NEWS: Afghan Law: Reject Islam, You Die

NOT Originally posted by Ndygan

I'd would love to read it and see what the muslim community is doing to help make the world a better, more peaceful, more tolerant place to live in.

First - I think there is a mistake here. If you go back to the post that Ndygan responded to, you will see that I originally posted the statement above. I believe that when Ndygan was responding, he missed a (/quote) tag. Perhaps he meant to parrot my words back to me for some reason, but it isn't apparent to me.

Originally posted by grover
If you listen to the news mongers, it certianly looks like the Islamic community is awash in terror, intolerance and misbenighted...

Yes it sure does.

the people protesting in the streets are almost always government or other politically staged events

Including the ones in France a few months back? How about the thousands upon thousands who violently protested the Danish cartoon? Were those just politically staged events too?

...if you grouped all the extreme elements together in one place and counted noses, I would hazzard a guess that they wouldn't amount to 1% of the billion and better Muslims in the world, who as I said want to be left alone, both by the west and the terrorists as well.

Interesting though that the Afghans chose a form of government and wrote their constitution in a way that gurantees a conflict with the west...

So, with your intolerance I ask...What are you doing to make the world a better place?

I'm just posting a story on ATSNN and expressing an opinion. What are you, the thought police?

Punishment for conversion from Islam or attempting to convert people from Islam seems widespead.
Algeria has just passed a law that will send people to prison for up to five years if they attempt to convert people.

You also can not partice any religion except Islam except in buildings approved for that purpose.

adnki

The Algerian parliament has approved a law punishing anyone trying to convert a Muslim to other religions with up to five years in jail. The law, which was drafted by the government, states that anyone "attempting to call on a Muslim to embrace another religion" can be sentenced from two to five years in jail or is liable to pay a fine of up to 10,000 euros.

The senate this week gave the final approval to the law, which is mainly aimed at countering the "the aggressive attempt by Christians to win converts."

Anyone manufacturing, publicising or simply keeping publications or audo-visual material threatening the Islamic faith is liable of the same punishment.

The law also bans practicing any religion except Islam "outside buildings allocated for that," which need a special license from authorities.

[edit on 25-3-2006 by AceOfBase]

No I am not the thought ploice and I don't want the job thank you very much...but when you accuse a whole group of people, a religion in this case, composed of various cultures across the planet with over a billion followers of not doing anything good for the world; it begs the question, what are you doing good for it.

Let's talk about judging people on the basis of their beliefs, rather than their behavior.

It's quite common for Liberals and Conservatives to "go at it," despite the fact that behavior is not in question, and everyone involved is a law-abiding person.

It was just as common 800 years ago for Catholics to "go after" those whose idea of God did not correctly correspond with their idea of the "Trinity," again, without regard to the behavior of the "heretic."

Today, people take sides on cognitive and procedural debates; and yet when push comes to shove, they act in ways that are law-abiding and peace-keeping, all together.

I think the necessity is upon us to discriminate between dogma and behavior.

Where I live, in "affordable housing," most the other residents are aliens with green cards who speak almost no English; but they follow the rental rules down to the gnat's eyelash because they know they'll be evicted if they don't.

The man in Afghanistan who converts to Christianity would do well to move out. The Jew in Israel who converts to Christianity would do well to leave. There is a certain commonsense to living among the people who have the same values as yourself. Our poor hero should have gotten the hell out of there a long time ago, if he wanted to live by Christian mores and norms.

Staying on in a Muslim environment is just asking for trouble.

Or, is this not obvious?

So we should kick out Muslims in America according to your reasoning? This is undefendable, we don't treat our minorities like that, mutual respect. I have never seen mutual respect from hardcore Muslims in their own turf, only from well learned apostates who either left Islam or still think the Quran is a guide to peace and that the Mullahs are ignorant hicks (but don't read it. I feel sorry for them actually, they think their fellow muslims are deceived and don't understand their behaviour, but it's actually taught within their scriptures).

[edit on 25-3-2006 by Nakash]

Of course not.

America is where Diversity works. My neighbors don't speak English very well, but we all live by the same rules and we all have to get along.

But other nations that want to be Theocratic may not be as hospitable to Diversity as we are. And PERHAPS a theocracy may be allowed to exist along side or in general proximity to a democracy, monarchy or republic without too much trouble.

Maybe if I lived in a theocracy and I didn't want to do the usual thing, I would give some thought to leaving.

Eh?

I'd stay. That's selfish in my opinion (to stay here where it's safe and not reach out to Muslims out of cowardice). Of course that's for Christians, secular individuals should probably get out. Either way, Al Qaeda want's to kick out all non-muslims from Muslim nations, why should we give in (I'm not saying that we should stay out of bellingerence, but why satisfy a terrorist wish in any form? Why give in to extremism?)

Well, it appears that some nations are monolithic, and they pull it off.

China seems to operate that way. Ancient Israel was a theocracy; although they fell away from that model (for bitter or better, I dunno).

If a nation as a whole chooses and consents to being monolithic, then the issue becomes, How civilized are they about those in their midst who change their minds and/or decide to leave? If they don't consent, can they at least GO?

