The Fact is, Jesus is the prophesied Messiah

The Matrix that blinds the world originated in Babylon with Nimrod. The lie originates with Nimrod becoming Baal, the sun god. The lie swept across the world in different variations and forms, hence the name, Sun Matrix

You can trace the mark into religions across the world. The purpose of this Matrix of the "sun god" is to blind people from seeing the "Son of God".

Sun Matrix:
Who in the world in particular, is being blinded from the truth? You say all of these religions are teaching satans message, or something to that effect, yet the truth can be found by reading the Bible. Have I got it right so far? Therefore all of those who do not follow any religion are not being blinded by these religious teachings are they? This limits the number of people being blinded to just the religious. As far as I am aware, the majority of religious people also follow the teachings in the Bible (for christians) or whatever Holy book is the equivalent in their religion. If this is the case they are not blinded by the truth either as they know the truth by reading the Bible. This leaves a very small minority, that are religious, yet don't adhere to the teachings of the Bible or it's equivalent. Hardly a message blinding the world, wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The facts say Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah. Can you prove it is not so?
Bring your facts.

You are the one making the claim therefore, the burden of proof is on you. I have read this whole thread and I have still yet to see one shred of "proof" that Jesus is in fact the messiah or that he even existed for that matter. All you have done is present your OPINION, which is quite different than presenting facts.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

As for the Sun God, though you could interpret them symbolicaly as "sun worshipers" ironicaly the moon is of greater spiritual significance to them.

Sun, moon, stars. Different variations of the same lie that originated in Babylon.

That is exactly the irony, the Hindu "Ideas" developed long before any Babylon religion, so such a connection cannot be framed.

Well, It's just like the Vatican being full of the symbol of the sun. Catholics are not sun worshipers and yet their religion originated in Babylon. The mark of the sun is there.

I used to be a catholic and I havent seen much mention of the sun, moon or stars in the Bible or in most catholic churches. The only thing pagan there is the Two planks of wood at right angles with a crucified body on it. Where exactly is the sun here?
The halo is not there in most churches and nethier are the stars, moon etc.

Do you consider the star of David as a "babylon" symbol also ? what about the menorah; candles-> fire-> sun ?? In this way you can draw symbols from everything realting it to the either the sun or the moon or the stars or whatever.- Baal.

How's it going Sun Matrix? Having fun?

Well, It's just like the Vatican being full of the Symbol of the Sun. Catholics are not sun worshipers and yet their religion originated in Babylon. The mark of the Sun is there.

I used to be a Catholic and I havent seen much... of the Sun... in most Catholic Churches.

Well I sure have! files.abovetopsecret.com... = Sun Symbol!

Sun Matrix does have a point about Pagan Sun Worship/Symbols (Life IS dependent on the Sun after all) and Ancient roots in Babylon. The Israelites WERE enslaved in Babylon as well as Egypt (Kemet) for a while.

Another correct point is that even though Judaism is quite old - the Hindu Religion/Concepts are in fact OLDER.

Lets look at this from a detached point of view - is Christianity not the result of the gradual blending/merging of Judaic & Pagan concepts over time? Was this not the inevitable result of peoples & cultures coming together over time to form new societies/cultures on the ruins of the old?

[edit on 12-5-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 12-5-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

That is exactly the irony, the Hindu "Ideas" developed long before any Babylon religion, so such a connection cannot be framed.

Impossible. Dig deeper here. You should find some conflicting dates that should raise a few flags.

I used to be a catholic and I havent seen much mention of the sun, moon or stars in the Bible

For the sun god in the Bible, look for Baal, Molech or Bel.

or in most catholic churches. The only thing pagan there is the Two planks of wood at right angles with a crucified body on it. Where exactly is the sun here?

Everywhere...............I think the question is, "where isn't the sun god"

For a quick overview:

Roman emperor Constantine, a High Priest in the worship of the sun god backed the Bishops of Rome and attempted to take over the Christian church. This was done because the attempt to kill all believers in the Messian failed. Instead, the Catholic church was formed. Constantine did many things to blind the world from the truth.

