The Fact is, Jesus is the prophesied Messiah

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Prot0n
Is this why you WON'T answer the point's we raise but instead resort to wad comments?

Apparently only 'facts' that fit the bible are alloud to be admitted into this discussion.. all others must be ignored or dismissed as being 'off topic'.. especially if they involve science and reality.



[edit on 29-3-2006 by riley]

Riley, take your exact question down to the origins forum. I will be happy to discuss it there.

Noah has the SAME three sons ... TWICE? You know what a recap is?

It still doesn't matter how old he was in either instance. Simple mathmatics is all that's needed. 600-500 = ? You do the math and quit avoiding and twisting.

I dropped the Isaiah issue because you basically answered it already. The issue surrounding that little problem should be quiet obvious, and as I mentioned earlier, it may not seeing as how your still having trouble with the Noah issue and unable to work out simple mathmatics. Unlike you, neither me nor mytym have "dogged" anything.

And it's quiet cute, now your trying to bring up another issue STILL avoiding your error in Noah. Won't work. One issue at a time. Show us the 120 years.

Riley,

Problem is, Sun is unable to even discuss the fact's as portrayed in the bible. He's only concerned with his opinions, this has nothing to do with fact's. This is why he avoids them and change's the subject to something else. Childish diversionary tactics when cornered against the proverbial wall.

Stumped huh? Thought so.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Riley, take your exact question down to the origins forum. I will be happy to discuss it there.

We are talking about Noah and the accuracy of the bible.. NOT creationalism or evolution. If I posed this question it would be sent HERE.. so lets pretend I've done that already..

WHEN WAS NOAH'S FLOOD?

You state things as fact then either refuse, avoid or deflect requests for evidence.. it has now become painfully obvious that you cannot come up with an answer that fits in with scientific fact and the bible so are desperately running away from it. Noah's story wasn't fact.. [possibly village was flooded] so it stands to reason a great many other things in the bible are not fact as well.. including other charactors in it. How can you state these things as fact when they are unverifiable and are easily debunked?

Originally posted by ProtOn
Childish diversionary tactics when cornered against the proverbial wall.

Agreed. He's out of his depth. [Get it.. Noah/depth bad joke sorry]

[edit on 29-3-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Stumped huh? Thought so.

Quit avoiding the issue Sun. All your showing is how YOUR stumped. Your missing 20 years. Where'd they go Sun? Are you unable to do math? Is this the real issue we're seeing here?

Originally posted by Prot0n

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Stumped huh? Thought so.

Quit avoiding the issue Sun. All your showing is how YOUR stumped. Your missing 20 years. Where'd they go Sun? Are you unable to do math? Is this the real issue we're seeing here?

Actually, I'm dealing with the issue head on. Answer my question and it all becomes clear. But you know that.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Actually, I'm dealing with the issue head on. Answer my question and it all becomes clear. But you know that.

End of 5, he's 500. Onset of flood, he's 600. No amount of word play can change what 600-500 equals. Sorry, just how it is buddy. Thanks for promoting ignorance. I'm out of this thread before I get really pissed. I can feel it coming. Really agravating trying to hold a discussion with someone unable to do god damn simple math.

the TRUE meaning of the word messiah is not of a holier than thou God-man, Messiah means a rightous king who will unite Israel and Judah.

SunMatrix,

Don't know if this has been brought up, but how would it affect your argument if the Jewish prophecies themselves were made up? Read, NOT true.

Sunmatrix,

Have you ever read the story of Noah in Genesis as a whole? It is full of incoherencies and lies and it is physically impossible for Noah to do what is implied in the story.

G

Originally posted by shihulud
Sunmatrix,

Have you ever read the story of Noah in Genesis as a whole? It is full of incoherencies and lies and it is physically impossible for Noah to do what is implied in the story.

G

What lies? I am not aware of any lies????

It is physically impossible(by the laws that we know) for a man to rise from the dead.

Originally posted by truthseeka
SunMatrix,

Don't know if this has been brought up, but how would it affect your argument if the Jewish prophecies themselves were made up? Read, NOT true.

I would say due to the accuracy, that it would be mathematically impossible for that to happen.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
What lies? I am not aware of any lies????

Aside from this one ^ ..I've mentioned them in my other posts. You have refused to answer them.

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
What lies? I am not aware of any lies????

Aside from this one ^

..I've mentioned them in my other posts. You have refused to answer them.

I'm sorry, I'm just sure I responded. I think it went something like this:

Riley, take your exact question down to the origins forum. I will be happy to discuss it there.

That doesn't appear to me to be a refusal to answer. Maybe you failed to notice the "play nice" warning from the Mods. I only did as instructed. I did check for a thread and there was not one there.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by shihulud
Sunmatrix,

Have you ever read the story of Noah in Genesis as a whole? It is full of incoherencies and lies and it is physically impossible for Noah to do what is implied in the story.

G

What lies? I am not aware of any lies????