I admit, it's a very sticky, uncomfortable feeling to even talk to traveling to a nation where everybody has to think the same way. Eek. I think I'd rather go to the dentist and have my teeth worked on than be required to think some certain way. That's impossible for me to even grokk. I change my mind too often, to be confined to one certain way of thinking.

there was an article in our newpapers a week or so ago about the number of hispanics who are converting from the catholic religion to Islam. I wonder how many of these converts would rethink their position if they knew there are ALOT of muslims who feel that leaving Islam, once in it, if punishable by death....

can our government bluff and get away with it?? because I sure would like to see the reaction out of the Islamic countries if some of our elected officials started trying to pass laws against these conversions to Islam (for the people's own safety of course, I mean, once your in, you can't get out, at least not without the fear of death, right?)...and well, slap a five year jailtime on just for fun.....
mind you, I wouldn't want to see such laws passed...just the reaction such propositions cause around the globe. considering what a few cartoons did, I think this would be just as unsettling.....although, of course, they think it is perfectly fine to have a similar policy.

KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan court on Sunday dismissed a case against a man who converted from Islam to Christianity because of a lack of evidence, and he will be released soon, an official said.

link

Charges dropped. But from some of the sentiments I've heard expressed against this guy from over there, I have a simple bit of advice for him when he is released.

RUN!

Yeah, Run. There are some monolithic cultures that it is very hard to escape from.

Recently, I rented a room to an Israeli who was fleeing because he had converted to Christianity, and the Hasidic Jews in his area (Los Angeles) saw him as a threat to their culture. So they stalked his customers, and they put him out of business.

I knew an Amishman at the University when I was there in the 90s, who was experiencing the same sort of reprisals for the act of going to college.

Some cultures just don't take lightly, the act of walking away. I believe the New World Order is one of these. Have you noticed how the list of suicidings and assassinations lengthens by the month--people who were active whistleblowers suddenly--being gone?

We live on dangerous times, to be sure.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising

KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan court on Sunday dismissed a case against a man who converted from Islam to Christianity because of a lack of evidence, and he will be released soon, an official said.

link

Charges dropped. But from some of the sentiments I've heard expressed against this guy from over there, I have a simple bit of advice for him when he is released.

RUN!

Let's be honest, we have people like that world over don't we. It's because the people do not run and stand their ground that things change.

Well said Odium. Only through standing our ground in the face of oppression will we have a hope of ending the reign of the oppressors.

That being said, I still have no wish to see another martyr to the cause. Picking and choosing where and when to stand one's ground is crucial to having another opportunity to do so.

Like Sun Tzu said, "First put yourself beyond any possibility of defeat, then engage the enemy."

Originally posted by ChemicalLaser

the people protesting in the streets are almost always government or other politically staged events

Including the ones in France a few months back?...

I just wanted to comment on this for a sec, because I have seen this been brought up a few times on ATS whenever there is a thread about muslims rioting and whatever.
The riots in Paris where no religious riots, they where deffenetely political (a lot of people love to make it an religious issue, on both sides). Maybe the majority of kids rioting there where muslim, because thats the biggest part of immigrants pushed into the banlieux, but don't make that a religious issue. There where a lot of christians rioting too back then. Its best compaired with the riots you guys in the US had in LA in the begin 90's.

If you like to get a broader picture on what went on there, watch the film 'La Heine', that should explain a little more about the situation (allthough the movie is from the mid 90's and the situation has gotten a lot worse since then.)

It was a religious riot. How do I know? Because one of the things the rioters asked was to impose Sharia law on the areas they lived so they could stop rioting.

[edit on 26-3-2006 by Nakash]

Originally posted by Nakash
It was a religious riot. How do I know? Because one the things the rioters asked was to impose Sharia law on the areas they lived so they could stop rioting.

Oh, I see, because ONE of the rioters asked to impose Sharia law, it suddenly became religious riots. Makes sence.
I allways thought it had to do with a large part of the youth there having no jobs, no future, being seperated from the city by large pieces of no-mans land, no public transport into and out of the city, and in general a lot of hate towards police and the system, wich puts them in ghetto's with absolutely no prospect for the future.

But now i know, ONe of the rioters asked to impose Sharia law, makes sence. Please people, it's not that simple, deny ignorance!

You know that's not what happened, I think that the jobs issue is overblown. Why would the riots spread to every single city in France? Why didn't any in the Muslim community not speak out? I saw more than one Imam claiming the Dhimmitude was underway during the riots, and the fact remains that several of the rioters asked for Sharia law.

update


Abdul Rahman expected to be released from custody at the end of the day!

CNN

"The court dismissed today the case against Abdul Rahman for a lack of information and a lot of legal gaps in the case," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter. AP said the official has been closely involved with the matter.

Let's not get too awefully happy; he's not outof the woods , yet....

An official closely involved with the case told The Associated Press that it had been returned to the prosecutors for more investigation, but that in the meantime, Rahman would be released

www.foxnews.com...

I bet there are a million Abdul Rahman's in Afghanistan. This was probably one case they picked up. I know how the media works. They released him by saying he was crazy, not much better.