• Afghan Supreme Court
  
• Pope Benedict XVI
  
• President Hamid Karzi
  
• Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, prominant Muslim scholar
  

-> He, Abdul Rahman, said he hears strange voices in his head.

...his files are being returned and reviewed by the Attorney General,
(?? possibly for another angle to prosecute him?? )

[edit on 27-3-2006 by St Udio]