One thing that Constantine did was to change the worship of God from the Sabath as was in the Commandments to "SUNDAY".

Another thing that Contantine did was make the celebration of the birth of the Messiah, December 25th. Do some quick research and you will find that December 25th is actually the birthday of the sun god Baal. Baal means Lord, so the sun god becomes Lord. You see, the world doesn't realize that they are actually worshiping the birth of the "sun god" instead of God's son.

In the Vatican courtyard, you will find an Oblisk, from Egypt. The oblisk is actually the representation of the male sex organ of the sun god. Research it, you will see that it is so.

You will also find a huge sun wheel in the Vatican courtyard and also the Cross of Baal, the sun god. There are sun symbols all over the Vatican.

On the altar of the Catholic church you will find a golden sunburst with a glass center that the "host" is put in. The priest not only raises the host in the air but also raises the sunburst. (I don't recall the name of this object and don't feel like looking it up.) You will find it on the altar of any Catholic church.

On the host are the letters I, H, S. These letters stand for Isis, Horus and Seth. Isis is a moon goddess, Horus is the Egyptian version of the sun god.

The URI-logo is a 8-pointed-swastika; also known as 'the star of Isis' or 'the star of Ishtar'. Isis is one of the persons of the sungod-trinity. In fact: this is the same trinity as the one the Roman Catholic Church believes in. This trinity is also known as 'IHS', which means Isis, Horus and Seth; a sungod-cult. And it is the same trinity the Buddhists, Hindoes, Free Masons, Wicca and satanists are worshipping.

The Catholic communion has been practiced by pagans long before the birth of Christ. They used similar round wafer bread cakes in the shape of the sun.

The practice of lent actually is a pagan custom also. Look it up, the info is available.

The Popes Mitre (hat) is taken from the "fish god" Dagon. Dagon is mentioned in the Bible also. That is why the Catholics gave up meat and ate fish on Friday. Dagon by the way is one of the many names for Nimrod.

The Pope also wears the cross of Baal on his vestments.

There is more, but that out to give you something to research. The lie that blinds the world originates in Babylon. It is the Satan, (Baal), who deceives the world.

Catholics are taught salvation through works. The truth is that you are saved through faith in the risen Messiah. By the way, I was raised Catholic.

Who in the world in particular, is being blinded from the truth?

Anyone who does not except the Messiah as their personal savior.

You say all of these religions are teaching satans message, or something to that effect, yet the truth can be found by reading the Bible. Have I got it right so far?

Basically

Therefore all of those who do not follow any religion are not being blinded by these religious teachings are they? This limits the number of people being blinded to just the religious.

No need to blind the blind man, he is already blind. Religion is used to blind those seeking the truth, no need to blind the man that is not seeking.

As far as I am aware, the majority of religious people also follow the teachings in the Bible (for christians) or whatever Holy book is the equivalent in their religion. If this is the case they are not blinded by the truth either as they know the truth by reading the Bible. This leaves a very small minority, that are religious, yet don't adhere to the teachings of the Bible or it's equivalent.

Hardly a message blinding the world, wouldn't you agree?

Catholism, Islam, Mormonism, Masonism etc. are religions of works designed to keep a person from realizing that they are saved through faith in the Messiah. Works are filthy rags before God as all sin and fall short. Only those that accept the free gift of salvation through faith in Jesus the Christ will be saved. Those people that follow Atheism have no need of being blinded, they are already blind.

Another correct point is that even though Judaism is quite old - the Hindu Religion/Concepts are in fact OLDER.

Yes, this is true, and yet, is it before God? No.

You seem to have a lot of knowledge, SS, but you are missing the truth. The fact that Hindu religious concepts predate Judism seems to have you lost and confused. Judism did not come about until the Law was given to Moses, and yet we can trace God to the beginning with Adam. Christianity did not come about until there were believers in the risen Messiah, and yet the first prophecy of the Messiah can be traced to Genesis.