It is physically impossible(by the laws that we know) for a man to rise from the dead.

What about in Gen 6.5-6.7 god says that he will wipe man, beast, creeping things and birds of the Earth but in Gen 6.18-6.20 god saves man, beast, creeping things and birds (but then again god is quite prone to promising/stating things and not doin them).
In Gen 5.32 Noah was 500 when he had his 3 sons, which in a way is a lie because he wasn't 500 when he had his 1st.
The amount of space available on the Ark is insufficient for all the animals/foodstuffs (which by the way started with 7 of each then to 2 and then a mix of both - cant make up their mind). The Ark itself is an impossibility (too large).
The flood itself never happened to the degree that is stated, there is not enough water on the Earth to cover the mountains and the "vapour canopy" would raise the Earths temperature to unlivable levels. It was probably a localised flood.
And no it is not impossible for a man to rise from the dead, there has been quite a few incidences of dead people coming back to life. So why should we take the Noah story as truth?, in fact why should we take the bible as truth?

G

What about in Gen 6.5-6.7 god says that he will wipe man, beast, creeping things and birds of the Earth but in Gen 6.18-6.20 god saves man, beast, creeping things and birds (but then again god is quite prone to promising/stating things and not doin them).

I think you will find your answer in the next verse.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

In Gen 5.32 Noah was 500 when he had his 3 sons, which in a way is a lie because he wasn't 500 when he had his 1st.

Well, we know that Jepheth is the elder.

Genesis 10:21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born after the flood.

We know that Shem was 100 years old, two years after the flood, making Noah 502 when he was born.

Genesis 11:10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:

I believe Noah being 500 and having a son Japheth, being 501 and having a son Ham, and being 502 and having a son Shem, works out perfectly.

The amount of space available on the Ark is insufficient for all the animals/foodstuffs (which by the way started with 7 of each then to 2 and then a mix of both -cant make up their mind).

This is just a statement. You need a mathematical calculation to back this up.

The Ark itself is an impossibility (too large).

First it's too small and now it's too large. I have seen many different shows saying that the dimensions and shape of the ark were perfect for housing the animals and sea worthiness. I realize that a lot of that stuff on TV is bull, but these were experiments they were showing. Science.

The flood itself never happened to the degree that is stated, there is not enough water on the Earth to cover the mountains

How high were the mountains before the flood? How deep were the seas? I'm sure the surface of the earth changed drastically from the weight of the water.

and the "vapour canopy" would raise the Earths temperature to unlivable levels.

Is is usually hotter on a cloudy day or a sunny day?

So why should we take the Noah story as truth?,

Well, because we want to be right, I can find no reason to disbelieve the story, but plenty of reasons to believe it is true.

in fact why should we take the bible as truth?

Put it to the test. It can't be disproved, and yet, it can be proved.

Sun Matrix:
Could you please stop disguising your opinions as facts? Alternatively if you wish to continue with this tactic, you should incorporate the words "to me" after these statements. For example: It (The Bible) can't be disproved, and yet, it can be proven TO ME. Let me know if you require any help in adopting this method as you may mislead people by giving them the impression that your opinions are facts.

[edit on 2/4/06 by mytym]

Originally posted by mytym
Sun Matrix:
Could you please stop disguising your opinions as facts? Alternatively if you wish to continue with this tactic, you should incorporate the words "to me" after these statements. For example: It (The Bible) can't be disproved, and yet, it can be proven TO ME. Let me know if you require any help in adopting this method as you may mislead people by giving them the impression that your opinions are facts.

[edit on 2/4/06 by mytym]

Can you disprove the Bible? Many of those that try become Christians. Fact.

Can the Bible be proven? Sure if you really want to face facts. Plenty of history and prophecies to check. Many cities have been found using the Bible. Fact.

Let me know if you require any help proving the Bible, because it is my opinion that even you can.

[edit on 2-4-2006 by Sun Matrix]

[edit on 2-4-2006 by Sun Matrix]

I'm sure I could disprove the Bible if I tried, I'm also sure that it can't be proven. Sure some elements of the Bible can be proven, perhaps many, but in order to prove the Bible is COMPLETELY factual, proving some elements will not suffice. In order to prove something COMPLETELY factual you must prove all of it, not some or 25% or 50 % or even 99.9999999%, but ALL 100% of what it says. However to prove a lie, only the smallest detail needs to be disproven. After all there are few falsehoods that do not contain some factual elements, are there not?

Regardless of this, the real question is whether your statements are opinions or facts, and I have already proven that they are opinions. You seem to be getting the gist of informing others that you are expressing your opinion in your last post, I'm proud of you. It's a hard habit to break, so keep at it, and remember to add "TO ME" and "IN MY OPINION" whenever you are tempted to disguise your opinions as facts.

Put it to the test.

According to biblical text's, when was Babylon built and by whom?

This is just for a start Sun. Although I am STILL awaiting your answer on a simple math problem. Did you hit a dead end?