The lie that blinds the world did not occur until Nimrod and Babylon. From there it spread all over the world, including into Hinduism. Yes, this predates Judism and Christianity, but does not predate the promises of God.

Lets look at this from a detached point of view - is Christianity not the result of the gradual blending/merging of Judaic & Pagan concepts over time?

No, Christianity is the result of the fulfillment of the Jewish prophesies including the fact that the Jews would not see the Messiah when he came. So it was prophesied, and so it came to pass.

Was this not the inevitable result of peoples & cultures coming together over time to form new societies/cultures on the ruins of the old?

No, not at all. God kept a people to himself, the Jews. They were spread all over the world for 2000 years and yet did not blend into other cultures but kept their own language and traditions. Any other peoples on earth would be blended together within three generations, I would think.

Sun ... look more into the similarities of Jesus and Horus. With your last few post's, I'm surprised you still think jesus was the messiah, granted you can't find anything durring his supposed life on earth written about him. Horus and jesus, along with a bunch of other's are all the same people. Same story. Same life. Same teachings.

Sun Matrix:
If anyone that doesn't accept Jesus as the risen Messiah is blinded by the truth, then why would you include christians in this group. Don't christians accept Jesus as the risen Messiah? As for the currently blind people that are not religious, they most definitely are not being blinded from the truth because, as you say, you cannot blind someone who is already blind. So who does that leave? Judaism?

It also seems that those behind christianity spreading satan's message, have overlooked the most important factor. That is to stop advocating the Bible as it unravels all of the deceptions they have put in place. It is astounding how the could have blinded anyone, let alone the whole world, with such a glaring oversight, isn't it?

Originally posted by Prot0n
Sun ... look more into the similarities of Jesus and Horus. With your last few post's, I'm surprised you still think jesus was the messiah, granted you can't find anything durring his supposed life on earth written about him. Horus and jesus, along with a bunch of other's are all the same people. Same story. Same life. Same teachings.

Hi Prot0n, hope you have been well.

Finally, I agree with you. SAME STORY, SAME LIFE, SAME TEACHINGS.

Now, go to the point of origin, Babylon.

Nimrod, Baal, Tammuz and Semiramis. Just like Egyptian version Osiris, Ra, Horus and Isis.

Same story, same life, same teachings.

All designed to keep you from seeing the "Son of God", the Messiah. Instead you get the "sun god" and the lie. Satan deceives the whole world with this story.

Ok ... Atleast we agree for once. Sort of. What I don't understand is, what sources are you using to proclaim Jesus is the messiah? It can't be biblical as those sources tell the same story as the life of Horus and the others. I've not once seen nor heard of anything else outside the bible about Jesus. You can't find anything written durring his life and everything written 30 years after his supposed death is nothing more then a recap of Horus and Co.

So where are you personally getting that Jesus was the messiah if you agree that the sources teach the same as Horus and Co. ???

Molech = Sun God? Were did you get that from (Oh yeah its all a Sun God according to you)?

Baal = Satan? Were did you get that from (Oh yeah its all a Satan according to you)?

Oh yeah everyone that Practices or Believes anything that *YOU PERSONALLY* do not Practice or Believe is a "Evil Satanist" (to you - in your personal view) - I forgot! Let me ask you Sun Matrix - what do you hope to achieve by Patronizing people?

Christ said "I am the Light & the Life". Is not the SUN also the LIGHT & the LIFE? Is there not enough room for the SUN (& the Moon & the Planets) & Christ & Man in Gods Universe?

The Fact is, Jesus is the prophesied Messiah

Really? Prove it. Jesus was made into the messiah by a bunch of power hungry people that wanted to form a new religion to control the masses.....

TMolech = Sun God? Were did you get that from (Oh yeah its all a Sun God according to you)?ext

Baal = Satan? Were did you get that from (Oh yeah its all a Satan according to you)?

Maybe an internet search would help you.

[edit on 14-5-2006 by Sun Matrix]

Jesus was made into the messiah by a bunch of power hungry people that wanted to form a new religion to control the masses.....

Are you sure? What makes you say this?

For this I will be exclusively using the Tanakh. Since Christians look down upon Jews of the time period (and today) for not accepting Jesus as Messiah I think that is only fair seeing as how the so called NT did not exist then.


1. Nowhere in the Torah is it stated that the messiah will be born of a virgin. I am aware that this has been stated before in this thread and each time you ignore it and then loudly proclaim again that some big prophesy was fulfilled by his being born to Mary, a supposed virgin. There has never been any such prophesy!!! Period. Christians point to Isaiah 7:14 “Behold : The young woman (almah) will give birth!” The word almah was mistranslated as virgin. It actually means young woman or young maiden; it is never translated as virgin. The word for virgin is besulah. Isaiah 7:14 is not even talking about the messiah; most scholars agree that it is speaking of King Hezekiah. So there you go, no prophesy no fulfillment.

2. Nowhere in the Torah is it stated that the messiah will be anything but a great leader. At the time Jesus purportedly lived it was unheard of to think of the messiah as a deity. They rejected the idea of a human god as this was part of pagan religions. The idea of a G-d in human form to Jews is nothing but blatant idolatry. The messiah is not someone to be worshiped as he is just a man. Even if Jesus had become very popular in Israel and every one of them thought he was the messiah (which he wasn’t and they didn’t), as soon as he died it would have been the end of story. You cannot be the messiah if you are dead.

3. There is no tradition of a second coming in the messiah stories, EVER! This is a pagan idea that was adopted by early Christians. If you cannot do it in one lifetime you are not the real deal, sorry Jesus you just didn’t cut it.

4. The messiah is to build the third temple. Zechariah 6:12 “Thus said the Lord of Hosts: Behold, a man called the Branch shall branch out from the place where he is , and he shall build the Temple of the Lord.” (Branch means the future King of David’s line). Did Jesus build a Temple? No? Hmmmm….

5. The messiah will rule as King. Zechariah 6:13 “He shall build the Temple of the Lord and shall assume majesty, and he shall sit on his throne and rule…” Did Jesus ever gin control of Israel and rule as King? No? Hmmm…..

6. The messiah will bring peace to Israel and the entire world. Isaiah 2:4 “Thus he will judge among the nations. And arbitrate for the many peoples. And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruning hooks: Nation shall not take up sword against nation; they shall never again know war.”
Jeremiah 23:5-6 “… He shall reign as King and shall prosper, and he shall do what is just and right in the land. In his days Judah shall be delivered and Israel shall dwell secure.”
Is the world at peace? Is Israel secure? No? Hmmm….

7. Can G-d become human?
Numbers 23:19 “ For G-d is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man , that he should repent.
I Samuel 15:29 “And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor relent. For he is not a man that he should relent”.
II Chronicles 6:18 “Does G-d really dwell with man on earth? Even the heavens to their uttermost reaches cannot contain You; how much less is this house that I have built!”



I will have more later, I’m sure this is enough for you to digest at the moment.



[edit on 13-5-2006 by kokoro]

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Jesus was made into the messiah by a bunch of power hungry people that wanted to form a new religion to control the masses.....

Are you sure? What makes you say this?

If you have studied the origins and formation of Christianity then this is quite clear. Jesus was only declared divine after the council of Nicea. His divinity was voted on. Voted on!! If he was truely G-d incarnate I would think there would be no doubt to his divinity but the vote only won by a small margin. Then they proceded to add in some pagan holidays in diguise (ie: easter, Christmas..) just so they could convert the pagans and they would not have to give up thier pagan ceremonies.

Sun,

Why have you not managed to address my question? You agreed with me that the same story for Jesus is the same story for horus and all the other jesus like figures. All these stories pre-dating the christian jesus.

And yet you still delude yourself into thinking the biblical jesus with the same story as the older horus is the messiah?

You must be getting your information of jesus from outside the bible that is a wholly different story then the one portrayed in the bible in order for you to continue with this delusion. What sources are you using that allow you to continue your delusion of jesus being the messiah and yet be in agreement that horus and others much older then jesus share the same basic story as jesus?